The Fine Lines Of Football And Our Season

[Welcome To The Jungle]

We are not as bad as our league position suggests, we are probably treading the finest line in the FL. Firstly we are the draw experts, not one team has more draws. This got me wondering what if one more goal had gone our way in each game (conceded one less or scored one more). If this happened we would be 4th with 21 points with just one loss against P'boro.

In most games we can find one guilt edge chance or defensive howler that has cost us. Fielding vs Bradford, Flint vs Vale, Baldock vs MK Dons missing the sitter. Moloney hitting the bar vs Swindon from no distance at all. Nicky Shorey not cocking up for the goal we conceded vs Shrewsbury.

I have never followed city where we are so finely balanced between a poor team and a good team. This is why I still have faith in SOD, this isn't like Millen, nor DMC, where that extra goal would have meant little as we were often beaten by 2 or more goals. We are so close, added to that the average age of sides put out is almost always under 24. Stick with the boys, stick with SOD, we are building slowly upwards, we will not go down, and by March I wager we are the form team who left it too late for a Play Off push.

We are turning the corner...COYR!!!

[Simon79]

I will not take that bet! Good post.

[Aizoon]

I've warned you before about using logic on OTIB

Of course we're doing much better than last season - we haven't been hammered all season, and it was practically a weekly event under Del. What is needed is patience and that's in very short supply.

[glynriley]

I've warned you before about using logic on OTIB

Of course we're doing much better than last season - we haven't been hammered all season, and it was practically a weekly event under Del. What is needed is patience and that's in very short supply.

Logic or hypotheticals? What about Bradford hitting the post, that would be one point less.

Anyway, Peterborogh hammered us.

But let's not keep harking back, here's to the future.

[Welcome To The Jungle]

Logic or hypotheticals? What about Bradford hitting the post, that would be one point less.

Anyway, Peterborogh hammered us.

But let's not keep harking back, here's to the future.

Indeed, but our own stupid mistakes way outnumber the qualities of our opponents. As for the Posh game, arguably the best side in the league, with one goal a wonder strike and one would never have happened if we weren't chasing the game.

[dezgimed]

Every other team can consider the same analogy so it's a pointless concept.

[glynriley]

Indeed, but our own stupid mistakes way outnumber the qualities of our opponents. As for the Posh game, arguably the best side in the league, with one goal a wonder strike and one would never have happened if we weren't chasing the game.

fair enough, but had they not missed a penalty we could have been chasing the game a lot sooner.

Plus JET's wonder strike salvaged a point v Shrewsbury, so....

[Aizoon]

Every other team can consider the same analogy so it's a pointless concept.

They can, but not with such drastic results. As the OP said, try it on last season's performances and see how little difference it makes.

[NVMal]

I'd like to believe you but the fact remains we are where we are. Of course an extra goal in each game would make a difference but every other team in the league could say the same thing.

We need to start seeing positive results.

[Welcome To The Jungle]

Every other team can consider the same analogy so it's a pointless concept.

I'd like to believe you but the fact remains we are where we are. Of course an extra goal in each game would make a difference but every other team in the league could say the same thing.

We need to start seeing positive results.

But we'd go from almost bottom to almost top. No other team I'd imagine would nearly quadruple their points total with an extra goal a game. Say it was just every other game we got one more goal, that's mid table easily.

[dezgimed]

But we'd go from almost bottom to almost top. No other team I'd imagine would nearly quadruple their points total with an extra goal a game. Say it was just every other game we got one more goal, that's mid table easily.

Every other team would consider there to be unfortunate events etc in each of their games so I expect they'd all adjust their points 10+ as we would.

"Oh if that ball across the box hasn't wriggled through to Baldock we'd have won 1-0" etc etc

[East end Forever]

league table don't lie we are there because we haven't one a league game yet

[Mendip City]

league table don't lie we are there because we haven't one a league game yet

Exactly, this is nonsense.

The arguement is that we are a good team but just concede lots of very poor goals and waste lots of good chances. That could just as easily be used as an argument for the fact we're a very poor team.

The table, 10 games in, is a fair reflection of how "good" we are.

We aren't good and a massive improvement is needed - one listen to SOD after the Wycombe game and you'll know he agrees.

[RedZoneJim]

Exactly, this is nonsense.

The arguement is that we are a good team but just concede lots of very poor goals and waste lots of good chances. That could just as easily be used as an argument for the fact we're a very poor team.

The table, 10 games in, is a fair reflection of how "good" we are.

We aren't good and a massive improvement is needed - one listen to SOD after the Wycombe game and you'll know he agrees.

Or one listen to his interview after Port Vale spins it totally the other way. Given the number of changes to Tuesday's starting team, Port Vale is still the benchmark as to where we are really at as far as I'm concerned. Tuesday was just an unneeded performance and loss that's just served to get the 'Told you so' posse banging their drums even louder with blatant disregard for how good we'd actually been three days before with our current first choice 11. It's easy to say if this or that hadn't happened things would be different but who can account for what Flint did apart from Flint?

[glynriley]

Exactly, this is nonsense.

The arguement is that we are a good team but just concede lots of very poor goals and waste lots of good chances. That could just as easily be used as an argument for the fact we're a very poor team.

The table, 10 games in, is a fair reflection of how "good" we are.

We aren't good and a massive improvement is needed - one listen to SOD after the Wycombe game and you'll know he agrees.

It's usually the point that people start taking notice of the table and generally gives a fair indication of where you'll finish. There are the few odd exceptions of course, but it's usually a decent yardstick, for example

Bottom 6 after 10 games last year.. Final Bottom 6....

Oldham Colchester

Bournemouth Oldham

S****horpe S****horpe

Coventry Bury

Hartlepool Hartlepool

Bury Portsmouth

So 4 of the bottom 6 at this stage last season failed to break clear. Let's hope we can emulate Coventry or maybe even Bournemouth.

[Mendip City]

Or one listen to his interview after Port Vale spins it totally the other way. Given the number of changes to Tuesday's starting team, Port Vale is still the benchmark as to where we are really at as far as I'm concerned. Tuesday was just an unneeded performance and loss that's just served to get the 'Told you so' posse banging their drums even louder with blatant disregard for how good we'd actually been three days before with our current first choice 11. It's easy to say if this or that hadn't happened things would be different but who can account for what Flint did apart from Flint?

Port Vale was nothing more than an average performance. Tons of possession but just one goal. Good teams make sure, get two, three goals ahead then shut up shop. That way one defensive mistake (which can happen to any team or any player) doesn't cost points.

SOD did make a few changes but we played a run of the mill basement team..... not good enough (his thoughts not mine).

Anyway, hopefully, Tuesday was something of a blip. He's got 10 days or so to get an improvement (on the Vale performance). If the next league game is a step backwards he will be bang under pressure.

[Major Isewater]

The glimmer of hope i hold onto is ,bar Pish, we have n't ,as yet ! , been stuffed,even by a good Saints réserve side filled with internationals.

I think it just shows a certain lack of confidence or belief that when we take the lead we are a bit timid to go for the jugular and instead try to hold on to what we've got.

[LondonBristolian]

league table don't lie we are there because we haven't one a league game yet

Nonsense - of course league tables lie at this stage of the season. True enough, come May, once everyone's played everyone else home and away then the league table won't lie but right now lots of teams are in false positions. Whether we are nor not... let's see come May.

But I definitely agree with the OP for what it's worth. Whilst we're in a lower division, I think we've got better players than last season putting in better performances. But, of course, that means nothing unless we get some results.

[East end Forever]

Nonsense - of course league tables lie at this stage of the season. True enough, come May, once everyone's played everyone else home and away then the league table won't lie but right now lots of teams are in false positions. Whether we are nor not... let's see come May.

But I definitely agree with the OP for what it's worth. Whilst we're in a lower division, I think we've got better players than last season putting in better performances. But, of course, that means nothing unless we get some results.

Well I suppose your right and TBH why does it even matter SOD doesn't look at the league table anyway so theres actually no point of this league table is there ?

[RedZoneJim]

Port Vale was nothing more than an average performance. Tons of possession but just one goal. Good teams make sure, get two, three goals ahead then shut up shop. That way one defensive mistake (which can happen to any team or any player) doesn't cost points.

SOD did make a few changes but we played a run of the mill basement team..... not good enough (his thoughts not mine).

Anyway, hopefully, Tuesday was something of a blip. He's got 10 days or so to get an improvement (on the Vale performance). If the next league game is a step backwards he will be bang under pressure.

'Average performance' based on the fact we only got one goal, despite the fact both JET and Baldock hit the woodwork and their keeper pulled off a worldy save from JET just before half-time. We should've been out of sight before half-time and it bit on the arse, that I'll agree with but 'average performance' when we properly looked solid for the first time this season, we looked like we knew what we were doing and there was purpose to our play is just bollocks.

I'm not defending Tuesday at all, it was shite but I'm not losing the plot over what happened Tuesday like some on here because I also saw Port Vale and that was much more encouraging of what SOD's trying to do with our style of play with his first choice players. I'd hope by the end of this season we are so well drilled we do look back as Port Vale as an 'average performance' but right now it was encouraging and certainly more clued up than much of the toothless, clueless dross we were served up last season.

We ain't a good team yet, I'm not claiming that, but we've got the signs of being one if we can consistently pull it altogether.

[Bar BS3]

This OP is exactly what I was looking at after Saturday's full time whistle. No doubt that bar the P'boro game, we have been within touching distance of a far higher points total than we currently have.

Of course, we don't have all those extra points, but I think the point of looking at this scenario is to simply point out that we are certainly not as bad as the current standings might suggest and it kind of offers an answer as to why many (think the majority, really) are still "with" SOD and his quest to change things throughout the club.

It will take time and obviously during this transitional period, it would be preferable to have picked up more points than we have done - BUT, we are not a million miles away from being where many would be satisfied to see us this season and with a slight change of luck, cutting out costly inividual errors and the added confidence that a couple of wins generate, we ARE headed in the right direction, although it is not as smooth as some would like (and I am as frustrated as anyone right now) the process is underway and signs are there, although there is still a long way to go and then keep going to reap the long term benefits of showing a bit of patience and level headedness during this current sticky patch.

If things have not improved come Christmas time, then I don't think even the biggest SOD fan could argue that he can be afforded more time, but I have total faith that by then we will be comfortably in midtable, showing continuing, albeit inconsistent, signs of improvement.

[Aizoon]

I get the impression that some here are watching our games on Teletext, or the modern equivalent thereof. Since that's a very similar experience to Football Manager and FIFA nn, they think they're experts.

Quite simply, if you've not seem the team play, then you've got no idea how good, or indeed bad, they are.

[Mendip City]

'Average performance' based on the fact we only got one goal, despite the fact both JET and Baldock hit the woodwork and their keeper pulled off a worldy save from JET just before half-time. We should've been out of sight before half-time and it bit on the arse, that I'll agree with but 'average performance' when we properly looked solid for the first time this season, we looked like we knew what we were doing and there was purpose to our play is just bollocks.

I'm not defending Tuesday at all, it was shite but I'm not losing the plot over what happened Tuesday like some on here because I also saw Port Vale and that was much more encouraging of what SOD's trying to do with our style of play with his first choice players. I'd hope by the end of this season we are so well drilled we do look back as Port Vale as an 'average performance' but right now it was encouraging and certainly more clued up than much of the toothless, clueless dross we were served up last season.

We ain't a good team yet, I'm not claiming that, but we've got the signs of being one if we can consistently pull it altogether.

Fair enough - we'll disagree and in fairness I'm probably looking more at the outcome of a draw in a game we could/should/might have won. You have a very valid point around the performance, which was dominant. I'm not sure I've much faith in our ability to dominate scorelines anytime soon.

Even after our better performances there are a succession of "should, could, might, if, but, maybe, luck, woodwork, possession" comments none of which score you points or win you games.

I'm genuinely worried, the best teams win when playing badly. We seem to have a nasty habit of not winning whether playing badly, averagely or well!!!

Maybe next week things will change.

[Bar BS3]

Maybe next week things will change.

"Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but soon and for the rest of our lives...! "

I think that this is the quote that many of us are hoping on and I'm still confident that getting those first couple of wins could just make the longer term goals a possibility under SOD.

[bucksred]

leaking too many goals for the OP to be fairly relevant....if we leaked a lot less would eentirely agree, but although not as bad as last season, far from good enough

[Guest]

We are not as bad as our league position suggests, we are probably treading the finest line in the FL. Firstly we are the draw experts, not one team has more draws. This got me wondering what if one more goal had gone our way in each game (conceded one less or scored one more). If this happened we would be 4th with 21 points with just one loss against P'boro.

In most games we can find one guilt edge chance or defensive howler that has cost us. Fielding vs Bradford, Flint vs Vale, Baldock vs MK Dons missing the sitter. Moloney hitting the bar vs Swindon from no distance at all. Nicky Shorey not cocking up for the goal we conceded vs Shrewsbury.

I have never followed city where we are so finely balanced between a poor team and a good team. This is why I still have faith in SOD, this isn't like Millen, nor DMC, where that extra goal would have meant little as we were often beaten by 2 or more goals. We are so close, added to that the average age of sides put out is almost always under 24. Stick with the boys, stick with SOD, we are building slowly upwards, we will not go down, and by March I wager we are the form team who left it too late for a Play Off push.

We are turning the corner...COYR!!!

and, if, but; if one more goal had gone our way what about the other teams in this div ? if one more goal had gone their way? clutching at straws i.m.o.

We were very nearly bottom last week and could well be after this week; the results are the results.

[kit]

Whilst I don't disagree with the fact that we are dealing with fine lines, there are some parallels that can be taken from last season where we turned out to be the worst side in the league.

We didn't get soundly beaten in our first ten games last season either, Blackburn was two injury time goals and Leicester was the only other game where we weren't within a goal of the opposition. In fact it took a long time for the drubbings to start, wolves at home which was in late November or December I believe. At this point last season we had actually won some games soundly.

I can remember thinking last season that we were not that bad as we were not far off in most games, then things got a whole lot worse. I do have faith in SOD to turn this around, but I would say that ten games is long enough to say that it is not just down to being unlucky, we simply haven't been good enough so far. We have to improve upon the performances as a team and individually, saying that we just need to score one more or concede one less is easier said than done and so far this season we haven't been able to do it.

Hopefully the next ten games we will turn these draws into wins, and we can then start to look retrospectively at the first ten games as being unlucky, but at the moment I think we deserve to be where we are on the whole.

[Guest]

Whilst I don't disagree with the fact that we are dealing with fine lines, there are some parallels that can be taken from last season where we turned out to be the worst side in the league.

We didn't get soundly beaten in our first ten games last season either, Blackburn was two injury time goals and Leicester was the only other game where we weren't within a goal of the opposition. In fact it took a long time for the drubbings to start, wolves at home which was in late November or December I believe. At this point last season we had actually won some games soundly.

I can remember thinking last season that we were not that bad as we were not far off in most games, then things got a whole lot worse. I do have faith in SOD to turn this around, but I would say that ten games is long enough to say that it is not just down to being unlucky, we simply haven't been good enough so far. We have to improve upon the performances as a team and individually, saying that we just need to score one more or concede one less is easier said than done and so far this season we haven't been able to do it.

Hopefully the next ten games we will turn these draws into wins, and we can then start to look retrospectively at the first ten games as being unlucky, but at the moment I think we deserve to be where we are on the whole.

We in fact won 3 of our first 10 games, and won 6 before 29/12/12 not good enough and manager shown the door. This year results are immaterial and the manager will still be here this time next year whatever happens, (unless he gets as depressed as a few on here, me included and walks away)