Success In This Or Any Other English League - How The Hell Does It Work?

[southvillekiddy]

Having seen the decline of City since the play-off Final, 

 

and the success of Leyton Orient this season, that's come from nowhere under a Manager that's failed spectacularly in his last 4 jobs

 

is success in professional football in England largely a matter of luck :

 

1. about the particular group of players in a team and 

2. the amount of confidence the Manager is able to instill in them (because unlike other professions it seems as though individual players of average or even high ability cannot find ways to make themselves confident about their job)

 

I can't believe it.

 

We can talk about this or that potential Manager coming to City but the way our Club is run is surely the most important factor. 

 

As an example, I was amazed that Brian Tinnion said recently that he found our scouting for promising local young players was, well .................. useless.

[Aizoon]

Don't ask me, mate. I'm a Bristolian.

[southvillekiddy]

Don't ask me, mate. I'm a Bristolian.

 

Too right. As a fellow Bristolian I know it doesn't help in the "staying positive" sphere of life in contemporary times.

 

We were brilliant pirates and brilliant but distinctly dodgy traders centuries ago and amassed huge fortunes for some Bristolians. We were the second city in England. Forget Birmingham, Newcastle, Manchester and .... ahem ..... Wigan ..... and other places that have Premiership teams. Those places were barely emerging from the swamps and forests.

 

Must be able to be good at running an average sort of Football Club I would have thought.

 

More thoughts please mates .......................

[kachina]

To be fair to Leyton Orient, they have had their current team since January last year and they started to improve at the latter part of the season and if they had matched their performances after xmas in the first half of the season they would have made the playoffs. This season their manager has not signed anyone and stuck with the team who finished last season well and they have continued playing well as a team and are now serious promotion candidates.

[SecretSam]

I think it's something to do with winning games, but I'm no football expert so I can't say that with any confidence...

[St. Aldhelms Red]

Not too sure really. Although all successful teams score lots of goals, which means creating loads of chances. I think its a bit of a myth that teams who play "good football" are the most successful. What does "good football" actually mean? If its this possesion shite that we are playing then you can stick it up yer arse! I want to see goal mouth action, surely the more times the ball is put into the box, the more chances you are going to create.

You only got to look at England , boreing , supposedly possession football for most of the campaign, then when results are needed, suddenly we are playing a high tempo game with lots of balls into the box. Guess what? We actually looked quite exciting then!

Going back to the OP, obviously winning games breeds confidence and vive versa. So we,re ****** basically!

[red panda]

Having seen the decline of City since the play-off Final, 

 

and the success of Leyton Orient this season, that's come from nowhere under a Manager that's failed spectacularly in his last 4 jobs

 

is success in professional football in England largely a matter of luck :

 

1. about the particular group of players in a team and 

2. the amount of confidence the Manager is able to instill in them (because unlike other professions it seems as though individual players of average or even high ability cannot find ways to make themselves confident about their job)

 

I can't believe it.

 

We can talk about this or that potential Manager coming to City but the way our Club is run is surely the most important factor. 

 

As an example, I was amazed that Brian Tinnion said recently that he found our scouting for promising local young players was, well .................. useless.

 

Whatever Russell Slade did before Orient, he is now the 5th longest serving manager in England/Wales.

 

In the time he's been manager there, we've had Millen (caretaker), Coppell, Millen (permanent this time), Wigley (caretaker), McInnes and O'Driscoll.

 

Food for thought ....

[southvillekiddy]

To be fair to Leyton Orient, they have had their current team since January last year and they started to improve at the latter part of the season and if they had matched their performances after xmas in the first half of the season they would have made the playoffs. This season their manager has not signed anyone and stuck with the team who finished last season well and they have continued playing well as a team and are now serious promotion candidates.

 

Okay mate. So you seem to be agreeing that some indefineable process happens in Football that isn't relied on for success in most other areas of life.

[southvillekiddy]

I think it's something to do with winning games, but I'm no football expert so I can't say that with any confidence...

 

that's right mate ........... confidence

[southvillekiddy]

Whatever Russell Slade did before Orient, he is now the 5th longest serving manager in England/Wales.

 

In the time he's been manager there, we've had Millen (caretaker), Coppell, Millen (permanent this time), Wigley (caretaker), McInnes and O'Driscoll.

 

Food for thought ....

 

having checked properly mate but I'm sure that since that since Norwich Slade has had a fair few clubs in recent years.

[southvillekiddy]

To be fair to Leyton Orient, they have had their current team since January last year and they started to improve at the latter part of the season and if they had matched their performances after xmas in the first half of the season they would have made the playoffs. This season their manager has not signed anyone and stuck with the team who finished last season well and they have continued playing well as a team and are now serious promotion candidates.

 

Beg pardon mate. Slade has been at Orient since 5th April 2010. But Orient as a Club have never been above the second tier.

As you say Slade has created a team, when the same players were not operating regularly as a team before.

 

Is that all there is to it? (And I'm not being sarcy by the way).Football is a team game, why does it seem so hard to get players acting as a team?

[kachina]

I'm not saying that. He simply built his squad together and from January last year he was comfortable with it, but it's taken from 2010 to Jan 2013 for him to get that squad together. The club have stayed behind him and given him the time but since January he has stuck with pretty much the same team injuries permitted and he was happy with how that tea finished last season to not try and bring in anyone in the summer. It's taken him 3 years to get this team together and now the patience is bringing about results. The only difference to him and us is that during the period prior to success the club have remained stable and not really looked like relegation outfits which is why he's been given the time and at the same time has not lost his job.

 

Our club is trying to go along the same route but sadly instead of steadying the ship for a couple of years as a mid table team whilst it happens, we look set for back to back relegation's and we seem to go through a hell of a lot of players and staff, rather then bringing in 2-3 long term quality players and building a team around them.

[red panda]

having checked properly mate but I'm sure that since that since Norwich Slade has had a fair few clubs in recent years.

 

Sorry - don't understand.  Any chance of a translation?

 

All I said was that Slade was the 5th longest serving manager in England/Wales, and listed all the managers we have had in the same time

[southvillekiddy]

Sorry - don't understand.  Any chance of a translation?

 

All I said was that Slade was the 5th longest serving manager in England/Wales, and listed all the managers we have had in the same time

 

Apologies mate, a few typos there plus I already apologised to the wrong bloke. Please see above

 

But the fact remains. What is substantially different in the way that Slade is operating at Orient in achieving success when he didn't do it at norwich and brighton and a few other clubs before.

 

My main point is there doesn't seem to be a true rationale to success and the reason may be that Clubs are generally badly run compared to other types of businesses.

[red panda]

Apologies mate, a few typos there plus I already apologised to the wrong bloke. Please see above

 

But the fact remains. What is substantially different in the way that Slade is operating at Orient in achieving success when he didn't do it at norwich and brighton and a few other clubs before.

 

My main point is there doesn't seem to be a true rationale to success and the reason may be that Clubs are generally badly run compared to other types of businesses.

 

Even more confused - this doesn't relate to anything I said, so why reply to me?

 

Over and out

[CityCiderEd]

Slade has never managed Norwich.

[cheese]

Slade has never managed Norwich.

 

They never even managed a decent tune.

[dezgimed]

Slade did ok at Yeovil didnt he, we had a real grudge match with them one season when we went up didnt we? They were close to/in playoffs.