Profile Of The Modern, Successful Manager

[fka dagest]

How can we characterise the successful managers of the modern game?  If we can come up with a rough profile can we apply it to any candidates?  Will it help us appoint the right candidate?

 

who are the successful managers?

 

Brandan Rogers?  Gary Johnson (fishing...)?  Uwe Rosler?  Nigel Adkins?  Malky MacKay?  Paul Lambert?  Paolo Di Canio? Gus Poyet?  Who else?

 

Are there any character traits shared by this small select example?  How important is age and experience?  I don't mean experience, just in the sense of length of playing career, but where they played.

 

In my mind (and I appreciate we've already tried a few types) I'd be going for someone who played at a high level in more than one country and who has played under some great influences.  Obviously personality, drive and passion (in my opinion) are important, but so is nous and an understanding of the modern game.

 

In short, I'd go for a foreign (not exclusively) manager, who has played a great deal in the Premiership, under experienced managers and is aware of different modern football styles.  

 

I'm thinking of Gus Poyet clone or something similar.  There must be old pros who fit the profile and who'd like a stab at management.

 

What if Paul Scholes wanted a go at management, would you entertain it?

 

What does anyone else think?

 

 

[Mr Mosquito]

How can we characterise the successful managers of the modern game?  If we can come up with a rough profile can we apply it to any candidates?  Will it help us appoint the right candidate?

 

who are the successful managers?

 

Brandan Rogers?  Gary Johnson (fishing...)?  Uwe Rosler?  Nigel Adkins?  Malky MacKay?  Paul Lambert?  Paolo Di Canio? Gus Poyet?  Who else?

 

Are there any character traits shared by this small select example?  How important is age and experience?  I don't mean experience, just in the sense of length of playing career, but where they played.

 

In my mind (and I appreciate we've already tried a few types) I'd be going for someone who played at a high level in more than one country and who has played under some great influences.  Obviously personality, drive and passion (in my opinion) are important, but so is nous and an understanding of the modern game.

 

In short, I'd go for a foreign (not exclusively) manager, who has played a great deal in the Premier League, under experienced managers and is aware of different modern football styles.  

 

I'm thinking of Gus Poyet clone or something similar.  There must be old pros who fit the profile and who'd like a stab at management.

 

What if Paul Scholes wanted a go at management, would you entertain it?

 

What does anyone else think?

 

...Paolo di Canio has also played at the highest level in different countries. Then there's Jose Mourinho - I'm not sure he actually played at any significant level anywhere. David Moyes - played for us - say no more.

 

I can't see either Gus Poyet or Paolo di Canio wanting to come here unfortunately.

[JET will tear you apart]

Free flowing attacking football scoring lots of goals connection with fans e.g gj says bounce around ground good character good experience

[sodburyred]

Not entirely relevant but I was thinking of SOD's ethos of passing and possesion and all that, and it got me thinking that in a way SOD's methods are out of touch. Go back 10 even 5 years ago and any form of passing football in the football league's was rare and highly praised ie SOD at Bournmouth and Donny, Johnson at Yeovil and City. Now fast forward to where we are now. How many teams don't play passing football? everygame I've seen this season the other team have been passing and moving. Haven't seen any teams this season resembelling Pulis's Stoke.

I think this is where SOD went wrong. Possesion passing football has become the norm, its the extra plans that make the difference. Wingers or false wingers as they are now, Driving midfielders, long balls in the channels, etc. Things and players like that, that change games. SODs stubornness to believe that we could just pass the other team to death IMO ultimately cost him. 5 years ago those tactics worked but not anymore.

This is why managers like Poyet have done well they have taken SODS approach and adapted it for the now.

[chinapig]

Not entirely relevant but I was thinking of SOD's ethos of passing and possesion and all that, and it got me thinking that in a way SOD's methods are out of touch. Go back 10 even 5 years ago and any form of passing football in the football league's was rare and highly praised ie SOD at Bournmouth and Donny, Johnson at Yeovil and City. Now fast forward to where we are now. How many teams don't play passing football? everygame I've seen this season the other team have been passing and moving. Haven't seen any teams this season resembelling Pulis's Stoke.

I think this is where SOD went wrong. Possesion passing football has become the norm, its the extra plans that make the difference. Wingers or false wingers as they are now, Driving midfielders, long balls in the channels, etc. Things and players like that, that change games. SODs stubornness to believe that we could just pass the other team to death IMO ultimately cost him. 5 years ago those tactics worked but not anymore.

This is why managers like Poyet have done well they have taken SODS approach and adapted it for the now.

Interesting thoughts, thanks. The so called passing game is not about keeping possession for the sake of it so you can point to the stats after the game. A big feature of the modern game is the emphasis on getting the ball off the opposition by constantly pressing them in their own half. Under Guardiola Barca had a "rule" that if they lost possession they had to get it back within 7 seconds. It was not literal but it focused them on working hard to harass their opponents, from Messi back. You see variations on the same theme from Bayern Munich and Dortmund, though the latter focus also on running at the opposition at pace. The great Liverpool sides of the past played at high tempo and pinged the ball around with accuracy. The best example in this country now is Southampton, whose forwards and midfielders work ferociously hard at pressing. When such sides get the ball they pass and move quickly, they don't pass it slowly backwards and sideways while everybody else stands still.

 

Apart from technique this approach requires a high level of fitness, something English clubs liked to think was their advantage over more skillful opponents. Not any more and I was a bit worried by SOD's virtual dismissal of the importance of fitness and wonder if it has played a part in conceding late goals.

[sodburyred]

Interesting thoughts, thanks. The so called passing game is not about keeping possession for the sake of it so you can point to the stats after the game. A big feature of the modern game is the emphasis on getting the ball off the opposition by constantly pressing them in their own half. Under Guardiola Barca had a "rule" that if they lost possession they had to get it back within 7 seconds. It was not literal but it focused them on working hard to harass their opponents, from Messi back. You see variations on the same theme from Bayern Munich and Dortmund, though the latter focus also on running at the opposition at pace. The great Liverpool sides of the past played at high tempo and pinged the ball around with accuracy. The best example in this country now is Southampton, whose forwards and midfielders work ferociously hard at pressing. When such sides get the ball they pass and move quickly, they don't pass it slowly backwards and sideways while everybody else stands still.

 

Apart from technique this approach requires a high level of fitness, something English clubs liked to think was their advantage over more skillful opponents. Not any more and I was a bit worried by SOD's virtual dismissal of the importance of fitness and wonder if it has played a part in conceding late goals.

 

Completely agree. All season we've lacked that extra something whether it be fitness, pace, counter attack or long passing, and his stuborness to realise that has lead to his downfall. Being comfortable in possesion is not going to win you games. That extra something will.

[EDoubleD]

I think you can have lots of different types of successful manager. Guardiola, fergie, mouriniho, wenger are all very different and play different football.

Think the key is ruling out managers based on circumstances rather that clubs. Di canio for example. People rate him, but for what? He took Swindon out of league two with a budget bigger than anyone else and nearly bankrupted the club. Poyet couldn't get Brighton promoted even with a decent sized budget. Neither have done enough for me to class them as good.

People like Mackay, dyche, billy davies, Martinez. All performed consistently and on tight budgets. That shows a good manager.

[bcfcnick]

How can we characterise the successful managers of the modern game?  If we can come up with a rough profile can we apply it to any candidates?  Will it help us appoint the right candidate?

 

who are the successful managers?

 

Brandan Rogers?  Gary Johnson (fishing...)?  Uwe Rosler?  Nigel Adkins?  Malky MacKay?  Paul Lambert?  Paolo Di Canio? Gus Poyet?  Who else?

 

 

What if Paul Scholes wanted a go at management, would you entertain it?

 

 

I think all of the successful managers have am intensity about then and an extreme competitive edge to them.   They are also generally very good communicators and, despite his limited English, I'd include Di cannio as he conveys what he wants to in his own inimitable way.  Scholes was one of the most talented players of his generation but communication wasn't and isn't his strong point.  

 

The best players don't usually make the best coaches.  I'm not saying Scholes wouldn't succeed as the likes of Bob Paisley and Joe Fagan at Liverpool didn't strike me as charismatic communicators, but maybe Liverpool's success was down to a management boot room team combination rather than just one man.

 

I recollect SOD praising Lee Johnson when Oldham came down.  He has got his team playing more of a pressing game than we do and certainly has the passion but channelled in a more modern way than his father. I'm increasingly coming to think he would be the perfect fit for the Club.

[marksy]

Steve Coppell had all the credentials. The thing is, was he a cop-out or did he smell a turd ?