Cotterill Yesterday

[Tom Fleuriot]

Just want to make a few comments about Cotterill's performance yesterday.

First half, he got badly, badly wrong.

He picked the wrong players in central midfield. As we were walking into the ground we were saying that Elliott and Gillett in the same team was about as defensive as you could be, but wouldn't work because they'd get in each other's way or not be sure about their role. I think this explains a lot of early Rotherham dominance - Marv and SG seemed completely lost.

Also, he gave the team poor instructions. There were two things that happened yesterday that did not happen under O'Driscoll. First, we seemed to want to hit it into the channels a lot as a speculative punt. People booed Flint for punting it long but this happened so often that I can only conclude it was on instructions. Second, the passes never seemed on. It looked to me like SC had instructed players to get further up the pitch when we win the ball, meaning that a lot of the time there was no option available.

Indeed, generally I'm surprised people are blaming the players. The first half looked like a team that didn't understand what was expected of them.

Second half, I thought the Shorey substitution was odd, but it seemed to work. The last thirty minutes we were all over them. The players also seemed to have a better understanding of what they were doing, and were a bit more intelligent in particular about being in the right places to pick up the headers from their defence.

All in all, first half left me depressed and thinking "dear God. 3.5 year contract" - it was easy to see that our failings were a direct result of atrocious manager decisions. Second half was one of our better thirty-minute performances, and if we play like that every week then I'll be a happy fan.

I'd have thought about twenty games will tell me which half reflects the real Steve Cotterill.

[Guest Swindon8er]

You're surprised we're blaming the players? we're bottom of League One in mid December mate..

[Guest Robiness]

And I just heard that he decided not to watch any previous games on DVD ,bizarre ,.

[Kid in the Riot]

The players looked dejected throughout. They looked like they'd just lost a manager who they trusted in and he'd been replaced with a buffoon who is now going to rip it up and start again.

Everything they'd been working on this season now counts for nothing and we're back to square one as Cotterill will look to change things and rebuild by bringing players in in January. More uncertainty for the players.

I also noted that SC was very quiet in the first half just stood there making notes, so maybe he's not even the pointy shouty manager some thought we were getting. Though he did pipe up second half spending most of it pointing towards the Atyeo goal.

Under SOD I honestly thought we wouldn't get relegated but under this guy I think there's a good chance we'll go down. The next 3 games are big, we have to be looking at 7 points.

[Bowie]

Different Manager.

Same mistakes in the team selection.

Intresting that he's said in a interview that he hasn't watch the tapes of previous games this season.....if he did he'd have known that yesterday's line up was a mistake before he even picked it

[Tom Fleuriot]

You're surprised we're blaming the players? we're bottom of League One in mid December mate..

But I'm talking about one match and whether the players are too blame for yesterday's atrocious first half performance.

Incidentally, unlike last season, I don't think that we're bottom this season because of the players' attitudes.

[Keep Calm]

Nice to see a considered view on the game.

 

I largely agree with what you saw.  Given that the first half was SC's first 45 minutes of league football with the players, the team can't be expected to do particularly well, especially against a decent Rotherham side.  And without meaning to be rude to the players, I suspect League 1 players will take time to adapt to a new system.

What was interesting for me was that when SC had a chance to sit down with the players at half time, we improved and were much stronger in the second half.  This is a positive sign for me, and like the OP says, the second half performance was much improved.  Admittedly Rotherham were already 2-0 up so weren't pushing that hard, but I'm going to look at it from a positive perspective.

But now I'm in a pickle.  I decided at half time that I wouldn't be going to Notts Co. on Saturday.  But the end of the second half showed enough promise to make me think again...  

 

Just hope SC noticed the difference Reid and Burns made when they came on.  I'm not sure Burns is ready for a start, but Reid has to start Saturday for me.

[Guest Cap flinger]

The players looked dejected throughout. They looked like they'd just lost a manager who they trusted in and he'd been replaced with a buffoon who is now going to rip it up and start again.

Everything they'd been working on this season now counts for nothing and we're back to square one as Cotterill will look to change things and rebuild by bringing players in in January. More uncertainty for the players.

I also noted that SC was very quiet in the first half just stood there making notes, so maybe he's not even the pointy shouty manager some thought we were getting. Though he did pipe up second half spending most of it pointing towards the Atyeo goal.

Under SOD I honestly thought we wouldn't get relegated but under this guy I think there's a good chance we'll go down. The next 3 games are big, we have to be looking at 7 points.

its SOD that will get us relegated not SC

[Kid in the Riot]

its SOD that will get us relegated not SC

Well, it's not is it?

But anyway if you think SOD will be responsible and I think SC will be then I think we should both agree that in fact the guilty party is the board for appointing these men, yes?

[Guest Cap flinger]

Well, it's not is it?

But anyway if you think SOD will be responsible and I think SC will be then I think we should both agree that in fact the guilty party is the board for appointing these men, yes?

SC won't start being the manager until this season has finished and he has shipped out all the SOD deadwood. Thought that's how it works, isn't it?

[Tom Fleuriot]

Nice to see a considered view on the game.

I largely agree with what you saw. Given that the first half was SC's first 45 minutes of league football with the players, the team can't be expected to do particularly well, especially against a decent Rotherham side. And without meaning to be rude to the players, I suspect League 1 players will take time to adapt to a new system.

What was interesting for me was that when SC had a chance to sit down with the players at half time, we improved and were much stronger in the second half. This is a positive sign for me, and like the OP says, the second half performance was much improved. Admittedly Rotherham were already 2-0 up so weren't pushing that hard, but I'm going to look at it from a positive perspective.

But now I'm in a pickle. I decided at half time that I wouldn't be going to Notts Co. on Saturday. But the end of the second half showed enough promise to make me think again...

Just hope SC noticed the difference Reid and Burns made when they came on. I'm not sure Burns is ready for a start, but Reid has to start Saturday for me.

I'm not sure I'd entirely agree that it was players adapting though. I think the instructions and setup changed second half. Gillett sat deeper, which made a pass available more often. The players changed their likelihood of hitting it long as well. I guess it may have been clarifications at half time, but looked more to me like a clear change.

[exAtyeoMax]

[hippy273]

[Tom Fleuriot]

Different Manager.

Same mistakes in the team selection.

Intresting that he's said in a interview that he hasn't watch the tapes of previous games this season.....if he did he'd have known that yesterday's line up was a mistake before he even picked it

Quite. I'd like to think that I would have watched all our matches, worked out what each player is doing well, what they're doing poorly, and try to maximise the former. But then I'm not a manager.

[Keep Calm]

I'm not sure I'd entirely agree that it was players adapting though. I think the instructions and setup changed second half. Gillett sat deeper, which made a pass available more often. The players changed their likelihood of hitting it long as well. I guess it may have been clarifications at half time, but looked more to me like a clear change.

 

Yeh, this is what I meant.  I'd like to think it was SC seeing the problems and making the required adjustments.  Reacting to the opposition and our players to get the best from them.

I noticed he was taking a lot of notes in the first half.  I think it's a decent enough start.  I'm ignoring the Tamworth game really, he didn't have much time with the team, it was strange opposition and a dodgy pitch.  So I reckon yesterday was his first real game and I think he did okay.  He reacted to the issues and improved the performance.

[Major Isewater]

So First we sack a manager who does n't look at the table and then employ one who does n't look at the team's performances ...

It's like see no evil,hear no evil and speak no evil.

Those bloody monkeys are back !

[Major Isewater]

its SOD that will get us relegated not SC

It won't be either SOD nor SC. but the bored of distructers who are to blame for the shambles of these last years .

[Guest Redrobbin]

its SOD that will get us relegated not SC

In that case when they sacked SOD they should of appointed coco the clown until the right man at the right price came along. After all we are already down because of SOD.

[cityshippers]

to be fair, we were playing the long ball from Flint a long time before SC arrived, I didn't see any more long wide balls yesterday than in the previous home games

the trouble at times yesterday seemed to me, when we tried to play we just weren't good enough on the ball, especially in first half.

to many poor touches and miss control.

Better second half some decent pressure, its going to be a long tough second half to the season

I also think we need two men up front

[hippy273]

Was anyone aware that Cotterill and SOD played in the same side together at Bournemouth? I had no idea until the other day 

[Rich_s]

Just want to make a few comments about Cotterill's performance yesterday.

First half, he got badly, badly wrong.

He picked the wrong players in central midfield. As we were walking into the ground we were saying that Elliott and Gillett in the same team was about as defensive as you could be, but wouldn't work because they'd get in each other's way or not be sure about their role. I think this explains a lot of early Rotherham dominance - Marv and SG seemed completely lost.

Also, he gave the team poor instructions. There were two things that happened yesterday that did not happen under O'Driscoll. First, we seemed to want to hit it into the channels a lot as a speculative punt. People booed Flint for punting it long but this happened so often that I can only conclude it was on instructions. Second, the passes never seemed on. It looked to me like SC had instructed players to get further up the pitch when we win the ball, meaning that a lot of the time there was no option available.

Indeed, generally I'm surprised people are blaming the players. The first half looked like a team that didn't understand what was expected of them.

Second half, I thought the Shorey substitution was odd, but it seemed to work. The last thirty minutes we were all over them. The players also seemed to have a better understanding of what they were doing, and were a bit more intelligent in particular about being in the right places to pick up the headers from their defence.

All in all, first half left me depressed and thinking "dear God. 3.5 year contract" - it was easy to see that our failings were a direct result of atrocious manager decisions. Second half was one of our better thirty-minute performances, and if we play like that every week then I'll be a happy fan.

I'd have thought about twenty games will tell me which half reflects the real Steve Cotterill.

The game was almost a carbon copy of the Leyton Orient game, excluding the result of course.

[Guest Timbo7]

Positives 

• I did notice that there was some significant waiving around of arms from the manager in the second half 

 

Negatives

• certainly no improvement in team performance

 

Not sure

• unable to tell from the Atyeo whether the arm waiving was accompanied by sufficiently loud shouting, swearing, passion etc. - perhaps someone close could advise? 

[Tom Fleuriot]

to be fair, we were playing the long ball from Flint a long time before SC arrived, I didn't see any more long wide balls yesterday than in the previous home games

the trouble at times yesterday seemed to me, when we tried to play we just weren't good enough on the ball, especially in first half.

to many poor touches and miss control.

Better second half some decent pressure, its going to be a long tough second half to the season

I also think we need two men up front

It felt to me that there was a substantially higher proportion of long balls into the channels. Our kick off routine, for example, was identical every time and was not how we have kicked off this season.

[Red-Robbo]

Just want to make a few comments about Cotterill's performance yesterday.

First half, he got badly, badly wrong.

He picked the wrong players in central midfield. As we were walking into the ground we were saying that Elliott and Gillett in the same team was about as defensive as you could be, but wouldn't work because they'd get in each other's way or not be sure about their role. I think this explains a lot of early Rotherham dominance - Marv and SG seemed completely lost.

Also, he gave the team poor instructions. There were two things that happened yesterday that did not happen under O'Driscoll. First, we seemed to want to hit it into the channels a lot as a speculative punt. People booed Flint for punting it long but this happened so often that I can only conclude it was on instructions. Second, the passes never seemed on. It looked to me like SC had instructed players to get further up the pitch when we win the ball, meaning that a lot of the time there was no option available.

Indeed, generally I'm surprised people are blaming the players. The first half looked like a team that didn't understand what was expected of them. .

Have to disagree Tom. The aimless punts and lack of midfield looking to receive passes was EXACTLY what we saw under SOD. In fact the first half we were virtually a carbon copy of an O'Driscoll formation. Only difference was that the punts from Flint were rapid rather than after 5 minutes of tippy-tap between the back 4. Even the Shorey as LM was a Sean idea.

The improvement we saw was Cotterill ditched his plan A within the hour; under Sean we'd have been labouring under it for 80 minutes.

[Jordan Tansley]

Different Manager.

Same mistakes in the team selection.

Intresting that he's said in a interview that he hasn't watch the tapes of previous games this season.....if he did he'd have known that yesterday's line up was a mistake before he even picked it

 

That comment is one that will end up being a source of ridicule for Cotterill if he's not careful.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Have to disagree Tom. The aimless punts and lack of midfield looking to receive passes was EXACTLY what we saw under SOD. In fact the first half we were virtually a carbon copy of an O'Driscoll formation. Only difference was that the punts from Flint were rapid rather than after 5 minutes of tippy-tap between the back 4. Even the Shorey as LM was a Sean idea.

The improvement we saw was Cotterill ditched his plan A within the hour; under Sean we'd have been labouring under it for 80 minutes.

 

Listening to his interview, it seemed to me that from the players perspective it was the same old/same old, they spent all week being coached and spoken to about what was expected and as soon as the whistle blew, they just played their own game, it took the half time team talk to provoke any response. SC alluded to it as did SOD on more than one occasion.

 

 

[havanatopia]

its SOD that will get us relegated not SC

 

I can see clearly now the rain has gone... who sang that? Carly Simon?.. anyway.. we've heard that one a few times before heh?

 

McInnes is blamed for SO'D taking us down, SO'D is blamed for Hoof taking us down so when he is inevitably sacked next season when we are languishing in or arounds 89th place of the Football League it'll be Cotts' fault when we fall through the trap door into the conference with Billy Davies in charge. For as sure as night follows day we will be following the Florist managerial trail yet again in the coming months.

 

Alice Through the Looking Glass it isn't so lets hope it is not the diametric opposite of something nice... and something nice would be? answers on a postcard to BBC Television Centre, Broadcasting House, London. W1A 4AA

[Fiale]

SC won't start being the manager until this season has finished and he has shipped out all the SOD deadwood. Thought that's how it works, isn't it?

So SOD doesn't get us relegated last season after all... Funny old world.

[Guest cider_dog]

its SOD that will get us relegated not SC

Really?

 

What if we get promoted then - are you going to give SOD credit for that?

 

SC holds the club's survival in his hands I'm afraid.

 

And that fact alone makes me very nervous indeed...

[Major Isewater]

That comment is one that will end up being a source of ridicule for Cotterill if he's not careful.

Too late !

[Major Isewater]

I can see clearly now the rain has gone... who sang that? Carly Simon?.. anyway.. we've heard that one a few times before heh?

McInnes is blamed for SO'D taking us down, SO'D is blamed for Hoof taking us down so when he is inevitably sacked next season when we are languishing in or arounds 89th place of the Football League it'll be Cotts' fault when we fall through the trap door into the conference with Billy Davies in charge. For as sure as night follows day we will be following the Florist managerial trail yet again in the coming months.

Alice Through the Looking Glass it isn't so lets hope it is not the diametric opposite of something nice... and something nice would be? answers on a postcard to BBC Television Centre, Broadcasting House, London. W1A 4AA

Labi Siffre now you can see clearly

[Red-Robbo]

Listening to his interview, it seemed to me that from the players perspective it was the same old/same old, they spent all week being coached and spoken to about what was expected and as soon as the whistle blew, they just played their own game, it took the half time team talk to provoke any response. SC alluded to it as did SOD on more than one occasion.

Certainly looked that way EMB. SC said on Radio Brizzle that Marv would be in front of the defence providing some physical presence and Gillet would be further up linking with the attack.

Why they came out vice versa Gawd knows. Gillet was a chocolate teapot in the Liam Kelly role and Marv is many things, but a midfield distributor he is not.

[glynriley]

Labi Siffre now you can see clearly

 

Johnny Nash.

[Major Isewater]

Johnny Nash.

Now you see clearer !

[Jordan Tansley]

Certainly looked that way EMB. SC said on Radio Brizzle that Marv would be in front of the defence providing some physical presence and Gillet would be further up linking with the attack.

Why they came out vice versa Gawd knows. Gillet was a chocolate teapot in the Liam Kelly role and Marv is many things, but a midfield distributor he is not.

 

Would it not be SC's job to tell them from the touchline? to fix it as the game was going on?

[Red-Robbo]

Would it not be SC's job to tell them from the touchline? to fix it as the game was going on?

Yep baffled by that, JT. I can't say I was thrilled yesterday, but let's give him the same period of grace (most of us) extended to SOD

[Jordan Tansley]

Yep baffled by that, JT. I can't say I was thrilled yesterday, but let's give him the same period of grace (most of us) extended to SOD

 

I am, I just saw an awful lot of concerning incidents and I already don't rate the guy from before he was here.

 

It's tough, I want him to succeed, course I do. I just don't truly believe he will. Which really does suck as I have always found it relatively easy to be positive about BCFC.

[Guest Rovers-ran-away]

It's like fans are dieing for sc to fail

[TRL]

It's like fans are dieing for sc to fail

I think it is more the fact the fans want to see some real shape an purpose from managerial appointments, rather stumbling from one manager to another.

Coppell appointed, told millen needs more time, not experienced enough. 3 months later he is ready and was someone the board had in mind long term. Millen Sacked.

McInnes appointed, we are told McInnes is someone we have been aware of for some times, but they didn't think he was ready at the time. Mcinnes sacked.

SO'D appointed, we are told he is someone we have been aware for for some time and was close when Mcinnes was appointed. SO'D sacked.

Cotterill appointed, see where this is going? We are told this is someone we have been aware of for some time yadda yadda.

So this board would seem to go for the best option then appoint the 2nd best option later down the road. So it is of no surprise the fans have little faith in the boards choice of manager

[GrahamC]

I was baffled by him picking Baldock and JET as his front two after last week and his central midfield partnership, which whilst logical if we were trying to make us harder to beat, contained 2 players who seemed unsure as to what their role was.

Still he deserves far more than 1 league game to form an option on and at least he showed more faith in young Burns than SOD did.

[beaverface]

Couple of obvious things I noticed during the match, maybe a sign of things to come, who knows?

 

Anyway, a few times we just hit the channels without even looking, which indicates to me that SC wants the strikers to be running them - with JET in the team, that just isn't going to happen - so I'd expect a striker to be quite high on SC's shopping list.

 

The second thing I noticed, and I'm not sure if this is good or bad, but when Parish was about to take a goal kick, the entire team spread as far as they could throughout the pitch. Over the last few seasons I've became used to seeing both teams huddled with the centre circle or thereabouts.

 

That's it! That's my observations :-)

[REDOXO]

Different Manager.

Same mistakes in the team selection.

Intresting that he's said in a interview that he hasn't watch the tapes of previous games this season.....if he did he'd have known that yesterday's line up was a mistake before he even picked it

Yes....I was amazed Taylor didn't start against his former club! JET revelled in being the head of the diamond (OK yes it was Tamworth), but bugger it....Lets go back to certain failure as opposed to a change....As some one said the definition of madness is trying the same thing time and again expecting a different result!!

 

When is Kelly back anyone know?

[Red-Robbo]

Another plus point, was he'd stopped SOD's baffling practice of having Harewood AND Taylor on the bench.

For me, there were small positives and if we'd got a second goal no-one would've said we weren't good for at least a point.

The first half was dire though. But I'm getting used to that at AG this season.

[hortonred]

Well, it's not is it?

But anyway if you think SOD will be responsible and I think SC will be then I think we should both agree that in fact the guilty party is the board for appointing these men, yes?

Difference is SOD had 18 months SC has had two games.Oh and we were'nt 22nd in league 1 when SOD took over.

[Aizoon]

its SOD that will get us relegated not SC

Getting your excuses for SC in early?

[Mad Cyril]

There is a big assumption in the original post that the players are religiously following the managers instructions, and also have the ability and technique to do so after just a couple of weeks of training.

 

As many of us have observed including SC, the team move themselves and the ball round at a much too slow pace - will the manager saying that mean the players will be able to change what they do come next Saturday?

 

I dont think even Coco the Clown would have instructed the team to play as badly as they did in the first half even with a raging wind in their face.

[Dorset_Cider]

Quite. I'd like to think that I would have watched all our matches, worked out what each player is doing well, what they're doing poorly, and try to maximise the former. But then I'm not a manager.

 

Ever thought about applying?

[redsquirrel]

Different Manager.

Same mistakes in the team selection.

Intresting that he's said in a interview that he hasn't watch the tapes of previous games this season.....if he did he'd have known that yesterday's line up was a mistake before he even picked it

 

i heard he tried but buggered his stylus when he played them on 45

 

(joke)

[Mad Cyril]

Why would anyone want to watch those tapes.

 

Besides, rumour is they got posted to a special interrogation unit at Guantanimo Bay....

[Forza Revolution]

So sod didn't get us relegated from the champ it was mciness and now it's not Cotterill who gets us relegated from lge 1 its SOD

[You Do The Dziekanowski]

So sod didn't get us relegated from the champ it was mciness and now it's not Cotterill who gets us relegated from lge 1 its SOD

It was much simpler when it was all Lee Johnsons fault

[Aizoon]

Why are people writing him off after 1 league match???

He's not even been with us two weeks! He has months of crap to unwind. It can't happen with a click of the fingers?

 

And I'm sure has has those months of crap in him.

[Fishponds_Red]

SC won't start being the manager until this season has finished and he has shipped out all the SOD deadwood. Thought that's how it works, isn't it?

Deadwood being... Williams? JET? Pack?

[Tom Fleuriot]

There is a big assumption in the original post that the players are religiously following the managers instructions, and also have the ability and technique to do so after just a couple of weeks of training.

 

As many of us have observed including SC, the team move themselves and the ball round at a much too slow pace - will the manager saying that mean the players will be able to change what they do come next Saturday?

 

I dont think even Coco the Clown would have instructed the team to play as badly as they did in the first half even with a raging wind in their face.

I'm not sure how it could be a big assumption, when there was a marked difference in certain behaviours.  The point is that the poor way they were moving the ball around on Saturday was not the same as the poor way they were moving it around under O'Driscoll.  They weren't offering as many backwards options.  Felt to me they were hitting it long into the channels far more often than usual.  Their kick-off routine was completely different.  What could have caused that, other than the manager?  It may be the players not understanding his instructions, but it was clearly a different set of player behaviours, which can't be completely random.

 

I'm not trying to knock SC incidentally - like any manager he needs support and I thought he corrected his mistakes for the second half.

[MATT BCFC]

I was dissapointed he didnt start with the same team and formation he used against Tamworth.

 

Early days some are being very harsh. First league game and it was against one of the better teams in the league. Some easier (on paper anyway) games coming up. Lets see how we do against them.

[fka dagest]

Real Positive arent you Aizoon?  Have you been watching Kelly's Heroes again?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xyh-JpWdGmQ

 

 

He's still desperately upset he's lost his Sean.  He's expressing his pain by undermining our new manager at every turn.

[Guest Mr Wendall]

Had we gone with the diamond we'd have been even more over run in the midfield. It's not an option at the moment in the league

[Aizoon]

He's still desperately upset he's lost his Sean. He's expressing his pain by undermining our new manager at every turn.

Oh do grow up! In three month's time you'll be giving Cotterill the same dog's abuse you gave O'Driscoll. Replacing SOD with SC in mid-season is just as idiotic as the reverse would have been. It means totally retraining the players in a different style of play while staring into the abyss.

Or are we going to buy a whole new team to play in SC's style? And where are we going to get the money, given the financial restrictions?

Sorry, I'm asking you serious questions. Waste of effort, really. Your strong suit is childish abuse, isn't it?

[Mr Mosquito]