The Humble Realist Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 First of all, good to see the club leading the way...however dissapointing to see some fans slag off Liverpool fans in regards to Hillsborough with personal insults rather than debate the issue in hand I.e. safe standing and its merits I'm personally for safe standing but have a question and apologies if its already been asked but why can't we use the standing rails now as a small trial seeming as we are in league one ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazinpeace Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 I think once you have gone all seater you can't go back as it stands (no pun intended) at the moment. Could be wrong though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Humble Realist Posted February 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 That would make sense although is that a law or football league guideline/rule ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazinpeace Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 Not sure - probably law though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
You Do The Dziekanowski Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 One thing I hate about the Hillsborough families and there view on safe standing is that they turn a blind eye to the thousands that stand in the Kop now! Surely it will be safer if they have SAFE standing in place Yes they have their view on it and I'm sure I would have the same stance of not wanting it back. But I would at least admit that the model is safe and stops what happened at Hillsborough happening again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambridge Batch Red Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 They are just a very small pressure group the media turn to everytime this issue comes up. Lazy journalists looking for a quick quote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swampy Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 Rugby fans can both stand and drink pints of beer whilst watching the game. Why is that?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS34Red Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 One thing I hate about the Hillsborough families and there view on safe standing is that they turn a blind eye to the thousands that stand in the Kop now! Surely it will be safer if they have SAFE standing in place Yes they have their view on it and I'm sure I would have the same stance of not wanting it back. But I would at least admit that the model is safe and stops what happened at Hillsborough happening againStanding in seated areas is possibly another Hillsborough waiting to happen, a few things need to go wrong at the same time but it is possible. I don't want to cause any offence but I though the police are to blame? Now it looks like standing is being blamed. Can I put an interesting question out there, had the end been seated instead of terrace but everything else remained the same such as the poor crowd control and poor policing would the outcome have been any different? Then that gives me another question, what if the end at Hillsborough had been safe standing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC&T Board Members Blagdon red Posted February 15, 2014 SC&T Board Members Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 That would make sense although is that a law or football league guideline/rule ? It's the law. Daft isn't it. Look at Luton in the Conference (tier 5) and Stockport in the Conference North (tier 6): they both have to keep their grounds all-seater because they committed the heinous crime 10+ years ago of playing in tier 2 for three years. Go figure, as our American cousins might say! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
You Do The Dziekanowski Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 Standing in seated areas is possibly another Hillsborough waiting to happen, a few things need to go wrong at the same time but it is possible. I don't want to cause any offence but I though the police are to blame? Now it looks like standing is being blamed. Can I put an interesting question out there, had the end been seated instead of terrace but everything else remained the same such as the poor crowd control and poor policing would the outcome have been any different? Then that gives me another question, what if the end at Hillsborough had been safe standing? It was poor policing allowing fans to enter the ground without tickets. With seats it would've been no different if anything worse as the people seated would've been trampled on by those being forced in With safe standing I feel the casualties would of been less as the only surge would've happened down the stair way and by the time anything serious would've happened in the Standing area the police would've been able to see that it was overcrowded maybe I'm looking at it though a supporter of safe standings eyes but Safe standing is a hell of a lot better than what we have now and what we did have Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welcome To The Jungle Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 The Hillsborough disaster was caused by many things 1. Standing: As much as we may not like it, if the fans had been seated, then those 96 would not have perished. 2. Policing: The poor decision to let all those fans down that tunnel into the middle of the bottom tier was disastrous, furthermore letting Liverpool who had brought more fans have the smaller section of the ground was also wrong. 3. Fences: The fans would have simply spilled over onto the pitch, and not been crushed. 4. Crash barriers: Few and far between at Hillsborough. Should be one every 4 rows that is the length of the row, and stops only for stairs where standing should be strictly prohibited. 5. General Organisation: No longer are indefinite numbers allowed into grounds on the turnstiles and stadium infrastructure has improved. If any of the above 5 had been at Hillsborough, then we'd not have this thread. However, with modern policing, ticketing systems, no fences and if crash barriers are laid out as I said in point 4, standing should be perfectly safe without safe standing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FoD Barmy Army Bream Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 Dont think it would matter if seating standing or safe standing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS34Red Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 The Hillsborough disaster was caused by many things 1. Standing: As much as we may not like it, if the fans had been seated, then those 96 would not have perished. 2. Policing: The poor decision to let all those fans down that tunnel into the middle of the bottom tier was disastrous, furthermore letting Liverpool who had brought more fans have the smaller section of the ground was also wrong. 3. Fences: The fans would have simply spilled over onto the pitch, and not been crushed. 4. Crash barriers: Few and far between at Hillsborough. Should be one every 4 rows that is the length of the row, and stops only for stairs where standing should be strictly prohibited. 5. General Organisation: No longer are indefinite numbers allowed into grounds on the turnstiles and stadium infrastructure has improved. If any of the above 5 had been at Hillsborough, then we'd not have this thread. However, with modern policing, ticketing systems, no fences and if crash barriers are laid out as I said in point 4, standing should be perfectly safe without safe standing.I disagree regarding seating, I think the situation would have been worse, many would have stumbled on the seats and been trampled on. Hilsborough happened not because of standing but because too many people were into a small enclosed area. Stairs were not banned after what happened at Ibrox, they were made safer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welcome To The Jungle Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 I disagree regarding seating, I think the situation would have been worse, many would have stumbled on the seats and been trampled on. Hilsborough happened not because of standing but because too many people were into a small enclosed area. Stairs were not banned after what happened at Ibrox, they were made safer. I agree, I think the seating implies that everyone has their own seat though and no more people could go in. Yes, 4 rows then a barrier, 25,000 cram on one terrace at dortmund that is an old school terrace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bar BS3 Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 Hillsborough happened because people couldn't get out. Simple as that. Of course other mistakes led to the overcrowding, but the only dangerous thing that should never have been there and is now thankfully non existent were the fences at the front. The simple removal of these has insured that "Hillsborugh" will never happen again. Seating was implemented to sedate the crowd and manage attendance numbers. Not actually stop people being crushed to death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS34Red Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 Hillsborough happened because people couldn't get out. Simple as that. Of course other mistakes led to the overcrowding, but the only dangerous thing that should never have been there and is now thankfully non existent were the fences at the front. The simple removal of these has insured that "Hillsborugh" will never happen again. Seating was implemented to sedate the crowd and manage attendance numbers. Not actually stop people being crushed to death.I'm shocked that liverpool fans are not behind safe standing, to me it seems like the authorities tried to blame everything but themselves including standing. What happened happened because of the police letting in too many, because of the pen and because of the fences. If there was seats the same would have happened because the fences would have still been there and the police would have still allowed too many in. So I struggle to understand why people continue to blame standing. The police, sheff wed and the FA are to blame, not standing. Had there been measures in place to only allow the maximum permitted into the terrace then nothing would have happened. Seating was brought in not for safety reasons but because every seat has a number, the people that be can then figure out who is in that seat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TNBT Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 Don't know if it's been said but it also happened because the gates were locked so people couldn't get out & having to try go back, then not being able to escape onto the pitch, it was several factors not just the standing, I reckon 1 big reason is the police, it's a lot safer these days with proper stewarding policing & standing there's no reason it can't be safe again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CotswoldRed Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 I'm shocked that liverpool fans are not behind safe standing, to me it seems like the authorities tried to blame everything but themselves including standing. What happened happened because of the police letting in too many, because of the pen and because of the fences. If there was seats the same would have happened because the fences would have still been there and the police would have still allowed too many in. So I struggle to understand why people continue to blame standing. The police, sheff wed and the FA are to blame, not standing. Had there been measures in place to only allow the maximum permitted into the terrace then nothing would have happened. Seating was brought in not for safety reasons but because every seat has a number, the people that be can then figure out who is in that seat. The standing thing is a red herring, particularly if its ticketed properly. You could think of so many non-causal reasons why Hillsborough happened. I'll start with 1) standing and 2) wearing jeans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimplyRed Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 For anyone interested in the legalities of standing at football stadia, the following article is a good read: http://www.fsf.org.uk/campaigns/safe-standing/the-legalities-of-standing/ Worth noting that it is NOT illegal to stand, thus you cannot be arrested for standing and the police should not get involved in dealing with standing fans. The restriction on standing is part of the contract formed between you and the stadium owner as part of their terms and conditions in letting you in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maltshoveller Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 Rugby fans can both stand and drink pints of beer whilst watching the game. Why is that?? One doesnt have thugs at ruggrer matches would be their answer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eco Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 Thanks to Blagdon for his post-match informative 'tour' of the railseats or whatever they're called. Bit bemused why peope were more concerned with the seat rather than the rail though. As Blagdon pointed out they will rarely be used ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
middlehitter40 Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 Rugby fans can both stand and drink pints of beer whilst watching the game. Why is that?? the simple answer is mentality. football has a much greater following with the UKs underclass. moving the debate on are we ready for standing again? The atmosphere and intensity is so much greater when everyone is huddled together singing on a terrace. look at the 1500 or so that went storming towards the away end at the derby. I'm sure the authorities will look at incidents like that when they consider if we go back to standing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
You Do The Dziekanowski Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 the simple answer is mentality. football has a much greater following with the UKs underclass. moving the debate on are we ready for standing again? The atmosphere and intensity is so much greater when everyone is huddled together singing on a terrace. look at the 1500 or so that went storming towards the away end at the derby. I'm sure the authorities will look at incidents like that when they consider if we go back to standing. Even when the Standing is the opposite side to the away end? If that stops clubs having safe standing just say you can't have it next to the away fans. Simples Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
middlehitter40 Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 Even when the Standing is the opposite side to the away end? If that stops clubs having safe standing just say you can't have it next to the away fans. Simples I used that as an example because it was the last time it happened at AG. but in response to your reply on that day their was about 1500 on the pitch running at the away end and they came from all stands. The stand that saw least people enter the field of play was the home East End adjacent to the away end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS34Red Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 Don't know if it's been said but it also happened because the gates were locked so people couldn't get out & having to try go back, then not being able to escape onto the pitch, it was several factors not just the standing, I reckon 1 big reason is the police, it's a lot safer these days with proper stewarding policing & standing there's no reason it can't be safe again.Standing wasn't even part of the reaaon it happened, the same would have happened had there of been seats and I think the seats would have made things worse. Fed up with standing always beeiny blamed when it had nothing to do with standing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swampy Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 "The simple answer is mentality. football has a much greater following with the UKs underclass." Rubbish. Having been to Welsh rugby games - Neath v Port Talbot ... Bridgend v Swansea. Newport v Cardiff. The list goes on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BristolBEAT Posted February 16, 2014 Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 Safe Standing can't be knocked by certain individuals (Maria) when Liverpool fans have been standing all game. Standing even worse in seated areas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EASTEND WURZEL Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 And the 1st person in the U.K to use Safe Standing during a competitive Football League match is................................ Gotta Love that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CotswoldRed Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 And the 1st person in the U.K to use Safe Standing during a competitive Football League match is................................ safe standing.JPG Gotta Love that Rosenior will have to sit down before be sees that photo. He'll be panicking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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