Eco Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screech Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formerly known as ivan Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 You are a brave person to ask this. I got shot down when I questioned when we signed wade elliott! People will tell you we sign older players as an exception not the rule (which is crap when you look at our signings this season). Personally I think that "pillar" had to go and seems to have without anyone confirming as much. It quite clearly wasnt working and whilst great in principle, if it was that simple every club would do it. Im glad we have signed the older players. It makes sense to sign players with potential to sell on for profit but not if they are going to struggle to survive in league 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formerly known as ivan Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 I'm not sure why people still take this so literally. All they are saying is, it would be better to sign more younger players when they can. We have signed more younger players this season than older, backing this theory up. I think we have signed double the amount of players over the age of 24 than we have 24 and ubder... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrs Court Red Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 I'm glad sense has prevailed, but what pisses me off is the proceeding 12 months where we are told how its vital to not deviate blah blah blah. This club had lacked any coherent long term approach and that is responsible for the shocking losses we have seen. I'm not convinced lessons have been learned, just new excuses to hide behind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC_Dan Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 We've been through this all before. Signing younger players is the general plan but there will always be exceptions. If you put a bunch of young, inexperienced players into a team with no spine and a recent history of losing then they are very unlikely to be able to turn things around. There has to be a core of experienced players to get the younger ones out of trouble. Recruitment last summer was possibly a little naive in that respect but in the club's defence, they suffered with long term injuries to Kelly and Pearson and the complete loss of form and confidence of Fontaine. Either way, the only way out of the mess was to sign some more experienced players. The policy doesn't forbid this in any way and to interpret it as doing so would be stupidity of the highest order. Besides which, I think the only permanent signings made have been Osbourne, who isn't that old, and El Abd, who fulfils (or should at any rate) a role we've been missing since McCombe left. There may be more experienced players signing for the club in the summer if Cotterill feels that's what he needs to build a competitive side, but that's OK so long as the recruitment of under 24s isn't neglected. Then once the experienced players have got the team back into a cycle of winning games rather than losing some of the younger ones can be introduced to realise their potential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Rizzle Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 I find it utterly astonishing that so many users of this forum find it so hard to understand what this pillar means. It isn't 100% literal or a strict rule. The club has a long term STRATEGY for recruitment that focuses mainly on signing players under-24. This is for obvious reasons such as value for money and sell on value. However, every now and then the manager may wish to sign a player older than 24, if the right target becomes available, or if he feels we require more experience in the squad. The under-24 policy is a guideline, not a rule, and if you can get your head around that concept then you'll realise that the club is following this policy. We have a very young squad that was struggling. Earlier in the season we were in crisis and action needed to be taken. The manager was changed and he identified targets to help our 'youngsters' out. El-abd was signed as an experienced head in the back line considering Carey will be gone in the summer. All the other signings are on loan, they are temporary signings to help us out until the end of the season. What's the problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nogbad the Bad Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 It makes sense to sign experienced players on loan to get you out of a mess, and a few old heads permanently to build a younger team around. The pillar remains though in so far as City will look to predominantly sign younger players with sell on value. Has to be said that signing experienced loan players has been the right policy this season with the likes of Elliot and Gillet doing a superb job to help ensure the club has the platform to bring the policy to fruition in a higher division. I 'd expect future permanent signings to be at least 2-1 in favour of u.24's, but less priority given to the age of loan players unlkess they're brought in with a view to signing permanently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin phantom Posted March 21, 2014 Admin Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 Lets be honest the five pillars nonsense was an embaressing statement that sounded like it had been written by someone in the first year of a business course. It was dreampt up by someone trying to make it look like the club had direction off the pitch. Knowing now that there are people behind the scenes who 'specialise' in this kind of management speak it was not a surprise that the club took it on. Looking back it did feel like the club lost its way somewhat, and we are now slowly getting back on track, following numerous staff leaving and changing roles. Don't read too much into it, hoepfully all talk of the 5 pillars is left in the past Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nogbad the Bad Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 DP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red_Jim Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 Am I the only one who doesn't really worry too much about this 5 pillar strategy? To me it's a bit of a white elephant and I'm not sure fans should be taking it too seriously. I'm just happy we've started winning some games and cheering up our long-suffering supporters. The signing of Wade Elliot in particular has helped. He's 35 and to be honest, I couldn't care less, he's the kind of player we needed to dig ourselves out of the hole we were in. Signing players under 24 is something every single football club will be looking to do. Without that leadership and guidance, though, you won't achieve much. It's very noble but even a managerial genius like Arsene Wenger has to sign players like Mertesacker and Arteta to guide and lead a team of young talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 by just signing young players this club found its self at the bottom of league one and couldn't buy a win we then sacked the manager brought in a new guy who added much needed expereance and we've now climed the table, Thankfully he saw the problem at the club and fixed it, We've only signed one play perm that is well over 24 thats El Adb, the rest are loans, or close to the 24 age, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid in the Riot Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 The average age of our summer signings made by Burt/SOD was somewhere between 21-22 years old I think. With hindsight that was perhaps a little naive, especially considering the high earning experienced players like Fontaine and Kilkenny were shot. Now we finally have an experienced spine to the team, the nous to pick up results is there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 This question was asked of our chief exec in the interview posted by redexile on another thread. Harman answered that SC identified that he didn't have players with the experience needed within the existing squad so asked the board for permission to bring them in. Harman said this was agreed because of our situation and this makes complete sense. It would be absolute folly to stick to the 5 pillars plan and thereby achieve relegation with a team with an average age of 21! Long term the aim is to bring on our youth players, or bring in players aged under 24. This helps with the clubs financial plans because it means we will be paying less on transfer fees ( and probably wages) but will also have a better chance of making profit as and when those players move on. In the past we have invariably made a loss, and some big ones, on older player re-sales because we usually paid over the odds on older journeyman pros - both in transfer fees and wages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 Let's be honest this pillar was always going to be in danger the minute the PR stunt of giving Louis Carey another 12 month contract was announced, the best news is SC was quick enough to seize on it and get the real reason out of the way by giving him his 15 minutes and the new appearance record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin phantom Posted March 21, 2014 Admin Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 The strategy is still being strongly adhered to - as Doug Harman has reiterated in another thread. The club obviously needed a long term strategy and its a sound one that will eventually pay off. Its obvious that we needed a short term fix to get us out of the mess we were/are in and it was sensible to put that in place as Cotterill and Doug Harman have said. like someone else said, its amazing how people can take statements so literally and arrive at completely the wrong conclusion. True, but I was more referencing that actual "five pillars" phrasing etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedZepperin Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 Aside from the aging player recruitment issue, given that the "pillars": a) don't mention the club's supporters (oops, forgot about them); and b) have been used (while keeping a straight face) to justify a pre-season tour to Botswana I suspect that they are not pillars at all but merely a cheat sheet for someone not used to multi-tasking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 Aside from the aging player recruitment issue, given that the "pillars": a) don't mention the club's supporters (oops, forgot about them); and b) have been used (while keeping a straight face) to justify a pre-season tour to Botswana I suspect that they are not pillars at all but merely a cheat sheet for someone not used to multi-tasking. why are people still bringing this up we've known for 2 seasons that this was going to happen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedZepperin Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 why are people still bringing this up we've known for 2 seasons that this was going to happen I wasn't aware that was a time limit on mentioning how the "pillars" had been used to justify the tour of Botswana. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 I wasn't aware that was a time limit on mentioning how the "pillars" had been used to justify the tour of Botswana. I don't see exactly what the problem is here, it's a training camp for the players for fitness levels, yes SL has had influence on the destination but hey that's what happens when you are the owner and pay the bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southvillekiddy Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 I just hope that all the words and fancy plans are put into action and are not just the subject of talking shops. I'm still baffled that Brian Tinnion could come back and discover that we had no true system working to scout for young talent in the area (No wonder a lot go to Southampton etc..) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 I just hope that all the words and fancy plans are put into action and are not just the subject of talking shops. I'm still baffled that Brian Tinnion could come back and discover that we had no true system working to scout for young talent in the area (No wonder a lot go to Southampton etc..) Brian Tinnion has been very recently meeting local development centres and football schools. He will have been told that City do not have a good reputation. Local coaches have told him how to improve things. One problem could be Mr Cotterril. If local lads do not feature in the first XI why send kids to City! Other clubs have superior set ups and can provide more 1 - 2 - 1 coaching. Local development centres and football schools can provide more continuity cutting out City allowing the big boys to step in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 Brian Tinnion has been very recently meeting local development centres and football schools. He will have been told that City do not have a good reputation. Local coaches have told him how to improve things. One problem could be Mr Cotterril. If local lads do not feature in the first XI why send kids to City! Other clubs have superior set ups and can provide more 1 - 2 - 1 coaching. Local development centres and football schools can provide more continuity cutting out City allowing the big boys to step in. You were doing well until the highlighted/underlined portion, you will have to explain, firstly 3 young local players have frequently 'featured'. The current set up was overseen presumably by the last failure, but hey no let's try to deflect the blame onto a bloke who actually seems to be getting results for a change at our club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedZepperin Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 I don't see exactly what the problem is here, it's a training camp for the players for fitness levels, yes SL has had influence on the destination but hey that's what happens when you are the owner and pay the bills. Yes, I'm aware of that. So what's your point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chappers Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 I think the pillar was much needed and worry we are heading down the same familiar path as before. It's all about balance, and the risk is that we keep taking the easy option, end up with a squad of journeymen, and cannot attract younger players, or kids into Academy. OK at this level, but when we go back up it will make us uncompetitive. This season was a case of necessity, see what happens in the summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 Brian Tinnion has been very recently meeting local development centres and football schools. He will have been told that City do not have a good reputation. Local coaches have told him how to improve things. One problem could be Mr Cotterril. If local lads do not feature in the first XI why send kids to City! Other clubs have superior set ups and can provide more 1 - 2 - 1 coaching. Local development centres and football schools can provide more continuity cutting out City allowing the big boys to step in. You mean I've dreamt that SC has helped and played Bryan Reid and Burns........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 You were doing well until the highlighted/underlined portion, you will have to explain, firstly 3 young local players have frequently 'featured'. The current set up was overseen presumably by the last failure, but hey no let's try to deflect the blame onto a bloke who actually seems to be getting results for a change at our club. Three local players are not automatic choices v journeymen. If this is the norm it will become difficult for Bristol City to target the most talented youngsters. There has to be a clear focus on development to counter the aggressive recruitment from others e.g. Cardiff and Southampton. City do have an advantage over Rovers as the City academy plays academies of a higher level, but clear constant developmemt has to be identified into the first XI. The why was posed by a local and highly qualified coach who has trained at least five players currently at the club at academy level, and a coach who feels the clubs focus has already changed under Mr Cotterill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 You mean I've dreamt that SC has helped and played Bryan Reid and Burns........ They may be peripheral squad members. Support your local club, or play for them has to be a reality for local lads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid in the Riot Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 Three local players are not automatic choices v journeymen. If this is the norm it will become difficult for Bristol City to target the most talented youngsters. There has to be a clear focus on development to counter the aggressive recruitment from others e.g. Cardiff and Southampton. City do have an advantage over Rovers as the City academy plays academies of a higher level, but clear constant developmemt has to be identified into the first XI. The why was posed by a local and highly qualified coach who has trained at least five players currently at the club at academy level, and a coach who feels the clubs focus has already changed under Mr Cotterill. I don't believe many managers would've persisted playing Reid and Bryan, two young and inconsistent lads, as much as SOD did. Especially when results weren't going well. He even stuck in a very raw Morrell too and gave Burns his debut. In the case of Reid and Bryan the hard part is now done and SC can hopefully go on and reap the benefits. It will be interesting to see who and when he bloods next from the Academy... We should be looking to give at least 2-3 lads from the Academy their debuts each season IMO, ambitious maybe, but Southampton are doing it and they're in the Premier League. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrs Court Red Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 What happened to the under 21/ Development squad? It seemed to be a clearing house for otger clubs cast offs, on their way to non league Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.