cityexile Posted April 18, 2014 Report Share Posted April 18, 2014 Ummm. In truth was not there today, but have my own views on this. Sure, players can have good and bad games. However the more recent games I have seen, its not been uncommon for us to conceed midfield for long periods, even when in isolation any given player has been doing ok. I have to say for me this is about the shape of the team. When we play JET behind two up front we are effectively playing a 4312. JET whatever his strengths is not somebody who is going to win you many midfield battles. Against a team with four or even five in midfield, we simply as much as anything become outnumbered. Balanced against this is we do create chances. In terms of challanging next year, this is something we are going to have to address in my view. The choice for me in some games is to play two up front with no JET, or to play one up front with JET in the hole behind, my prefered option. Looking at a few games recently its not been that Pack or whoever is not up to it, just they always have the spare man. Anyway, just my ramblings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miketh2nd Posted April 18, 2014 Report Share Posted April 18, 2014 I don't think pack was great today and has been rather inconsistent all season. However I still don't understand playing 5 at the back (when defending ) and then having pack as deep lying sweeper . Esp when county had a break there striker had the 3 CBS on him 2nd half by the semi circle yet only one went to him and others were unsure what to do .which with a better striker would of gone to score . I Still think majority of the time unless we get a cb who can run/dribble with the ball out of defence ala caulker used to so pack doesn't have to come deep. I have noticed at home all season even with nosworthy one cb always seems unsurehere to be. I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlwaysARed Posted April 18, 2014 Report Share Posted April 18, 2014 Not worried about it. In fact Notts did us a favour today tbh in that the game should have showed Cotterill we are five or six players short of a good squad if we are talking top six finish next season. He will have funds with the release of Pearson, Fontaine and Elliott but whether he can get all the players he needs for next season remains to be seen. Might take a couple of years to get the side he really wants? Bit over dramatic. I'd say we're only 3 player short of a Play Off team. Defensive Midfield, Winger & RB. That is if we keep some of the loan players of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Who Are Rovers? Posted April 18, 2014 Report Share Posted April 18, 2014 His passing is as good as anyone in the teams. He's still young, give him time to develop, he has plenty more to offer. For 3/4 of the season, I think he has been one of our standout players, but he has faded away a bit the last few games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UK0wnag3 Posted April 18, 2014 Report Share Posted April 18, 2014 I like Pack, but he was poor today. It happens. But if I was Cotterill I would have had him off early doors and stuck Kelly on. We showed for the ten minutes accumulated that we had too much in the final third for them. As it was, we couldn't keep the ball, County knocked it around nicely and we failed to deal with Grealish. We've robbed 'em blind. It's nice to be the thieves for once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandare 1966 Posted April 18, 2014 Report Share Posted April 18, 2014 I really rate Gillet and would like to see him in the team on a regular basis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biggythecity Posted April 18, 2014 Report Share Posted April 18, 2014 As usual someone has to have a scapegoat even when we win(luckily granted!!) Pack did ok and was no worse or better than the rest of the midfield, good squad player for next year and has improved as the season has gone by playing in a position that is alien to him,needs to be attacking mid to be at his best Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfOfWestStreet Posted April 18, 2014 Report Share Posted April 18, 2014 Let's just ground the guy into the floor he obviously isn't good enough for our club, let's pay for a taxi back to where ever the **** he came from. Or... We could support one of the better young players in our squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoldenBall Posted April 18, 2014 Report Share Posted April 18, 2014 One of the best long ranger passers I've seen at the gate for a while. But he needs a bit more than a 40 yard pass to his game.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcofisher Posted April 18, 2014 Report Share Posted April 18, 2014 If that were the case, why did we lose out on every 2nd ball in the middle of the pitch, and why did County dominate possession? That's as poor a central midfield performance as I've seen down the Gate from BCFC in a fair while. I think it was the lack of desire from Pack which annoyed me the most. Pack & Elliot weren't playing against Toure & Fernandinho now were they? Although you could have sworn they were...we are always going to get dominated if we play two in centre midfield against a team who play 3 in centre midfield, Jet does not count for a centre mid and is not going to help us win possession, we have clearly been set up to counter with quite a free front three and hey ho it worked, we won 2-1, you can hardly expect us to dominate possession in the way we set up, especially with JET really not at it today, expect us mostly to counter and sometimes win ugly like today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoldenBall Posted April 18, 2014 Report Share Posted April 18, 2014 we are always going to get dominated if we play two in centre midfield against a team who play 3 in centre midfield, Jet does not count for a centre mid and is not going to help us win possession, we have clearly been set up to counter with quite a free front three and hey ho it worked, we won 2-1, you can hardly expect us to dominate possession in the way we set up, especially with JET really not at it today, expect us mostly to counter and sometimes win ugly like today. Notts County lined up as a 4-4-2, we affectively had 5 midfielders to their four, and we still got dominated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleepy1968 Posted April 18, 2014 Report Share Posted April 18, 2014 Bit over dramatic. I'd say we're only 3 player short of a Play Off team. Defensive Midfield, Winger & RB. That is if we keep some of the loan players of course. What, when we are playing 4 or 5 loanees every game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bedminster Born And Red Posted April 18, 2014 Report Share Posted April 18, 2014 Bit over dramatic. I'd say we're only 3 player short of a Play Off team. Defensive Midfield, Winger & RB. That is if we keep some of the loan players of course. I don't think so. You have to have strength in depth to finish top six and we are a long way off that at the moment. I bet Cotterill signs more than three in the summer. And if he didn't we could expect another lower mid table finish I reckon. Not knocking Cotterill who has introduced some decent players, much needed spirit and a way of playing most of the time that the players understand and have got to grips with. But we are some way from being the finished article at this level as today proved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcofisher Posted April 18, 2014 Report Share Posted April 18, 2014 Notts County lined up as a 4-4-2, we affectively had 5 midfielders to their four, and we still got dominatedi only ever saw one main striker, they other one must have been dropping back a lot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron-Bcfc Posted April 18, 2014 Report Share Posted April 18, 2014 Best passer of the ball we've got but he just doesn't offer enough in other areas for me, him and Wade Elliott were both sat too far back today just invited pressure all game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Posted April 18, 2014 Report Share Posted April 18, 2014 Ummm. In truth was not there today, but have my own views on this. Sure, players can have good and bad games. However the more recent games I have seen, its not been uncommon for us to conceed midfield for long periods, even when in isolation any given player has been doing ok. I have to say for me this is about the shape of the team. When we play JET behind two up front we are effectively playing a 4312. JET whatever his strengths is not somebody who is going to win you many midfield battles. Against a team with four or even five in midfield, we simply as much as anything become outnumbered. Balanced against this is we do create chances. In terms of challanging next year, this is something we are going to have to address in my view. The choice for me in some games is to play two up front with no JET, or to play one up front with JET in the hole behind, my prefered option. Looking at a few games recently its not been that Pack or whoever is not up to it, just they always have the spare man. Anyway, just my ramblings. we are always going to get dominated if we play two in centre midfield against a team who play 3 in centre midfield, Jet does not count for a centre mid and is not going to help us win possession, we have clearly been set up to counter with quite a free front three and hey ho it worked, we won 2-1, you can hardly expect us to dominate possession in the way we set up, especially with JET really not at it today, expect us mostly to counter and sometimes win ugly like today. These 2 posts sum it up for me. I like Pack as a footballer, and as someone who holds his position well and makes sure we don't get walked through. Not being 'walked through' is very different to having an opposition midfield 'dominate' us in terms of possession and territory, what he does is secure the edge of the box and not go haring around hunting the ball. If you want to see someone chase the ball for 90 minutes, I'll give you Marvin Elliot. If you want a midfielder who will stay disciplined, hold his position and protect the D, then Pack (mostly this season) gives you that. The other crucial point here, is that our 3 man midfield contained JET and Wade Elliot. JET is not exactly 'industrious' in there and so a 2 man midfield of Pack and Elliot leaves Pack trying to hold the D, whilst Elliot has to do most of the chasing - and let's face it, that's not really his game either is it. So you've got a 3 man midfield comprising of 1 attack-minded winger-cum attacking mid, one enigma who won't work back, leaving Pack to be the scapegoat for being "dominated". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingswoodactor Posted April 18, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2014 we are always going to get dominated if we play two in centre midfield against a team who play 3 in centre midfield, Jet does not count for a centre mid and is not going to help us win possession, we have clearly been set up to counter with quite a free front three and hey ho it worked, we won 2-1, you can hardly expect us to dominate possession in the way we set up, especially with JET really not at it today, expect us mostly to counter and sometimes win ugly like today. You're just papering over the massive cracks that is our distinctively average midfield. Set up for the counter attack? We didn't look like we had any other plan than to sit deep, soak up pressure and then punt it 40 yards forwards towards our front men, and then 9/10 lose the ball. Your point also only makes it clearer that JET should possibly move on in the Summer, as having an ACM that can't drop off now and again to regain/keep possession of the ball is just ridiculous and means we're playing with 10 men. And yes, I can expect us to have the majority of possession at home to Notts County. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcofisher Posted April 18, 2014 Report Share Posted April 18, 2014 You're just papering over the massive cracks that is our distinctively average midfield. Set up for the counter attack? We didn't look like we had any other plan than to sit deep, soak up pressure and then punt it 40 yards forwards towards our front men, and then 9/10 lose the ball. Your point also only makes it clearer that JET should possibly move on in the Summer, as having an ACM that can't drop off now and again to regain/keep possession of the ball is just ridiculous and means we're playing with 10 men. And yes, I can expect us to have the majority of possession at home to Notts County. I'm also surprised you chose to criticise Pack for our lack of possession in midfield, as as neat as he seems on the ball I failed to see Wade Elliot barely put in a challenge today, If we wanted to dominate Paterson should've been dropped for another midfielder, in my opinion very much flattered to deceive as you believe Pack does, ran around lots but offered nothing compared to Baldock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingswoodactor Posted April 18, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2014 I'm also surprised you chose to criticise Pack for our lack of possession in midfield, as as neat as he seems on the ball I failed to see Wade Elliot barely put in a challenge today, If we wanted to dominate Paterson should've been dropped for another midfielder, in my opinion very much flattered to deceive as you believe Pack does, ran around lots but offered nothing compared to Baldock. I agree with your opinions on both Elliot & Paterson. Both were passengers today, and people thinking that Paterson is potentially a Baldock replacement are having a complete laugh. He'll get you one goal in 4/5 games if you're lucky. Oh for a Paul Hartley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrdc Posted April 18, 2014 Report Share Posted April 18, 2014 I have a mate who is a Cheltenham season ticket holder and he is gobsmacked when he hears that we play Pack in a defensive position. His success at Cheltenham was based around attacking passing and movement and when being played in a midfield 3 of JET and Eliott, Pack is always going to do the dirty stuff which it would seem isn't his strength. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingswoodactor Posted April 18, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2014 I have a mate who is a Cheltenham season ticket holder and he is gobsmacked when he hears that we play Pack in a defensive position. His success at Cheltenham was based around attacking passing and movement and when being played in a midfield 3 of JET and Eliott, Pack is always going to do the dirty stuff which it would seem isn't his strength. BCFC + Round pegs in round holes = Didn't we see Pack playing further forward earlier in the season to a positive effect? When he came here I was expecting that type of player to be honest, and someone who could make things happen as well as chipping in with 5-8 goals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Skin Posted April 19, 2014 Report Share Posted April 19, 2014 His passing is as good as anyone in the teams. He's still young, give him time to develop, he has plenty more to offer. For 3/4 of the season, I think he has been one of our standout players, but he has faded away a bit the last few games. Spot on for me. Pack is the new Skuse for me. Sadly not appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Vader Posted April 19, 2014 Report Share Posted April 19, 2014 Not sure what game some of you were watching yesterday? The problem wasn't Pack or Elliot, the problem was accommodating JET in a free role who contributed absolutely nothing all game. This was proved out when Cotterill stuck him up front out of the way and pushed Paterson out wide. I can't understand how he wasn't subbed much earlier with Kelly and Pearson on the bench. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fka dagest Posted April 19, 2014 Report Share Posted April 19, 2014 Oddly enough I thought Pack was one our better players yesterday. He always puts in a good shift and he sprayed the ball around nicely. He's far from the worst midfielder we've had over the years. And having watched the performance of Campbell-Ryce yesterday I recalled how much grief he used to get on here. He was and is a good player who rarely wastes anything. I agree with Darth Vader. If people want to point the finger then it should be at our inconsistent, maverick genius. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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