Red-Robbo Posted March 4, 2015 Report Share Posted March 4, 2015 What really is the point of this forum then? To praise absolutely everything that SL does? To boast about where we've worked, where we've travelled? To belittle people's opinions? To refuse to engage in critical thought processes? When did this "morons only" ruling get passed? Is it applicable to the forum only or the club (if a "club" actually still exists) as a whole? SL's actions have always been placed under scrutiny in this forum and, hopefully, always will be. If you've got to the point where your only arguments are "SL is infallible" and "if you don't like it, go and start a pub team", I would suggest that you have not gone round in circles but rather that you have backed yourself into a corner. Why? Because you have run out of arguments to justify why, all of a sudden, the five pillars were thrown out of the window and this new "multi-sport" organisation idea was launched (with no consultation with stakeholders: wonderful change management there) that makes no sense whatsoever unless it is seen for what it is: a complete and utter sham. I have no idea how you can read my posts and infer that I suggest Steve Lansdown is infallible. He's clearly made his share of mistakes. However, he's undoubtedly a clever and canny man. The cash advantages of having two clubs sharing one stadium and the economies of scale and opportunities for client-sharing of having a merged commercial department are also unarguable. What is open to question - as I said in my post above - is the influence of BS on matters away from this corporate brief. Where we differ is in our interpretation of that. However, as I say, clarification from the hierarchy would be most welcome, in fact essential, if only to put this argument to bed. PS: I also agree with the gist of Nick J's latest post, although I question whether AG would have actually be redeveloped without SL. The club had access to sod all "funds" and was already building a debt mountain. It's nice to think of fan-owned stadia (etc) but like many things, it's hankering for a return to (quote, unquote) "proper football". A past to which we'll probably never be able to return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted March 4, 2015 Report Share Posted March 4, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chivs Posted March 4, 2015 Report Share Posted March 4, 2015 What really is the point of this forum then? To praise absolutely everything that SL does? To boast about where we've worked, where we've travelled? To belittle people's opinions? To refuse to engage in critical thought processes? When did this "morons only" ruling get passed? Is it applicable to the forum only or the club (if a "club" actually still exists) as a whole? SL's actions have always been placed under scrutiny in this forum and, hopefully, always will be. If you've got to the point where your only arguments are "SL is infallible" and "if you don't like it, go and start a pub team", I would suggest that you have not gone round in circles but rather that you have backed yourself into a corner. Why? Because you have run out of arguments to justify why, all of a sudden, the five pillars were thrown out of the window and this new "multi-sport" organisation idea was launched (with no consultation with stakeholders: wonderful change management there) that makes no sense whatsoever unless it is seen for what it is: a complete and utter sham. If BS is a "complete and utter sham", why are the people involved setting it up? Are they all confused or are they being nefarious? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cityexile Posted March 4, 2015 Report Share Posted March 4, 2015 ... Why? Because you have run out of arguments to justify why, all of a sudden, the five pillars were thrown out of the window and this new "multi-sport" organisation idea was launched (with no consultation with stakeholders: wonderful change management there) that makes no sense whatsoever unless it is seen for what it is: a complete and utter sham. Struggling with this a little. I do understand concerns of many about need to work with BS etc, and I am pretty sure if it turns out pointless it will be ditched. However, 'sham' implies some conspiracy, cover or whatever. Claims of incompetence can indeed be made, but I do not understand what you are suggesting, genuinely. Simple question - why do you believe BS has been created? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedZepperin Posted March 5, 2015 Report Share Posted March 5, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedZepperin Posted March 5, 2015 Report Share Posted March 5, 2015 Struggling with this a little. I do understand concerns of many about need to work with BS etc, and I am pretty sure if it turns out pointless it will be ditched. However, 'sham' implies some conspiracy, cover or whatever. Claims of incompetence can indeed be made, but I do not understand what you are suggesting, genuinely. Simple question - why do you believe BS has been created? Sham means (I believe) that something purports to be something that it is not. Why was BS created? Certainly not, in my opinion, to further professional sport in the West Country, or whatever the claim was/is. In order to believe that, I would need to have heard SL mention the idea some time before. He seemed to spring it on everybody in Botswana, completely out of the blue. I would have to see a man who had excelled in furthering other sports. He has been fairly average (I'm being kind) at the sport he most likes, i.e. football. One would expect to see some link-up with the local authorities. Is there one? One would expect to see something more substantial than a basketball team (without which, Bristol Sport is a groundshare) that must have cost a packet of crisps and a curly wurly. I don't know exactly why BS was created but my reply to Chivs above details some of its effects which I believe were desired and did not occur by chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedZepperin Posted March 5, 2015 Report Share Posted March 5, 2015 It's nice to think of fan-owned stadia (etc) but like many things, it's hankering for a return to (quote, unquote) "proper football". A past to which we'll probably never be able to return. I'm sure that if SL sat down with the SC&T, there are many options that could be discussed as to how fans could have some control over the pitch or the stadium in the future. It's not just about company shares. Unfortunately, the whole BS concept seems to be driven by a desire to do the exact opposite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted March 5, 2015 Report Share Posted March 5, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedZepperin Posted March 5, 2015 Report Share Posted March 5, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted March 5, 2015 Report Share Posted March 5, 2015 If I was the billionaire owner of Bristol City, I would not have any doubts about entrusting at least part of the club's identity/heritage/assets/future security to the SC&T. Neither would you, I imagine. If at some future point I - or my son and heir - wanted to sell the club, not owning the ground would be somewhat of a impediment. I reckon a BCFC use covenant would offer the same assurances to us non-billionaire supporters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickJ Posted March 5, 2015 Report Share Posted March 5, 2015 If I was the billionaire owner of Bristol City, I would not have any doubts about entrusting at least part of the club's identity/heritage/assets/future security to the SC&T. Neither would you, I imagine. Neither would I which is what lies behind my and your concerns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedZepperin Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 Neither would I which is what lies behind my and your concerns. Maybe we should be even more concerned about what is happening while we type, i.e. Bristol City, as a football club (in the terms that we can all understand) is being (or has been) dismantled. It is now no more than a "brand" (a sub-brand at that) and a "trading company". Maybe that's sufficient evidence to suggest that it would be wise to set up an alternative A.F.C,, as Edward is proposing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bernie from barrow gurney Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 So I've been away. Did you set up the breakaway faction yet? Or still just in early discussions? Remember fellas, SL is not a voted in, democratic leader, he is a benevolent dictator. The only way you can change anything he is doing or proposing to do is to buy him out or throw him out. All else is wasted air, energy & emotion. So here are some links for you to get started: How to be a Billionaire - to make a small fortune from a football club, you need a large fortune first. Any accountant will tell you that. How to start a Revolution - you might want to wait till we fall back through the leagues, NLBR style. Lots of nice moaning moaners then for you to hatch your schemes with, mmmmmm, yum yum. How to set up a Football Club - does what it says on the tin. and finally How to Avoid Insanity - I think some people on here really do need this, particularly the 6th minute one. Otherwise, pay yer money, or don't, or STFU. There are no other options (or at least any that anyone who isn't totally deranged will listen to). p.s. 10 points clear in 1st place. Billionaire locally born owner splashing the cash in the 'right' ways. New stadium actually being built. Great Manager. Young Squad. Can't buy a Home ticket POTD anymore - Just a reminder in case you missed these slight irrelevances/annoyances, which could put a tiny dent in your revolutionary zeal - at least for the rest of the season.. p.p.s. I'm out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedYoshi Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 In regards to the issue with stadium operations (having to visit/contact Bristol Sport instead of Bristol City), this would have been the case with any groundshare + background department arrangement. With two teams sharing the ground, it wouldn't have made sense to have football fans contact the football club while rugby fans contact the rugby club about the same thing. Simply to increase efficiency, a separate "stadium operations" department would have been created that covers the two clubs. Bristol Sport has merely made that separate department more visible, and easier to contact. Conceptually, I can understand the disenfranchisement, but the problem almost seems to be that we know about this separate department. They've been too honest with the set up. If they'd set up the separate department, not really told anyone, and then any enquiries we put to the club were forwarded to this department, we'd be none the wiser and, as alluded to, people would accept it (contradicting the conceptual problem, to a point). But because they put out additional methods of communication, directly with this additional department, it's apparently a sham... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedZepperin Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manon Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 I'm interested, I really am. But not if there's any ultras flags involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedYoshi Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 Well, I'll steer clear of mentioning the water polo team then... Fair enough points, absolutely. And particularly enjoyed the Orwell comment - may have got carried away there. I'm not making the comparison between contacting Bristol Sport and contacting Bristol City, though. I'm making the comparison between contacting Bristol Sport and contacting this potential back office dept. Contacting a back office dept, which would work on behalf of both clubs, would be as different to contacting Bristol City as contacting Bristol Sport is. Wow, I'm going to stop writing the word 'contacting'. It just seems slightly like semantics, based on the fact that Bristol Sport also do more, and are more prominent. You're happy for the control of the stadium to be passed to a separate entity, but not this separate entity. As for further (possible) justification/explanation for the creation of Bristol Sport, see an earlier post of mine, which is "plausible", at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedZepperin Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 It just seems slightly like semantics, based on the fact that Bristol Sport also do more, and are more prominent. You're happy for the control of the stadium to be passed to a separate entity, but not this separate entity. As for further (possible) justification/explanation for the creation of Bristol Sport, see an earlier post of mine, which is "plausible", at least. I would think it more obvious for Ashton Gate Stadium (or a similar org.) to promote events and such like as it has done so far. People know what it's about and its name does not intefere with City's. It is, in effect, a sub-brand of Bristol City. That's the way I like it. Uh huh. As for a back-office dept, it should be just that. No need for this overkill. Which earlier post mate (number, please)? Can't be arsed to trawl through all this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richwwtk Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedZepperin Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 I'd be amazed if the people running Bristol Sport were 'unclear as to their role' - it seems to me they know their role and are promoting themselves a little too heavily which is causing your concerns. There seems to be too much confusion internally as to "who does what". Aren't a lot of the Bristol Sport staff people who previously worked for the Football Club but had their role taken over by Bristol Sport? Yes, you're right. Eventually, all the non-playing staff will be BS employees. At that point, the "football club" as we know it will not exist. That's fact not opinion. The guy who looked like Dracula (from glos cricket, forget his name), the Gould boy......it goes back a long way, don't think we've ever had someone in charge of the commercial side I actually like! I always thought that Colin Sexstone looked like Mike & Bernie Winters' lesser known brother. Bedminster born, supported City as a boy. Good enough for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedYoshi Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 I would think it more obvious for Ashton Gate Stadium (or a similar org.) to promote events and such like as it has done so far. People know what it's about and its name does not intefere with City's. It is, in effect, a sub-brand of Bristol City. That's the way I like it. Uh huh. As for a back-office dept, it should be just that. No need for this overkill. Understood. Guess it's just down to what people prefer - the Bristol Sport model allows absolutely every single event (be it gigs, corporate stuff, or actual matches of all teams) to be promoted through a single channel. A one stop shop, as it were. Business wise, it just reduces the number of departments to be worried about. Some people will like it, others won't, that's fair enough, but I'm not sure it points to anything sinister or otherwise. Which earlier post mate (number, please)? Can't be arsed to trawl through all this. Ha, quite. Post #108. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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