Fordy62 Posted March 7, 2015 Report Share Posted March 7, 2015 Both received 6 match bans, but Cisse's was increased by one match as he had already been sent off this season. Ahhhh. Many thanks. You've just decreased my general anger levels for the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted March 7, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2015 Good well deserved bans for both. Well done FA for once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welcome To The Jungle Posted March 7, 2015 Report Share Posted March 7, 2015 Have to disagree WTTJ. He's from the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. That's why he'd qualify to play for Ireland at rugby or cricket and - were he an Olympic athlete - he could choose to do the same. I'm not making a sectarian point here - being neither Irish or Catholic - when I say Northern Ireland is not "Britain". The status of Anglesey, which is part of Wales, is irrelevant. I'm afraid you can't disagree. It says so in his passport British Citizen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted March 7, 2015 Report Share Posted March 7, 2015 I'm afraid you can't disagree. It says so in his passport British Citizen. Which isn't the same thing as being British. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dilligaf Posted March 7, 2015 Report Share Posted March 7, 2015 Which isn't the same thing as being British. Eh? Serious question. Can you explain your reasoning for this. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welcome To The Jungle Posted March 7, 2015 Report Share Posted March 7, 2015 Which isn't the same thing as being British. Eh? Serious question. Can you explain your reasoning for this. Cheers I'm with diligaf...please explain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted March 7, 2015 Report Share Posted March 7, 2015 You can carry a British passport and be from a dependency like Jersey, Isle of Man etc. Or not from the UK at all for that matter. The official name of this country is the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and THAT'S what is written in his passport. Assuming he has one, in NI you can apply for an Irish one. Why do you think the Provos used to write Brits Out on walls? Do you think they were seeking to deport themselves? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
North London Red Posted March 7, 2015 Report Share Posted March 7, 2015 You can carry a British passport and be from a dependency like Jersey, Isle of Man etc. Or not from the UK at all for that matter. The official name of this country is the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and THAT'S what is written in his passport. Assuming he has one, in NI you can apply for an Irish one. Why do you think the Provos used to write Brits Out on walls? Do you think they were seeking to deport themselves? Jersey and the Isle of Man are not part of the United Kingdom, and passports in both places are issued by a different body (the Lieutenant Governor) to those in the UK. Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom, and UK passports to Northern Irish citizens are issued by HM Passport Office, the same as they would be for citizens of England, Scotland and Wales. A Northern Irish citizen who elects to have a UK passport (rather than an Irish passport) will have 'British Citizen' written in the 'Nationality' section, just the same as an English, Scottish or Welsh citizen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted March 7, 2015 Report Share Posted March 7, 2015 Jersey and the Isle of Man are not part of the United Kingdom, and passports in both places are issued by a different body (the Lieutenant Governor) to those in the UK. Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom, and UK passports to Northern Irish citizens are issued by HM Passport Office, the same as they would be for citizens of England, Scotland and Wales. A Northern Irish citizen who elects to have a UK passport (rather than an Irish passport) will have 'British Citizen' written in the 'Nationality' section, just the same as an English, Scottish or Welsh citizen. You miss the point I was making: you can carry a British passport without being British. You can be a British citizen likewise without being British. Every media outlet I have worked on has guidelines about not calling Northern Irish people "Britons". If you start on about "the British Isles " - a term that isn't used in Ireland - then you'd have to start arguing that citizens of the Republic of Ireland meet that definition of "British", which clearly they don't. The fact is Northern Irish people are UK citizens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
North London Red Posted March 7, 2015 Report Share Posted March 7, 2015 You miss the point I was making: you can carry a British passport without being British. You can be a British citizen likewise without being British. Every media outlet I have worked on has guidelines about not calling Northern Irish people "Britons". If you start on about "the British Isles " - a term that isn't used in Ireland - then you'd have to start arguing that citizens of the Republic of Ireland meet that definition of "British", which clearly they don't. The fact is Northern Irish people are UK citizens. "You can carry a British passport without being British" - well, not according to the official guidance on the HMPO website: https://www.gov.uk/british-passport-eligibility Key line: "You must have British nationality to apply for or hold a British passport". What is your definition of 'British', if 'having British nationality' and 'being British citizens' are not suitable criteria? Surely the strict legal definition is that you're British if your passport says 'British Citizen' (leaving aside dual nationals)? My definition of 'British' is if your passport says 'British Citizen'. Genuinely interested and not just being antagonistic here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted March 7, 2015 Report Share Posted March 7, 2015 "You can carry a British passport without being British" - well, not according to the official guidance on the HMPO website:https://www.gov.uk/british-passport-eligibility Key line: "You must have British nationality to apply for or hold a British passport". What is your definition of 'British', if 'having British nationality' and 'being British citizens' are not suitable criteria? Surely the strict legal definition is that you're British if your passport says 'British Citizen' (leaving aside dual nationals)? My definition of 'British' is if your passport says 'British Citizen'. Genuinely interested and not just being antagonistic here. The proof of my argument would be if you went in a Belfast pub and started calling the locals British. I did briefly work in BBC Northern Ireland and even my Protestant colleagues - weird how you instantly find out people's religion there - were adamant that they weren't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redmelsh Posted March 7, 2015 Report Share Posted March 7, 2015 Got to say I am with RR on this one. He is part of the UK, but not part of Great Britain. Hence why when we have the olympics the team is called Great Britain AND Northern Ireland - indicating they are in fact not part of GB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
North London Red Posted March 7, 2015 Report Share Posted March 7, 2015 The proof of my argument would be if you went in a Belfast pub and started calling the locals British. I did briefly work in BBC Northern Ireland and even my Protestant colleagues - weird how you instantly find out people's religion there - were adamant that they weren't. I go back to my previous question: what is your definition of British, if 'having British nationality' and 'being British citizens' are not suitable criteria? I understand that some from Northern Ireland may not consider themselves British, but if their passport says 'British Citizen', then strictly (and probably legally) speaking, aren't they British? Are you saying someone isn't British even if their passport says 'British Citizen'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted March 7, 2015 Report Share Posted March 7, 2015 I go back to my previous question: what is your definition of British, if 'having British nationality' and 'being British citizens' are not suitable criteria? I understand that some from Northern Ireland may not consider themselves British. Are you saying someone isn't British even if their passport says 'British Citizen'? British citizen is being used as shorthand for UK citizen, which is the more correct legal definition. I believe the census form made that definition clear. Oh and it's not some people there, it's all people - although some will talk about being subjects of the Crown and of "British heritage" etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
North London Red Posted March 7, 2015 Report Share Posted March 7, 2015 British citizen is being used as shorthand for UK citizen, which is the more correct legal definition. I believe the census form made that definition clear. Oh and it's not some people there, it's all people - although some will talk about being subjects of the Crown and of "British heritage" etc. I'll ask for a third time: what is your definition of British, if 'having British nationality' and 'being British citizens' are not suitable criteria? Not sure I agree with your second line, either - I've met plenty of Northern Irish people on my travels (and have a couple of Northern Irish work colleagues) and to say that all people there don't consider themselves British is wide of the mark, in my view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted March 7, 2015 Report Share Posted March 7, 2015 I'll ask for a third time: what is your definition of British, if 'having British nationality' and 'being British citizens' are not suitable criteria? Not sure I agree with your second line, either - I've met plenty of Northern Irish people on my travels (and have a couple of Northern Irish work colleagues) and to say that all people there don't consider themselves British is wide of the mark, in my view. They are UK citizens. Ireland isn't Britain ergo someone born on the island cannot be British. I can't be arsed to debate this any more. Maybe write to Jonny Evans and see what he thinks. He has a bit if time on his hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welcome To The Jungle Posted March 7, 2015 Report Share Posted March 7, 2015 Biggest group is British. That is not to say that those who voted for N.Irish would not also identify with British just less so. http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/interactive/2012/dec/12/northern-ireland-census-national-identities-mapped Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted March 7, 2015 Report Share Posted March 7, 2015 Biggest group is British. That is not to say that those who voted for N.Irish would not also identify with British just less so. http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/interactive/2012/dec/12/northern-ireland-census-national-identities-mapped You know, you can self-identify as what you like, but at the end of the day the island is called Ireland not Britain, the Olympic team is Great Britain & Northern Ireland NOT "Britain" and the Queen is the Queen of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland NOT the "Queen of Britain". Here's what Wikipedia says which, even if you don't agree with, you'll understand and accept that that is my view and where I'm coming from: Modern usage[edit] There is much conflation of the terms United Kingdom, Great Britain, Britain, and England. In many ways accepted usage allows some of these to overlap, but some common usages, especially by foreigners to Britain, are incorrect. The term Britain is widely used as a common name for the sovereign state of the United Kingdom, or UK for short. The United Kingdom includes three countries on the largest island, which can be called the island of Britain orGreat Britain: these are England, Scotland and Wales. However the United Kingdom also includes Northern Ireland on the neighbouring island of Ireland, the remainder of which is not part of the United Kingdom. England is not synonymous with Britain, Great Britain, or United Kingdom. The term Great Britain originally served to distinguish the island of Britain from the French region of Brittany (in French Grande Bretagne and Bretagne respectively). With the Acts of Union 1707 it became the official name of the new state created by the union of the Kingdom of England (which then included Wales) with the Kingdom of Scotland, forming the Kingdom of Great Britain.[34] In 1801, the name of the country was changed to United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, recognising that Ireland had ceased to be a distinct kingdom and was incorporated into the union. After Irish independence in the early 20th century, the name was changed to United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, which is still the official name. In contemporary usage therefore, Great Britain, while synonymous with the island of Britain, and capable of being used to refer politically to England, Scotland andWales in combination, is sometimes used as a loose synonym for the United Kingdom as a whole. For example, the term Team GB and Great Britain were used to refer to the United Kingdom's Olympic team in 2012 and this usage created controversy as some interpreted it as excluding Northern Ireland.[35] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welcome To The Jungle Posted March 7, 2015 Report Share Posted March 7, 2015 You know, you can self-identify as what you like, but at the end of the day the island is called Ireland not Britain, the Olympic team is Great Britain & Northern Ireland NOT "Britain" and the Queen is the Queen of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland NOT the "Queen of Britain". Here's what Wikipedia says which, even if you don't agree with, you'll understand and accept that that is my view and where I'm coming from: Modern usage[edit] There is much conflation of the terms United Kingdom, Great Britain, Britain, and England. In many ways accepted usage allows some of these to overlap, but some common usages, especially by foreigners to Britain, are incorrect. The term Britain is widely used as a common name for the sovereign state of the United Kingdom, or UK for short. The United Kingdom includes three countries on the largest island, which can be called the island of Britain orGreat Britain: these are England, Scotland and Wales. However the United Kingdom also includes Northern Ireland on the neighbouring island of Ireland, the remainder of which is not part of the United Kingdom. England is not synonymous with Britain, Great Britain, or United Kingdom. The term Great Britain originally served to distinguish the island of Britain from the French region of Brittany (in French Grande Bretagne and Bretagne respectively). With the Acts of Union 1707 it became the official name of the new state created by the union of the Kingdom of England (which then included Wales) with the Kingdom of Scotland, forming the Kingdom of Great Britain.[34] In 1801, the name of the country was changed to United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, recognising that Ireland had ceased to be a distinct kingdom and was incorporated into the union. After Irish independence in the early 20th century, the name was changed to United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, which is still the official name. In contemporary usage therefore, Great Britain, while synonymous with the island of Britain, and capable of being used to refer politically to England, Scotland andWales in combination, is sometimes used as a loose synonym for the United Kingdom as a whole. For example, the term Team GB and Great Britain were used to refer to the United Kingdom's Olympic team in 2012 and this usage created controversy as some interpreted it as excluding Northern Ireland.[35] As the article clearly states though, Great Britain is the major Island of the British Isles containing England, Wales and Scotland. However all three have part of their country as Islands namely the isles of White, Anglesey and the many Scottish Isles. If someone were to be born on the Isle of White they are English, but as they are not born on Great Britain are not British? Of course not. Great Britain is not England, Wales and Scotland, just most of it. So perhaps all the Islanders can go and join the N.Irish in the 'So close yet no cigar you're not British camp' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted March 7, 2015 Report Share Posted March 7, 2015 As the article clearly states though, Great Britain is the major Island of the British Isles containing England, Wales and Scotland. However all three have part of their country as Islands namely the isles of White, Anglesey and the many Scottish Isles. If someone were to be born on the Isle of White they are English, but as they are not born on Great Britain are not British? Of course not. Great Britain is not England, Wales and Scotland, just most of it. So perhaps all the Islanders can go and join the N.Irish in the 'So close yet no cigar you're not British camp' "Isle of White" WTTJ? You baint be one o' them Ukippers, bist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe jordans teeth Posted March 7, 2015 Report Share Posted March 7, 2015 Always deny it like murderers do,not saying Evans is by the way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldstandrobin Posted March 8, 2015 Report Share Posted March 8, 2015 "Isle of White" WTTJ? You baint be one o' them Ukippers, bist? Whats Brown, Smelly and Comes out of Cowes.......................The Isle of Wight Ferry :laughcont: :laughcont: :laughcont: Couldn't resist it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.