8 Men Had A Dream

[Miah Dennehy]

How did the players not have a choice?

 

When Pompey were going bust the majority of their players owed money didn't tear their contracts up.

 

Because they wouldn't have got their money anyway, bankruptcy laws were slightly different then anyway, but the stark reality is that City were absolutely potless, and the likelihood of the 8 getting a penny was slim to **** all.

I don't know the situation at Pompey (or in truth the full details at City back then) but I would hazard a guess that when Pompey went pop, those in control at the club did everything possible to protect themselves as individuals and probably didn't come out of it too badly, whereas City were a total basket case at the time.

If I was a City fan, I wouldn't worry too much about what happened back then, it can't be changed, just be thankful you have a very wealthy backer, who seems to have learnt that marquee signings doesn't work, but building a team does.

[redfred]

If it makes you feel better, you keep thinking that

Unless you have startling revelation then I will keep thinking that

[handsofclay]

I dont think the '8 men had a nightmare when they had to consult with PFA chairman Gordon Taylor regarding the best course of action' has the same ring to it to be honest!

I meant that the 8 players were embroiled in a nightmare. Gordon Taylor endeavoured to make this nightmare slightly more pleasant for them. The eight players really had no option but to tear up their contracts as to do otherwise would mean them getting absolutelysod all except abuse from fans blaming them for the demise and then death of their beloved club. At least the tearing up of their contracts promised the chance of a bit of money, albeit paltry, and the thanks of the people they lived amongst.

 

I believe other players when faced with the same situation now don't tear up their contracts as they see that clubs can still survive, or start again and they see that the 8 got pretty well sod all anyway. These things weren't apparent when City were the trailblazers.

[Kid in the Riot]

Because they wouldn't have got their money anyway, bankruptcy laws were slightly different then anyway, but the stark reality is that City were absolutely potless, and the likelihood of the 8 getting a penny was slim to **** all.

I don't know the situation at Pompey (or in truth the full details at City back then) but I would hazard a guess that when Pompey went pop, those in control at the club did everything possible to protect themselves as individuals and probably didn't come out of it too badly, whereas City were a total basket case at the time.

If I was a City fan, I wouldn't worry too much about what happened back then, it can't be changed, just be thankful you have a very wealthy backer, who seems to have learnt that marquee signings doesn't work, but building a team does.

 

With respect, this is a fair bit of conjecture on your part!

[Miah Dennehy]

With respect, this is a fair bit of conjecture on your part!

 

Yes it is. However, I have plenty of experience of dealing with companies that go pop, and these days you can often see the familiar pattern.

 

Bankruptcy- especially for football clubs- was very different in 1982 to what it is now. Under current football regulations  City would not be in existence any more (in fact things were changed to stop a club doing it again after City went through).

 

Although not the same, City's experience was more akin to what Rangers have recently been through rather than what the likes of Pompey went through.

Technically, Bristol City and Rangers no longer exist, and plenty of Rovers and Celtic fans revel in that- although as a season ticket holder at both clubs I think my fellow fans are clutching at straws, Same fan base, same ground, same team.

Anyway, I'm rambling (again) I think the point is that the Ashton Gate 8 story isn't quite as romantic as some would like to think it is.

[TinnionForEngland]

Yes it is. However, I have plenty of experience of dealing with companies that go pop, and these days you can often see the familiar pattern.

 

Bankruptcy- especially for football clubs- was very different in 1982 to what it is now. Under current football regulations  City would not be in existence any more (in fact things were changed to stop a club doing it again after City went through).

 

Although not the same, City's experience was more akin to what Rangers have recently been through rather than what the likes of Pompey went through.

Technically, Bristol City and Rangers no longer exist, and plenty of Rovers and Celtic fans revel in that- although as a season ticket holder at both clubs I think my fellow fans are clutching at straws, Same fan base, same ground, same team.

Anyway, I'm rambling (again) I think the point is that the Ashton Gate 8 story isn't quite as romantic as some would like to think it is.

 

Revel in what you want, we very much exist and you should stop embarrasing our city whilst we do everything possible to make it proud.

[The Joker]

Yes it is. However, I have plenty of experience of dealing with companies that go pop, and these days you can often see the familiar pattern.

 

Bankruptcy- especially for football clubs- was very different in 1982 to what it is now. Under current football regulations  City would not be in existence any more (in fact things were changed to stop a club doing it again after City went through).

 

Although not the same, City's experience was more akin to what Rangers have recently been through rather than what the likes of Pompey went through.

Technically, Bristol City and Rangers no longer exist, and plenty of Rovers and Celtic fans revel in that- although as a season ticket holder at both clubs I think my fellow fans are clutching at straws, Same fan base, same ground, same team.

Anyway, I'm rambling (again) I think the point is that the Ashton Gate 8 story isn't quite as romantic as some would like to think it is.

Has pork chop got your mobile.

[Bristol Rob]

How did the players not have a choice?

When Pompey were going bust the majority of their players owed money didn't tear their contracts up.

The rules were different back then, the players would have got nothing. In fact we were why the rules were changed.

[phantom]

Only started watching City in '87 so this was all before my time.

 

Wasn't there something about players having long contracts and higher wages than the club could afford?

[Bristol Rob]

Only started watching City in '87 so this was all before my time.

Wasn't there something about players having long contracts and higher wages than the club could afford?

There was, as far as I understand, at least one player on an eleven year deal on top flight money.

[Miah Dennehy]

Revel in what you want, we very much exist and you should stop embarrasing our city whilst we do everything possible to make it proud.

 

You didn't actually read what I posted then?

[handsofclay]

There was, as far as I understand, at least one player on an eleven year deal on top flight money.

Yes, Clive Whitehead. At one stage he was even playing in the reserves of a Div 3 team, us, on 1st Div wages that were increasing all the time. Eventually he went to West Bromwich. We panicked after Gary Collier left on freedom of contract to join Coventry and placed our best players on lengthy contracts that seen them tied to the club for their playing careers. Whether this led to those players then becoming complacent and our subsequent dramatic fall is debatable. Another reason why it's absurd to eulogise them for so say having a dream! 

[Miah Dennehy]

Has pork chop got your mobile.

 

Way over my head I'm afraid.

[Rudolf Hucker]

I do allow myself a wry smile when- quite often on this forum- City fans complain that Rovers 'stole' The Mem, and that they acted immorally with regards to the rugby club, if you are looking to follow a team with a long history of good business ethics in the hope that somehow your team is 'better' than others off the pitch, then football is probably the wrong sport for you!

You're a good poster, Miah and have made some valid points on this thread but in trying to score a cheap point you've erroneously conflated two issues (the events of 1982 and the Rovers' acquisition of the Memorial Ground) which had COMPLETELY different motivations.

The events of 1982 were all preceded by years of mismanagement by the City board which, as you say you have experience of working with failing businesses you will recognise, spent and committed to spend far more money than it ever had any chance of bringing in. Having seen Gary Collier, then City's highly rated centre half, force the first "freedom of contract" move to Coventry - effectively the predecessor of the Bosman - Alan Dicks was allowed to sign a number of players on lengthy contracts to prevent repetition. In the case of young Clive Whitehead, his contract was extended to 11 years! After relegation from the top flight, gates (then the club's primary source of income) almost halved. A second relegation followed with the same effect yet these players will still on contract and we kept on spending, replacing Dicks with Bobby Houghton and Roy Hodgson who were allowed to recruit the likes of Mick Hartford for then quite large transfer fees. As you rightly point out, back then in business terms we were a basket case.

As you well know, the situation regarding the Rovers' acquiring the Mem was based not on their own financial crisis but taking business advantage of the perilous financial state of the rugby club. Back in 1982, your club attempted a similar strategy to acquire Ashton Gate, taking business advantage of the perilous financial state of Bristol City Football Club. Thankfully for us, your attempt to plunder our club failed. The rugby club were not so lucky. Those of us who lived through 1982 and the shenanigans attempted by the Rovers will never forgive or forget. It changed forever the dynamic between City and Rovers from a sort of friendly, bantering sporting rivalry to fiercely adversarial. That won't change for a couple of generations at the very least (certainly for as long as I draw breath).

Both City in 1982 and Rovers, in it's acquisition of the Mem and previously, in its attempted acquisition of Ashton Gate, acted entirely within the law however the ethics of all of these situations were, at the very least questionable.

[BTRFTG]

Good to see some of us old 'uns still have decent memory. I made several of the points on Saturday when Dave L spouted North Korean reverence to blokes who were half decent, but who were mere club employees.

For you young 'uns see if your Kindle thingamajigs can access 'For The Good Of The Game' by John Harding. It's a history of the PFA and contains an excellent chapter on the episode.

The facts were simple:

The 8 could have kept their contracts, become creditors of the insolvent entity but would not have been able to play until their registrations had been transferred (they would have remained an asset for administrator disposal);

The 8 were traded 'unconnected' status in return for them mutually agreeing to annul their contracts of employment.

The latter option therefore gave them free reign to negotiate deals with whomever they wished. The fact few of them obtained lucrative deals was a simple reflection they were on overpaid, indulgent contracts at City.

Hobson's maybe, but the deification and sympathy has never been justified. They were happy to exploit the club to a position where the club itself became untenable and thereafter reaped the consequence.

[handsofclay]

The previous two posts have been superb and if either of you two gents were on the ballot paper tomorrow I'd put a cross alongside it. It's great to read such common sense from people who lived through the events.

[Rudolf Hucker]

[cider head]

Ok for those not in to a dream..

 

Eight men dumped in a scheme
That saved a football team
Made to tear their contracts up so we could go on
NOW THIRTY THREE YEARS ON

We're still going strong
We're Bristol City
Give thanks to the eight

[MarcusX]

So what we're saying is the 8 weren't heroes and Alan Dicks is to blame?

[Miah Dennehy]

So what we're saying is the 8 weren't heroes and Alan Dicks is to blame?

 

Dicks out.

[phantom]

Powerful stuff to read !

[cider head]

 

 

 

 

 

[Rudolf Hucker]

Ok for those not in to a dream..

 

Eight men dumped in a scheme

That saved a football team

Made to tear their contracts up so we could go onNOW THIRTY THREE YEARS ON

We're still going strong

We're Bristol City

Give thanks to the eight

How about this more factually correct version ...

Eight men helped seal the fate

Which saved our Ashton Gate

Tore their contracts up so we could go on

More than thirty years on

We're still going strong

We're Bristol City

Give thanks to the eight

[handsofclay]

I always remember when that 81-82 season was about to start that I perked myself up looking at the fixture list and seeing we were playing many clubs I had never seen before such as Doncaster Rovers and Brentford etc, as I had been watching City since 1970 and they had always been, in that period, either top tier or second tier. I thought it would be quite exciting and something different. Little did I know we would spend the majority of the next 33 years in the bottom two divisions.

I bought shares the first day they were available.

[Rudolf Hucker]

So what we're saying is the 8 weren't heroes and Alan Dicks is to blame?

Nobody's saying that. What Dicks did had to be sanctioned by the board. The buck stops with them.

What the 8 did allowed us to continue, that's for sure. Had they not, we would have had to fold. Heroes if you like. I for one will always stand to applaud them.

[Mighty Squirrel Kingdom]

How about something along the lines of 'Ripped Up Their Contracts' to the tune of 'Drink Up Thy Zider':

 

'Ripped up their contracts,

Ripped up their contracts,

So that City could survive.

If it wasn't for The Eight

There wouldn't be an Ashton Gate

The Eight helped City stay alive...'

[Malago]

Could somebody explain how within 48 hours, we've gone from serenading the first Championship team in 60 years through the streets of Bristol, to discussing 1982 yet again. A record in self flageation even by our masochist standards.