Pre-Season Portugal Tour

[Olé]

[Tins]

[Olé]

They were playing Braga on the 18th so I can only assume Braga or Villa initiated that new fixture leaving it open for us to play them in their presentation game.

[Rob k]

300 is entirely unbelievable tbh.

I would think a few already on holiday would attend, but 300 paying holiday season fares for a kickabout ?

No, I wouldn't be miffed if it were cancelled for another team in a pre-season kickabout as the primary objective would be to have a good time and get some sun on me back.

300 is entirely believable from what I've been hearing.

[Bar BS3]

300 is entirely believable from what I've been hearing.

I never really get this kind of statement.

Either you know 300 people who are going (doubtful) in which case it's likely that there will be many others going that you don't know, so 300 is an under estimation. Or you are completely picking a number out of the air, based on hearing about a few others who are going but have no idea whatsoever about the likely number who are going.

How could anyone have any idea when there are not even tickets for sale..?

[Kid in the Riot]

300 is entirely unbelievable tbh.

I would think a few already on holiday would attend, but 300 paying holiday season fares for a kickabout ?

No, I wouldn't be miffed if it were cancelled for another team in a pre-season kickabout as the primary objective would be to have a good time and get some sun on me back.

Goes to show how out of touch you are I suppose. I'm guessing you don't know anyone going?

If memory serves me right we took around 300 to Latvia. I suppose that was 'entirely unbelievable' at the time too.

[Cowshed]

logical so that a small section of fans from both clubs can get pissed together? Shit reason for a club to have a friendly with a specific club tbh

As those who attended the last trip pointed out it was attended by oaps, and previous trips people have taken family.

I like the idea that has been mooted of having wider supporter groups involved and having tournaments for academy/trust/kids/local teams. Bristol Jfc's this year are visiting FC Venlo.

Friendlies and tours are always supported by small sections of fans. These sections of fans are still significant. There is clear and logical opportunity to increase engagement via more thoughtful planning of friendlies.

Goes to show how out of touch you are I suppose. I'm guessing you don't know anyone going?

If memory serves me right we took around 300 to Latvia. I suppose that was 'entirely unbelievable' at the time too.

300 didn't go to Latvia, but you are right about the increased numbers going to Portugal.

[Robin1988]

So to summarise, a lot of people are talking with great authority about how many people going when they don't have a clue.

Rinse and repeat, OTIB.

[Kid in the Riot]

300 didn't go to Latvia, but you are right about the increased numbers going to Portugal.

Fair enough. Makes sense that many more would be going to Portugal than Latvia of course.

[Cowshed]

So to summarise, a lot of people are talking with great authority about how many people going when they don't have a clue.

Rinse and repeat, OTIB.

It is easy to have an idea because those who have attended previous tours are more or less the same groups. This core is attending with more friends and acquaintances.

Rinse and repeat, OTIB .. They barely have anything to do with OTIB to rinse and ahem repeat.

[Robin1988]

It is easy to have an idea because those who have attended previous tours are more or less the same groups. This core is attending with more friends and acquaintances.

Rinse and repeat, OTIB .. They barely have anything to do with OTIB to rinse and ahem repeat.

Even if some of the same people are going, without doing a straw poll of every City fan it could easily be wide of the mark.

[View from the Dolman]

Fair enough. Makes sense that many more would be going to Portugal than Latvia of course.

Didn't seem that many last time City were in Portugal (playing in Spain).

[Rob k]

I never really get this kind of statement.

Either you know 300 people who are going (doubtful) in which case it's likely that there will be many others going that you don't know, so 300 is an under estimation. Or you are completely picking a number out of the air, based on hearing about a few others who are going but have no idea whatsoever about the likely number who are going.

How could anyone have any idea when there are not even tickets for sale..?

What's not to get? All I've said was I find it entirely believable that 300 fans will travel to Portugal to watch city play villa (obviously that's changed now)

I'm not saying we will or won't take that number but it would not surprise me one bit.

[Cowshed]

Didn't seem that many last time City were in Portugal (playing in Spain).

Hardly surprising at one point the games were going to be behind closed doors.

Even if some of the same people are going, without doing a straw poll of every City fan it could easily be wide of the mark.

The fans who go on these trips like the one in post 34 are very very well known, and informed. These groups are attending and they will not be wide of any mark with their knowledge.knowledge backed by previous a lot of experience.

[Robin1988]

The fans who go on these trips like the one in post 34 are very very well known, and informed. These groups are attending and they will not be wide of any mark with their knowledge.knowledge backed by previous a lot of experience.

Knowledge would mean knowing how many people are going, which you don't. It's simple really.

[phantom]

Knowledge would mean knowing how many people are going, which you don't. It's simple really.

 

Why not just accept that people will be attending this trip, am sure they can have a count when they are out there for you to claim that you were right or wrong about the numbers going.

[Robin1988]

Why not just accept that people will be attending this trip, am sure they can have a count when they are out there for you to claim that you were right or wrong about the numbers going.

Of course they will; I just hate the determination generally to bash the club based on assumptions (something you'd know plenty about).

[Cowshed]

Knowledge would mean knowing how many people are going, which you don't. It's simple really.

Knowledge means having an understanding of something. Those who have attended tours previously, know those that do and are, will have more understanding than individuals who fall into categories of those who do not and maybe are not interested beyond being internet wum's.

[phantom]

Of course they will; I just hate the determination generally to bash the club based on assumptions (something you'd know plenty about).

 

Ouch ! - Another day I'll let you back that statement up with where I turned out to be wrong !!

 

Not sure how this was any "bash the club", it was people merely pointing out that many people had arranged trips to Portugal to see City play.

 

It was irrelevant whether it was 1000 or 100. The frustration is that Villa have confirmed the fixture as being cancelled, SC Farense have confirmed they are now playing us  - yet nothing has been said on either issue by our club.

[TomBCFCUK]

so now that you have just established to us that this core group will go regardless of which country we go to, can we stop wanking over Willem and crying when there isn't a friendly against them?

No, Willem would actually be a better test than the lot were suppose to play in Portugal!! Now got to go and carry on wanking!!

[TomBCFCUK]

villa, the side we were supposed to play, would have been a much tougher test than willem

Yeah but my point is we're not playing them now, much tougher test than Willem? I wouldn't be sure about that, expect half there reserve team would play due to them having other games out there, so doubt villa would of been that competitive anyway!!

[Sixtyseconds]

Of course they will; I just hate the determination generally to bash the club based on assumptions (something you'd know plenty about).

Its not an assumption.

City announced they were playing Villa.

Fans booked flights out of Bristol on the orange bird.

Now City are not playing Villa.

And the chaps at BS - BCFC haven't been arsed enough to send out the call its been coated off because of them or other.

Its easy to knock. Made easy to mock, but at the end of the day people who shelled out money to watch City deserve better ... Again.

[View from the Dolman]

http://www.bcfc.co.uk/news/article/update-for-portugal-tour-2505259.aspx

Considering this is nothing more than what the club could have said as soon as the issue was raised, BCFC (and more specifically our communications guy Adam Baker) really need to up its game and become more responsive. "We'll say something later" is not good enough when you come out with a holding statement like this a couple of days later.

[Harry]

I never really get this kind of statement.

Either you know 300 people who are going (doubtful) in which case it's likely that there will be many others going that you don't know, so 300 is an under estimation. Or you are completely picking a number out of the air, based on hearing about a few others who are going but have no idea whatsoever about the likely number who are going.

How could anyone have any idea when there are not even tickets for sale..?

In fairness Rob, 300 is entirely believable.

I know that when announced, my social media was littered with people saying they'd booked up. I could quite honestly say that I could name probably 80-100 people whom I know who are going. Most of those are also booked with other friends or family whom I couldn't actually name, so I know that there are many more.

As said, I could actually name getting on for 100.

[Coxy27]

In fairness Rob, 300 is entirely believable.

I know that when announced, my social media was littered with people saying they'd booked up. I could quite honestly say that I could name probably 80-100 people whom I know who are going. Most of those are also booked with other friends or family whom I couldn't actually name, so I know that there are many more.

As said, I could actually name getting on for 100.

 

Go on then!

[Harry]

Knowledge would mean knowing how many people are going, which you don't. It's simple really.

But a fair assumption can be made.

I could name getting on for 100 people who I know are going.

There is a growing contingent of City who are following England (circa 40 in Slovenia last week, circa 70 in Estonia last Oct, circa 70 booked for Lithuania this Oct), and I know that most, nearly all, of those are booked for Portugal.

Sometimes, people on here do have a decent 'knowledge' of what's likely to happen based on prior experiences and friendships made via these trips.

So please believe folks when they say that 300 is entirely believable.

[Harry]

Go on then!

Ha ha. I knew someone would say that!

I think I'll leave putting people's real names on a forum but take my word for it.

[Kid in the Riot]

But a fair assumption can be made.

I could name getting on for 100 people who I know are going.

There is a growing contingent of City who are following England (circa 40 in Slovenia last week, circa 70 in Estonia last Oct, circa 70 booked for Lithuania this Oct), and I know that most, nearly all, of those are booked for Portugal.

Sometimes, people on here do have a decent 'knowledge' of what's likely to happen based on prior experiences and friendships made via these trips.

So please believe folks when they say that 300 is entirely believable.

Nope, sorry Harry but that is not 'knowledge'. The internet wum's that rarely attend games and could count the number of City fans they know in real life on one hand know better!

['Orns]

[Sir Colby-Tit]

I've emailed David Lloyd.

 

He said: The tour will go ahead, and we will be able to clarify exact fixture details in the next day or two.

I don't believe that response is from Dave Lloyd, it's not sarcastic enough.

[gamon]

Seems pretty simple enough to understand sixtyseconds.

[WTMS]

this "significant number" is by far a minority- I would wager that if a poll of all City fans worldwide was taken, less than half would know specifically about any links between the fan bases of the two clubs, and much less would be a part of that number itself.

Not sure if you are interpreting things wrong here, perhaps i could be clearer, but in terms of the actual playing side and things such as coaches, training, scouting, etc. between the two clubs ;there is no link, that is what i was saying was imaginary. which is not what a post earlier in the thread suggested

Your posts include references to "we", "us" and "the club". There is nothing to misinterpret. Those references have to include fans, all of them minorities or not. If your view differs, you may want to re-examine what your notion of a FC is.

Back on topic.

Those fans who have paid for flights and accommodation in Portugal have been let down. Real clubs don't forget why they exist!

[Sir Colby-Tit]

Seems pretty simple enough to understand sixtyseconds.

I'm not sure about that. Consider our perception of time. It has long been recognized that physical time is very different than the time of our experience. In phenomenal time there is a past, present, and future, and we have the experience of our self as flowing through time, from past, through present, towards the future. In physics there is no such distinction, any instant of time can be set arbitrarily as the origin t = 0, but in fact that particular moment in time is no different in principle than any other moment in past or future. In physics, time is a dimension, much like space, and in modern physics space and time are combined in the notion of spacetime.

 

Let us suppose, hypothetically speaking, that physics is right, and that there is no flow of time, every moment is like every other. We can imagine a series of events as a length of a movie strip, whose individual frames can be viewed in succession through a movie projector, but that the succession is actually illusory, and that real time underlying the illusion is the movie strip itself, as if laid out on a table, with past towards the left and future towards the right. This results in a deterministic view of reality in which the final outcome is predetermined, and there is no longer anything like "free will" as we normally conceive it. And yet the characters recorded in the movie strip behave exactly as if they do have free will. At one point one character decides to take this action instead of that, and every time we go back to that point in the movie we see that same character exercising his free will again by making the same choice. The free choice is frozen in time when viewed externally, outside of time, but to the character there is nevertheless a free choice that he experiences as occurring at that point in time, as when viewing the film strip in sequence through a projector. Every frame in the movie sequence is perceived as the present moment, framed between leftward past and rightward future events, and yet as in physics, this perception is illusory, because in fact every instant is equal to every other, the past and future directions being merely relative.

[Tins]

Mods can someone please clear up this thread and move all Willem stuff into a new thread?

 

Then this one can purely be about tour rather than debating what's been said regarding Willem and City etc. Yawn.

[phantom]

Mods can someone please clear up this thread and move all Willem stuff into a new thread?

Then this one can purely be about tour rather than debating what's been said regarding Willem and City etc. Yawn.

The City / Willem debate has been moved to http://www.otib.co.uk/index.php?/topic/170619-bristol-city-and-willem-ii-links/

[redfred]

I'm not sure about that. Consider our perception of time. It has long been recognized that physical time is very different than the time of our experience. In phenomenal time there is a past, present, and future, and we have the experience of our self as flowing through time, from past, through present, towards the future. In physics there is no such distinction, any instant of time can be set arbitrarily as the origin t = 0, but in fact that particular moment in time is no different in principle than any other moment in past or future. In physics, time is a dimension, much like space, and in modern physics space and time are combined in the notion of spacetime.

Let us suppose, hypothetically speaking, that physics is right, and that there is no flow of time, every moment is like every other. We can imagine a series of events as a length of a movie strip, whose individual frames can be viewed in succession through a movie projector, but that the succession is actually illusory, and that real time underlying the illusion is the movie strip itself, as if laid out on a table, with past towards the left and future towards the right. This results in a deterministic view of reality in which the final outcome is predetermined, and there is no longer anything like "free will" as we normally conceive it. And yet the characters recorded in the movie strip behave exactly as if they do have free will. At one point one character decides to take this action instead of that, and every time we go back to that point in the movie we see that same character exercising his free will again by making the same choice. The free choice is frozen in time when viewed externally, outside of time, but to the character there is nevertheless a free choice that he experiences as occurring at that point in time, as when viewing the film strip in sequence through a projector. Every frame in the movie sequence is perceived as the present moment, framed between leftward past and rightward future events, and yet as in physics, this perception is illusory, because in fact every instant is equal to every other, the past and future directions being merely relative.

Correct

[Nogbad the Bad]

I'm not sure about that. Consider our perception of time. It has long been recognized that physical time is very different than the time of our experience. In phenomenal time there is a past, present, and future, and we have the experience of our self as flowing through time, from past, through present, towards the future. In physics there is no such distinction, any instant of time can be set arbitrarily as the origin t = 0, but in fact that particular moment in time is no different in principle than any other moment in past or future. In physics, time is a dimension, much like space, and in modern physics space and time are combined in the notion of spacetime.

 

Let us suppose, hypothetically speaking, that physics is right, and that there is no flow of time, every moment is like every other. We can imagine a series of events as a length of a movie strip, whose individual frames can be viewed in succession through a movie projector, but that the succession is actually illusory, and that real time underlying the illusion is the movie strip itself, as if laid out on a table, with past towards the left and future towards the right. This results in a deterministic view of reality in which the final outcome is predetermined, and there is no longer anything like "free will" as we normally conceive it. And yet the characters recorded in the movie strip behave exactly as if they do have free will. At one point one character decides to take this action instead of that, and every time we go back to that point in the movie we see that same character exercising his free will again by making the same choice. The free choice is frozen in time when viewed externally, outside of time, but to the character there is nevertheless a free choice that he experiences as occurring at that point in time, as when viewing the film strip in sequence through a projector. Every frame in the movie sequence is perceived as the present moment, framed between leftward past and rightward future events, and yet as in physics, this perception is illusory, because in fact every instant is equal to every other, the past and future directions being merely relative.

 

So, hypothetically speaking, can we go back in time to Ashton Gate that night in 1976 and the moment the ball is going high into the Stoke box, and Cheese is jumping up for it, and change the decisions of both Shilton and Pejic to clatter into him and knacker his knee?

 

Or just make Cheese go against all his instincts and hang back and let them clatter into each other, then pick up the loose ball and ram it jubilantly high into the unprotected the Stoke net?

 

The careers of Shilton and Pejic (unfortunately) over in a tragic instant while rampaging Supercheese continues to take the First Division by storm, going on to net 25 goals before firing England to qualification, and ultimately victory, in WC '78.

 

With Ray Cashley also a World Cup winner, having replaced Shilton between the sticks, of course.

[Strawberry2157.]

http://www.bcfc.co.uk/news/article/city-to-face-braga-on-tour-2506161.aspx

 

 

Great! Not one match when I'm there... what a waste of time & money!

[Carey 6]

Still a poor show from the club, they really shouldn't have announced anything until the 3 fixtures were sorted.

I would've went out on different dates to be able to see the Braga game.

[Tins]

Does anyone know where the Estadio Guia is?

[Strawberry2157.]

Still a poor show from the club, they really shouldn't have announced anything until the 3 fixtures were sorted.

I would've went out on different dates to be able to see the Braga game.

Me too. Can't even change my flights as I start work for Hargreaves Lansdown on the 20th!!! 

[Monkeh]

Still a poor show from the club, they really shouldn't have announced anything until the 3 fixtures were sorted.

I would've went out on different dates to be able to see the Braga game.

Sadly the pre-season tour isn't for the fans its for the players to work on match fitness and get ready for the season, and reading the story for the clubs website it wasn't ours or villa's fault that the game is going ahead it's the local fuzz

[Tins]

Sadly the pre-season tour isn't for the fans its for the players to work on match fitness and get ready for the season, and reading the story for the clubs website it wasn't ours or villa's fault that the game is going ahead it's the local fuzz

Seem's odd that Villa can play Fulham but not us though.

[Carey 6]

Sadly the pre-season tour isn't for the fans its for the players to work on match fitness and get ready for the season, and reading the story for the clubs website it wasn't ours or villa's fault that the game is going ahead it's the local fuzz

Understand that, but if they knew there would be more than the one game why not wait to announce it until the fixtures were sorted.

Also, the Police part is quite strange considering Villa are playing Fulham the Saturday before in the same stadium with no problems.

[Monkeh]

Understand that, but if they knew there would be more than the one game why not wait to announce it until the fixtures were sorted.

Also, the Police part is quite strange considering Villa are playing Fulham the Saturday before in the same stadium with no problems.

Aye but those are two big clubs who have played in Europe something that would make money sadly we aren't so we get shafted

And the club might not of announced anything until they actually confirmed as villa had agreed they thought it was confirmed so announced it (bot clubs did)

[WTMS]

Sadly the pre-season tour isn't for the fans its for the players to work on match fitness and get ready for the season, and reading the story for the clubs website it wasn't ours or villa's fault that the game is going ahead it's the local fuzz

 

You would have to question why Bristol City and Aston Villa would not realise a game such as this would not require policing/segregation/stewarding the moment it was decided to play it in Portugal.

 

Any savvy Supporter would have spotted that. Any savvy Bristol City Supporter who went to Latvia, Scotland or Sweden would have spotted that. 

 

Bristol City have wasted fans time and money via their amateur naivety.

[View from the Dolman]

You would have to question why Bristol City and Aston Villa would not realise a game such as this would not require policing/segregation/stewarding the moment it was decided to play it in Portugal.

 

Any savvy Supporter would have spotted that. Any savvy Bristol City Supporter who went to Latvia, Scotland or Sweden would have spotted that. 

 

Bristol City have wasted fans time and money via their amateur naivety.

Bristol City v Charlton in Spain didn't have any policing or segregation. Why would Villa be that different?

[Monkeh]

You would have to question why Bristol City and Aston Villa would not realise a game such as this would not require policing/segregation/stewarding the moment it was decided to play it in Portugal.

 

Any savvy Supporter would have spotted that. Any savvy Bristol City Supporter who went to Latvia, Scotland or Sweden would have spotted that. 

 

Bristol City have wasted fans time and money via their amateur naivety.

They know it needed policing but the local authorities wouldn't do it

How the **** is that the clubs fault? If anyone is amateur it's the Portuguese police not city or villa

[WTMS]

Bristol City v Charlton in Spain didn't have any policing or segregation. Why would Villa be that different?

Because the general support of Charlton like that of Brentford, Fulham, Orient, Palace, Watford .. is benign.

[BCFC Jimmer]

Bristol City v Charlton in Spain didn't have any policing or segregation. Why would Villa be that different?

 

Lets be open and honest about this.  If 600 hundred Villa and City showed up it without any stewarding or police it could be carnage.  Think about the reputation of the two clubs and how many fans they take away.

 

Anyone who thinks otherwise is naive.

[WTMS]

They know it needed policing but the local authorities wouldn't do it

How the **** is that the clubs fault? If anyone is amateur it's the Portuguese police not city or villa

The policing in Portugal is not amateur, it is baton to the head ask questions later.

Hundreds of City fans x hundreds of Villa fans x sun x alcohol in a foreign land and people at Bristol City did not realise instantly when they proposed it that = Very high risk.

As pointed out any savvy fan who went to in particular Latvia would have thought of the risk instantly.

[phantom]

It certainly isn't the fault of City or Villa.

 

If people want to point fingers, point them at the knuckle draggers who create the bad reputation this club has - we are all tarred with the same brush.

 

Do we have a bad reputation when playing pre season friendlies abroad?

 

But like WTMS mentioned above, it wasn't rocket science that this fixture would need "monitoring" by authorities

[phantom]

Does anyone know where the Estadio Guia is?

 

Interesting - doesn't seem to exist ???

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_football_stadiums_in_Portugal

[Tins]

Interesting - doesn't seem to exist ???

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_football_stadiums_in_Portugal

 

Guia is a small town on the outskirts of Albufiera, so I presume it's the small ground of the local team Guia FC.

[phantom]

Guia is a small town on the outskirts of Albufiera, so I presume it's the small ground of the local team Guia FC.

 

Of course the other thing Estadio Guia is "Stadium Guide" in Portuguese?

[TETBURY MASSIVE]

http://www.bcfc.co.uk/news/article/city-to-face-braga-on-tour-2506161.aspx

 

 

Great! Not one match when I'm there... what a waste of time & money!

Same.... One is not amused!! 

[Strawberry2157.]

Same.... One is not amused!!

Villa v braga it is then! !

[TETBURY MASSIVE]

Villa v braga it is then! !

Braga play in red... so that's close enough.

 

Will have to give Sherwood loads.......

[Strawberry2157.]

Braga play in red... so that's close enough.

Will have to give Sherwood loads.......

You're on your own there, I'll be letching! I'm a girl and he's hot! ! :laugh:

[Olé]

[gamon]

I wonder if they fit the original "profile" and were carefully selected by the management team?

[cidered abroad]

Does anyone know where the Estadio Guia is?

Albufeira on the Algarve. (I think)