Baker and Moore

[Super]

Just wondering how they both looked today?

[Frenchay Red]

Didn't look too comfortable with the formation, but gradually improved, though not enough to stop the goals. Baker's a big lad, but struggled to work with Jo. Can't be a coincidence that Jo had a very quiet game. Thought he looked better when we went with more of a back 4 near the end. Moore came off for Williams who went to LB, Baker and Flint were the 2 CBS and Ayling dropped back to RB.

Too late by then though.

[BCFC Jordan]

Both didn't seem to suit the 3-5-2. Williams and Ayling complimented Flint because they could bring the ball out, but from what I saw today, the passing game didn't suit either so we just had a flat back three that was a bit too rigid. Moore wasn't too impressive but it was a difficult game to come into for him, especially as he was on Gray's side.

 

Hopefully it's just a matter of settling in but they've just had two weeks of an international break training together, so a tad worrying.

[DaveF]

They were just turds out there, they couldn't run, they couldn't kick... They were just turds...

[Aaron-Bcfc]

Baker was horribly out of position. Thought Moore was ok.

[JoeAman08]

First game with 2/3 of the back line being changed. Was always going to be difficult and it showed. Settled down in the second half though.

i don't think you can read too much into the performance today. It was 2 new CBs and a new RWB. It's done now and they need to be better as they play Tuesday night in Preston and then again Saturday against a team that put 5 up on a usually solid Ipswich. 

[Slippin cider]

They were just turds out there, they couldn't run, they couldn't kick... They were just turds...

i do wish you wouldn't mince your words :laugh:

[otib118]

Everyone saying that Baker and Moore need to learn each others games need to remember they've played England U21's together as a partnership

[DaveF]

Everyone saying that Baker and Moore need to learn each others games need to remember they've played England U21's together as a partnership.

 

Have they? ...Jesus Christ

[Alf]

Both are clearly good players, just not sure how they effective they will be in Cott's preferred system?

[Chappers]

They were just turds out there, they couldn't run, they couldn't kick... They were just turds...

In Football speak, both had a difficult debut and will be working hard on the training ground to improve the understanding across the back line.

[citywest30]

Everyone saying that Baker and Moore need to learn each others games need to remember they've played England U21's together as a partnership

But not with Flint in between. I don't think it matters if they've played together before, what matters is the defensive unit they're playing in now and I include the gk, wingback and defensive midfielders. That will take time to gel and for relationships to be built.

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

Everyone saying that Baker and Moore need to learn each others games need to remember they've played England U21's together as a partnership

Good point except Nathan Baker only ever played three timea for U21s and the last time was 2013 .Not quite sure if this qualifies as a partnership- more a brief encounter.

[Kibs]

Was a massive gamble throwing Fielding, Baker and Moore in to play together for the first time.

 

 

[Northern Red]

Players struggling in formation they aren't used to playing shocker...

 

We saw this with Tavernier last season. It took a bit of time before he looked settled. 

[Selred]

Was a massive gamble throwing Fielding, Baker and Moore in to play together for the first time.

 

 

I thought the same. Thought Hamer may start as he's played with Moore before and Fielding is only just back. 

[Pickle Rick]

Both didn't seem to suit the 3-5-2. Williams and Ayling complimented Flint because they could bring the ball out, but from what I saw today, the passing game didn't suit either so we just had a flat back three that was a bit too rigid. Moore wasn't too impressive but it was a difficult game to come into for him, especially as he was on Gray's side.

 

Hopefully it's just a matter of settling in but they've just had two weeks of an international break training together, so a tad worrying.

This.

 

Not complimenting our 'doubled up' wing backs made it difficult to press forward. Ayling had to wonder in to find someone to link up with and Bryan worked his ass off to do well enough in the end.

 

I've said it a few times already, moving forward, it'll have to be 4 at the back in this league. Until/unless we have the quality of a team like Watford did, we aren't good enough to play with a back 3.

[DT The Optimist]

Was at the game, like most posters on this thread.  I was not particularly impressed with either performance but in all fairness first game and all that.

 

I note the remarks from the Brum manager when interviewed  (that can be found on the BBC report of the game) when he describes both players ,(Moore and Baker) as  good but not had much game time and they wanted to exploit that.  He states they did so by pushing onto them.  I thought that was quite fair assessment ?

 

I would if i was Williams have felt slightly aggrieved at being left out.  He looks so much more 'comfortable' on the left of a 3 ?   The debate will rage on here about the way we play.  Cotts has set out a method and a style that he does want to deviate from.  We are having loads of the ball, 60% yesterday, but lost.

 

At the end of this month, if we still only have 4 or 5 points  or around that mark, i wonder what will happen.  Stick or twist 

[Healeyred96]

I said on Friday that baker would struggle in a back 3 

[Lack of Action Man]

Baker and Flint looked at fault for goals one and two - lost their men far too easily. 

Moore seemed the more comfortable of the new recruits, but they are both very different centre backs to Williams and Ayling. As others have alluded to they seem to prefer the rigidity that a back four offers, rather than the flex and stretch a back three can involve. 

[formerly known as ivan]

Haven't seen the goals from yesterday yet but I still believe the issue is more to do with the cover in front of the defence.

I also still believe the answer to this is playing Ayling in front of the back three. Unfortunately I can't see Cotts going with this.

[Lack of Action Man]

Having rewatched the highlights on goals on sunday, all three centre backs looked at fault for the first goal. Moore allowed the cross far too easily, Baker failed to recognise the danger at the back post and Flint was no where near Donaldson.

[ten minutes of rough]

Not as if the coaches haven't had enough time to figure out what's wrong, look at the -gd if nothing else 14!! at this rate we will have conceded 100 goals come May. Cotts said when he brought these two in it would 'compliment' the 3-5-2 system....what?  Obviously we are getting found out, nothing wrong with other aspects of our game, just the powder puff defending.

Need to go 4-4-2 asap

[samo II]

Need to go 4-4-2 asap

I just not sure we have the resources for it.

Williams is not a natural left back, nor is Baker, and putting Bryan back there isn't using him to his maximum potential.

Equally; we've a few options at right back, but not many at right wing - Little and Agard perhaps, but neither is a natural right midfielder.

Not rubbishing the idea at all, just worried we'd end up playing with lots of round-ish pegs in square holes, and though it might take some time, once Baker and Moore settle, this system will work well.

[Major Isewater]

First game with 2/3 of the back line being changed. Was always going to be difficult and it showed. Settled down in the second half though.

i don't think you can read too much into the performance today. It was 2 new CBs and a new RWB. It's done now and they need to be better as they play Tuesday night in Preston and then again Saturday against a team that put 5 up on a usually solid Ipswich. 

I am surprised that Ayling was moved out to accomodate Moore ,i would ,initially have put him at RWB keeping 2/3 of the back three stable for a while . Too much change all at once is not good for an understanding in the defence.

Baker is supposed to be used to this formation.

[Lack of Action Man]

I thought the same. Thought Hamer may start as he's played with Moore before and Fielding is only just back. 

I completely forgot about the Leicester connection. Now you mention it I am surprised Hamer didn't get the nod ahead of Fielding.

[View from the Dolman]

Liam Moore ‏@liammoore93: 1 minute agoSo proud to announce my beautiful baby girl Milah Monroe Moore was born last night at 21:14 the most amazing, surreal moment of my life!

Might have been slightly distracting if you knew this was imminent however much you try to focus.

[ashtonphil]

Liam Moore ‏@liammoore93: 1 minute agoSo proud to announce my beautiful baby girl Milah Monroe Moore was born last night at 21:14 the most amazing, surreal moment of my life!

Might have been slightly distracting if you knew this was imminent however much you try to focus.

Maybe  that's why he was  substituted to get to the birth on time as I would have taken Baker off instead of him

[JoeAman08]

I am surprised that Ayling was moved out to accomodate Moore ,i would ,initially have put him at RWB keeping 2/3 of the back three stable for a while . Too much change all at once is not good for an understanding in the defence.

Baker is supposed to be used to this formation.

yea Moore can play out there but maybe an agreement with Leicester about where he plays? I would've kept Hamer in as well but think Frank is always first choice when fit so maybe it's a case of throw him in now so everyone can gel as quick as possible. 

 

Its to tough but if this is going to be the team going forward then may as well take our lumps and solve it. Problem is not much training with playing yesterday and a game Tuesday with travel in there as well. Hopefully they get a good understanding of each other in Preston 

[The Bard]

Too much focus on the new players I think.  Bryan was nowhere to be seen for the first goal.  As their manager intimated, they pushed Cotterill and Gray on.  We were more solid down our right with Ayling being more alert defensively, being back to double up. On our left, their was a chasm between Baker and Bryan. Baker was left exposed too much. 

Main explanation for Moore being hooked must-have been the booking he received it would've made Cotts' mind  up. I thought he looked decent. A better player than Baker certainly. 

 

Unlike others, think we do have the players for a back four. Either we swap to it or get our wing backs closer to the back 3.  Maybe change to 3 4 3.  

 

Wilbs has been a great signing but his lack of mobility is telling at this level. I'd like to see Kodjia as the sole central striker with others playing wide. Likes of Burns, Agard, Robinson, Freeman, Reid. This will help defensively especially against sides that play 4 3 3 as their full backs get loads of space.