madmax Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 Not sure if this has been posted, sorry if it has, but what is the point of our Academy? I once read a comment by Laycock saying something along the lines that the Academy is set up to bring the best out of youth players who will go onto to play for Bristol City and could carry a good fee if any clubs were interested in buying them (not word for word). If we remain in the lower leagues we may have to remain as a selling club. Now know the likes of Tommy D and Fortune hold a fee but, Hill, Carey, Coles have all come through our Academy or youth systems and can leave for free !! If this continues we are breeding young quality players for other clubs to just come along and take off our hands for nothing. It just seems a waste of time spending money on our Academy for other clubs. MM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edson Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 That's more the 'fault' of the Bosman ruling than the Academy though, surely. We paid one million pounds for Thorpe, paid him thousands a week and he left for nothing. We paid £600k for Peacock, paid him thousands a week and he looks to be leaving for nothing (in monetary terms). It could be argued that it's a waste of time spending money signing players, only for them to see out their contracts and move to other clubs. Hill and Coles can't leave the club for free, as they are under 24 (and Coles is under contract). That is one benefit of having talented, young players in our ranks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fRed Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 I can't help but think that the Bosman rule makes the academy not worthwhile, even though I like seeing the young players coming through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riaz Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 Whats the point? Steve Phillips Matt Hill Craig Woodman Danny Coles Louis Carey Clayton Fortune Aaron Brown Tommy Doherty Joe Burnell Leroy Lita Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerry Gows' Tash Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 Not sure if this has been posted, sorry if it has, but what is the point of our Academy? I once read a comment by Laycock saying something along the lines that the Academy is set up to bring the best out of youth players who will go onto to play for Bristol City and could carry a good fee if any clubs were interested in buying them (not word for word). If we remain in the lower leagues we may have to remain as a selling club. Now know the likes of Tommy D and Fortune hold a fee but, Hill, Carey, Coles have all come through our Academy or youth systems and can leave for free !! If this continues we are breeding young quality players for other clubs to just come along and take off our hands for nothing. It just seems a waste of time spending money on our Academy for other clubs. MM Agree that the academy has been undermined as an income generator by Bosman ruling, but surely the main point of it is to provide potential first team players without us having to splash out in the transfer market. I think about 6 of last years first team were academy products. I think we should keep it - all sucesfull clubs have a development scheme - clubs that don't seem to flounder, just look at the gas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchred Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 Whats the point? Steve Phillips Matt Hill Craig Woodman Danny Coles Louis Carey Clayton Fortune Aaron Brown Tommy Doherty Joe Burnell Leroy Lita You sure about all those names Phillips was signed from non-league Brown, Doherty, Carey and Burnell were pre acadamy days I think. Fortune we got from Tottenham via the exit trials I believe. That only leaves, Hill and Coles (Not sure), Woodman and Lita just breaking through Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beezey Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 But we wouldnt be at the exit trials without the academy though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchred Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 But we wouldnt be at the exit trials without the academy though True. I wasn't having a go or a moan, I actually believe the acadamy is the way forward. I was just highlighting the fact that the established younger players such as Doherty etc were not part of it. I just hope it catches the talent in the area, a few years back if you looked around the premiership there were 5 or 6 Bristolians in there. We need that talent!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bristollionheart Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 Brown, Doherty, Carey and Burnell were pre acadamy days I think. Wrong. Burnell and Brown are academy products (duh!), as are Hill and Coles (duh!). Not to mention Amankwaah and Woodman. Lita formerly played for Chelsea before we captured him at the exit trials, and Fortune Tottenham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sephjnr Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 Why not just extend the "graduate contracts" beyond the Bosman scope? There is an age cap to the ruling, right? /simple solutions~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bow_Legged_Chicken Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 Don't quote me on this one, but i think we only pay a very minimal amount towards the academy. most of the academy costs are covered through sponserships and grants. What we mainly pay is wages. One day what if we stumble across the Rooney, we would be laughing. maybe we wouldn't get quite as much as a premiership club would if they had him but sure we could get a lot plus sell on clauses. The academy has laid great foundations for our squad today I don't think Wilson liked it that much at all though and many of a very good recent prospects have been wasted. With Tins in charge I'm sure he will make full use of it and any player with potential will be given a fair chance before any player is brought in. Without slagging off Miller etc i would like to say Marvin could/would have been as good as him if not better and we wouldn't of had to pay for him. We have got some great players in our academy at the moment in Anyinsah, Harley, Loxton, Hawkins, Simpson and mcguire who have caught my eye expecially. maybe not all of them will make it to play first team football for us but I'm sure at least 2 or 3 will along with Fortune and Lita. Even if only 2 of all of these make it regular first team football its a result as the other few will make good squad players and the basis of a good squad is almost as important as having a good first team. i would also like to say that our fantastic youth policy and academy is probaly what interested Gillespie about us so much. We should look to our academy more often and that was just one of the things that I used to have a go at Danny for. Why buy good youth players when you got perfectly good ones already? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchred Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 Wrong. Burnell and Brown are academy products (duh!), as are Hill and Coles (duh!). Not to mention Amankwaah and Woodman. Lita formerly played for Chelsea before we captured him at the exit trials, and Fortune Tottenham. Very well explained you obnoxious ######. Still dont agree with you on Brown, he was ages before the acadamy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bristollionheart Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 I don't think he was, sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchred Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 I don't think he was, sorry. Se the other thread titled 'The Academy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beezey Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 Both Browns were at the club before we had "Academy" status. I think an Academy is only as good as the first team manager will allow it to be. For instance if this season 2 Academy players come into the first team then surely that has to be deemed as a good thing ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedUn Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 Still dont agree with you on Brown, he was ages before the acadamy Aaron Brown was a final year U/19 in the first season of the academy (1998/99), along with Andrew Jordan, Alex Meechan and Ben Wright who also made first team appearances from that year. It is a pity our oldest graduate feels the need to depart and to think we won't see the best of him because of the continuing failures of our older players to come up to the required standard for promotion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bristollionheart Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 Damien Spencer played quite a few first-team games, he was an academy product, there are loads more who broke into the first-team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchred Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 Damien Spencer played quite a few first-team games, he was an academy product, there are loads more who broke into the first-team. But none to date have played any higher than Division 2, which begs the questions 1) Is the talent really there 2) Is the coaching up to scratch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bristollionheart Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 Aaron Brown and Matt Hill have played in Division One (1998/99) and looked good, they'd all be playing in Division One if we got promoted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchred Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 Aaron Brown and Matt Hill have played in Division One (1998/99) and looked good, they'd all be playing in Division One if we got promoted Which is exactly my point! Are they good enough to get us there, at the moment no, They had one season at that level and got relegated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bristollionheart Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 Aaron Brown and Matt Hill single-handedly got us relegated did they? Actually, we played good with them in the side if I remember rightly (especially Brown), Benny brough them into the side, I remember Hill played left wing-back with Brown in central midfield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bristollionheart Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 Are they good enough to get us there, at the moment no They proved last season that they were good enough to get us into Division One, all that kept us down was a lot of incidents of bad luck throughout the season, we were a single point away from automatic promotion, we are now odds-on favourites to win the title, so we'll see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedUn Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 Which is exactly my point! Are they good enough to get us there, at the moment no, So what do you make of the fact that the it is the academy programme that has provided the nucleus of a defence that only conceded 37 goals in 46 matches? (which with a half-way competent attack should have been more than good enough for promotion) And don't you think it is the seniors who should be of sufficient quality to pull the youngsters through to promotion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchred Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 Aaron Brown and Matt Hill single-handedly got us relegated did they? Actually, we played good with them in the side if I remember rightly (especially Brown), Benny brough them into the side, I remember Hill played left wing-back with Brown in central midfield. No, Not single handedly but they were part of the team that got us relegated, they were also part of the team that did not get us promotion for the last 4 years!. That is not to lambast them but just to point to the fact that no academy players have been a success at the higher level. If they were they would not be with us now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchred Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 So what do you make of the fact that the it is the academy programme that has provided the nucleus of a defence that only conceded 37 goals in 46 matches? (which with a half-way competent attack should have been more than good enough for promotion) And don't you think it is the seniors who should be of sufficient quality to pull the youngsters through to promotion? Yes Yes Yes I agree with you. Mine was a response to an earlier post regarding how an academy can finance itself via player sales which ours has not. All I am saying is if a player is that good there would be speculation (A la Tommy) or he would not be here! Our players from the academy have done well at this level, but no-one knows yet if they could perform any higher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bristollionheart Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 Any higher, you mean Premiership? Because Division One isn't much different to Division Two. If we win the league we are a Division One side mate, there is nowhere else for us to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilksi Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 Yes Yes Yes I agree with you. Mine was a response to an earlier post regarding how an academy can finance itself via player sales which ours has not. All I am saying is if a player is that good there would be speculation (A la Tommy) or he would not be here! Our players from the academy have done well at this level, but no-one knows yet if they could perform any higher. The fact that so many of them over the years have been linked or had offers from bigger clubs has got to show you that they could perform at a higher level... I am positive the likes of Brown/Doc/Coles/Hill could perform week in week out in the 'Championship'.. There is no question about it.. And as to the comment that we are favourites with every bookie to win the league.. We were Favourites this time last year if I remember correctly... Dont count your chickens till their hatched!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bristollionheart Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 I think all of our players could play well in Division One, most of the players in the better sides in Division Two could play well in Division One. Get real. The likes of A.Brown, Colesy and Doc could shine more than others though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchred Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 The fact that so many of them over the years have been linked or had offers from bigger clubs has got to show you that they could perform at a higher level... I am positive the likes of Brown/Doc/Coles/Hill could perform week in week out in the 'Championship'.. There is no question about it.. And as to the comment that we are favourites with every bookie to win the league.. We were Favourites this time last year if I remember correctly... Dont count your chickens till their hatched!! I would say there is a very big question about it actually. Scott Murray was our best player by a country mile a few seasons ago and he couldn't hack it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchred Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 Any higher, you mean Premiership? Because Division One isn't much different to Division Two. If we win the league we are a Division One side mate, there is nowhere else for us to go. That is exactly the same mistake we made a few years ago, there is a massive difference between div's 1 and 2. Until we get there (When) we will not be in a position to judge how our players measure up to the 1st div. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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