Tomo Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 You can just tell from tonight's match thread (or lack of it - and let's not blame christmas parties) that the interest is diminishing fast, Of course, there will always be our hard-core of fans, but for those who enjoy the more glorious side of the game, their interest will quickly disappear as we struggle in this league, Let's not give up just yet - there are 25 games to go and we can make a claim and stay up (albeit it will probably go to the last couple of games of the season). We are up to 13k attendances and selling out each week as we build the monster west stand (which is shaping up lovely by t he way!) What does SL think at this time ? Jump ship and get a new manager to take on the average championship players on our books or take the risk and see it through with Cotts and survive by the skin of our teeth? It will be a MASSIVE BLOW if the ground is nice and pretty next season with a capacity of 27k and we struggle to get 10-12k in League 1.... What would you do in Mr Lansdown's Shoes ? I would stick rather than twist - afterall we know Cotts can do a job in League 1 but will hopefully have enough to keep us up, whereas any new appointment may just take us down and struggle like previous managers! It took us 9 seasons previously to get back to Tier 2 whilst under Cotts we were back in 2 seasons! I think we can stay up - Bolton are already down (once the points deduction kicks in) so we are looking at 2 out of 5 scrapping for survival... Stick ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevedon Red Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 We might find out Saturday when he talks to 20man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC Jordan Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 Hopefully he's thinking that the board are far more at fault than SC for our current plight. And that sacking the manager would be absolutely pointless and short-sighted as the board let our most successful manager in years down, in the summer after he led us to 99 points and two trophies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taz Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 As much as I like Cotts, results speak volumes in this game. As you say a nice 27k stadium in league one..... The way I see it, SL has two options: 1 - Publically back SC before the weekend as well as making sure that the money is spent in recruitment in January (always going to be pricey) 2 - Get a new man in ASAP so that he can assess the squad and get the players in in January. Either way the wallet HAS to come out. I think that if all is quiet on the news front leading up to the weekend, then SC is on borrowed time. Relegation is simply not an option, especially from SL'S point of view. It's going to be an interesting week or so at Ashton Gate leading up to Christmas. A home thumping by QPR I think would be the final nail in the coffin. Damage limitation if you like. That is of course if we have a manager by then..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolcitysweden Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 I would sack Steve Cotterill, appoint Lars Lagerbäck and get an advisor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashton_fan Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 I think Cotts was saving Kodjia, Wilbs etc for the two home games, we were unlikely to get much at Derby so why compromise two games which we can definitely win? Also, he tried using 4-3-3 like so many on here had wanted so it's a bit unfair to ask for him to be sacked because it didn't work. We know from what's happened in the past that changing the manager at this time of the year only makes a difficult situation worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo Posted December 15, 2015 Author Share Posted December 15, 2015 Many people say that SL has splashed the cash but he is massively careful in view of his wealth (and what is spent probably benefits his tax position) - until that changes, we will continue to bounce around Tier 2 and 3 of the English game. In view of that business plan, I would be inclined to stick with Cotts. If SL has a different attitude to transfer fees and wages, then a higher profile manager may happen but I can't see SL changing his vision at this time. He was well aware that Ashton Gate would become a 27k fantastic stadium but has a policy and structure in place that will only deliver a 2nd or 3rd rate football league side in Bristol (at the moment anyway!), Word - Frustrated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mightyreds89 Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 I think you'll find that Cotts is more to blame than you think. Firstly setting us up wrong against top team like tonight we should be competing not loosing by 4, a 1/2-0 or a 2-1 not getting undone. Added to to the fact that the summer non signings were as much to do with the players not coming to play for Cotts as much as it was the cash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youwhat Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 SL talking about running a tight ship and how pricey everything is and whether the club can afford it. What was the budget over summer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Red Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 4 minutes ago, ashton_fan said: I think Cotts was saving Kodjia, Wilbs etc for the two home games, we were unlikely to get much at Derby so why compromise two games which we can definitely win? Maybe you're right. Wouldn't suprise me if he did the same at Burnley in a couple of weeks, though I'd appreciate if he'd tell us in advance so I can decide not to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolcitysweden Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 The club has been miserably runned for decades Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolcitysweden Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 I give up, For tonight The potential for improvement is immence.. c o y r ! ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screech Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 Which quality player will want to come to a team that are at the wrong end of the championship? It's not going to matter what money you throw at it, players will not want to risk a relegation. The time to recruit was before the season started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo Posted December 15, 2015 Author Share Posted December 15, 2015 2 minutes ago, bristolcitysweden said: The club has been miserably runned for decades That is a tad unfair in view of progression at last with the stadium etc although I will agree that there has been some shocking appointments of managers, since GJ! Coppell (the board should have read the script) Millen (cheap option) Mcciness (another cheap option) O'dismall (unlucky) Cotts (got it right in view of the business plan in terms of monetary spend on transfers and wages) All this equates to us remaining a Tier 2 or Tier 3 Football Club! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephenkibby. Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 22 minutes ago, tomo said: You can just tell from tonight's match thread (or lack of it - and let's not blame christmas parties) that the interest is diminishing fast, Of course, there will always be our hard-core of fans, but for those who enjoy the more glorious side of the game, their interest will quickly disappear as we struggle in this league, Let's not give up just yet - there are 25 games to go and we can make a claim and stay up (albeit it will probably go to the last couple of games of the season). We are up to 13k attendances and selling out each week as we build the monster west stand (which is shaping up lovely by t he way!) What does SL think at this time ? Jump ship and get a new manager to take on the average championship players on our books or take the risk and see it through with Cotts and survive by the skin of our teeth? It will be a MASSIVE BLOW if the ground is nice and pretty next season with a capacity of 27k and we struggle to get 10-12k in League 1.... What would you do in Mr Lansdown's Shoes ? I would stick rather than twist - afterall we know Cotts can do a job in League 1 but will hopefully have enough to keep us up, whereas any new appointment may just take us down and struggle like previous managers! It took us 9 seasons previously to get back to Tier 2 whilst under Cotts we were back in 2 seasons! I think we can stay up - Bolton are already down (once the points deduction kicks in) so we are looking at 2 out of 5 scrapping for survival... Stick ? Please tomo to cheer me up give some examples of managers that have taken a team up,down then up again? Apart from that knob fergi junior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo Posted December 15, 2015 Author Share Posted December 15, 2015 3 minutes ago, screech said: Which quality player will want to come to a team that are at the wrong end of the championship? It's not going to matter what money you throw at it, players will not want to risk a relegation. The time to recruit was before the season started. Agree - but we won't meet the wage demands mate which is why no transfer target would come to us anyway! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebristolred Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 2 minutes ago, tomo said: That is a tad unfair in view of progression at last with the stadium etc although I will agree that there has been some shocking appointments of managers, since GJ!Coppell (the board should have read the script) Millen (cheap option) Mcciness (another cheap option) O'dismall (unlucky) Cotts (got it right in view of the business plan in terms of monetary spend on transfers and wages) All this equates to us remaining a Tier 2 or Tier 3 Football Club! In fairness of those I'd argue that only Millen was the wrong choice at the time. No one could have predicted the outcome with Coppell, McInnes was very highly rated and sought after, and SoD by all accounts is a very clever football man who had a relatively good record. Until he was dog**** here of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeepUpLino Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 14 minutes ago, tomo said: Many people say that SL has splashed the cash but he is massively careful in view of his wealth (and what is spent probably benefits his tax position) - until that changes, we will continue to bounce around Tier 2 and 3 of the English game. In view of that business plan, I would be inclined to stick with Cotts. If SL has a different attitude to transfer fees and wages, then a higher profile manager may happen but I can't see SL changing his vision at this time. He was well aware that Ashton Gate would become a 27k fantastic stadium but has a policy and structure in place that will only deliver a 2nd or 3rd rate football league side in Bristol (at the moment anyway!), Word - Frustrated! The only way is to appoint a big name and give him the funds to match our ambition, this is the only way to attract better players in Jan... This won't happen though and we'll struggle on... I suspect Cotterill will walk after another Dire transfer window, then we really will be in the ******* shit!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo Posted December 15, 2015 Author Share Posted December 15, 2015 10 minutes ago, stephenkibby. said: Please tomo to cheer me up give some examples of managers that have taken a team up,down then up again? Apart from that knob fergi junior. If we continue to have the same business plan (well SL's current business plan) why change the manager again. He has been wasting money hiring and firing managers for the last 8 years! Bizarrely the cheap option ends up being an expensive one every time! Until SL decides to change his attitude and business risks on transfers and wages, there is little point appointing another manager when we have a manager that can clearly jump between tiers 2 and 3! Don't get me wrong, I don't want us to end up in £172 million in debt like Bolton, so I have accepted (aged 45 this month) that our history as a tier 2/3 club will continue to be our future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC Jordan Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 9 minutes ago, nebristolred said: In fairness of those I'd argue that only Millen was the wrong choice at the time. No one could have predicted the outcome with Coppell, McInnes was very highly rated and sought after, and SoD by all accounts is a very clever football man who had a relatively good record. Until he was dog**** here of course. Millen and McInnes both had important targets that the club didn't back them in bringing in. SOD had hardly any money to spend, it took weeks for us to agree compensation with Cheltenham for Pack, as we had so little to spend. This summer SC wasn't backed. It may seem like prudency but it resulted in our relegation last time and looks like it could very well do so again. Managers come and go, but always seem to be the fall guy at City, instead of those above them. I love SL but it's just repeating the same mistakes again and again. It seems backing the manager like last summer was an anomaly, not the norm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebristolred Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 1 minute ago, BCFC Jordan said: Millen and McInnes both had important targets that the club didn't back them in bringing in. SOD had hardly any money to spend, it took weeks for us to agree compensation with Cheltenham for Pack, as we had so little to spend. This summer SC wasn't backed. It may seem like prudency but it resulted in our relegation last time and looks like it could very well do so again. Managers come and go, but always seem to be the fall guy at City. I disagree. I mean I agree with the sentiment, I'm not one to blame the managers like people do on here, but I think our spending over the past 6/7 years has been anything but prudent. Yes in the SoD reign we were super-tight on spending but that was because of the dire situation we had ourselves in with certain players on astronomical wages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron-Bcfc Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 1 minute ago, BCFC Jordan said: Millen and McInnes both had important targets that the club didn't back them in bringing in. SOD had hardly any money to spend, it took weeks for us to agree compensation with Cheltenham for Pack, as we had so little to spend. This summer SC wasn't backed. It may seem like prudency but it resulted in our relegation last time and looks like it could very well do so again. Managers come and go, but always seem to be the fall guy at City. Am I not right in thinking that SO'D had nothing, or very little to do with our transfers that summer? He made it publicly known that he wouldn't have paid that for Flint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebristolred Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 2 minutes ago, Aaron-Bcfc said: Am I not right in thinking that SO'D had nothing, or very little to do with our transfers that summer? He made it publicly known that he wouldn't have paid that for Flint I think you're along the right lines. I'm pretty sure SoD brought in Keith Burt who would have negotiated the transfers, but there's no doubt about it, the signing itself (i.e. who it is, forgetting the fee) would have had to be signed off by SoD before it was done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 26 minutes ago, Taz said: As much as I like Cotts, results speak volumes in this game. As you say a nice 27k stadium in league one..... The way I see it, SL has two options: 1 - Publically back SC before the weekend as well as making sure that the money is spent in recruitment in January (always going to be pricey) 2 - Get a new man in ASAP so that he can assess the squad and get the players in in January. Either way the wallet HAS to come out. I think that if all is quiet on the news front leading up to the weekend, then SC is on borrowed time. Relegation is simply not an option, especially from SL'S point of view. It's going to be an interesting week or so at Ashton Gate leading up to Christmas. A home thumping by QPR I think would be the final nail in the coffin. Damage limitation if you like. That is of course if we have a manager by then..... This is exactly what I've said recently and the worrying thing is I don't believe even if we sacked Cotterill tomorrow we'd have time for our new manager to make a solid assessment of the squad and bolster it well enough. For me we need to stick with Cotterill now until the end of the season, even if it means we go down, unless of course he has no intention of signing players or he has no players lined up. Simply put if Cotterill doesn't have 2-3 targets that he can realistically land in January then he needs to change his strategy or leave. It's hard saying that with all the great changes he made and what he achieved last season but results matter more than loyalty in the modern game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC Jordan Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 2 minutes ago, Aaron-Bcfc said: Am I not right in thinking that SO'D had nothing, or very little to do with our transfers that summer? He made it publicly known that he wouldn't have paid that for Flint SOD brought in Burt, who has done well for the most part. Seemingly not backed in the summer. He disagreed with the fee for Flint, which not many would have gone against at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS4 on Tour... Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 42 minutes ago, tomo said: You can just tell from tonight's match thread (or lack of it - and let's not blame christmas parties) that the interest is diminishing fast, Of course, there will always be our hard-core of fans, but for those who enjoy the more glorious side of the game, their interest will quickly disappear as we struggle in this league, Let's not give up just yet - there are 25 games to go and we can make a claim and stay up (albeit it will probably go to the last couple of games of the season). We are up to 13k attendances and selling out each week as we build the monster west stand (which is shaping up lovely by t he way!) What does SL think at this time ? Jump ship and get a new manager to take on the average championship players on our books or take the risk and see it through with Cotts and survive by the skin of our teeth? It will be a MASSIVE BLOW if the ground is nice and pretty next season with a capacity of 27k and we struggle to get 10-12k in League 1.... What would you do in Mr Lansdown's Shoes ? I would stick rather than twist - afterall we know Cotts can do a job in League 1 but will hopefully have enough to keep us up, whereas any new appointment may just take us down and struggle like previous managers! It took us 9 seasons previously to get back to Tier 2 whilst under Cotts we were back in 2 seasons! I think we can stay up - Bolton are already down (once the points deduction kicks in) so we are looking at 2 out of 5 scrapping for survival... Stick ? "We are up to 13k attendances..." ?? We've had well over 13k at every home game this season... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youwhat Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 At the forest game SL said it's all about what the club can afford, so are we planning on living within our means? Is it just through good luck that SL is hoping to get to the PL? McInnes etc made mistakes but were having to dump wages/live within means when we were making losses. We spent on Kodjia/loans over summer. Was the 9M realistic? Was there definitely business to be done over summer or just see if the team that was riding high on top of L1 might do something? Dump another manager and go again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS4 on Tour... Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 Well that's a misleading thread title! Thought you were gonna tell us exactly what Steve was thinking about all this....oh well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo Posted December 15, 2015 Author Share Posted December 15, 2015 3 minutes ago, Aaron-Bcfc said: Am I not right in thinking that SO'D had nothing, or very little to do with our transfers that summer? He made it publicly known that he wouldn't have paid that for Flint Exactly that - SOD (although very boring) had zero money to spend really. The 5 pillars was it ? that concentrated on youth and no experience ! It must be a headache owning a football club! I don't dispute what Steve Lansdown has done, the very good and the very bad at times, but he will continue as our owner for the foreseable future, or is it Jon now ? (with a cautious attitude to risk which is bizarre in view of his massive wealth). It's regulary quoted that Steve has spent over 50 million but all that is tied up in businesses such as, Ashton Gate Ltd, BCFC Limited,, Bristol City Football Club Limted, Bristol City Holdings Limited so there has to be a tax relief from that spend from where he really made his millions at Hargreaves ? I don't really know so don't quote me as I am no accountant! Bizarrely though, Steve is not even a director of any of those companies now and resigned from all of the above companues back in 2011, probably the same time that he moved to Guernsey! On paper, he is not involved or owns nothing (as a director) from those companies that surround Bristol City! If you don't believe me visit....Company Check which is a website available to the public domain!https://companycheck.co.uk/director/914234088/MR-STEPHEN-PHILIP-LANSDOWN/summary All of the companies mentioned above which now also includes Bristol Sport only has 1 Lansdown as a director and that is Jon, Steve's son. This means nothing but it's interesting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo Posted December 15, 2015 Author Share Posted December 15, 2015 26 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said: "We are up to 13k attendances..." ?? We've had well over 13k at every home game this season... Sorry bud - typo - we enjoy 13k attendances as the stadium rebuilds! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Northski Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 We all knew that the club had blown all their good work in the summer transfer window when nothing happened, we needed a number of signings, we had only one, albeit a good one. The promises came, the promises went. Clearly the internal battles were won by those not prepared to break the wage structure and we ended the summer trying, all rather embarrassingly to sign premiership players on Div 1 salaries. As such, ever since then we have being playing catch up, panic loans, and a squad too small to really compete in a league that has clearly got a lot better since last time were were here a few years ago. The only chance of saving us has remained since Match 1 was blowing a load of cash in the Jan transfer window, unfortunately miracles didn't happen and due to our league position big money has now turned blowing mega money. No self respecting player will want to come to Ashton Gate with where we are in the league unless we promise them the payday to end all paydays. Kicking Cotts out in favour of another manager will only work if we promise them mega bucks to spend too. In essence it comes down to this, if SC tried to buy XYZ and SL or his Bristol Sporties didn't back him, then to sack him for not achieving what he needed to achieve is not entirely his fault, they shoulder as much responsibility for the situation we find ourselves in. If the board decide to give this one last throw of the dice and replace him, and furthermore, are prepared to back the new bloke with new money, then that's just plain hypocrisy, and much as I'd like a knight on a white charger to save us, it would be a bit shitty thing to do to SC after you admittidly tied his shoe laces together 4 months ago. On balance, I say stick, but help the bloke out by finally releasing the purse strings and give him a fair crack of the whip this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 It's been said many times, the lack of permanent recruitment has done us over this season if we stay up or get relegated. The club was on a crest of a wave and that is The time to sell the club to prospective signings... We have lost that impetus and with it any chance of signing players who are harder to attract. Now we are struggling, our scope for signings narrows. Huge bollock dropped by all concerned at the club during the summer. It's been done to death, but timing is everything, and as far as I am concerned we missed our time to push on. Now we are a low level championship club competing for scraps. We could have been so much more attractive for potential signing if we had acted at the right time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TV Tom Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 6 hours ago, ashton_fan said: I think Cotts was saving Kodjia, Wilbs etc for the two home games, we were unlikely to get much at Derby so why compromise two games which we can definitely win? Also, he tried using 4-3-3 like so many on here had wanted so it's a bit unfair to ask for him to be sacked because it didn't work. We know from what's happened in the past that changing the manager at this time of the year only makes a difficult situation worse. Ok, after the next 2 home games will he then revert back to last nights team as we have no chance of getting a result at Burnley on the 28th? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldstandrobin Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 8 hours ago, tomo said: If we continue to have the same business plan (well SL's current business plan) why change the manager again. He has been wasting money hiring and firing managers for the last 8 years! Bizarrely the cheap option ends up being an expensive one every time! Until SL decides to change his attitude and business risks on transfers and wages, there is little point appointing another manager when we have a manager that can clearly jump between tiers 2 and 3! Don't get me wrong, I don't want us to end up in £172 million in debt like Bolton, so I have accepted (aged 45 this month) that our history as a tier 2/3 club will continue to be our future. tomo, I am 65 years old accepted this years ago, you have made a wise choice, your health will benefit from this choice as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashton_fan Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 9 hours ago, tomo said: Exactly that - SOD (although very boring) had zero money to spend really. The 5 pillars was it ? that concentrated on youth and no experience ! It must be a headache owning a football club! I don't dispute what Steve Lansdown has done, the very good and the very bad at times, but he will continue as our owner for the foreseable future, or is it Jon now ? (with a cautious attitude to risk which is bizarre in view of his massive wealth). It's regulary quoted that Steve has spent over 50 million but all that is tied up in businesses such as, Ashton Gate Ltd, BCFC Limited,, Bristol City Football Club Limted, Bristol City Holdings Limited so there has to be a tax relief from that spend from where he really made his millions at Hargreaves ? I don't really know so don't quote me as I am no accountant! Bizarrely though, Steve is not even a director of any of those companies now and resigned from all of the above companues back in 2011, probably the same time that he moved to Guernsey! On paper, he is not involved or owns nothing (as a director) from those companies that surround Bristol City! If you don't believe me visit....Company Check which is a website available to the public domain!https://companycheck.co.uk/director/914234088/MR-STEPHEN-PHILIP-LANSDOWN/summary All of the companies mentioned above which now also includes Bristol Sport only has 1 Lansdown as a director and that is Jon, Steve's son. This means nothing but it's interesting... I believe SL's planning ahead for when he's either not here or unable to run the business. That's also why he's trying to get the club in a position where it can run without relying on handouts because in reality that will happen one day. SL's about the same age as myself and you don't know what's around the corner, you could be here for another 20 or 30 years or you might not be here next week, he doesn't want to leave the club in the lurch with contracts it can't fulfil like happened in 1982 or more recently to Pompey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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