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Mr Lansdown's Own Thoughts...


Tomo

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You can just tell from tonight's match thread (or lack of it - and let's not blame christmas parties) that the interest is diminishing fast,

Of course, there will always be our hard-core of fans, but for those who enjoy the more glorious side of the game, their interest will quickly disappear as we struggle in this league,

Let's not give up just yet - there are 25 games to go and we can make a claim and stay up (albeit it will probably go to the last couple of games of the season). We are up to 13k attendances and selling out each week as we build the monster west stand (which is shaping up lovely by t he way!)

What does SL think at this time ?

Jump ship and get a new manager to take on the average championship players on our books or take the risk and see it through with Cotts and survive by the skin of our teeth?

It will be a MASSIVE BLOW if the ground is nice and pretty next season with a capacity of 27k and we struggle to get 10-12k in League 1....

What would you do in Mr Lansdown's Shoes ?

I would stick rather than twist - afterall we know Cotts can do a job in League 1 but will hopefully have enough to keep us up, whereas any new appointment may just take us down and struggle like previous managers!

It took us 9 seasons previously to get back to Tier 2 whilst under Cotts we were back in 2 seasons!

I think we can stay up - Bolton are already down (once the points deduction kicks in) so we are looking at 2 out of 5 scrapping for survival...

Stick ?

 

 

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Hopefully he's thinking that the board are far more at fault than SC for our current plight. And that sacking the manager would be absolutely pointless and short-sighted as the board let our most successful manager in years down, in the summer after he led us to 99 points and two trophies.

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As much as I like Cotts, results speak volumes in this game. As you say a nice 27k stadium in league one..... 

The way I see it, SL has two options:

1 - Publically back SC before the weekend as well as making sure that the money is spent in recruitment in January (always going to be pricey)

 

2 - Get a new man in ASAP so that he can assess the squad and get the players in in January.

 

Either way the wallet HAS to come out. I think that if all is quiet on the news front leading up to the weekend, then SC is on borrowed time.

 

Relegation is simply not an option, especially from SL'S point of view. It's going to be an interesting week or so at Ashton Gate leading up to Christmas. A home thumping by QPR I think would be the final nail in the coffin. Damage limitation if you like. That is of course if we have a manager by then.....

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I think Cotts was saving Kodjia, Wilbs etc for the two home games, we were unlikely to get much at Derby so why compromise two games which we can definitely win? Also, he tried using 4-3-3 like so many on here had wanted so it's a bit unfair to ask for him to be sacked because it didn't work. We know from what's happened in the past that changing the manager at this time of the year only makes a difficult situation worse.

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Many people say that SL has splashed the cash but he is massively careful in view of his wealth (and what is spent probably benefits his tax position) - until that changes, we will continue to bounce around Tier 2 and 3 of the English game. In view of that business plan, I would be inclined to stick with Cotts. If SL has a different attitude to transfer fees and wages, then a higher profile manager may happen but I can't see SL changing his vision at this time. 

He was well aware that Ashton Gate would become a 27k fantastic stadium but has a policy and structure in place that will only deliver a 2nd or 3rd rate football league side in Bristol (at the moment anyway!),

Word - Frustrated!

 

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I think you'll find that Cotts is more to blame than you think. 

Firstly setting us up wrong against top team like tonight we should be competing not loosing by 4, a 1/2-0 or a 2-1 not getting undone. 

 

Added to to the fact that the summer non signings were as much to do with the players not coming to play for Cotts as much as it was the cash. 

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4 minutes ago, ashton_fan said:

I think Cotts was saving Kodjia, Wilbs etc for the two home games, we were unlikely to get much at Derby so why compromise two games which we can definitely win?

Maybe you're right. Wouldn't suprise me if he did the same at Burnley in a couple of weeks, though I'd appreciate if he'd tell us in advance so I can decide not to go.

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2 minutes ago, bristolcitysweden said:

The club has been miserably runned for decades

That is a tad unfair in view of progression at last with the stadium etc although I will agree that there has been some shocking appointments of managers, since GJ!

Coppell (the board should have read the script)
Millen (cheap option)
Mcciness (another cheap option)
O'dismall (unlucky)

Cotts (got it right in view of the business plan in terms of monetary spend on transfers and wages)

All this equates to us remaining a Tier 2 or Tier 3 Football Club!

 

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22 minutes ago, tomo said:

You can just tell from tonight's match thread (or lack of it - and let's not blame christmas parties) that the interest is diminishing fast,

Of course, there will always be our hard-core of fans, but for those who enjoy the more glorious side of the game, their interest will quickly disappear as we struggle in this league,

Let's not give up just yet - there are 25 games to go and we can make a claim and stay up (albeit it will probably go to the last couple of games of the season). We are up to 13k attendances and selling out each week as we build the monster west stand (which is shaping up lovely by t he way!)

What does SL think at this time ?

Jump ship and get a new manager to take on the average championship players on our books or take the risk and see it through with Cotts and survive by the skin of our teeth?

It will be a MASSIVE BLOW if the ground is nice and pretty next season with a capacity of 27k and we struggle to get 10-12k in League 1....

What would you do in Mr Lansdown's Shoes ?

I would stick rather than twist - afterall we know Cotts can do a job in League 1 but will hopefully have enough to keep us up, whereas any new appointment may just take us down and struggle like previous managers!

It took us 9 seasons previously to get back to Tier 2 whilst under Cotts we were back in 2 seasons!

I think we can stay up - Bolton are already down (once the points deduction kicks in) so we are looking at 2 out of 5 scrapping for survival...

Stick ?

 

 

Please tomo to cheer me up give some examples of managers that have taken a team up,down then up again?

Apart from that knob fergi junior.

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3 minutes ago, screech said:

Which quality player will want to come to a team that are at the wrong end of the championship? It's not going to matter what money you throw at it, players will not want to risk a relegation.

The time to recruit was before the season started.

Agree - but we won't meet the wage demands mate which is why no transfer target would come to us anyway!

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2 minutes ago, tomo said:

That is a tad unfair in view of progression at last with the stadium etc although I will agree that there has been some shocking appointments of managers, since GJ!

Coppell (the board should have read the script)
Millen (cheap option)
Mcciness (another cheap option)
O'dismall (unlucky)


Cotts (got it right in view of the business plan in terms of monetary spend on transfers and wages)

All this equates to us remaining a Tier 2 or Tier 3 Football Club!

 

In fairness of those I'd argue that only Millen was the wrong choice at the time. No one could have predicted the outcome with Coppell, McInnes was very highly rated and sought after, and SoD by all accounts is a very clever football man who had a relatively good record. Until he was dog**** here of course.

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14 minutes ago, tomo said:

Many people say that SL has splashed the cash but he is massively careful in view of his wealth (and what is spent probably benefits his tax position) - until that changes, we will continue to bounce around Tier 2 and 3 of the English game. In view of that business plan, I would be inclined to stick with Cotts. If SL has a different attitude to transfer fees and wages, then a higher profile manager may happen but I can't see SL changing his vision at this time. 

He was well aware that Ashton Gate would become a 27k fantastic stadium but has a policy and structure in place that will only deliver a 2nd or 3rd rate football league side in Bristol (at the moment anyway!),

Word - Frustrated!

 

The only way is to appoint a big name and give him the funds to match our ambition, this is the only way to attract better players in Jan...

 This won't happen though and we'll struggle on... I suspect Cotterill will walk after another Dire transfer window, then we really will be in the ******* shit!!

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10 minutes ago, stephenkibby. said:

Please tomo to cheer me up give some examples of managers that have taken a team up,down then up again?

Apart from that knob fergi junior.

If we continue to have the same business plan (well SL's current business plan) why change the manager again. He has been wasting money hiring and firing managers for the last 8 years!

Bizarrely the cheap option ends up being an expensive one every time!

Until SL decides to change his attitude and business risks on transfers and wages, there is little point appointing another manager when we have a manager that can clearly jump between tiers 2 and 3!

Don't get me wrong, I don't want us to end up in £172 million in debt like Bolton, so I have accepted (aged 45 this month) that our history as a tier 2/3 club will continue to be our future.
 

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9 minutes ago, nebristolred said:

In fairness of those I'd argue that only Millen was the wrong choice at the time. No one could have predicted the outcome with Coppell, McInnes was very highly rated and sought after, and SoD by all accounts is a very clever football man who had a relatively good record. Until he was dog**** here of course.

 

Millen and McInnes both had important targets that the club didn't back them in bringing in. SOD had hardly any money to spend, it took weeks for us to agree compensation with Cheltenham for Pack, as we had so little to spend. This summer SC wasn't backed. It may seem like prudency but it resulted in our relegation last time and looks like it could very well do so again. Managers come and go, but always seem to be the fall guy at City, instead of those above them.

 

I love SL but it's just repeating the same mistakes again and again. It seems backing the manager like last summer was an anomaly, not the norm.

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1 minute ago, BCFC Jordan said:

 

Millen and McInnes both had important targets that the club didn't back them in bringing in. SOD had hardly any money to spend, it took weeks for us to agree compensation with Cheltenham for Pack, as we had so little to spend. This summer SC wasn't backed. It may seem like prudency but it resulted in our relegation last time and looks like it could very well do so again. Managers come and go, but always seem to be the fall guy at City.

I disagree. I mean I agree with the sentiment, I'm not one to blame the managers like people do on here, but I think our spending over the past 6/7 years has been anything but prudent. Yes in the SoD reign we were super-tight on spending but that was because of the dire situation we had ourselves in with certain players on astronomical wages.

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1 minute ago, BCFC Jordan said:

 

Millen and McInnes both had important targets that the club didn't back them in bringing in. SOD had hardly any money to spend, it took weeks for us to agree compensation with Cheltenham for Pack, as we had so little to spend. This summer SC wasn't backed. It may seem like prudency but it resulted in our relegation last time and looks like it could very well do so again. Managers come and go, but always seem to be the fall guy at City.

Am I not right in thinking that SO'D had nothing, or very little to do with our transfers that summer? He made it publicly known that he wouldn't have paid that for Flint

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2 minutes ago, Aaron-Bcfc said:

Am I not right in thinking that SO'D had nothing, or very little to do with our transfers that summer? He made it publicly known that he wouldn't have paid that for Flint

I think you're along the right lines. I'm pretty sure SoD brought in Keith Burt who would have negotiated the transfers, but there's no doubt about it, the signing itself (i.e. who it is, forgetting the fee) would have had to be signed off by SoD before it was done.

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26 minutes ago, Taz said:

As much as I like Cotts, results speak volumes in this game. As you say a nice 27k stadium in league one..... 

The way I see it, SL has two options:

1 - Publically back SC before the weekend as well as making sure that the money is spent in recruitment in January (always going to be pricey)

 

2 - Get a new man in ASAP so that he can assess the squad and get the players in in January.

 

Either way the wallet HAS to come out. I think that if all is quiet on the news front leading up to the weekend, then SC is on borrowed time.

 

Relegation is simply not an option, especially from SL'S point of view. It's going to be an interesting week or so at Ashton Gate leading up to Christmas. A home thumping by QPR I think would be the final nail in the coffin. Damage limitation if you like. That is of course if we have a manager by then.....

This is exactly what I've said recently and the worrying thing is I don't believe even if we sacked Cotterill tomorrow we'd have time for our new manager to make a solid assessment of the squad and bolster it well enough. For me we need to stick with Cotterill now until the end of the season, even if it means we go down, unless of course he has no intention of signing players or he has no players lined up.

Simply put if Cotterill doesn't have 2-3 targets that he can realistically land in January then he needs to change his strategy or leave. It's hard saying that with all the great changes he made and what he achieved last season but results matter more than loyalty in the modern game.

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2 minutes ago, Aaron-Bcfc said:

Am I not right in thinking that SO'D had nothing, or very little to do with our transfers that summer? He made it publicly known that he wouldn't have paid that for Flint

 

SOD brought in Burt, who has done well for the most part. Seemingly not backed in the summer. He disagreed with the fee for Flint, which not many would have gone against at the time.

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42 minutes ago, tomo said:

You can just tell from tonight's match thread (or lack of it - and let's not blame christmas parties) that the interest is diminishing fast,

Of course, there will always be our hard-core of fans, but for those who enjoy the more glorious side of the game, their interest will quickly disappear as we struggle in this league,

Let's not give up just yet - there are 25 games to go and we can make a claim and stay up (albeit it will probably go to the last couple of games of the season). We are up to 13k attendances and selling out each week as we build the monster west stand (which is shaping up lovely by t he way!)

What does SL think at this time ?

Jump ship and get a new manager to take on the average championship players on our books or take the risk and see it through with Cotts and survive by the skin of our teeth?

It will be a MASSIVE BLOW if the ground is nice and pretty next season with a capacity of 27k and we struggle to get 10-12k in League 1....

What would you do in Mr Lansdown's Shoes ?

I would stick rather than twist - afterall we know Cotts can do a job in League 1 but will hopefully have enough to keep us up, whereas any new appointment may just take us down and struggle like previous managers!

It took us 9 seasons previously to get back to Tier 2 whilst under Cotts we were back in 2 seasons!

I think we can stay up - Bolton are already down (once the points deduction kicks in) so we are looking at 2 out of 5 scrapping for survival...

Stick ?

 

 

"We are up to 13k attendances..." ??

We've had well over 13k at every home game this season...

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At the forest game SL said it's all about what the club can afford, so are we planning on living within our means?  Is it just through good luck that SL is hoping to get to the PL?

McInnes etc made mistakes but were having to dump wages/live within means when we were making losses.  

We spent on Kodjia/loans over summer.  Was the 9M realistic?  Was there definitely business to be done over summer or just see if the team that was riding high on top of L1 might do something?  

Dump another manager and go again?

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3 minutes ago, Aaron-Bcfc said:

Am I not right in thinking that SO'D had nothing, or very little to do with our transfers that summer? He made it publicly known that he wouldn't have paid that for Flint

Exactly that - SOD (although very boring) had zero money to spend really. The 5 pillars was it ? that concentrated on youth and no experience !

It must be a headache owning a football club! 

I don't dispute what Steve Lansdown has done, the very good and the very bad at times, but he will continue as our owner for the foreseable future, or is it Jon now ? (with a cautious attitude to risk which is bizarre in view of his massive wealth). It's regulary quoted that Steve has spent over 50 million but all that is tied up in businesses such as, Ashton Gate Ltd, BCFC Limited,, Bristol City Football Club Limted, Bristol City Holdings Limited so there has to be a tax relief from that spend from where he really made his millions at Hargreaves ? I don't really know so don't quote me as I am no accountant!

Bizarrely though, Steve is not even a director of any of those companies now and resigned from all of the above companues back in 2011, probably the same time that he moved to Guernsey!

On paper, he is not involved or owns nothing (as a director) from those companies that surround Bristol City!

If you don't believe me visit....Company Check which is a website available to the public domain!

https://companycheck.co.uk/director/914234088/MR-STEPHEN-PHILIP-LANSDOWN/summary

All of the companies mentioned above which now also includes Bristol Sport only has 1 Lansdown as a director and that is Jon, Steve's son.

This means nothing but it's interesting...

 

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