Guest cider city red 81 Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 Got some stick lately but thought he was class v qpr As were most others tbf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CotswoldRed Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 1 minute ago, cider city red 81 said: Got some stick lately but thought he was class v qpr As were most others tbf Many, many will disagree strongly, and already have. That's forums for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 He didn't cover himself in glory with their goal to be honest and neither did Ayling with the shot that hit the bar, but in this league it is those small margins that get punished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leroyfromthestart Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 He was our best midfielder for the first hour, broke up play better than anyone throughout the game including for our goal, brings discipline and strength to our midfield and uses the ball intelligently (going backwards or sideways isn't a bad thing). Admittedly the last half hour (bar his contribution to our goal) he was poor, but one thing I like about him is he doesn't shirk responsibility, he's willing to offer himself when others may hide. He played 2 or 3 straight long balls through to their keeper but on one occasion immediately after this he hit a quality volley out wide to Bennett who unfortunately miscontrolled the pass. Another thing I've noticed he does well is the basics either playing backwards/sideways or play the ball into channels if there aren't the options ahead of him. Not always does it come off 'in the eyes of the doubters', but what you have to appreciate is 9 times out of 10 that pass into the channel (that may look off target or to nobody) will put the opposition on the back foot requiring the covering centre back to play the ball out for a throw in/corner and that's if one of our forwards doesn't get to the ball first. He's not our greatest player, but he gives 100% and players like him will never be appreciated by the majority of 'experts'! For as long as he does the above and wears our shirt I'll support him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cider Queen Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 He was utter tripe in my opinion.. His passing was rubbish and he was too.slow in movement and thought.l, the sooner we can get a decent midfielder the better. He'll do a job as a squad player and due to his age he may come good but at the moment he's out of his league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 30 minutes ago, ojjy said: He was utter tripe in my opinion.. His passing was rubbish and he was too.slow in movement and thought.l, the sooner we can get a decent midfielder the better. He'll do a job as a squad player and due to his age he may come good but at the moment he's out of his league. He never ever hides no matter how the game is going. Admire him and crucial to us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDOXO Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 Do we have a new scape goat! Goody! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nomad Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 Agree with Leroy's comments. The most likely we have to thread a pass through to the front and his link up play often goes unnoticed. If the rest of our team ran into space as Pack does the player in possession would have better options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy082005 Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 Gives 100% and for that, I will never get on his back . All you can ever ask is for a player to give his all However, lets be brutally honest here. He is one of the major weak links in the team, and this is a position that should have been addressed in the summer. If we haven't addressed it by mid January, then Cotterill and Lansdown need shooting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanterne Rouge Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 22 minutes ago, REDOXO said: Do we have a new scape goat! Goody! But who will it be? Marlon`s put in a good shift as scapegoat for the first half of the season, it`s time for someone else to step up to the plate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeepUpLino Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 2 hours ago, cider city red 81 said: Got some stick lately but thought he was class v qpr As were most others tbf The only bloke who is class was Kodja... Different class Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brad blit Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 Had the same conversation with my dad on way home who thought Pack was best player on the pitch and could understand why he was always the scapegoat. To me he made some good headers & tackles/interceptions in the first 60min but faded out the game and his passing was poor. Korey Smith would be the first name on my teamsheet and despite not reaching the heights of last year I still believe Freeman can be a big part of any future success so still feel Pack is the player to replace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanterne Rouge Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 1 minute ago, brad blit said: Had the same conversation with my dad on way home who thought Pack was best player on the pitch and could understand why he was always the scapegoat. To me he made some good headers & tackles/interceptions in the first 60min but faded out the game and his passing was poor. Korey Smith would be the first name on my teamsheet and despite not reaching the heights of last year I still believe Freeman can be a big part of any future success so still feel Pack is the player to replace. Judging by some of the other posts on other threads Luke Ayling may be putting in a bid for the position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest I am the mole Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 Thought he was average to honest apart when he thought he could beat rob green from a free kick about 80 yards out! I like him but I do feel we need another option for when whoever in midfield is quite at it in the the last part of the match! Usually the last 10 mins which 20 mins to late if you ask me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanterne Rouge Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 I don`t think he did think that. It was more about making the point that JET was standing about a yard in front of the ball and he thought the ref would let him take it again because of it but he didn`t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Offside Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 Overall I thought Pack had a decent game yesterday. Like the rest of the team he seemed to have that extra bit of hunger and confidence that has perhaps been missing from some of our displays. We still need to strengthen the midfield in Jan, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarnzFM Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 Thought he was brilliant until about 65 minutes along with smith - then all of a sudden lost it and couldn't pass 5 yards, was bizzare Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cidered abroad Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 While we play 3-5-2, Pack does a good job aerially cutting out balls aimed at opposing strikers. He has limitations when he tries to go forward because he lacks pace and the ability to go past opponents. But never hides so gets my backing while he is in the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bemmyredjeff Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 17 minutes ago, BarnzFM said: Thought he was brilliant until about 65 minutes along with smith - then all of a sudden lost it and couldn't pass 5 yards, was bizzare Sorry, but if that was brilliant then it worryingly shows how some of you forum members expectations on level of performance has dropped so alarmingly this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GJS Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 3 hours ago, ojjy said: He was utter tripe in my opinion.. His passing was rubbish and he was too.slow in movement and thought.l, the sooner we can get a decent midfielder the better. He'll do a job as a squad player and due to his age he may come good but at the moment he's out of his league. Mental. i guess you havnt watched too many games in your lifetime? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 4 hours ago, ojjy said: He was utter tripe in my opinion.. His passing was rubbish and he was too.slow in movement and thought.l, the sooner we can get a decent midfielder the better. He'll do a job as a squad player and due to his age he may come good but at the moment he's out of his league. Thank god your not a football manager ...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chairman Mao Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 he's a decent backup ideally but nothing more, would be nice to have a sitting midfielder with a pass and some experience to go alongside smith, would probably be our most important january signing Paul Hartley of circa 09 would be ideal for example Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cider Queen Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 2 hours ago, GJS said: Mental. i guess you havnt watched too many games in your lifetime? 2 hours ago, GJS said: Mental. i guess you havnt watched too many games in your lifetime? 53 minutes ago, robin4ever said: Thank god your not a football manager ...... Cheers guys. First of all I've seen plenty of City midfielders in my 30 years of supporting City.. Trust me Pack wouldn't be in my top 10. Nope not a manager just a frustrated supporter who is fed up watching and out of form Pack not able to see the runs of Kodjia who with a simple through ball would be 1 on 1 time and again. As I say just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 Nothing against the lad but he needs replacing next month desperately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shelts Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 Quite simply hasn't got it at this level. A real tryer. One of the areas we need to address in January, decent last year but a whole different ball game this season as he and our unfortunate manager are finding out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS4 on Tour... Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 5 hours ago, REDOXO said: Do we have a new scape goat! Goody! Certainly not a new scapegoat - as threads on here from the start of the season demonstrate. I think he's doing a decent job but over to others... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shtanley Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 When we are having more possession than other teams he will be key. If he can attempt the tricky through balls to Kodjia like he attempts the diagonals then he could be a great player. Him and Smith really compliment each other. A 3rd centre mobile strong centre mid would be ideal as then all 3 can interchange depending on different scenarios. Pack's defensive work is underrated imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 23 minutes ago, ojjy said: frustrated supporter who is fed up watching and out of form Pack not able to see the runs of Kodjia who with a simple through ball would be 1 on 1 time and again. So, the worst culprit for this yesterday was Williams. Had a gloriously easy through ball to Kodjia who was between the centre halves and through on goal. Williams passed inside instead, we lost the ball, and 30 seconds later we were 1-0 down. I'm sure a lot of fans will somehow find a way to blame Pack for that though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoons Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 I'm not a pack basher but if any1 thinks he had a good/strong game yesterday they must be having a laugh. He was awful at derby, mis placed pass costing us a goal and against qpr his passing was awful. Set pieces he took were bang average. Having said all of that he has taken some unnecessary stick this season, my view is of the last two games not the whole season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cider Queen Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 24 minutes ago, Harry said: So, the worst culprit for this yesterday was Williams. Had a gloriously easy through ball to Kodjia who was between the centre halves and through on goal. Williams passed inside instead, we lost the ball, and 30 seconds later we were 1-0 down. I'm sure a lot of fans will somehow find a way to blame Pack for that though. Wouldn't disagree.. But every match Pack gets the ball.. JK starts his run then Pack bottles it and goes for a sideways pass. They could all do.with practicing that through ball as for once we've got a player making those moves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashton_fan Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 Look at the player ratings, Pack is our 4th best player after Smith, Flint and Kodjia: http://www.squawka.com/football-player-rankings#performance-score#player-stats#english-football-league-championship|season-2015/2016#bristol#all-player-positions#16#37#0#0#90#07/08/2015#20/12/2015#season#1#all-matches#total#desc#total As I've said before many people didn't used to rate Skuse yet Mick McArthey says he's his best player, sometimes the best aren't always the most spectacular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoons Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 23 minutes ago, ashton_fan said: Look at the player ratings, Pack is our 4th best player after Smith, Flint and Kodjia: http://www.squawka.com/football-player-rankings#performance-score#player-stats#english-football-league-championship|season-2015/2016#bristol#all-player-positions#16#37#0#0#90#07/08/2015#20/12/2015#season#1#all-matches#total#desc#total As I've said before many people didn't used to rate Skuse yet Mick McArthey says he's his best player, sometimes the best aren't always the most spectacular. I like pack but he's not In the same league as Cole skuse. I don't care what any stats say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cider-manc Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 28 minutes ago, ojjy said: Wouldn't disagree.. But every match Pack gets the ball.. JK starts his run then Pack bottles it and goes for a sideways pass. They could all do.with practicing that through ball as for once we've got a player making those moves. But I don't think that's it's packs job to play the through ball. His job is to tidy up and keep us ticking in midfield...occasionally playing it across field like a quarter back. I'm not saying that it isn't frustrating to see him not attempting the through ball... But in this team that is Smith and Freeman's role Imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 21 minutes ago, ojjy said: Wouldn't disagree.. But every match Pack gets the ball.. JK starts his run then Pack bottles it and goes for a sideways pass. They could all do.with practicing that through ball as for once we've got a player making those moves. I also wouldn't disagree, but it's not JUST Pack who is guilty of this. Fans just seem to pick up on it more when it's him. Same with sideways/backwards passing. Pack gets slammed for passing backwards, gets slammed for passing sideways and gets slammed for passing long. Seems he can't win. There were very audible moans yesterday when Smith passed 50 yards back to the keeper and when Bryan passed about 60 yards back to the keeper, yet it's Pack who receives the stick. All of our players make the same errors or decisions as Pack does but never do they receive vilification for their actions. Some slag Pack off for the loss of possession vs Derby midweek. I could probably pick fault with an individual for most of our goals against this season, and rarely is it Pack. That one was, yes. But, note how Smith ran into midfield with the ball and has forward runners either side of him but failed to release, instead checking back and playing sideways which then put Pack under immediate pressure. Had Pack taken the same action Smith did in that instance there'd be outrage!! Watch that 2nd Derby goal again and tell me if that was Pack who failed to release either of those runners that you don't honestly believe he'd have copped a load on here. I guarantee it would've, but not a word against Korey. As I mentioned earlier, Pack was far from his best yesterday but he has played an important role this season which is highly undervalued by a lot of supporters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lew-T Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 29 minutes ago, Harry said: I also wouldn't disagree, but it's not JUST Pack who is guilty of this. Fans just seem to pick up on it more when it's him. Same with sideways/backwards passing. Pack gets slammed for passing backwards, gets slammed for passing sideways and gets slammed for passing long. Seems he can't win. There were very audible moans yesterday when Smith passed 50 yards back to the keeper and when Bryan passed about 60 yards back to the keeper, yet it's Pack who receives the stick. All of our players make the same errors or decisions as Pack does but never do they receive vilification for their actions. Some slag Pack off for the loss of possession vs Derby midweek. I could probably pick fault with an individual for most of our goals against this season, and rarely is it Pack. That one was, yes. But, note how Smith ran into midfield with the ball and has forward runners either side of him but failed to release, instead checking back and playing sideways which then put Pack under immediate pressure. Had Pack taken the same action Smith did in that instance there'd be outrage!! Watch that 2nd Derby goal again and tell me if that was Pack who failed to release either of those runners that you don't honestly believe he'd have copped a load on here. I guarantee it would've, but not a word against Korey. As I mentioned earlier, Pack was far from his best yesterday but he has played an important role this season which is highly undervalued by a lot of supporters. Do you rate Pack higher than Smith? Just out of curiosity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 2 minutes ago, Lew-T said: Do you rate Pack higher than Smith? Just out of curiosity. Hey Lew. They're 2 totally different players. I think Smith is great at a lot of things and deservedly gets a lot of praise. I think they compliment each other well in the system we play. If we played 4-4-2 then I'd probably have Korey in there instead of Marlon. In the current system though, it's Pack who predominantly holds back, with Smith the more free-running box to box type, and by that rationale it's Smith who ought to chip in more goals and assists (another thing levelled unfairly at Pack, given his predominance to staying back in his required role). Straight answer to your question though. Yes, Smith is probably the better player all round, but Pack gets unnecessary criticism and is not as weak a link as a lot of folk make out. Smith, as good as he is, still needs to add a number of things to his game and shouldn't be beyond criticism - but whenever the midfield seem to be at fault it's never levelled at Smith, always Pack, and it's not always that way. Just want some fairness of opinion/critique really, I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marina's Rolls Royce Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 12 minutes ago, Lew-T said: Do you rate Pack higher than Smith? Just out of curiosity. TBF- I don't believe that was Harry's point. Marlon attracts an undue share of criticism. He's jolly unspectacular but in the whole- quietly proficient.Bearing in mind he was playing basement football two seasons ago and his age, I think he's done ok. Could we do better at this level? Yes, of course, but that could be said about a number of our squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lew-T Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 1 minute ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said: TBF- I don't believe that was Harry's point. Marlon attracts an undue share of criticism. He's jolly unspectacular but in the whole- quietly proficient.Bearing in mind he was playing basement football two seasons ago and his age, I think he's done ok. Could we do better at this level? Yes, of course, but that could be said about a number of our squad. Like I said, it was just out of curiosity. He rates Pack highly and I rate Smith very highly, just wanted his perspective of the two players. No harm done Look, he's a City player, he puts on that red shirt every week and he will have my full backing. I personally just find him frustrating sometimes because he has got it about him, but doesn't do it often enough and consistently enough at this level. In my opinion of course. But like you say, that can be said for majority of the squad this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shtanley Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 For Pack's style of play he's relatively young compared to most players who "sit" and spray the ball around. Unlike most players with his passing range his defensive capabilities are actually quite impressive, not on a par with Smith but Pack certainly wins a fair share of headers. He's never played at this level before so it's only natural he's not taken like a duck to water. I really like Smith and Pack together and once we've got a stronger team and are dominating possession and territory pack could really prove a useful player. He does need to be more confident with his passing(more through balls to Kodjia et al) but the fans slating him every time he misses a risky pass isn't helping. I think we definitely need another centre mid but Pack and Smith as a pair really have promise IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob k Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 I'd like to know from the fans that think Pack is poor as to what Midfielders in this division they are using as a comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRISTOL86 Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 7 hours ago, Harry said: I also wouldn't disagree, but it's not JUST Pack who is guilty of this. Fans just seem to pick up on it more when it's him. Same with sideways/backwards passing. Pack gets slammed for passing backwards, gets slammed for passing sideways and gets slammed for passing long. Seems he can't win. There were very audible moans yesterday when Smith passed 50 yards back to the keeper and when Bryan passed about 60 yards back to the keeper, yet it's Pack who receives the stick. All of our players make the same errors or decisions as Pack does but never do they receive vilification for their actions. Some slag Pack off for the loss of possession vs Derby midweek. I could probably pick fault with an individual for most of our goals against this season, and rarely is it Pack. That one was, yes. But, note how Smith ran into midfield with the ball and has forward runners either side of him but failed to release, instead checking back and playing sideways which then put Pack under immediate pressure. Had Pack taken the same action Smith did in that instance there'd be outrage!! Watch that 2nd Derby goal again and tell me if that was Pack who failed to release either of those runners that you don't honestly believe he'd have copped a load on here. I guarantee it would've, but not a word against Korey. As I mentioned earlier, Pack was far from his best yesterday but he has played an important role this season which is highly undervalued by a lot of supporters. Nailed it. Pack didn't have his best game but we got a hard fought point against a vastly superior collection of players. Get a grip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samo II Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 Like others have said; it isn't 'bashing' him to suggest we need to strengthen the midfield. Is clearly drilled to furfil a specific function, that is to break up play and retain possession in that area in front of the defence; it isn't glamorous, but he sticks to that vigorously, and certainly applies himself. But as others have also indicated, he faded after about 60, and as I don't see that as his natural role (I actually see him as more of a forward-thinking player, if he were given license), he sometimes looks uncomfortable in it. That said; have articulated elsewhere that I think Freeman too is possibly in need of some competition currently, so for me it is a key area the club need to look at and add to this January, as we simply do not have the range of options I think we should. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old_eastender Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 15 hours ago, Andy082005 said: Gives 100% and for that, I will never get on his back . All you can ever ask is for a player to give his all However, lets be brutally honest here. He is one of the major weak links in the team, and this is a position that should have been addressed in the summer. If we haven't addressed it by mid January, then Cotterill and Lansdown need shooting. Agree. Lets be honest if we let Pack go, then I cannot imagine any other Championship clubs being interested, whereas there would be a queue of League 1 clubs up for him. That is his level, where his ability to provide aerial cover in front of the defence from hopeful punts forward is a real asset. At Championship level, where most clubs play the game on the floor, and quality midfielders move with pace and lay-off quick passes Pack is exposed. Once he loses a ball, opponents just run away from him with ease (e.g. Derby 2nd goal). He simply does not have the physical pace, or speed of thought, to become a quality Championship CM. Useful squad player maybe but for me, a replacement high energy box-to-box CM to replace Pack should be top priority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinmans Love Child Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 Personally I don't rate Pack at all, never have, I thought he was very poor v QPR, surprised to hear fans singing his praises on here, his passing was shocking at times and for me he is a liability who offers little, definitely central midfield is where we need to strengthen, Freeman and Smith were streets ahead of Pack. He might try hard or whatever but every player should try hard so that's hardly a positive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TETBURY MASSIVE Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 56 minutes ago, Tinmans Love Child said: Personally I don't rate Pack at all, never have, I thought he was very poor v QPR, surprised to hear fans singing his praises on here, his passing was shocking at times and for me he is a liability who offers little, definitely central midfield is where we need to strengthen, Freeman and Smith were streets ahead of Pack. He might try hard or whatever but every player should try hard so that's hardly a positive I'm guessing you were not at Derby? Because on Saturday he looked like messi compared to Tuesday night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cider-manc Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 4 hours ago, old_eastender said: Agree. Lets be honest if we let Pack go, then I cannot imagine any other Championship clubs being interested, whereas there would be a queue of League 1 clubs up for him. That is his level, where his ability to provide aerial cover in front of the defence from hopeful punts forward is a real asset. At Championship level, where most clubs play the game on the floor, and quality midfielders move with pace and lay-off quick passes Pack is exposed. Once he loses a ball, opponents just run away from him with ease (e.g. Derby 2nd goal). He simply does not have the physical pace, or speed of thought, to become a quality Championship CM. Useful squad player maybe but for me, a replacement high energy box-to-box CM to replace Pack should be top priority. But people were saying his level was league 2 at the beginning of last season. I'm not saying we shouldn't be looking to replace pack with someone better but I would say that as a football club we should be trying to do that with every player if we want to progress. I just find it bizarre that he gets as mich grief as he does when more often than not he does the unfashionable job asked of him . As mentioned above both Smith and Bryan played back passes to fielding from the half way line on Saturday... You can bet if that had been pack the venom directed at him would have been extreme. Pack was brilliant at Ipswich and despite this a guy stood just behind me did nothing but hurl abuse at him. sometimes i think we could have claude makelele in holding midfield and some of our fans would ridicule his lack of forward thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinmans Love Child Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 1 hour ago, TETBURY MASSIVE said: I'm guessing you were not at Derby? Because on Saturday he looked like messi compared to Tuesday night. Glad I wasn't at Derby then! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 8 hours ago, Rob k said: I'd like to know from the fans that think Pack is poor as to what Midfielders in this division they are using as a comparison. Good call. He took a few games to adjust to the pace of this league. But since then he has been efficient at the role he performs. He has had the odd poor game but in general he had been consistent. Not a weak link for me, but we need a bit of depth in there to cover for any of the three currently in posession....or to improve it. If Freeman could get a couple of goals (and I'm not blaming him) it would take pressure off of the other two, who aren't naturally goal threats. They are starting to look better as a three, and that will help the side overall. I don't see lots of names being realistically banded around as replacements? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redfieldred Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 6 hours ago, Davefevs said: Good call. He took a few games to adjust to the pace of this league. But since then he has been efficient at the role he performs. He has had the odd poor game but in general he had been consistent. Not a weak link for me, but we need a bit of depth in there to cover for any of the three currently in posession....or to improve it. If Freeman could get a couple of goals (and I'm not blaming him) it would take pressure off of the other two, who aren't naturally goal threats. They are starting to look better as a three, and that will help the side overall. I don't see lots of names being realistically banded around as replacements? At last a balanced view, thanks. I thought he was very good first half and won most of the possession that led to us playing the attractive football that unfortunately led once more to zero goals. Pack has had 2 poor games in the last 12 matches. Otherwise he has been pretty good, most of those games were 1 or 0 goals against and draws. In all these games there were very few goals for, so had the more attacking players created more chances we could have won them all. So why is pack always the scapegoat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 11 hours ago, Tinmans Love Child said: Personally I don't rate Pack at all, never have, I thought he was very poor v QPR, surprised to hear fans singing his praises on here, his passing was shocking at times and for me he is a liability who offers little, definitely central midfield is where we need to strengthen, Freeman and Smith were streets ahead of Pack. He might try hard or whatever but every player should try hard so that's hardly a positive Pack dictates our play and is always brave in possession . People moan about his lack of pace , but truth is that if he was quicker , chances are he would be at a top championship club or even better. Technically very good and has impressed me this season... So get off the lads back and embrace what he does well .... Which is lots !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redfieldred Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 6 hours ago, robin4ever said: Pack dictates our play and is always brave in possession . People moan about his lack of pace , but truth is that if he was quicker , chances are he would be at a top championship club or even better. Technically very good and has impressed me this season... So get off the lads back and embrace what he does well .... Which is lots !!! What I notice is that if freeman or smith are poor the response is yes he was poor but.,.,.... And then bang on about how they are adjusting to this level. There is an assumption that freeman is good enough at this level, despite quite a lot of evidence that he is struggling. When pack plays well, which is quite often, people say ' I don't rate pack but he played well today'. So he can play well at this level but still gets classed as a league 1 player. doesn't add up and looks to me like a bias towards attacking midfielders who on their day look good cos they create chances directly, rather than the holding midfielder whose job it is to win possession and try to keep it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redfieldred Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 Also there seems to be a taboo against criticising smith for frequently overplaying and being caught in possession. Pack loses the ball through sloppy passing, but is very rarely caught in possession. Again double standards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redfieldred Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 I played for the same side for 12 years mostly as a fullbavk or defensive mid, My job was to try to win the ball and the get it to a team mate. Overlapping the winger sometimes. That's it. No fancy flicks etc. One game the winger was way out of position, and I had to beat my opposing full back or be caught in possession,so I did a step over and beat him. I got motm that day. Not for the tireless defending that won tons of possession and led to 0 against us, but for the poxy step over. Bias! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mikefrombris Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 I am amazed at how many supporters slag the players off, do these supporters really go or are they armchair supporters. i remember some guy having a go at Paul cheesley saying he will never be a John Atyeo. What a low mentality. Give Pack all the support he needs to make him a better player Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Phantom Posted December 22, 2015 Admin Share Posted December 22, 2015 4 hours ago, Mikefrombris said: I am amazed at how many supporters slag the players off, do these supporters really go or are they armchair supporters. i remember some guy having a go at Paul cheesley saying he will never be a John Atyeo. What a low mentality. Give Pack all the support he needs to make him a better player Nature of the sport sadly. You only have to listen to 5 Live / Talksport to realise it is the same at every club But that's what makes football such a great event to see, one mans MOTM is the next mans scapegoat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 For me, the Blackburn settled the argument. Without Pack we had people running straight at the defence unchecked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 I think you have to appreciate that players gave specific roles that make up the team. 11 Kodjias would be no good, nor would 11 Packs! I think the Pack criticism stems from the role he is asked to play. Also look how he's grown / adapted to the role since he joined the club. 1. The cheap fouler of the SOD era in 13/14,who gave away so many freekicks needlessly. 2. The not good enough midfielder to get a start ahead of Wade, who worked hard, took his chance, made the position his and got a contact extension. 3. The too slow midfielder in first month of this season who has adapted and been the steady Eddie in the middle of the park. Dont forget he's not 25 to Match. There's a lot to come from him. ...and I'm not his biggest fan (!!!) but I do see what he gives the team unit. I just like to think we could improve the midfield and bring in someone better,but I don't criticise his performances over this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YorkshireSection Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 On 20 December 2015 at 16:45, Andy082005 said: Gives 100% and for that, I will never get on his back . All you can ever ask is for a player to give his all However, lets be brutally honest here. He is one of the major weak links in the team, and this is a position that should have been addressed in the summer. If we haven't addressed it by mid January, then Cotterill and Lansdown need shooting. Couldn't agree more, however he is playing out of position, he excelled at Cheltenham in a more attacking position, could he possibly do a job in Freemans job, just an idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashton_fan Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 Some people mentioned he faded toward the end of the QPR game, however he's never rested and covers a lot of ground during a game, I think that shows how much Cotts rates him and realises what we miss when he's not there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 Not sure about Freeman role but I remember him being a much more flair player at Cheltenham too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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