Londoner Posted December 28, 2015 Report Share Posted December 28, 2015 17 minutes ago, RedRaw said: What's laughable about that? Britton would have been on prem wages......are/were you expecting us to be paying prem wages? What's laughable is that we thought we could sign him permanently when he is on 30k a week Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciderup Posted December 28, 2015 Report Share Posted December 28, 2015 Is it just me or does anyone else think SL might have wanted a 'marquee' signing to go along with a few signings on lower wages? I'm only guessing but I can't see how else we could possibly justify the kind of wages I would imagine a signing of Grey's ilk woud require. What are we talking about? £25K a week? That's miles away from the alleged £10K ceiling! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CotswoldRed Posted December 28, 2015 Report Share Posted December 28, 2015 6 minutes ago, jambodinho said: It seems many (Cotterill fan boys) want us to break the bank to get in who Cotts wants even if that means we find ourselves under a transfer embargo next season because of it. Also, people saying SL has to back Cotterill with big bucks. Who are we going to sign for big bucks? Rhodes? Austin? Go back in for Gayle? These big name players wont come to us. Not now, not ever. Not at least until we are challenging for promotion year in, year out. Our transfer search should have taken place in Europe and a couple of the best players from League one. It wouldn't have guaranteed success but it would have given the likes of Freeman, Wilbraham, Bryan, Pack, Ayling and a few others competition for their places, which as a result, would have raised their performance levels. Instead Cotterill took a very different approach and as a result began the season with a weaker squad than we had last season. Call it arrogance, naivety, being out of his depth at this level. Whatever, he for me, is to blame for us being in a relegation battle. If he had brought in 6 or 7 gems from abroad plus a couple from league 1 and we found ourselves in the position we are in now, I doubt we'd be on here saying that we should have been going for players like Andre Gray or Dwight Gayle would we! While I don't lay the entire blame at Cotts door, I pretty much agree with most of what you're saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olé Posted December 28, 2015 Report Share Posted December 28, 2015 So it's pick one from two then: Steve Cotterill doesn't want to or isn't able to buy the players needed and is therefore out of his depth as a manager Steve Lansdown isn't spending the money needed on players and is therefore out of his depth running a football club It creates a nice pantomime season choice of villains, but I suspect reality is a lot more tedious and benign than that. Isn't it possible that both men had simply not wanted to add to the squad indiscriminately (don't forget a big part of the genesis of SC's successful tenure was a mass exodus to a small, close-knit squad). Maybe both were united in only wanting new players if they offered significant enhancement, but have found players of that calibre to be unwilling to join us. It doesn't fit the current witch-hunt for a scapegoat, but on face value it seems to me the most obvious explanation. When I look at other clubs with financial or geographic disadvantages in bigger leagues across Europe, I notice a high dependency on the loan system. In some cases this is simply the way other European leagues operate, but I don't think it's a coincidence this has been our response to being unable to sign anyone at the required level. The Championship in so many regards is equivalent to other European top divisions and we are equivalent to the rank outsiders therein. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ten minutes of rough Posted December 28, 2015 Report Share Posted December 28, 2015 1 hour ago, ralphindevon said: Why can't people just accept its not Cotts fault and it's not Lansdowns fault that we can't get good players. Decent players don't want to be signing for a club many miles away from any footballing hotbed that is a yo yo club between the championship and league one. Look at what are? A club with a new ground, sort of, a rich owner, and in a nice part of the country. We were on the cusp of the Prem a few years back, and in a much poorer state. We are bigger than Burnley, with a potential that they cannot equal, we have much more capacity. I said the transfer targets were a semi serious effort, but lacked the wages offered, and perhaps Cotts was the problem too, either way the way it was handled was a bad joke. At least we tried was the message, and for that the blame has to be with SL, Cotts feels he has been let down, he is carrying the can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBristolian Posted December 28, 2015 Report Share Posted December 28, 2015 Thing is, whether or not you agree the issue is the board backing Cotts or not, the simple fact is we spent more over the summer than either Preston or MK Dons but have gone from finishing 8 and 10 points ahead of them to trailing them in the league. That cannot be explained by the board not backing the manager, or our players no longer being good enough. It can only come down to either a failure to use the money that was spent effectively or a failure to get the most out of the players we have Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokey Posted December 28, 2015 Report Share Posted December 28, 2015 5 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said: Thing is, whether or not you agree the issue is the board backing Cotts or not, the simple fact is we spent more over the summer than either Preston or MK Dons but have gone from finishing 8 and 10 points ahead of them to trailing them in the league. That cannot be explained by the board not backing the manager, or our players no longer being good enough. It can only come down to either a failure to use the money that was spent effectively or a failure to get the most out of the players we have We are tactically naive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CotswoldRed Posted December 28, 2015 Report Share Posted December 28, 2015 12 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said: Thing is, whether or not you agree the issue is the board backing Cotts or not, the simple fact is we spent more over the summer than either Preston or MK Dons but have gone from finishing 8 and 10 points ahead of them to trailing them in the league. That cannot be explained by the board not backing the manager, or our players no longer being good enough. It can only come down to either a failure to use the money that was spent effectively or a failure to get the most out of the players we have It's also about letting players leave and not replacing them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBristolian Posted December 28, 2015 Report Share Posted December 28, 2015 2 minutes ago, CotswoldRed said: It's also about letting players leave and not replacing them. Indeed. Sorry - I meant to add that in there too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donkeeebles Posted December 28, 2015 Report Share Posted December 28, 2015 2 hours ago, 'keepuplino' said: I think a lot of the guy's on here want to stick with SC because 1/ The marvellous season we had last year 2/ They think he was let down by the board in the summer (I'm not so sure SC is blameless in that) 3/ They think if we keep faith and don't keep swapping managers success will follow (total myth created by Sir Alex Fergusons success at united, a one off) 4/ A few think we've missed our chance to sack SC as January is upon us, he should have been sacked sooner to give a new guy the chance to access our squad. SC is now the only option. I personally think a decent new manager tempted with promised mini war chest and a plan to properly take this club to the next level is key and now is the time. SC lack of activity during games shows lack of managerial skill and he needs to take some responsibility for this seasons shambles!! You say it's a total myth but how many clubs have actually tried it? How many have stuck with their manager when times are bad? If you want to talk about myths what about the myth that sacking your current manager and replacing him with a (failed) manager from another club will bring you success. There are thousands of examples of this as our club already knows too well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingswood Robin Posted December 28, 2015 Report Share Posted December 28, 2015 2 hours ago, shelts said: Why does Cotts think we need help now, what took him so long now we are in a relegation battle. We will have to pay well to attract players or sack Cotts and hope the new guy can motivate and help us convert our chances and stay solid at the back. Were not far away from being decent, either one or two championship quality players or a mint manager!! Cotterill's been saying we need a better squad for months, indirectly to start with and now very directly. He openly said at the start of the season, "how can I compete when other clubs can offer twice what I can?". The wages issue is being twisted to suit. Lansdown was the one saying a few weeks ago he felt the squad was good enough. Really Steve, time to get your head out of the sand and your wallet out of your pocket. The stadiums looking great but we need something worth watching on the green bit in the middle. Time to stop playing at it, give Cotterill the chance with some proper championship level money. If we show some ambition and get one in, others may follow instead of going somewhere else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Red Posted December 28, 2015 Report Share Posted December 28, 2015 1 hour ago, jambodinho said: It seems many (Cotterill fan boys) want us to break the bank to get in who Cotts wants even if that means we find ourselves under a transfer embargo next season because of it. Also, people saying SL has to back Cotterill with big bucks. Who are we going to sign for big bucks? Rhodes? Austin? Go back in for Gayle? These big name players wont come to us. Not now, not ever. Not at least until we are challenging for promotion year in, year out. Our transfer search should have taken place in Europe and a couple of the best players from League one. It wouldn't have guaranteed success but it would have given the likes of Freeman, Wilbraham, Bryan, Pack, Ayling and a few others competition for their places, which as a result, would have raised their performance levels. Instead Cotterill took a very different approach and as a result began the season with a weaker squad than we had last season. Call it arrogance, naivety, being out of his depth at this level. Whatever, he for me, is to blame for us being in a relegation battle. If he had brought in 6 or 7 gems from abroad plus a couple from league 1 and we found ourselves in the position we are in now, I doubt we'd be on here saying that we should have been going for players like Andre Gray or Dwight Gayle would we! Agree with most of this. There are a whole host of players that would have been chomping at the bit to of joined a newly promoted Bristol City back in the summer.. As you said there would have been no certainty that up and coming League 1 players or un known foreigners would have improved us but at least we would have had competition for places and TBH id rather a fo0king Bradshaw type as another option upfront than Wes bloody Burns for an example! The blame for me lies with dopey Cotterill for the **** up in the summer, he went for un realistic targets end of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milo1111 Posted December 28, 2015 Report Share Posted December 28, 2015 1 hour ago, Olé said: So it's pick one from two then: Steve Cotterill doesn't want to or isn't able to buy the players needed and is therefore out of his depth as a manager Steve Lansdown isn't spending the money needed on players and is therefore out of his depth running a football club It creates a nice pantomime season choice of villains, but I suspect reality is a lot more tedious and benign than that. Isn't it possible that both men had simply not wanted to add to the squad indiscriminately (don't forget a big part of the genesis of SC's successful tenure was a mass exodus to a small, close-knit squad). Maybe both were united in only wanting new players if they offered significant enhancement, but have found players of that calibre to be unwilling to join us. It doesn't fit the current witch-hunt for a scapegoat, but on face value it seems to me the most obvious explanation. When I look at other clubs with financial or geographic disadvantages in bigger leagues across Europe, I notice a high dependency on the loan system. In some cases this is simply the way other European leagues operate, but I don't think it's a coincidence this has been our response to being unable to sign anyone at the required level. The Championship in so many regards is equivalent to other European top divisions and we are equivalent to the rank outsiders therein. Stop talking sense for gods sake!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inactive user Posted December 28, 2015 Report Share Posted December 28, 2015 Cotterill: "If we could have had one, two or three of Burnley's players, then I think we'd have won the game - that's the difference." Yep, sod financial fair play, I reckon we'd be better if we'd have bought Ronaldo and that terribly nice Zlatan bloke. What a clueless twerp he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shtanley Posted December 29, 2015 Report Share Posted December 29, 2015 30 minutes ago, SX225 said: Does it matter if Gray had signed? Surely the formation and lack of subs (why is SC not being questioned publically about it) is the major problem? If you can't put the killer ball through from midfield and your wing-backs can't/won't get back quick enough - then whoever we put up top will struggle. It's the tactics that have turned leads into draws and 0-1's into 0-4's. That lies at SC's door. Nobody else. Not Lansdown, not KB, not the board. The manager. Why will he not change? Seriously, we may as well not have a bench - we don't use it. Cox must be getting splinters in his bum from all the sitting down he does. Only the manager can play him - why not? If he's not fit - why isn't the manager getting him to do the required extra training? These are simple questions that no-one can or will answer We are NOT good enough to play 3-5-2. So either we sign 4 or 5 better players who can play that formation, or get a new manger that will change the tactics. It really is as simple as that. Because if we don't change one or the other, we really are a huge chance to be relegated. It's such a shame. But I'd ask this question - regardless of manager or chairman, can ANYONE, think of a club who have gone so backwards, so quickly in 9 months from such a position of strength? The foundation for BCFC to be a solid Championship side are laid - what a terrible disappointment it will be to throw this chance away. Wigan, from the FA cup final. Us after the play off final? Chelsea right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS4 on Tour... Posted December 29, 2015 Report Share Posted December 29, 2015 6 hours ago, bris red said: Agree with most of this. There are a whole host of players that would have been chomping at the bit to of joined a newly promoted Bristol City back in the summer.. As you said there would have been no certainty that up and coming League 1 players or un known foreigners would have improved us but at least we would have had competition for places and TBH id rather a fo0king Bradshaw type as another option upfront than Wes bloody Burns for an example! The blame for me lies with dopey Cotterill for the **** up in the summer, he went for un realistic targets end of. Why call him 'Wes bloody Burns'?? He hasn't been given an opportunity to show us what he can do or stake a claim for a regular place... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Hunt-Hertz Posted December 29, 2015 Report Share Posted December 29, 2015 11 hours ago, ralphindevon said: Why can't people just accept its not Cotts fault and it's not Lansdowns fault that we can't get good players. Decent players don't want to be signing for a club many miles away from any footballing hotbed that is a yo yo club between the championship and league one. We're not in the Faroe Islands, though. And historically mediocre Cardiff seem to be attracting decent players lately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djb6162 Posted December 29, 2015 Report Share Posted December 29, 2015 8 hours ago, bris red said: Agree with most of this. There are a whole host of players that would have been chomping at the bit to of joined a newly promoted Bristol City back in the summer.. As you said there would have been no certainty that up and coming League 1 players or un known foreigners would have improved us but at least we would have had competition for places and TBH id rather a fo0king Bradshaw type as another option upfront than Wes bloody Burns for an example! The blame for me lies with dopey Cotterill for the **** up in the summer, he went for un realistic targets end of. So is this the bradshaw that wes replaced at u21s for wales whilst 2 years his junior ? and if so can i ask you how often you have watched bradshaw play and why you suppose he is going to be so much better an investment than wes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILINFRANCE Posted December 29, 2015 Report Share Posted December 29, 2015 6 minutes ago, djb6162 said: So is this the bradshaw that wes replaced at u21s for wales whilst 2 years his junior ? and if so can i ask you how often you have watched bradshaw play and why you suppose he is going to be so much better an investment than wes And, along the same lines, if Tom B really is as good (either now or as an investment for the future) as some on here suggest, why did City, with all their experienced and (with all due to respect to our OTIB experts) probably more knowledgeable scouts and professional advisors, not sign him at the end of last season in preparation for this season in the Championship, rather than wait until the overpriced January transfer window? Is it perhaps because they consider him an excellent goalscorer at Division 1 level, but injury prone and not quite up to the mark in the the Championship? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robin_unreliant Posted December 29, 2015 Report Share Posted December 29, 2015 If we go in for Bradshaw now that can only say one thing for me. We have given up on getting Championship quality players as we are looking to build a L1 team for next season. Looking at it now maybe not a bad shout as I can't see SC keeping us up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CotswoldRed Posted December 29, 2015 Report Share Posted December 29, 2015 18 minutes ago, robin_unreliant said: If we go in for Bradshaw now that can only say one thing for me. We have given up on getting Championship quality players as we are looking to build a L1 team for next season. Looking at it now maybe not a bad shout as I can't see SC keeping us up. I disagree. If we are preparing a L1 team then we already have what we need and we can wait until the summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted December 29, 2015 Report Share Posted December 29, 2015 13 hours ago, ralphindevon said: Why can't people just accept its not Cotts fault and it's not Lansdowns fault that we can't get good players. Decent players don't want to be signing for a club many miles away from any footballing hotbed that is a yo yo club between the championship and league one. Sorry but i don't agree , we've had decent players and still have . Our problem is not geographical but managerial. We need to be better run as a " football " club . If we can't attract a certain type of player we need to change our source . I'm convinced that there are there are top footballers in other countries who would jump at the chance to play in the English Championship . Where are the the Kinkladzes of today ? We also need to step up our coaching of the Academy players . Bring through the lads who have an affinity with the club and give the buggers a freaking chance ! We can't compete toe to toe with bigger clubs so we must have a better business plan to win ' differently ' , like Southampton or Swansea for example. Our club has been badly run for decades , i fear that all Lansdown's millions will count for nothing if a proper set up is not put in place . i'm not too optimistic . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CotswoldRed Posted December 29, 2015 Report Share Posted December 29, 2015 16 hours ago, ralphindevon said: Why can't people just accept its not Cotts fault and it's not Lansdowns fault that we can't get good players. Decent players don't want to be signing for a club many miles away from any footballing hotbed that is a yo yo club between the championship and league one. In a similar way to Bournemouth who couldn't attract players? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted December 29, 2015 Report Share Posted December 29, 2015 Who ever said This is Cott's ' Ward ' moment is bang on the money . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin phantom Posted December 29, 2015 Admin Report Share Posted December 29, 2015 1 hour ago, Major Isewater said: Who ever said This is Cott's ' Ward ' moment is bang on the money . 56 minutes ago, cynic said: I think Ward admitted that he needed some help - he did all he could. SC is saying that the team needs help in the form of new recruits with experience. Time will tell if we get them or not. Thats how I see it anyhow. The difference is one wasn't too proud to admit he needed help - not something I would ever expect Cotts to admit too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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