Reading the runes...Ashton in, Cotts out, new manager...what can we tell so far?

[cityexile]

That was the week that was!

Great draw at WBA. In for Clough, mood good.

Defeat to Preston, despair.

Cotts goes.

Ashton in.

Beat Middlesborough.

Few weeks have bought so many ups and downs for us City fans, but wonder if we now know enough to join up some dots;

-   not a believer in coincidences. Cotts goes and Ashton confirmed so soon afterwards. Complete speculation, but possible Board getting bored with transfer screw ups and now decide they want Ashton and Head Coach? Discuss with Cotts who decides he cannot live with it and goes?

-   we are going to have a Head Coach. They can call themselves a manager if they like, but they will be the former. Not going to be a manager in charge who does it entirely their way. In my view that makes the appointment of somebody like Pearson much less likely;

-  Ashton certainly talks a good fight. Comes across well. Still looking for new players, and in no rush for a new manager. Implies actually a lot of confidence, at least short term, with Pembo;

Joining all that up, my guess is we will not see a new manager any time soon, but will see some new players. We will get in somebody that is comfortable in the role of Head Coach, and not likely to rebel against it. Most likely a youngish 'modern' manager whatever that means.

No real problem with all that medium term. The short term pressures will be two fold in my mind;

-   This is all fine and dandy whilst things go well. There will inevitably be fan kick back if results are not there. 'Where is our manager? Why are we delaying while Rome burns? Give us the big name to save us!'

-   Fans will I suspect also give this some time if Ashton and team can now bring in some new players in a way that Cotts and team (the team being much the same!) could not. It will damage him if over the next two weeks we are linked with a load of names again none of which materialise. To build his credability here that things really have changed, and the new model can deliver aside fron a big name, could really do with some quick wins here.

How others see it?

 

[BobBobSuperBob]

1 hour ago, cityexile said:

That was the week that was!

Great draw at WBA. In for Clough, mood good.

Defeat to Preston, despair.

Cotts goes.

Ashton in.

Beat Middlesborough.

Few weeks have bought so many ups and downs for us City fans, but wonder if we now know enough to join up some dots;

-   not a believer in coincidences. Cotts goes and Ashton confirmed so soon afterwards. Complete speculation, but possible Board getting bored with transfer screw ups and now decide they want Ashton and Head Coach? Discuss with Cotts who decides he cannot live with it and goes?

-   we are going to have a Head Coach. They can call themselves a manager if they like, but they will be the former. Not going to be a manager in charge who does it entirely their way. In my view that makes the appointment of somebody like Pearson much less likely;

-  Ashton certainly talks a good fight. Comes across well. Still looking for new players, and in no rush for a new manager. Implies actually a lot of confidence, at least short term, with Pembo;

Joining all that up, my guess is we will not see a new manager any time soon, but will see some new players. We will get in somebody that is comfortable in the role of Head Coach, and not likely to rebel against it. Most likely a youngish 'modern' manager whatever that means.

No real problem with all that medium term. The short term pressures will be two fold in my mind;

-   This is all fine and dandy whilst things go well. There will inevitably be fan kick back if results are not there. 'Where is our manager? Why are we delaying while Rome burns? Give us the big name to save us!'

-   Fans will I suspect also give this some time if Ashton and team can now bring in some new players in a way that Cotts and team (the team being much the same!) could not. It will damage him if over the next two weeks we are linked with a load of names again none of which materialise. To build his credability here that things really have changed, and the new model can deliver aside fron a big name, could really do with some quick wins here.

How others see it?

 

No need  to add to that for me Exile - Excellent summing up, and points IMO

[BS4 on Tour...]

What's a 'rune' ?

[PHILINFRANCE]

5 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

What's a 'rune' ?

Like in Athens, with all those old buildings.

[Son of Fred]

1 hour ago, cityexile said:

That was the week that was!

Great draw at WBA. In for Clough, mood good.

Defeat to Preston, despair.

Cotts goes.

Ashton in.

Beat Middlesborough.

Few weeks have bought so many ups and downs for us City fans, but wonder if we now know enough to join up some dots;

-   not a believer in coincidences. Cotts goes and Ashton confirmed so soon afterwards. Complete speculation, but possible Board getting bored with transfer screw ups and now decide they want Ashton and Head Coach? Discuss with Cotts who decides he cannot live with it and goes?

-   we are going to have a Head Coach. They can call themselves a manager if they like, but they will be the former. Not going to be a manager in charge who does it entirely their way. In my view that makes the appointment of somebody like Pearson much less likely;

-  Ashton certainly talks a good fight. Comes across well. Still looking for new players, and in no rush for a new manager. Implies actually a lot of confidence, at least short term, with Pembo;

Joining all that up, my guess is we will not see a new manager any time soon, but will see some new players. We will get in somebody that is comfortable in the role of Head Coach, and not likely to rebel against it. Most likely a youngish 'modern' manager whatever that means.

No real problem with all that medium term. The short term pressures will be two fold in my mind;

-   This is all fine and dandy whilst things go well. There will inevitably be fan kick back if results are not there. 'Where is our manager? Why are we delaying while Rome burns? Give us the big name to save us!'

-   Fans will I suspect also give this some time if Ashton and team can now bring in some new players in a way that Cotts and team (the team being much the same!) could not. It will damage him if over the next two weeks we are linked with a load of names again none of which materialise. To build his credability here that things really have changed, and the new model can deliver aside fron a big name, could really do with some quick wins here.

How others see it?

 

Will be another balls up the way things are being set out..only a 'yes' man would take it on...and a very subservient one.Pearson out then!!

[Kala Taro]

9 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

What's a 'rune' ?

It's a small brown wrinkly thing that you can eat. Too many give you the trots. Oh no, wait... I'm thinking of raisins.

[steviestevieneville]

Ashton said on Twentyman that the new manager/head coach (title means nothing) and will have final say on transfers 

[cityexile]

7 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said:

Ashton said on Twentyman that the new manager/head coach (title means nothing) and will have final say on transfers 

Said I think a new player would not be bought in that the Head Coach did not want. As you say a 'final say' or a veto. Might be wrong but think managers like Pearson would want the first say, the middle say and the only say!

[Ivorguy]

Then they are not for us or any other modern go getting club

[steviestevieneville]

He said the manager would know and (veto) who was being scouted from the outset. I'm contradicting myself a bit but he said the new man would know and decide along with the scouting set up who we were looking at all along so there wouldn't be a actual final say because all players being scouted he would want anyway. 

Bit different from when we had Pete Johnson sticking a pin in the paper 

[Kala Taro]

Well if we're going to sign any new players this week then the new 'Head Coach' must have been chosen already, no?

[CodeRed]

yes - but in terms of the group won't sign anyone the manager doesn't want......but equally the head coach will part of the group (scouts,Burt,Ashton,head coach) who will identify and agree targets. So it won't be the manager alone. He specifically said the days of a Sir Alex type who ran everything are gone

 

Seems to rule out the Pearson Moyes type....he wants a young intelligent coach with a background in youth development who has made a mark in management and is on the up and comfortable with the collective approach to recruitment.

can't think of anyone - Justin Edinburgh maybe, or foreign perhaps

[Londoner]

what we can tell

Making progress on signings

lots of interest by proven managers

no deal imminent and could be a little while

we are going to splash cash to stay up

ashton is a politican

fans of other clubs think we are tinpot with no little potential....they couldn't be more wrong. 

[Nibor]

How I'd read it (all guesswork and assumption, no pretend inside info whatsoever).

When SOD and Keith Burt were brought in the club had a huge wage bill having recently recruited "Established Championship" players and were staring relegation in the face.  They (SL primarily) wanted to move away from the age old scenario where a new manager meant an expensive clear out and new playing staff and instead have a strategy for recruitment that was more long term and less tied to the first team manager.

SOD didn't last long enough with first team results being what they were to see that through but was fully behind the idea of recruitment working differently.  When they appointed Cotterill, it was a case of forgetting the long term in the interests of quick first team results.  I'd guess that SL was a somewhat reluctant party to this and from reports Cotterill was more Keith Dawe's favoured candidate.  Cotterill did extremely well in the short term but demanded full control of transfers.  We don't really know how many of the summer 14 signings were initiated by him, or were already on the table.  Maybe a bit of both, maybe he OKed some that were already planned and identified others.

Last summer, the player identification was plain old wrong.  We spent all our time and effort chasing players that were out of reach (Lingard, Gray, Gayle and so on).  Not necessarily financially out of reach, more stature.  Why would they take a step down (or in Gray's case, not take a step further up)?  We only signed Kodjia permanently, let Cunningham and JET go, lost Elliott to retirement and then brought in several loans which were largely unused with the notable exception of Baker.  Again, we don't really know which deals were being pushed by which people, and the end result was we started the season with a weaker squad than we had the previous time out.  It did seem particularly with the loan of Cox that there was some kind of divide on transfer policy, perhaps the abandoned long term approach people battling with the manager?

When we arrived in January we didn't move quickly, and again ended up focusing on a player we couldn't actually land in Clough.  Results had been shite and we were again staring relegation in the face.  I guess at this point SL is frustrated at both the results and the lack of suitable transfer targets and acts to fire Cotterill.  He probably knows he wants to go back to the longer term plan anyway and has Ashton lined up.  The only difference between now and when SOD was brought in is that this time we hadn't built up the vast wage bill from last time under Johnson, Coppell, Millen and McInnes and there was and is still scope to sign players.

Ashton seems to be happy to go ahead and sign who he can despite not having a "coach" in place, but then that's the recruitment strategy the owner wants anyway isn't it?  Players tied to the club not the manager?  

The real questions (who did the signings in summer 14, who pushed which failed deals since) remain unanswered.  If we get three or four players in over the next couple of weeks and they're good enough to help us escape relegation I imagine we're looking at a new coach in the summer who comes in buying into the new system and Ashton will get a lot of credit.  If we don't, or we get relegated anyway, I imagine it'll be panic stations and throwing money at it again since that worked last time.

For what it's worth, I think you can have a group of people identifying and scouting and taking care of the commercials whilst a manager gets a strong say and a veto as long as everybody understands that going in, and I think the old "manager is king" model is dead and buried.  But results will continue to be the be all and end all.

Interesting times.

[Kala Taro]

3 minutes ago, CodeRed said:

yes - but in terms of the group won't sign anyone the manager doesn't want......but equally the head coach will part of the group (scouts,Burt,Ashton,head coach) who will identify and agree targets. So it won't be the manager alone. He specifically said the days of a Sir Alex type who ran everything are gone

 

Seems to rule out the Pearson Moyes type....he wants a young intelligent coach with a background in youth development who has made a mark in management and is on the up and comfortable with the collective approach to recruitment.

can't think of anyone - Justin Edinburgh maybe, or foreign perhaps

At this time, when we're trying to save our Championship status, I can't believe they'd put it in the hands of a foreign coach that knows nothing about the Championship or, for that matter, an unproven lower league candidate.

Stipulating a young coach with a background in youth development doesn't appear to be what we would need right now. I'm more inclined to think that they'll keep JP/WE on for the rest of the season, dependent on results obviously. As you've pointed out, that would appear to rule out the likes of Pearson and Moyes anyway.

What do I know? This club never ceases to amaze me with the cack-handed, headless chicken rush from one catastrophe to the next that is it's usual modus operandi.

[beaverface]

It's all pointing to Pemberton being in charge to the end of the season in my eyes.

[Nibor]

9 hours ago, beaverface said:

It's all pointing to Pemberton being in charge to the end of the season in my eyes.

Wouldn't bet against it if we get results, why rush? 

[City Ben]

12 hours ago, cityexile said:

Said I think a new player would not be bought in that the Head Coach did not want. As you say a 'final say' or a veto. Might be wrong but think managers like Pearson would want the first say, the middle say and the only say!

Hi Cityexile, another City exile here. Can you beat 7,000km? 

I agreed almost entirely with your OP. That's how I read the goings on too. But on this Pearson point I'm not so sure... apparently he is pretty up to date on all the latest coaching methods and technology. He's also used to working with a management team - I've read lots on here about how in fact he wasn't responsible for the Mahrez and Vardy signings, as his head of talent acquisition (or something) was the guy who found them. Perhaps his uncompromising playing rep clouds judgment of his approach to management? 

That said, I really want him to come here so maybe I'm bending the facts to fit my hopes!