So could've Sainsbury's screwed us over too?

[Lord Northski]

Forget the village Green because that was all bollocks, and everyone knows it.

But without that, we could've been in exactly the same position as the Rovers. We had found somewhere to build a new, more modern ground, we had sold our Ashton Gate (subject to planning) to Sainsburys and the planning was granted, albeit on an slightly amended basis to what had been originally planned. The cost of building the new ground would be paid for by the sale of the old ground, and let's be honest, no one pays/ paid more for land than supermarkets.  

Would the deal have happened without the rediculous village green thing scuppering it? Well, it wasn't that long after before the big supermarkets changed their business strategy and ditched all ideas of huge new premises. We could've been caught up in that too, and (just like Rovers) planning was only granted on an amended basis. So, could Sainsbury's lawyers have argued that this deal could be ditched as well? Guess we'll never know, but it's very possible.

Personally I think it's a shame that Rovers didn't win their court case, although, like most I didn't think they had a very strong case, plus as we know, when you're dealing with big business a deal isn't always a deal unless you've got more lawyers than they have. 

Personally I like having two clubs in the City, N.B. as long as we're doing better than them. But without Steve Lansdown, we could've been in exactly the same position too. 

Sainburys could've been in the situation of upsetting both City and Rovers fans in the same City. Now that would be ugly. 

 

[Vincent Vega]

I don't feel sorry for Rovers ,I'm over the moon to be honest.

[Nomad]

14 minutes ago, Lord Northski said:

Forget the village Green because that was all bollocks, and everyone knows it.

 

 

I don't. You obviously know more than the rest of us.

[Lanterne Rouge]

I must admit I`ve been thinking for a while that we might have dodged a bullet there.

[Lichfield eastend]

I think our situation if it had gone ahead would of been OK as Sainsburys were 1... Building a store that was larger than the one up the road, subsequently increasing sales & 2 ... Recouping money with the sale of the land from where the old store would of been for housing ,that I understand had already been approved

[Red-Robbo]

14 minutes ago, Lichfield eastend said:

I think our situation if it had gone ahead would of been OK as Sainsburys were 1... Building a store that was larger than the one up the road, subsequently increasing sales & 2 ... Recouping money with the sale of the land from where the old store would of been for housing ,that I understand had already been approved

Exactly. It was a relocated store, not a totally new venture.

And even if Sainsbury's had stiffed us, SL has big enough pockets to have made Ashton Vale happen.  We'd have sold the Gate to someone else.

Wally al-Quiddy does not have the same resources or local connection as Steve, so there remains a question mark over whether Rovers' "Field Of Nightmares" will ever get built.

[View from the Dolman]

Also ours was possibly a little earlier in the demise of the big supermarkets. With the rise of Aldi, Lidl etc the case for Sainsburys at the Mem was significantly diminished.

[Super]

After seeing how good the Stadium is looking  i'm glad it all fell through

[Super]

Did Rovers have any sympathy for us? Happy days.

[cidered abroad]

If the AV stadium project had not been held up, we would probably have been playing at AV for several years now.

However, the delays for village greens etc, did drag it out into a new era in food retailing. The change in shopping habits by the public from very big shopping, monthly, bi-monthly and even weekly, to smaller amounts at more local shops did happen very quickly.

I strongly suspect that SL and Sainsbury's were in constant contact during the period of shopping change and delaying tactics by the Nimbys. Thus perhaps SL had earlier warning from Sainsbury's of their changing situation. Hence he decided to go ahead with the upgrade at Ashton Gate. This has probably cost him roughly the same amount that he was planning to invest in AV stadium on top of the sale proceeds of The Gate. We are fortunate that SL is able to fund the Ashton Gate rebuild whereas Higgs and the Gas board were not.

[Nick Wilde]

How did Sainsburys screw anyone over? They Terminated the contract lawfully didn't they?

[Vincent Vega]

18 minutes ago, BCFCFreeman said:

How did Sainsburys screw anyone over? They Terminated the contract lawfully didn't they?

And upheld in court twice...

[Lanterne Rouge]

1 hour ago, Doozerchris said:

And upheld in court twice...

But that amounts to being screwed over if you`re from up Horfield way.

[NOTBLUE]

19 minutes ago, Red Right Hand said:

But that amounts to being screwed over if you`re from up Horfield way.

I live in Horfield and don't feel screwed over at all.

[054123]

Ooh me ribs

mariobalotelli Reserve Team 7 hours ago Henbury Gas and crazyblues71 like this.

Quote

Did anyone expect us to win? 

As for the other lot, **** em? Wael has said how important a stadium is regardless of today's result. They've been backed by billions and achieved **** all except for bouncing between League 1 and the Championship, and are just making the most of the little time that they have left above us. They've mocked DC and he's turned out to be excellent and a breath of fresh air, they've mocked the way we've been ran, and now we're being ran well, they've mocked the way we have no money, and now we do. 

They're scared and they don't want to admit it.

[054123]

Pure gold on Gaschat.

Shame we can't include some of their threads in our 'classics' section.

 

[054123]

"Now we're a well run club"

Deary me, a good chuckle in store this evening.

[Fiale]

12 minutes ago, 054123 said:

Ooh me ribs

mariobalotelli Reserve Team 7 hours ago Henbury Gas and crazyblues71 like this.

Quote

Did anyone expect us to win? 

As for the other lot, **** em? Wael has said how important a stadium is regardless of today's result. They've been backed by billions and achieved **** all except for bouncing between League 1 and the Championship, and are just making the most of the little time that they have left above us. They've mocked DC and he's turned out to be excellent and a breath of fresh air, they've mocked the way we've been ran, and now we're being ran well, they've mocked the way we have no money, and now we do. 

They're scared and they don't want to admit it.

 

 A stadium is of course important, you do not have to be a prophet or study rocket science to say this - no stadium no club, even Manor Farm know this, they have a nice set up Rovers might be able to copy.

Backed by billions ? Wow, our owner might be a billionaire, but it's his money not ours, we sure have some nice backing, but billions.... wow, anyone else miss that news.. why the hell are our tickets not free if we have billions  ?

Championship and L1 yo-yoing... it's been the best of times, it's been the worst of times, I think we can all safely say we had times.

Little time we have left above them, do they not know just how bloody hard it is to compete in the Championship, hell to even get out of L1 ?

How do they know they are being ran well ? Like day one at Uni and telling everyone how amazing all your lecturers are.

As for the money.... has it still not sank in for them, are they still in some sort of mass delusion ?

 

 

[NOTBLUE]

29 minutes ago, 054123 said:

Ooh me ribs

mariobalotelli Reserve Team 7 hours ago Henbury Gas and crazyblues71 like this.

Quote

Did anyone expect us to win? 

As for the other lot, **** em? Wael has said how important a stadium is regardless of today's result. They've been backed by billions and achieved **** all except for bouncing between League 1 and the Championship, and are just making the most of the little time that they have left above us. They've mocked DC and he's turned out to be excellent and a breath of fresh air, they've mocked the way we've been ran, and now we're being ran well, they've mocked the way we have no money, and now we do. 

They're scared and they don't want to admit it.

I better change my pants,I think I've **** myself.

[Lanterne Rouge]

7 minutes ago, NOTBLUE said:

I better change my pants,I think I've **** myself.

Why aren`t I surprised Henbury Gas `liked` the post?

[Andy082005]

6 hours ago, Red Right Hand said:

I must admit I`ve been thinking for a while that we might have dodged a bullet there.

I said a while back, I think Lansdown and Co were privvy to some info. One minute we were going to fight them all the way....then next minute, just like that...we dropped our legal fight and went to plan B.

It's no secret Sainsburys future plans changed. They wanted to move more to the metro size supermarkets more so then the huge hyper markets.

I honestly think Sainsburys would have pulled out 

[ChippenhamRed]

3 hours ago, 054123 said:

"Now we're a well run club"

Deary me, a good chuckle in store this evening.

He actually said "now we're being ran well", which is even funnier.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Andy082005 said:

I said a while back, I think Lansdown and Co were privvy to some info. One minute we were going to fight them all the way....then next minute, just like that...we dropped our legal fight and went to plan B.

It's no secret Sainsburys future plans changed. They wanted to move more to the metro size supermarkets more so then the huge hyper markets.

I honestly think Sainsburys would have pulled out 

I don't think Sainsburys pulling out would've been anywhere near as significant for us. I think we would've proceeded with AV but realised the time spent fighting TVG was time lost. In our case, plan B was viable and immediately actionable. I think the board also acknowledged mistakes were made in respect of the AV project - action should've been taken to make sure TVG was never an option even before we announced our intentions with that land. 

Had we needed Sainsburys money I might be inclined to agree. The fact that we tore down two stands and carried out significant works to a third shows that, with or without Sainsburys on board, we were proceeding. We didn't 'need' Sainsburys, but it was damn convenient that at the time they were buying AG. All Sainsburys ensured was that SL wasn't sat on AG as a landbank, but now he's sat on AV as a landbank.

It's for those reasons if I was a Rovers fan I would be concerned. If UWE was going ahead why wait pending this judgment? All this judgment would've impacted is how much it would've hit the investors. If the plans were to pursue even in defeat why were the JCBs not there before now? If the case was so irrelevant then surely there is no sense in waiting. Unless Plan B can only involve external funding in which case how attractive is it, how much is their investor willing to commit and how expensive is this third party financing...? 

There may well be a Plan B for them. But our Plan B was does SL pays without any contribution, which he did. That's why, Sainsburys or no-Sainsburys for AV I feel is a moot point and irrelevant to whether AV would've proceeded. I've no doubt had we been in the same shoes, whilst we may have litigated, AV would've been constructed in the meantime. 

[RT's Vaseline Tub]

9 hours ago, Super said:

After seeing how good the Stadium is looking  i'm glad it all fell through

Plus Ashton Gate is our spiritual home

[Son of Fred]

14 hours ago, Lichfield eastend said:

I think our situation if it had gone ahead would of been OK as Sainsburys were 1... Building a store that was larger than the one up the road, subsequently increasing sales & 2 ... Recouping money with the sale of the land from where the old store would of been for housing ,that I understand had already been approved

Doesn't matter,'larger..they have changed their strategy.even larger than large not the thing now..personally I'm glad it fell through and happy to be at Ashton Gate.

[BS2 Red]

On 17/03/2016 at 14:39, Doozerchris said:

I don't feel sorry for Rovers ,I'm over the moon to be honest.

I don't feel sorry for them, but I do have a tiny feeling of disappointment that this might mean they end up staying in Bristol.  Getting them out of the city into South Glos would have been quite nice.

As for Ashton Vale, I would hope that City's legal team would have drawn up proper "watertight" contracts and avoided the situation that the 15ers found themselves in. 

[Drew Peacock]

10 minutes ago, BS2 Red said:

As for Ashton Vale, I would hope that City's legal team would have drawn up proper "watertight" contracts and avoided the situation that the 15ers found themselves in. 

Don't both clubs use Burges Salmon?

[Lanterne Rouge]

20 hours ago, 29AR said:

I don't think Sainsburys pulling out would've been anywhere near as significant for us. I think we would've proceeded with AV but realised the time spent fighting TVG was time lost. In our case, plan B was viable and immediately actionable. I think the board also acknowledged mistakes were made in respect of the AV project - action should've been taken to make sure TVG was never an option even before we announced our intentions with that land. 

Had we needed Sainsburys money I might be inclined to agree. The fact that we tore down two stands and carried out significant works to a third shows that, with or without Sainsburys on board, we were proceeding. We didn't 'need' Sainsburys, but it was damn convenient that at the time they were buying AG. All Sainsburys ensured was that SL wasn't sat on AG as a landbank, but now he's sat on AV as a landbank.

It's for those reasons if I was a Rovers fan I would be concerned. If UWE was going ahead why wait pending this judgment? All this judgment would've impacted is how much it would've hit the investors. If the plans were to pursue even in defeat why were the JCBs not there before now? If the case was so irrelevant then surely there is no sense in waiting. Unless Plan B can only involve external funding in which case how attractive is it, how much is their investor willing to commit and how expensive is this third party financing...? 

There may well be a Plan B for them. But our Plan B was does SL pays without any contribution, which he did. That's why, Sainsburys or no-Sainsburys for AV I feel is a moot point and irrelevant to whether AV would've proceeded. I've no doubt had we been in the same shoes, whilst we may have litigated, AV would've been constructed in the meantime. 

If you were a contractor engaged to carry out a major project like this would you risk starting it if you had any concerns that the client might not have the money to fund it? I can`t see any competent board giving it the go ahead under those circumstances. They`d expect to see bonds lodged that guaranteed payments and those don`t come cheap.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Red Right Hand said:

If you were a contractor engaged to carry out a major project like this would you risk starting it if you had any concerns that the client might not have the money to fund it? I can`t see any competent board giving it the go ahead under those circumstances. They`d expect to see bonds lodged that guaranteed payments and those don`t come cheap.

Yes - make the client for the works the 'billionaire' and not the football club, or if it was insistent that the football club engaged the works have it in contract that the 'billionaire' is jointly and severally liable for the payments due, enter in to a labour only agreement so they buy the materials, staged payments in advanced. Plenty of mechanisms which don't need to involve external, expensive guarantees.