Major Isewater Posted June 30, 2016 Report Share Posted June 30, 2016 For four years Lagerback has been drilling his team ( leave it ! ) , repeating thousands of times what they need to do on the training ground until it becomes second nature . Now English show ponies would n't stand for this boring hard training and so we see a ' team ' for Iceland, the whole greater than the parts and the reverse for England. Sean O'Driscoll apparently ' Lost ' our players trying to do exactly this . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dollymarie Posted June 30, 2016 Report Share Posted June 30, 2016 The reason Iceland won? Because their players give a shit and overpaid muppets don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted June 30, 2016 Report Share Posted June 30, 2016 "The reason Iceland won? Because their players give a shit and overpaid muppets don't." If fans care more why are we not professional football players? Surely these players must have put their life and soul into football to become pros originally? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dollymarie Posted June 30, 2016 Report Share Posted June 30, 2016 5 minutes ago, Cowshed said: If fans care more why are we not professional football players? Surely these players must have put their life and soul into football to become pros originally? They give a shit when they're earning big bucks playing for their clubs, they don't give a shit when they're earning peanuts and missing out on their summer holiday to play for their country it seems. It didn't help that Hodgson didn't play the right players at the right time, but look at how outstanding Jamie Vardy was for Leicester, comes on for England, scores one goal and then doesn't do a lot really does he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted June 30, 2016 Report Share Posted June 30, 2016 Jeez are we still harping on about the players don't care / overpaid rubbish? The players always freeze in big tournaments nothing to do with money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted June 30, 2016 Report Share Posted June 30, 2016 "Hodgson didn't play the right players at the right time" Which implies this was not about character (giving a shit), unless Mr Hodgson left out the players with more steely mental qualities. A few weeks ago England beat Germany. The football was fast moving, but weeks later individuals touch deserted them. Why are the German millionaires not suffering from the same malaise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted June 30, 2016 Report Share Posted June 30, 2016 4 minutes ago, Cowshed said: "Hodgson didn't play the right players at the right time" Which implies this was not about character (giving a shit), unless Mr Hodgson left out the players with more steely mental qualities. A few weeks ago England beat Germany. The football was fast moving, but weeks later individuals touch deserted them. Why are the German millionaires not suffering from the same malaise? Down to a weak mentality when it really matters, Germany for example lost to Slovakia last month in a friendly yet wiped the floor with them when it really counted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshtonGreat Posted June 30, 2016 Report Share Posted June 30, 2016 17 minutes ago, Super said: Jeez are we still harping on about the players don't care / overpaid rubbish? The players always freeze in big tournaments nothing to do with money. Got to agree with you there. The German, French and Italian players get paid just as much as the English Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy082005 Posted June 30, 2016 Report Share Posted June 30, 2016 22 minutes ago, Dollymarie said: The reason Iceland won? Because their players give a shit and overpaid muppets don't. I don't believe this for one second. I genuinely believe these players do give a shit. Poor management from start to finish. To many changes to personnel and tactics left them clueless on the pitch. Then a complete lack of leadership meant they went into complete panic mode in second half. I've never seen a team play with so much fear. Why Wilshire and Sterling went to the Euros....let alone PLAYED ....is two of the poorest decisions I've ever known. Don't under estimate how important a good coach is. People keep harping on about how passionate the rugby player's are....yet these are the same rugby players who were a laughing stock at last year's World Cup. Our up turn is down to a good coach using is good players...correctly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted June 30, 2016 Report Share Posted June 30, 2016 But Germanys players are also on huge salaries and playing for "peanuts!!". Could it be that friendlies do not matter, and the England's players do care, but are not near the standard of Germany, Italy, Spain etc? On the big stage that lack of ability imploded versus Iceland. England are second tier, but not that bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted June 30, 2016 Report Share Posted June 30, 2016 7 minutes ago, Andy082005 said: Don't under estimate how important a good coach is. People keep harping on about how passionate the rugby player's are....yet these are the same rugby players who were a laughing stock at last year's World Cup. Our up turn is down to a good coach using is good players...correctly Good example is England rugby. A year ago they were bundled out of our own world cup at the group stage and looked a shambles. A year later, under a new coach and they walloped the Aussies 3-0 in Australia. Basically the same players but the difference is the coach but having said that, we've had a different coaches, including foreign ones, and we still seem to have the same problems in tournament football. I don't think is the only issue by the way. I reckon our problem is that there are multiple reasons why we continually fail to perform at touranements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Its Smith Posted June 30, 2016 Report Share Posted June 30, 2016 If they didn't care why would they be there? They give all match fees to charity so no monetary reason to play. They clearly care but have a fear of failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Three Lions Posted June 30, 2016 Report Share Posted June 30, 2016 No pressure on Iceland. England different all together. Always going to go out against one of the better teams but froze and panicked when poor mistakes put Iceland 2-1 up. That was not players who did not care lying on the pitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jj77 Posted June 30, 2016 Report Share Posted June 30, 2016 13 minutes ago, RedDave said: If they didn't care why would they be there? They give all match fees to charity so no monetary reason to play. They clearly care but have a fear of failure. If they fear failure then why do they do it so often? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Three Lions Posted June 30, 2016 Report Share Posted June 30, 2016 England don't fail so often because they go as far as the team realistically will which is normally losing against the first strong nation they face .. Iceland was the worst ever, a one off but did anybody expect them to go much further? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted June 30, 2016 Report Share Posted June 30, 2016 Look. How can an England International be expected to concentrate on the game, when you have to choose between pink or luminous green paint for his new McLaren?? Wealth comes with certain responsibilities. It's easy for a school boy to put 100% into a game. Not so easy for a Premier League footballer. If the FA respected the players - and had the cars lined up on the touchline (being waxed), perhaps the outcome might have been different. It's sooooooo easy to criticise these total scuffers. Uncle TFR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogkev Posted June 30, 2016 Report Share Posted June 30, 2016 2 hours ago, Major Isewater said: For four years Lagerback has been drilling his team ( leave it ! ) , repeating thousands of times what they need to do on the training ground until it becomes second nature . Now English show ponies would n't stand for this boring hard training and so we see a ' team ' for Iceland, the whole greater than the parts and the reverse for England. Sean O'Driscoll apparently ' Lost ' our players trying to do exactly this . Iceland could well be this year's Greece / Denmark. If they beat France (which is not as insane as it sounds on paper) then suddenly the entire complexion of our defeat instantly changes. Would Lars do as well with England, could he take a team of English hard-working players and do the same? 100% We should have had Drinkwater in the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Dawe Posted June 30, 2016 Report Share Posted June 30, 2016 "Losses loom larger than gains" is how Daniel Kahneman put it. He was referring to economics not football but I think we can be sure that Iceland had so much to gain, and very little (if anything) to lose, with the opposite being the case, almost (there was something to gain). England looked to me like a group of young men overwhelmed by fear of losing and the shame and humiliation they knew would ensue from such a result. The antidote to this fear lies in planning and preparation, which appeared to be inadequate, to put it mildly. Hodgson, the highest paid manager in the competition, sent his staff to watch Iceland in their previous game, whilst he and his assistant went sight-seeing in Paris! Can you imagine a Ferguson or a Klopp or a Mourinho giving off this message of complacency? Unbelievable. You want to go sight-seeing round Paris, Roy, how about the other 48 weeks of the year when you're not involved in a tournament? Nothing to do with passion, I don't believe. More to do with what's between the ears of the players, their mental fragility. That, and a coach out of his depth. The pity is, the few coaches capable of getting a tournament performance out of the players we have available are working at the top European clubs and will not be interested in the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handsofclay Posted June 30, 2016 Report Share Posted June 30, 2016 What hasn't been touched upon is the fact that we don't produce world class players anymore. The Germans, Spanish, French and Italians export their players to other top leagues as well as having a fair few in their own domestic leagues. Who, in the top European leagues, ever put in a serious bid for English players? In fact, who can blame them as our own clubs in the Premier league are stuffed with foreign talent so our clubs don't rate English players that highly either. The one exception to this is when a young English player does display some talent and promise whereupon a top English club then purchases them for an inflated price...way, way above what any continental outfit would pay for them, pays them megabucks and they then have to compete with world class players to get a game and their promise is eroded. Any English player who displays a modicum of talent is swiftly overhyped by our media who treat them as the second coming, the player who will spark England into achieving tournament success. The player and his agent are media savvy and jump on this bandwagon to earn more bucks and to create a brand. The English clubs then buy into this because they want that player associated with them because it sells more shirts etc. Unfortunately, the player usually believes the hype and starts to think they have a god given right to be in the England side. This contrasts sharply with the attitude of England's 1966 World cup winners, several of whom have said that when they put on the England shirt they felt so proud and fortunate because they knew that every schoolboy in the country, and every player at every level envied them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xiled Posted June 30, 2016 Report Share Posted June 30, 2016 36 minutes ago, Jack Dawe said: England looked to me like a group of young men overwhelmed by fear of losing and the shame and humiliation they knew would ensue from such a result. The pressure to equalise built from that 18th minute onwards. The play got progressively more desperate. I lay a good proportion of the blame with Roy Hodgson but mostly because of his squad and team choice. Rooney has been mostly hopeless since his teenage years when it comes to England tournament matches. Apart from his penalty, his performance against Iceland was as bad as any previous. We played no better with or without him which led me to believe that his influence on the pitch was negligible. Compare that to the likes of Stuart Pearce and Tony Adams when they were driving the England team on by example. We have a brilliant crop of exciting young players but we are missing a couple of experienced leaders through the centre of the team. Drop Rooney, bring in a couple of players who will lead fearlessly by example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 30, 2016 Report Share Posted June 30, 2016 Let's face it, in the majority of cases, Iceland win would not have happened... in statistical terms, they are an outlier. That said, outliers happen because the Fates conspire (I'm not a fairy believer, it's a rhetorical device) to make them happen - it's the occasion when accidents that shouldn't happen, do. Roy made bad choices, Iceland were up for it, Rooney had a bad hair day, Kane was just lumping the ball, etc. As much as people like the underdog, this is a tournament and their style of play will be found out and over come (Roy in this case just had some very dark glasses on). You only have to look at Brazil in the last world cup, people could see that they weren't playing well but they made it to the final, at which point Germany delivered a kick in the knackers. As to England and major tournaments, it's called choking. It seems to be that good English players believe what they are told i.e. 'you're going to fail'. It does seem to be a national trait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sixtyseconds Posted June 30, 2016 Report Share Posted June 30, 2016 All their lives they were the kid who could do the most keepie uppies and put their hand up the girls skirts first (maybe not Wazza). All of a sudden they are losing to Iceland and its panic n fear. Mind can't communicate with the spinal column. Loss of all basic motor skills. And all the while knowing tick tock the rotters of the Sun are waiting to define their football careers as toilet brushes instead of turnips ... Felt sorry for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exAtyeoMax Posted June 30, 2016 Report Share Posted June 30, 2016 One thing I noticed was Roy sitting on the bench with his head in his hands…where was his passion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exAtyeoMax Posted June 30, 2016 Report Share Posted June 30, 2016 4 hours ago, bcfcfinker said: Let's face it, in the majority of cases, Iceland win would not have happened... in statistical terms, they are an outlier. That said, outliers happen because the Fates conspire (I'm not a fairy believer, it's a rhetorical device) to make them happen - it's the occasion when accidents that shouldn't happen, do. Roy made bad choices, Iceland were up for it, Rooney had a bad hair day, Kane was just lumping the ball, etc. As much as people like the underdog, this is a tournament and their style of play will be found out and over come (Roy in this case just had some very dark glasses on). You only have to look at Brazil in the last world cup, people could see that they weren't playing well but they made it to the final, at which point Germany delivered a kick in the knackers. As to England and major tournaments, it's called choking. It seems to be that good English players believe what they are told i.e. 'you're going to fail'. It does seem to be a national trait. Brazil didn't get to the final. It was Argentina. 1-0 to Germany. Germany beat Brazil 7-1 before that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portland Bill Posted June 30, 2016 Report Share Posted June 30, 2016 8 hours ago, Cowshed said: "Hodgson didn't play the right players at the right time" Which implies this was not about character (giving a shit), unless Mr Hodgson left out the players with more steely mental qualities. A few weeks ago England beat Germany. The football was fast moving, but weeks later individuals touch deserted them. Why are the German millionaires not suffering from the same malaise? Your correct, nothing to do with money. We have been in this same situation since 1950 except for the odd occasion. The fact is, England have played in 20 overseas World cups and Euro championships since 1950 and in those 20 tournaments we have reached ONE SEMI FINAL!, in 1990. So why would anyone be surprised and look for any new reasons why we failed, we have just gone and parred the Euros! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R Posted June 30, 2016 Report Share Posted June 30, 2016 England has become a team that can only qualify for a tournament and then the manager screws it up during the tournament. We need a manager who won't keep changing the players around and picking out of form players just because of their reputation. That is the hardest problem in the football leagues, to find the right manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I am the mole Posted June 30, 2016 Report Share Posted June 30, 2016 Frozen prawn rings cheap as chips! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trueredsupporter Posted June 30, 2016 Report Share Posted June 30, 2016 That was the one time out of ten Iceland could win. End of the day they are nowhere good enough. England in 96 Seaman Peace Neville Southgate Adams Platt Gazza Anderton Shearer Sherringham McManaman. Not one of the current lot would get in that team. Doesn't matter who the next manager is they cant change what they have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted June 30, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 30, 2016 So I should have named this thread " why England failed " . No one has really picked up on the fact that Iceland have been preparing for over four years and putting in the hard miles . They are a TEAM . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted June 30, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 30, 2016 6 minutes ago, Trueredsupporte said: That was the one time out of ten Iceland could win. End of the day they are nowhere good enough. England in 96 Seaman Peace Neville Southgate Adams Platt Gazza Anderton Shearer Sherringham McManaman. Not one of the current lot would get in that team. Doesn't matter who the next manager is they cant change what they have. Your post is just a bit ridiculous considering Iceland topped their qualifying group ,putting out Holland amongst others and now are in the quarter finals against another squad of show ponies . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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