reddogkev Posted August 24, 2016 Report Share Posted August 24, 2016 I guess the question really depends on what our ambition is this season. Looking at the squad as it stands, if no more players were signed, what can we reasonably expect? My excitement with regards our summer signings has now naturally faded, and despite our general agreement that we have recruited well, have we done enough? Following the recent sales of Ayling & Agard, the release of Waggy, the temporary exit of Burns, and the departures of loan men Baker and Pierce, the playing staff were really down to the bare bones. So we needed to recruit heavily just to fill up our quota of players. I am now concerned that we haven't strengthened enough to challenge in the league over a full season, especially with our unexpected early-season cup run (!), and the injury to Matthews. We've been very fortunate with a lack of injuries over the past 2 seasons, but as all gamblers know, this luck can't roll on for ever. If we want to be competitive this season, I feel we still need at least 2 if not 3 very good players, what are your thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted August 24, 2016 Report Share Posted August 24, 2016 its progress on last season and top 10 should be the aim, comfortably avoiding a relegation battle, Johnson said it will take 3 windows to challenge, we are in the 1st of those windows Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bs4Red Posted August 24, 2016 Report Share Posted August 24, 2016 I'm not sure we are looking to be 'competitive' in terms of winning the league or being top 6. I think we are looking to 'compete' which is totally different and with the squad we have so far we will comfortably compete in this league. A mid table finish has to be the goal and we will be comfortable mid table. Next season will be more interesting. You say about the players we have lost, only 2 of those were playing (Ayling, Baker) so I feel we have actually covered those positions well with Magnusson and Matthews (albeit injury) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogkev Posted August 24, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2016 8 minutes ago, Monkeh said: its progress on last season and top 10 should be the aim, comfortably avoiding a relegation battle, Johnson said it will take 3 windows to challenge, we are in the 1st of those windows Good point with respect LJ's comments, but (and this isn't a grumble, just a query) why should it take 3 windows? Can't we bring in additional players we need this summer to push us a bit further? With the sprinkle of 2 quality (realistic) players, we would become play-off contenders. Can we afford to wait another 2 windows? The teams around us won't be sitting still, and should, in theory, also be improving on par with us over the next couple of windows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocking Red Cyril Posted August 24, 2016 Report Share Posted August 24, 2016 I do feel we need to be very careful about aiming anything higher than being competitive and mid table before the team is ready. The team is very much a work in progress although the early season is very encouraging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phileas Fogg Posted August 24, 2016 Report Share Posted August 24, 2016 3 minutes ago, reddogkev said: Good point with respect LJ's comments, but (and this isn't a grumble, just a query) why should it take 3 windows? Can't we bring in additional players we need this summer to push us a bit further? With the sprinkle of 2 quality (realistic) players, we would become play-off contenders. It's not as simple as that. You have to wait for X player to come available or his club to sign their replacement quite often before they'll sign. 3 minutes ago, reddogkev said: Can we afford to wait another 2 windows? The teams around us won't be sitting still, and should, in theory, also be improving on par with us over the next couple of windows. Yes, we've spent more money than most clubs in this division but regardless of that, you can't just upgrade a squad completely in one window. You have to find buyers for players who aren't up for it and source their replacements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Betty Swallocks Posted August 24, 2016 Report Share Posted August 24, 2016 8 minutes ago, reddogkev said: Good point with respect LJ's comments, but (and this isn't a grumble, just a query) why should it take 3 windows? Can't we bring in additional players we need this summer to push us a bit further? With the sprinkle of 2 quality (realistic) players, we would become play-off contenders. Can we afford to wait another 2 windows? The teams around us won't be sitting still, and should, in theory, also be improving on par with us over the next couple of windows. Ffp, it will take 3 windows because the budget will allow for that. This summer was all about getting a squad together, January will be about adding to that if we get the chance of landing someone who will improve our squad. Then expect to see a couple of 'marquee' signings next summer.................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Its Smith Posted August 24, 2016 Report Share Posted August 24, 2016 If we were offered 12th place with a decent + goal difference then we should all take that now. It seems clear that we will play good football and attack teams, which is great. I believe that next season will be the first that we can realistically aim for play offs. Anyone thinking we can get there now will be needlessly disappointed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berkshire Red Posted August 24, 2016 Report Share Posted August 24, 2016 The reason it will take more than 1 transfer window is about reputation. This transfer window we were recruiting players as a team who finished 18th in the table and just avoided relegation, so to new signings they must have had doubts as to whether this year would be another relegation scrap. Once we become an established championship team that's when better players are attracted and we can get in a better team that could challenge in the league. Sheffield Wednesday and Newcastle sign bigger names partly because players can be sure that they will be playing for a team that will be up at the top of the league come the end of the season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dolman Pragmatist Posted August 24, 2016 Report Share Posted August 24, 2016 No, I don't believe it is. I think we are vulnerable to injuries and suspensions and need one more striker and at least one, and perhaps two, more defenders. Perhaps Vyner will step this season but I can't see any of the other youngsters filling gaps when it matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unan Posted August 24, 2016 Report Share Posted August 24, 2016 Set the foundations this year, I'd be happy with a solid mid table finish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogkev Posted August 24, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2016 1 minute ago, RedDave said: If we were offered 12th place with a decent + goal difference then we should all take that now. It seems clear that we will play good football and attack teams, which is great. I believe that next season will be the first that we can realistically aim for play offs. Anyone thinking we can get there now will be needlessly disappointed. Even though we have no right to finish higher, I'd feel that if 12th place was offered now, that would be a slight disappointment. Of course, I'd prefer us to push the boat and aim a bit higher. Would it not make more sense to strike whilst the iron is hot, add to the decent squad already assembled, and break comfortably into the top ten, if not higher. And out of interest, why would we be in a better position to challenge next season, rather than this season? Consider this year, and the pull of our completed stadium, this should give the club the kick it needs to move on, because there is a risk that if this season doesn't end well, we might stagnate next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
123456789000 Posted August 24, 2016 Report Share Posted August 24, 2016 52 minutes ago, reddogkev said: I guess the question really depends on what our ambition is this season. Looking at the squad as it stands, if no more players were signed, what can we reasonably expect? My excitement with regards our summer signings has now naturally faded, and despite our general agreement that we have recruited well, have we done enough? Following the recent sales of Ayling & Agard, the release of Waggy, the temporary exit of Burns, and the departures of loan men Baker and Pierce, the playing staff were really down to the bare bones. So we needed to recruit heavily just to fill up our quota of players. I am now concerned that we haven't strengthened enough to challenge in the league over a full season, especially with our unexpected early-season cup run (!), and the injury to Matthews. We've been very fortunate with a lack of injuries over the past 2 seasons, but as all gamblers know, this luck can't roll on for ever. If we want to be competitive this season, I feel we still need at least 2 if not 3 very good players, what are your thoughts? You don't half start a load of topics that are just waffly bollocks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted August 24, 2016 Report Share Posted August 24, 2016 I've not seen us play yet this season, but from the games so far ( including two against teams recognised as being very strong contenders for the top two) we have been and are competitive. We've been without arguably our most important player ( Smith) and with last season's top scorer yet to get off the mark and Tomlin appearing to not yet be firing on all cylinders. We also have had a new centre back pairing learning to play together. Given all of this, it's not been too bad a start to the season - for goodness sake we are even in the draw for the third round of the league cup!. It sounds like we are playing some decent football but the only thing missing (and how often has this been said over recent seasons) is that we haven't really converted possession and superiority into goals. Abraham has started superbly, but as a team we don't seem clinical enough in front of goal, and this is where better teams are likely to punish us if we don't take more of our chances. I think that LJ hasn't yet determined his best/settled midfield and think this is being made more complicated by Abraham's current form, in that he seems loath to drop Kodjia, but if he plays both JK and TA then it compromises his midfield choices, but that's what he's paid his salary to do. LJ's comment abut 3 windows being needed is probably arse covering, just in case, but I reckon he is a lot closer to a properly competitive team than that. It might however take 3 windows to have a fully competitive squad and that is what we might need if we are really going to challenge at the top end of the table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestfieldRed Posted August 24, 2016 Report Share Posted August 24, 2016 Yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocking Red Cyril Posted August 24, 2016 Report Share Posted August 24, 2016 5 minutes ago, NeilS said: The aim will be to finnish in the top 6, that is not beyond the realms of possibilities. I do feel we are a good outside bet for the top 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phileas Fogg Posted August 24, 2016 Report Share Posted August 24, 2016 6 minutes ago, Rocking Red Cyril said: I do feel we are a good outside bet for the top 6 It's a bit of a strange situation we're in because we've only played sides that weren't in this league last season. We beat two promoted sides and lost against two relegated sides. We haven't been thrashed by anyone and held our own vs Newcastle and Norwich but haven't thrashed anyone ourselves either. It is a very small sample size, but based on that alone we're not a bad side. In reality though, nothing can be read into the league form until the transfer window is shut and each team has played about 10 games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Cloud Posted August 24, 2016 Report Share Posted August 24, 2016 not in a relegation fight for most of the season again will do me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Its Smith Posted August 24, 2016 Report Share Posted August 24, 2016 20 minutes ago, NeilS said: The aim will be to finnish in the top 6, that is not beyond the realms of possibilities. Who's aim is that? The season will not be deemed as a failure if we finish 8-12th. I think top 6 is beyond realms of possibility. Plenty of teams ahead of us right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cidered abroad Posted August 24, 2016 Report Share Posted August 24, 2016 It will take three windows for several reasons. Recruitment to suit the Head Coach vision will not be wholly possible in one or two windows. Availabilty, price and so many other factors dictate who and when one is able to recruit. Moving on existing players can prove to be as difficult as recruitment - remember how hard it was for McInnes and O'Driscoll to build around the existing squad. The same problem will hamper LJ. Having recruited heavily for the Under 23 squad, we must give them some time in order to give LJ a better knowledge of who out of them, will actually be suitable for the first team. An over large first team squad would only stifle the youngsters development. At present I am cautiously optimistic that we will survive in mid table obscurity this season. although three or four untimely injuries could make that aim a lot more difficult. An interesting season ahead. PS. Last night we pretty well outplayed Scunthorpe who sit second in League One in a way that some Championship sides did to us last season. To become a bigger player at Championship level, we must be more clinical in front of goal and not concede to long balls over the top like we did v. Newcastle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natchfever Posted August 24, 2016 Report Share Posted August 24, 2016 I think we will be ok but nothing more than that. Our squad isn't all that in some areas so a run of injuries and suspensions could be harder on us than some other teams in the division. With regard to the "three windows" comment - if we finish say 15th we won't be much of an attraction again next term either to new players or season card holders so there is a fine balance to be had. Lots of goodwill last season with an expectation of improvement. Therefore I think unless we end up firmly in the middle (12th) it will be seen as going backwards in view of the additional quality brought into the squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogkev Posted August 24, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2016 53 minutes ago, Kotsy said: You don't half start a load of topics that are just waffly bollocks Ha ha, what's a waffly bollock? My wife called me a w*nk-spanner the other day, would that cause a man to have a waffly bollock? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogkev Posted August 24, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2016 45 minutes ago, WestfieldRed said: Yes Short and sweet, I like the way you roll... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChippenhamRed Posted August 24, 2016 Report Share Posted August 24, 2016 I would be happy with a mid table finish. That would mean improvement every year over a four-season period, which is exactly the sort of gradual and sustainable growth we should be looking for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chairman Mao Posted August 24, 2016 Report Share Posted August 24, 2016 21st? Yes 15th? Yes 12th? Maybe 9th? No 6th? :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lrrr Posted August 24, 2016 Report Share Posted August 24, 2016 Good enough to compete... Yes, in that meaning we can be competitive against anyone in the division on the day as seen against Newcastle and Norwich whether we lose or not, realistically top half should be the aim this season, shows good progression on last season and given how strong the 3 relegated sides look it would be no shame in missing out on the play offs this year with the division as strong as it is. So a year for players to gel and get the understanding going between them ready for a push next season could be realistic. Only shame will be we won't (or very likely won't) have Tammy next season so would need to bring in that extra quality again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestfieldRed Posted August 24, 2016 Report Share Posted August 24, 2016 50 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said: I would be happy with a mid table finish. That would mean improvement every year over a four-season period, which is exactly the sort of gradual and sustainable growth we should be looking for. Totally agree. Happy with mid table as long as we're playing slick, attacking football. Another couple of windows to build on the quality in the squad and we can mount a serious challenge in a year or 2. Prem football would be a dream at any time, but when we get there we need to be strong enough to not 'do a Derby'... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted August 24, 2016 Report Share Posted August 24, 2016 2 hours ago, reddogkev said: Ha ha, what's a waffly bollock? My wife called me a w*nk-spanner the other day, would that cause a man to have a waffly bollock? No. A w*nk spanner is what you need, along with a tossers hammer, to put right a waffly bollock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTone Posted August 24, 2016 Report Share Posted August 24, 2016 1 minute ago, downendcity said: No. A w*nk spanner is what you need, along with a tossers hammer, to put right a waffly bollock. Imperial or Metric ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted August 24, 2016 Report Share Posted August 24, 2016 LJ has said we will be playing Europa league within the next 5 years and that is all we need to know. Finishing mid-table this season is a price worth paying to be playing euro-footy at The Gate in 2021/22. Lets not be too greedy too soon, lads. Uncle TFR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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