Lrrr Posted December 27, 2016 Report Share Posted December 27, 2016 For all of his undoubted quality, does Lee just not fit in with City and in turn hinder us? Playing 4231, recently it seems Reid being given a chance as the attacking midfielder, Johnson saying in interviews he wants to get Bobby closer to Tammy for his attacking qualities, however rather than leaving Tomlin out more regularly (Brentford being one) we see Lee pushed out to the left wing where many agree he's less effective. He's a central attacking midfielder, however the seeming persistence with playing him, is it then limiting potential formations we can use? 532, 442 where do you fit him in? Would we fare better with Lee out the side playing a different formation without trying to fit him in somewhere? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dynamite Red Posted December 27, 2016 Report Share Posted December 27, 2016 He is not a left winger, stupid to play our most talented player in a formation that doesn't suit our squad or currently work. If it is a straight choice between him and Reid then Reid should be dropped. We seemed to utilise him well last season, currently the team is a mess, maybe Pemberton should have more influence to guide Lee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHAGa Posted December 27, 2016 Report Share Posted December 27, 2016 Last season he had someone running in behind for him to thread passes to. Sure, Kodjia got slack for being offside a lot but he often made clever runs. This season we're relying on a young kid to do everything going forward, or Wilbs who isn't the sort of player that compliments Tomlin. I think putting Bryan at LB also has hampered Tomlin for that same reason and Paterson has yet to do much, so we've got no real players to run in behind and give Tomlin the opportunity to make clever passes or create space for him to shoot himself. I recall the Posh chairman saying how well Tomlin and Gayle worked together, and it was the same for Tomlin and Kodjia. Like a lot of our problems this season, it stems from the failure to replace Kodjia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRISTOL86 Posted December 27, 2016 Report Share Posted December 27, 2016 It would certainly help if he were being played in the right position! LJ managed him so knew what he was getting before we spent a huge sum on him so the 'not an LJ type player' argument doesn't really work. He seems desperate to get him and Reid in together which means shoehorning one in somewhere else. Lets face it our wingers/wide attacking mids are ******* awful and I'd be very surprised if that's not one of the first positions to be sorted out if we are sticking with 1 up front for the long term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gillies Downs Leeds Posted December 27, 2016 Report Share Posted December 27, 2016 4 hours ago, BRISTOL86 said: It would certainly help if he were being played in the right position! LJ managed him so knew what he was getting before we spent a huge sum on him so the 'not an LJ type player' argument doesn't really work. He seems desperate to get him and Reid in together which means shoehorning one in somewhere else. Lets face it our wingers/wide attacking mids are ******* awful and I'd be very surprised if that's not one of the first positions to be sorted out if we are sticking with 1 up front for the long term. Indeed, if we continue with this system then the wide players need to be fast, powerful and direct. Somebody mention Wildschut at Wigan on another thread, somebody of that ilk would be ideal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lew-T Posted December 27, 2016 Report Share Posted December 27, 2016 Why put our most influential player out wide? Bobby Reid is miles behind Tomlin unfortunately. This may upset some as he's a good squad player but we cannot rely on Bobby as we do LT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dolman Pragmatist Posted December 27, 2016 Report Share Posted December 27, 2016 6 minutes ago, Lew-T said: Why put our most influential player out wide? Bobby Reid is miles behind Tomlin unfortunately. This may upset some as he's a good squad player but we cannot rely on Bobby as we do LT. Tomlin has looked no better when playing in the middle recently. He really needs to shape up or he'll go down as the biggest failure since Djiekanowski. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redapple Posted December 27, 2016 Report Share Posted December 27, 2016 I think Lee Tomlin is a No.10 and should be played there. He tends to either get in the way or float out of the game to often in midfield. Anyway id be suprised to see him stay. Other clubs are sure to be interested. And I'm sure he'd jump at the chance of a move now that our season is over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dolman Pragmatist Posted December 27, 2016 Report Share Posted December 27, 2016 7 minutes ago, redapple said: I think Lee Tomlin is a No.10 and should be played there. He tends to either get in the way or float out of the game to often in midfield. Anyway id be suprised to see him stay. Other clubs are sure to be interested. And I'm sure he'd jump at the chance of a move now that our season is over. Our season is over? What planet are you on?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redapple Posted December 27, 2016 Report Share Posted December 27, 2016 6 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said: Our season is over? What planet are you on?! In respect of promotion I should have added. I had brown Source dripping down my fingers and wanted to finish the sentence ASAP ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gillies Downs Leeds Posted December 27, 2016 Report Share Posted December 27, 2016 9 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said: Tomlin has looked no better when playing in the middle recently. He really needs to shape up or he'll go down as the biggest failure since Djiekanowski. I thought he was decent 1st 20 mins against PNE, when playing closer to Tammy. Then for some reason he started dropping deeper, to the point he was picking the ball up off of the centre backs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Hitler Posted December 27, 2016 Report Share Posted December 27, 2016 Lee Tomlin is our version of Matt le Tissier who can pull rabbits out of hats and win us games; we should be building the team around him in his number ten / support man role and not dropping him out of position to fit somebody else in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carey 6 Posted December 27, 2016 Report Share Posted December 27, 2016 Great assist from Tomlin yesterday. Reid is nowhere near him on ability. Must play every game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivorguy Posted December 27, 2016 Report Share Posted December 27, 2016 Question: Is he much of an improvement on Jet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRISTOL86 Posted December 27, 2016 Report Share Posted December 27, 2016 40 minutes ago, Ivorguy said: Question: Is he much of an improvement on Jet? Yes for me. A lot more to his game IMO. JET has never performed consistently at Championship level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redbo Posted December 27, 2016 Report Share Posted December 27, 2016 Tomlin should definitely play centrally. He's our best player. With the current formation I would play Reid as one of the 2, with Pack, Smith or O'Neil. Reid is great at linking the defensive midfield with the attack. When he plays in the 3, and we have 2 solid defensive midfielders we don't have that link, which forces Tomlin to come deep, and leaves Abraham very isolated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonM88 Posted December 27, 2016 Report Share Posted December 27, 2016 Tomlin most definitely wasn't playing wide yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjak Posted December 27, 2016 Report Share Posted December 27, 2016 6 hours ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said: Tomlin has looked no better when playing in the middle recently. He really needs to shape up or he'll go down as the biggest failure since Djiekanowski. Yeah………but what a failure! He was worth every penny. Jacki was a sozzled genius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshtonGreat Posted December 27, 2016 Report Share Posted December 27, 2016 6 hours ago, Eddie Hitler said: Lee Tomlin is our version of Matt le Tissier who can pull rabbits out of hats and win us games; we should be building the team around him in his number ten / support man role and not dropping him out of position to fit somebody else in. Even at the best of times, I don't think building your team around a maverick talent is a good idea. And Tomlin isn't a patch on Le Tissier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dolman Pragmatist Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 13 hours ago, maxjak said: Yeah………but what a failure! He was worth every penny. Jacki was a sozzled genius I wonder if anyone is thinking back to 1992/93 at the moment? We started with arguably the best strike force outside the premiership in Cole, Rosenior and the mercurial Djiekanowski but consistently failed to deliver and Jacki's refusal to co-operate with the gameplan eventually drove a wedge between him and teammates and management that could only be solved by his exit. The old question: is Tomlin the solution or the problem? I have to say that for me the key to this season is Tomlin's failure to deliver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bs3 Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 The fact of the matter is that we would have 50% less points and in the bottom 3 if it wasn't for Tomlin. He is by far the best player in the team. He is playing well and contributing every single game. Any good and positive play involves Tomlin. He is one of the best players I have seen at the Gate, hugely entertaining, he is a star talent. Yet some on here wants to make him a scapegoat? First it was Freemam then Flint and now Tomlin. The reason is was dropped for the PNE match was because he had a massive row with LJ about being played on the left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samo II Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 32 minutes ago, bs3 said: The reason is was dropped for the PNE match was because he had a massive row with LJ about being played on the left. In what sense? Can't find it just now as out and about but pretty sure he's said before in interviews that he actively likes playing wide to come in on his stronger foot. Clearly one of our most talented players, and hope he clicks soon, but don't think any player should be immune to critical assessment during this poor run. There have absolutely been games where he probably would have had more impact coming on from the bench. He's certainly not dominating games like he did the back end of last season that is for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bs3 Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 I know there was a row about between Tomlin and Johnson regarding Tomlin playing wide. I appreciate that you don't know me or where this information as come so I don't expect you to believe an anonymous source on the internet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 8 minutes ago, bs3 said: I know there was a row about between Tomlin and Johnson regarding Tomlin playing wide. I appreciate that you don't know me or where this information as come so I don't expect you to believe an anonymous source on the internet. Anonymous or not - (Not heard the detailed reason for the row) you are correct that there was a public 'row' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Dawe Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 If Lee Tomlin is our "problem," then maybe this club of ours isn't ready for this Championship malarkey, and we're best going back to what we know and where we are comfortable. Which is League One. Was Lee Tomlin a, or the, "problem" at Middlesbrough? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dolman Pragmatist Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 4 minutes ago, Jack Dawe said: If Lee Tomlin is our "problem," then maybe this club of ours isn't ready for this Championship malarkey, and we're best going back to what we know and where we are comfortable. Which is League One. Was Lee Tomlin a, or the, "problem" at Middlesbrough? I suppose the question is whether the squad was/is ready for Lee Tomlin? Certainly my impression is that the rest of the squad is not on the same wavelength as him, and his on-field demeanour seems to indicate his frustration that the rest of the squad 'don't get it'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olé Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 7 hours ago, samo II said: He's certainly not dominating games like he did the back end of last season that is for sure. Great point - he's not, and while I agree he is a player I want to pay to watch, I think a few are hailing him in part based on performances last season - i.e. what he's capable of, not what he's actually doing. Because he hasn't reached anything like the same heights this season, which sadly is down to the tactics. He doesn't have the same space and options approaching the final third that he had when he either had JK making channel runs OR JK dragging defenders out of position. The Lee Tomlin of this season is characterised by dropping deeper and deeper to get on the ball, in a team with only one up top anyway. Tomlin playing deep with few attacking options and zero pace in front of him, is a really sad sight. You can see his brain working overtime and concluding almost every time the ball comes to him, that there are no options and he'll have to do something clever to beat some players and create an opening. That's the reason I'd give for why he is at times (Wolves included) our most wasteful player - the number of times the ball comes to him and he just doesn't get it under control and gives it away instantly, is one of our bigger frailties. I think it's because he's already thinking 2 or 3 moves ahead, beyond the basics. It's all well and good enjoying watching Lee Tomlin, but I don't want to watch a Tomlin who has to create miracles out of a static midfield. The tactics have got to change, because they seem to depend on this from he or Freeman (or anyone else in the "attacking" 3 behind Tammy) and it's just not working at all. If Tomlin's calling is a 10 role, then by design or his own desire to get on the ball more often, he is not playing there. He and the rest of the "attacking" 3 play so deep off Tammy, in a conventional midfield, that you couldn't call him a 10 or the others wingers. We just don't have those options in advanced positions. If you play him further forward (as he was last season) would he see the ball at his feet enough? Would we create more clear cut opportunities for Tammy? These are the sort of tactical questions that we don't appear to be even considering, sticking steadfastly to the formation and simply alternating the 5. I have a supplementary question of my own here - does anyone think if Tammy wasn't a starry eyed 18 year old who just enjoys playing football, he wouldn't also have had a strop by now about the formation? I feel sorry for him how poorly supported he is in an advanced position, and how few easy balls he gets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 10 minutes ago, Olé said: I have a supplementary question of my own here - does anyone think if Tammy wasn't a starry eyed 18 year old who just enjoys playing football, he wouldn't also have had a strop by now about the formation? I feel sorry for him how poorly supported he is in an advanced position, and how few easy balls he gets. Think he's also a nice, down to earth lad Ole and appears to have taken a liking to LJ when LJ came to his house and think you may find that with LT and some older heads expressing their views he wouldn't need to ' get involved '. (If he has any sense, which he certainly seems to have) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evocare Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 Got a feeling Reid will be off to a Prem club in the Jan Window, some struggling teams fighting for survival up top and maybe think he is worth the punt. £3m? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivorguy Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 8 minutes ago, Evocare said: Got a feeling Reid will be off to a Prem club in the Jan Window, some struggling teams fighting for survival up top and maybe think he is worth the punt. £3m? !!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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