longyears Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 Sorry in advance about the length of this but it needs to be said and as an accountant I will spell it out as I see it. Not to say I am right but it certainly bears thinking about. Everyone just about thinks of SL and Bristol City but he is actually Bristol Sport. Think about it for a bit - Bristol Rugby are in the top tier unlike Bristol City and if ( big if I know ) they stay there then ( say ) five million would buy them nine or ten world class players. A much more guaranteed investment than the same amount spent on football players. They ( Bristol Rugby ) may then get into the top European competition which our football team is light years away from. If they did they would sell out every home game at Ashton Gate at much less cost because whether we like it or not rugby spectators require much less policing than football followers and also drink more ! It may just be ( speaking as an accountant ) that SL has his sights set on Bristol Rugby as the top attraction at AG at much less outlay and that BCFC is the also ran who can provide fairly decent attendances in either the Championship or Division One just to keep things ticking over. If it was my millions I know which road I would go down. Whatever the haters of the " eggchasers" may say there were over 70000 at Twickers for a club rugby match on Boxing Day - how many club games at any level in football could match that. SL is not one of our richest men because he does not know finance and I think Bristol City may not be top of his " return on investment " list at the minute and if I had his money I think I may feel the same. Feel free to disagree but think it through before you post ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Septic Peg Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 Agreed. Of course the rugger is a money making machine especially now Bristol Rugby are in the Premiership. If the team stay in the Premiership this season, crowds will probably increase on this season. If the shop expansion rumours are true, I'd expect the rugger stock would have the more noticeable expanded selection. Whilst I'm sure the rugger makes BS and SL more money, I can't help but remember that SL bought City because his son was a fan first and foremost. He bought the rugby because he saw the potential about linking the sports under one unified banner and because he knew it would eventually boost the BS coffers. Essentially, I'm sure he likes Bristol Rugby but his heart is with City. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cityred exile Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 5 minutes ago, longyears said: Sorry in advance about the length of this but it needs to be said and as an accountant I will spell it out as I see it. Not to say I am right but it certainly bears thinking about. Everyone just about thinks of SL and Bristol City but he is actually Bristol Sport. Think about it for a bit - Bristol Rugby are in the top tier unlike Bristol City and if ( big if I know ) they stay there then ( say ) five million would buy them nine or ten world class players. A much more guaranteed investment than the same amount spent on football players. They ( Bristol Rugby ) may then get into the top European competition which our football team is light years away from. If they did they would sell out every home game at Ashton Gate at much less cost because whether we like it or not rugby spectators require much less policing than football followers and also drink more ! It may just be ( speaking as an accountant ) that SL has his sights set on Bristol Rugby as the top attraction at AG at much less outlay and that BCFC is the also ran who can provide fairly decent attendances in either the Championship or Division One just to keep things ticking over. If it was my millions I know which road I would go down. Whatever the haters of the " eggchasers" may say there were over 70000 at Twickers for a club rugby match on Boxing Day - how many club games at any level in football could match that. SL is not one of our richest men because he does not know finance and I think Bristol City may not be top of his " return on investment " list at the minute and if I had his money I think I may feel the same. Feel free to disagree but think it through before you post ! Spotted SL at wolves , Should he should have been at Ashton Gate ? for the BIG 12 POINTER ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivorguy Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 12 minutes ago, longyears said: Sorry in advance about the length of this but it needs to be said and as an accountant I will spell it out as I see it. Not to say I am right but it certainly bears thinking about. Everyone just about thinks of SL and Bristol City but he is actually Bristol Sport. Think about it for a bit - Bristol Rugby are in the top tier unlike Bristol City and if ( big if I know ) they stay there then ( say ) five million would buy them nine or ten world class players. A much more guaranteed investment than the same amount spent on football players. They ( Bristol Rugby ) may then get into the top European competition which our football team is light years away from. If they did they would sell out every home game at Ashton Gate at much less cost because whether we like it or not rugby spectators require much less policing than football followers and also drink more ! It may just be ( speaking as an accountant ) that SL has his sights set on Bristol Rugby as the top attraction at AG at much less outlay and that BCFC is the also ran who can provide fairly decent attendances in either the Championship or Division One just to keep things ticking over. If it was my millions I know which road I would go down. Whatever the haters of the " eggchasers" may say there were over 70000 at Twickers for a club rugby match on Boxing Day - how many club games at any level in football could match that. SL is not one of our richest men because he does not know finance and I think Bristol City may not be top of his " return on investment " list at the minute and if I had his money I think I may feel the same. Feel free to disagree but think it through before you post ! I think this could well be the truth. I have been thinking much the same. SL may, of course, have a number of scenarios in his folder depending on which club looks most likely, financially, to succeed It doesn't make good reading for City as it clearly says that Bristol Sport is the important issue. This, plus not owning Ashton Gate, could cost City dear at some future point. Something I have been saying for some time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoons Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 So it's lee johnsons fault, the players, the chief executive , the chief scout , the board, the owner and now the business plan???? All I can say is the tea lady better watch out as otib will be after her!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slartibartfast Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 Luckily, SL always says BCFC are his TRUE love,,,Bris are (if you like) his 2nd team . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChippenhamRed Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 39 minutes ago, longyears said: Sorry in advance about the length of this but it needs to be said and as an accountant I will spell it out as I see it. Not to say I am right but it certainly bears thinking about. Everyone just about thinks of SL and Bristol City but he is actually Bristol Sport. Think about it for a bit - Bristol Rugby are in the top tier unlike Bristol City and if ( big if I know ) they stay there then ( say ) five million would buy them nine or ten world class players. A much more guaranteed investment than the same amount spent on football players. They ( Bristol Rugby ) may then get into the top European competition which our football team is light years away from. If they did they would sell out every home game at Ashton Gate at much less cost because whether we like it or not rugby spectators require much less policing than football followers and also drink more ! It may just be ( speaking as an accountant ) that SL has his sights set on Bristol Rugby as the top attraction at AG at much less outlay and that BCFC is the also ran who can provide fairly decent attendances in either the Championship or Division One just to keep things ticking over. If it was my millions I know which road I would go down. Whatever the haters of the " eggchasers" may say there were over 70000 at Twickers for a club rugby match on Boxing Day - how many club games at any level in football could match that. SL is not one of our richest men because he does not know finance and I think Bristol City may not be top of his " return on investment " list at the minute and if I had his money I think I may feel the same. Feel free to disagree but think it through before you post ! I'm not going to argue with the financials because I'm not an accountant. But I don't agree with your point about the 70,000 fans at Twickenham. We took more than that for what was effectively a third tier game for the JPT final. A third tier rugby match would never get near it. And indeed any high-profile second tier game - namely the play off final - comfortably reaches 70k. As of course does any league or FA Cup final. Finally it's worth pointing out that Spurs recently got 85k+ crowds for CL group games. So I'm really not sure what your point is there. Football support easily matches rugby support at the equivalent level and surpasses it outside of the top divisions. I also don't think for one minute that SL's priority is rugby at the expense of City. He is clearly a fan and that is his number one driver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calculus Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 It might just be that Steve doesn't look at any of this as producing a financial return on his investment. If all he was bothered about was a good return there are lots of better ways of doing it than getting into professional sport, and many of them within his area of expertise. My take on it is that he does it because he enjoys it and wants to put west country sport on the map. He has to do something with his money and his life beyond just bean counting. True, he wants the clubs to be self sufficient and prosper beyond his lifetime, but that's just good sense. Relax, is my advice - there's not an owner in the league that I'd swap him for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charliesboots Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 5 minutes ago, Calculus said: It might just be that Steve doesn't look at any of this as producing a financial return on his investment. If all he was bothered about was a good return there are lots of better ways of doing it than getting into professional sport, and many of them within his area of expertise. My take on it is that he does it because he enjoys it and wants to put west country sport on the map. He has to do something with his money and his life beyond just bean counting. True, he wants the clubs to be self sufficient and prosper beyond his lifetime, but that's just good sense. Relax, is my advice - there's not an owner in the league that I'd swap him for. Nail. On. Head. Ask him and this is what he will honestly and openly tell you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Its Smith Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 If Bristol get into Europe they will absolutely not sell out every home game. Nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shelts Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 1 hour ago, longyears said: Sorry in advance about the length of this but it needs to be said and as an accountant I will spell it out as I see it. Not to say I am right but it certainly bears thinking about. Everyone just about thinks of SL and Bristol City but he is actually Bristol Sport. Think about it for a bit - Bristol Rugby are in the top tier unlike Bristol City and if ( big if I know ) they stay there then ( say ) five million would buy them nine or ten world class players. A much more guaranteed investment than the same amount spent on football players. They ( Bristol Rugby ) may then get into the top European competition which our football team is light years away from. If they did they would sell out every home game at Ashton Gate at much less cost because whether we like it or not rugby spectators require much less policing than football followers and also drink more ! It may just be ( speaking as an accountant ) that SL has his sights set on Bristol Rugby as the top attraction at AG at much less outlay and that BCFC is the also ran who can provide fairly decent attendances in either the Championship or Division One just to keep things ticking over. If it was my millions I know which road I would go down. Whatever the haters of the " eggchasers" may say there were over 70000 at Twickers for a club rugby match on Boxing Day - how many club games at any level in football could match that. SL is not one of our richest men because he does not know finance and I think Bristol City may not be top of his " return on investment " list at the minute and if I had his money I think I may feel the same. Feel free to disagree but think it through before you post ! Great post. Wrong though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanterne Rouge Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 I`ve always thought that SL cares more about leaving a legacy from his time on this earth and this is the way he`s chosen to do it with profit never having been the main driver. You only have to look at his reaction to the naming of the West Stand to see that. We are lucky to have him and not some mad foreign owner, long may he be here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 9 minutes ago, Red Right Hand said: I`ve always thought that SL cares more about leaving a legacy from his time on this earth and this is the way he`s chosen to do it with profit never having been the main driver. You only have to look at his reaction to the naming of the West Stand to see that. We are lucky to have him and not some mad foreign owner, long may he be here. Exactly this, the guy is worth north of 1.5 Billion pounds, his background would dictate that he wants things run in a professional manner, and self sustaining if possible, but let's not forget that he effectively wrote off 35M just a couple of years ago for the football club. Bristol rugby being successful should act as a poke in the ribs to the other BS sports, especially the football club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsquirrel Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 i wonder if hes ever made an offer for the avon gorge hotel?? would save a packet on bookings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiale Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 Crowd revenues pail into insignificance once you reach the Premier league though - I am sure that Bristol in the top tier of Rugby would never make as much money as BCFC if we ever get promoted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Its Smith Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 2 hours ago, longyears said: Sorry in advance about the length of this but it needs to be said and as an accountant I will spell it out as I see it. Not to say I am right but it certainly bears thinking about. Everyone just about thinks of SL and Bristol City but he is actually Bristol Sport. Think about it for a bit - Bristol Rugby are in the top tier unlike Bristol City and if ( big if I know ) they stay there then ( say ) five million would buy them nine or ten world class players. A much more guaranteed investment than the same amount spent on football players. They ( Bristol Rugby ) may then get into the top European competition which our football team is light years away from. If they did they would sell out every home game at Ashton Gate at much less cost because whether we like it or not rugby spectators require much less policing than football followers and also drink more ! It may just be ( speaking as an accountant ) that SL has his sights set on Bristol Rugby as the top attraction at AG at much less outlay and that BCFC is the also ran who can provide fairly decent attendances in either the Championship or Division One just to keep things ticking over. If it was my millions I know which road I would go down. Whatever the haters of the " eggchasers" may say there were over 70000 at Twickers for a club rugby match on Boxing Day - how many club games at any level in football could match that. SL is not one of our richest men because he does not know finance and I think Bristol City may not be top of his " return on investment " list at the minute and if I had his money I think I may feel the same. Feel free to disagree but think it through before you post ! This is nonsense from start to finish really. If we get promoted it is worth tens of millions of pounds in the first season and, worst case scenario, parachute payments thereafter. Bristol would get 16-20k max in Europe and we would sell out every Premier League home game. There would be loads of 70k plus gates if league games were held at Wembley for two local clubs, the equivalent situation you are talking about. You mention you are an accountant more than once and then patronise people to think before they post! Shame you didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
internetjef Posted December 29, 2016 Report Share Posted December 29, 2016 A valid point raised by OP, but SL can afford to pursue both at the same time though can't he? Doesn't need to be one or the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogkev Posted December 29, 2016 Report Share Posted December 29, 2016 I don't believe for one minute Longyears is an accountant, and I still have my serious doubts about whether he's a City fan. Thoughts, Longyears? Think before you post, eh? Otib just a bit of silly fun for you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marina's Rolls Royce Posted December 29, 2016 Report Share Posted December 29, 2016 Having passed my driving test- I feel I'm in pole position to comment on why Lewis Hamilton didn't win the World Championship , what his priorities are and where he is likely to spend his income. #Bean counter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unan Posted December 29, 2016 Report Share Posted December 29, 2016 Spoke about before, quite simply, Rugby money (profit) can never compare to football, this is the long term priority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted December 29, 2016 Report Share Posted December 29, 2016 If you're talking about SL as a hard nosed accountant, then the financial rewards for BCFC getting to the prem would dwarf anything that could be achieved by Bristol Rugby, even if they won the Rugby prem and the Rugby European Cup. I also suspect that the sense of acheivement and personal satisfaction this would give him would outweigh (almost!) and financial consideration. My suspicion is that the opportunity to include Bristol Rugby in the Bristol Sport stable was too good to resist, but will not detract from his main aim of giving Bristol a top flight football ( the proper sort) team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Horse With No Name Posted December 29, 2016 Report Share Posted December 29, 2016 Probably not even a City fan. Division 1? Seriously? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longyears Posted December 29, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 29, 2016 Sometimes I despair of this forum ( cue why do you bother to post then ) as I can assure you I am a qualified accountant and I have had a season ticket since 1982 so believe that makes me a better fan than most of you ! All of the anti posts start with the words " if we reach the Prem " blah blah blah and all that is true - if we reach the Prem we will dwarf Bristol Rugby in every sense. Get real - we are miles away from the Prem and as at now closer to league one while Bristol Rugby are at least ( for the moment ) in the top flight. Also who is the idiot who thinks Spurs got 85000 for a match...............? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesBCFC Posted December 29, 2016 Report Share Posted December 29, 2016 6 minutes ago, longyears said: Sometimes I despair of this forum ( cue why do you bother to post then ) as I can assure you I am a qualified accountant and I have had a season ticket since 1982 so believe that makes me a better fan than most of you ! All of the anti posts start with the words " if we reach the Prem " blah blah blah and all that is true - if we reach the Prem we will dwarf Bristol Rugby in every sense. Get real - we are miles away from the Prem and as at now closer to league one while Bristol Rugby are at least ( for the moment ) in the top flight. Also who is the idiot who thinks Spurs got 85000 for a match...............? http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/european/tottenham-vs-monaco-wembley-sells-out-as-more-than-85000-fans-buy-tickets-for-champions-league-clash-a7307286.html Did Spurs not get 85,000+ for a match then? Someone should probably let their accountant know. It's ok though, because a superfan (better than most of us on here!) says so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Maesknoll Red Posted December 29, 2016 Admin Report Share Posted December 29, 2016 Somewhere, a village is missing their idiot........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Septic Peg Posted December 29, 2016 Report Share Posted December 29, 2016 18 minutes ago, longyears said: Sometimes I despair of this forum ( cue why do you bother to post then ) as I can assure you I am a qualified accountant and I have had a season ticket since 1982 so believe that makes me a better fan than most of you ! All of the anti posts start with the words " if we reach the Prem " blah blah blah and all that is true - if we reach the Prem we will dwarf Bristol Rugby in every sense. Get real - we are miles away from the Prem and as at now closer to league one while Bristol Rugby are at least ( for the moment ) in the top flight. Also who is the idiot who thinks Spurs got 85000 for a match...............? Sorry buddy. You just screwed your whole, original argument with that one line. Never ever try and say you are better than someone else. That's arrogance and it's a disappointing personality trait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View from the Dolman Posted December 29, 2016 Report Share Posted December 29, 2016 Go easy on @longyears. He's put everything in bold thus proving he really does have a point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bard Posted December 29, 2016 Report Share Posted December 29, 2016 It says a lot about the human condition that when things happen that are clearly beneficial, people look to find fault or potential fault and failing either of these, imagine a fault. Put very simply, without Bristol Rugby being in SL's ownership and moving to the Gate, we would not have had the quality of redevelopment that we have had. There would be significantly less use of the 'facility', hence it was a less attractive investment due to lower returns. On a purely financial comparison, Rugby is a far more attractive prospect. Wages are, to a certain extent, controlled and it is evident that a side can progress to the very highest levels of the game in a relatively short period (Toulon). Football is a financial basket case with money passing through clubs directly to agents and players. Despite the huge amounts of money swilling around, a huge number of clubs are financial basket cases. I can only think of London Welsh in Rugby who have gambled financially and ended been ruined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted December 29, 2016 Report Share Posted December 29, 2016 With all due respect, why are people trying to make comparisons between two different sports? Rugby has never and will never generate the same income as football on a regular basis. It is watched and paid for by a considerably smaller audience (fan base) with a much smaller commercial appeal than that of football, even at championship level, so therefore, does not warrant or attract the same level of investment, be that at boardroom level or from outside sources such as sponsorship/advertising. Anyone can site one off matches on public holidays where there are big attendances and claim massive support (see Gashead logic). The truth is that, rugby, even at premiership level, creates less income due to lower attendances and considerably fewer games, (11 home games for rugby, as opposed to 23 for football. So 11 games attended by 12k average =132,000 paying customers per season at a fee lower than football, compared to 23 x 18k =396,000 paying customers, at a higher rate than rugby, (those are estimated averages for the season). So it looks like three times as many people attending second tier football than first class rugby. Probably, the only thing rugby produces higher than football, is income from drink sales on a match to match basis and that's only because football supporters are deemed low life that are not allowed to take their drinks into the auditorium. No comparison, and why are we light years away from the prem? We were equally, light years away from being champions of the third tier until we did it. Admittedly, the championship is a tougher nut to crack but, with sound investment, good management and a little luck we could and should be challenging at the top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted December 29, 2016 Report Share Posted December 29, 2016 13 minutes ago, The Bard said: It says a lot about the human condition that when things happen that are clearly beneficial, people look to find fault or potential fault and failing either of these, imagine a fault. Put very simply, without Bristol Rugby being in SL's ownership and moving to the Gate, we would not have had the quality of redevelopment that we have had. There would be significantly less use of the 'facility', hence it was a less attractive investment due to lower returns. On a purely financial comparison, Rugby is a far more attractive prospect. Wages are, to a certain extent, controlled and it is evident that a side can progress to the very highest levels of the game in a relatively short period (Toulon). Football is a financial basket case with money passing through clubs directly to agents and players. Despite the huge amounts of money swilling around, a huge number of clubs are financial basket cases. I can only think of London Welsh in Rugby who have gambled financially and ended been ruined. Bristol rugby went bust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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