Reading - third in the table

[1960maaan]

5 hours ago, BRISTOL86 said:

Been saying for ages how close we are to getting it right. Just a couple of areas really holding us back. 

At this stage under Cotts last season we'd lost EIGHT games by more than a goal compared to one in 16/17 for the same time period. 

If we can eradicate the lapses that are leading us to being on the wrong end of the fine margins we are capable of being very competitive.

Two good full backs would be a great start. 

Attack and defence ???  

[JoeAman08]

31 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

I agree but clearly there has to be a balance and sadly that balance is not right and that should have been obvious from the start of the season, the lack of striker options for instance is unprofessional IMHO.

I understand the ethos behind these signings but it still represents a huge risk and has left the squad light, especially given that this season is a season of consolidation, the run we are on is dangerous and I at this point cannot see where it will end, because we are too soft and even when leading a lot of fans still believe that we will are incapable of holding on to that lead, Monday v Wolves is a classic case in point, I said at half time "we will lose 3-2" and had to sadly chuckle at full time (albeit feeling totally pissed off) because it was and is all to predictable.

Signing for the future is great, but that future has to at least be in the same division that we started off in and that is by no means a certainty as things stand, I think the summer signings were too one dimensional and based on the future and LJ believed Oneil would be the glue and that strategy is beginning to unravel.

 

No that's perfectly acceptable but just keep in mind they're doing this on the go. We aren't doing a slow process of building the clubs stature. I think they think they can get this club to its top form in 3 years. It would take most club 7-10. So yea, we didn't get the balance right in the summer. I've even said that in other posts but I think the club need to get more support during the tough time. 

I believe we'll get one or two to see us over the line this year and I think this year of "struggle" will do us the world of good in the coming years. It's my opinion and the club isn't without fault. Just me personally think they deserve the time to see their plans out. 

[Red Exile]

The Reading match was one of many away matches this season that could have been SO different had we taken our chances or been tighter at the back in key moments...I'm thinking, from personal experience, of Rotherham, Sheff Weds, Barnsley, QPR...more or less every match I've attended has turned on a key bad moment, for a player or official. It's why I don't share the gloom of many, it seems to me that we are close to being an effective and attractive side. What we lack is confidence and the player that Gary O'Neil looked to be earlier in the season, a wise old head who can calm and dictate things. Reading were nothing special when we played them, it's amazing that they are doing so well. Fine margins and all that...

[AshtonGreat]

I wonder if there's a little more to it than the OP suggests. Yes, on the surface losing by the single goal insinuates closely fought matches, but we all know that the truth is we often go two goals down early doors, at which point the opposition sits back, the game won, while we huff and puff and eventually get one back.

[JoeAman08]

4 minutes ago, AshtonGreat said:

I wonder if there's a little more to it than the OP suggests. Yes, on the surface losing by the single goal insinuates closely fought matches, but we all know that the truth is we often go two goals down early doors, at which point the opposition sits back, the game won, while we huff and puff and eventually get one back.

I'm struggling to think of many times we've gone 2 down. Brighton is the only one I can remember. We aren't far off like has been stated. I think frustration comes from most we concede are soft and we do need to sort that but it's minor adjustments for a young group. Look at most the top teams they have an XI full of 25-28 year olds in their prime. We are young and still learning the ropes apart from 3 or 4. Even the likes of Paterson, Bryan, Reid, Magnusson, and Freeman are 24 and under. They've all got lots of growing to do. You can always get better and we are working on it. 

[JamesBCFC]

6 hours ago, BRISTOL86 said:

I can't even begin to contemplate debating with someone who has demonstrated themselves to be so much more cleverer than mere mortals like myself  

If he's clueless then he'll be in good company at Ashton Gate. 

With regards the formation, how many times have we NOT lined up in a 4231 this season? Not many.

Personnel might change but the system and tactical approach hasn't deviated much. It's normal for a new manager to have to spend time establishing a system. 

With so many new arrivals it was always going to be a case of tinkering. There's only so much you can do in pre season. 

He's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't to some. If he sticks with the same team he'll get moaned at (if we lose) that he should have changed it and if he changes the team he'll get mosned at (if we lose) that he's tinkering. 

Some people just like to moan. Who'd have thought that in every game in one of the most competitive leagues in the world that there are 22 players all trying to win a game? 

We're on a bad run. It happens. Plenty of teams much better than ourselves have experienced them. Why our fans think we have some divine right to be immune is beyond me. 

Just highlighting this because just how true it is, but also how little it has been pointed out.

There are people on here who will say he is sticking to the same, not working, formation each week, and then 20 minutes later say he is changing formation too much.

They are using a blatant contradiction to slate him on two accounts.

[Olé]

4 hours ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

Ummm, I find it strange that you should say that, 4 mil of signings mainly on the bench and 2 more who bring it to over 5 mil struggle to even get in the squad, LJ said 2 weeks or so ago basically that some players had reached their sell by date but strangely none of the 4/5 mils worth of players are getting much of a look in, so you can see why some of us might appear confused.

This is what does it for me. I'm prepared to believe in LJ and continue to want to do so, but there is a very confusing disconnect going on between tactics and player investments made in the summer and since. With each new game it's like an ever more obvious Emperors New Clothes farce:

• We are sticking resolutely to specific tactics that are not working, and which I and others have become exasperated with for weeks and weeks now
• We assembled a load of players that we were told (at length whenever Mark Ashton was given a microphone) were brought in to fit a playing style
• None of those players are getting a game in a team losing matches, persistently playing a style/formation/tactics that the managers is insistent on

This just doesn't add up.

• If the manager is persisting with the tactics because they are his chosen long-term tactics, why is he not playing the players he bought to play in it?
• If the manager is not using his chosen tactics, and we're persistently losing (and many of us dislike the tactics), why not introduce his chosen tactics?
• If the players were not in fact bought as long term components of his chosen tactics and/or the present tactics, why did we spend so much on them?

I assume a rough summary of LJ's board strategy for the team is "tactics" x "players", and his plans for each. Since the tactics part has been non-negotiable for weeks now, however poor the results, the only conclusion can be that the players bought do not fit the tactics or are not good enough to fit the tactics. 

After all the post-summer soundbites from Mark Ashton about our deals, I'd guess LJ and MA would refute this - and that's okay, so would I. I certainly would not be writing off any of our signings. It just makes it more and more obvious it is the tactics part of the equation that is broken, however much LJ avoids it.

[JamesBCFC]

44 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

I'm struggling to think of many times we've gone 2 down. Brighton is the only one I can remember. We aren't far off like has been stated. I think frustration comes from most we concede are soft and we do need to sort that but it's minor adjustments for a young group. Look at most the top teams they have an XI full of 25-28 year olds in their prime. We are young and still learning the ropes apart from 3 or 4. Even the likes of Paterson, Bryan, Reid, Magnusson, and Freeman are 24 and under. They've all got lots of growing to do. You can always get better and we are working on it. 

Think we went 2 down at Reading too.

Even then the person you quoted said "early doors" and then the definition of "early doors" comes into play. For me that is first 10-15 minutes, and neither the Reading or Brighton game falls into that category.

[Olé]

8 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

There are people on here who will say he is sticking to the same, not working, formation each week, and then 20 minutes later say he is changing formation too much.

They are using a blatant contradiction to slate him on two accounts.

I don't think that's necessarily fair at all.

Player selection and formation are two different things. LJ has incessantly changed one and stuck rigidly to the other. I can only speak for myself (though I've seen the same comment from others on here for weeks too) but what I'm crying out for is a change in the formation and tactics which at this point I consider to be as bad as anything since O'Driscoll and evidently not working. At the same time we've commented on LJ tinkering every game with the starting 11.

I don't see anything wrong with being exasperated that he can continually experiment with players while accusing him of sticking to this one formation. It is not a contradiction - cycling through players like you don't know your best  team when you're not prepared to adjust the formation is just bizarre given the results. 

[JamesBCFC]

2 minutes ago, Olé said:

I don't think that's necessarily fair at all.

Player selection and formation are two different things. LJ has incessantly changed one and stuck rigidly to the other. I can only speak for myself (though I've seen the same comment from others on here for weeks too) but what I'm crying out for is a change in the formation and tactics which at this point I consider to be as bad as anything since O'Driscoll and evidently not working. At the same time we've commented on LJ tinkering every game with the starting 11.

I don't see anything wrong with being exasperated that he can continually experiment with players while accusing him of sticking to this one formation. It is not a contradiction - cycling through players like you don't know your best  team when you're not prepared to adjust the formation is just bizarre given the results. 

I wasn't talking about the change in players, it is formation in both cases.

There are some who slate him for changing players and formation, and then go on to say he is too rigid in formation. 

 

So it is perfectly fair.

[Olé]

8 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

There are some who slate him for changing players and formation, and then go on to say he is too rigid in formation. 

Really?!? I would be amazed if there were people slating LJ for changing formation. From memory he's only done so in two games this season - Ipswich (H) and Barnsley (A) - on both occasions we went two up top, winning one and drawing the other. Every other game I can remember has been a variant of 4-5-1.

[CiderCraig]

18 hours ago, Jack Dawe said:

Reading have been hammered twice, 5 and 4

Not much of a golf between us then..

[downendcity]

53 minutes ago, CiderCraig said:

Not much of a golf between us then..

Fore what it's worth, they are our bogey team. 

 

 

[shelts]

The table doesn't lie 

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Let's be honest at this precise moment in time, who actually believes that a) we are likely to get anything from tonights match?. b) that a couple of January signings will turn our season around?. c) that the type of signings that we really do need will even be available in the January window?.

The bottom line for me is, we have become an incredibly predictable soft touch and the present squad is plainly not good enough, especially upfront and even more so in midfield.

Again my glass is still just about half full, because I really want LJ to succeed because I really like him but I really believe that he has made the DMC mistake of putting far too much faith for far too long in players that have serially let him down since October and that is because the summer signings were one dimensional.

[Davefevs]

21 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

Let's be honest at this precise moment in time, who actually believes that a) we are likely to get anything from tonights match?.

Why not, Ipswich are not dis-similar to us, but have home advantage I accept.

b) that a couple of January signings will turn our season around?.

They did last season (Tomlin, Matthews, Odemwingie)

c) that the type of signings that we really do need will even be available in the January window?.

They were last season

The bottom line for me is, we have become an incredibly predictable soft touch and the present squad is plainly not good enough, especially upfront and even more so in midfield.

Defo need a tougher midfield

Again my glass is still just about half full, because I really want LJ to succeed because I really like him but I really believe that he has made the DMC mistake of putting far too much faith for far too long in players that have serially let him down since October and that is because the summer signings were one dimensional.

No idea what result will be tonight, but we ain't a million miles away.

[Olé]

10 minutes ago, billywedlock said:

The players (I know) thought we would be a strong play off team this year. So their expectation was far greater. Having created an early points buffer, why did all the confidence drain out of the squad ?

Comparing results (variable) with tactics (virtually consistent) the easiest conclusion is that Tammy covered up attacking weakness that had existed all season. His return in the first two months of the season was unprecedented and elevated the whole team and their confidence. Since Tammy's strike rate has not just levelled off, but been altogether more comprehensively constrained by opponents (keyed into our one up top) a more realistic level for the team has emerged.

I posted stats in a thread two weeks ago - the swing between the first 11 games and second 11 games is far more pronounced against us on our goals scored than on goals conceded - in other words our defence hasn't suddenly got significantly worse at defending, but we've had far less to defend, and by and large have been on the short end of results consistently since the start of October. Some say "only a goal in it - it'll turn!", but it is a clear attacking problem of ours.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

No idea what result will be tonight, but we ain't a million miles away.

Sorry I cannot subscribe to this view, I cannot see the evidence and last seasons players you mentioned are hardly ripping out trees (consistently) this season.

But hey ho, as I said before the Wolves game, with BCFC I expect **** all and that way I am never overly disappointed, so half time was a surprise full time was not IMO.

 

[Davefevs]

8 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

Sorry I cannot subscribe to this view, I cannot see the evidence and last seasons players you mentioned are hardly ripping out trees (consistently) this season.

But hey ho, as I said before the Wolves game, with BCFC I expect **** all and that way I am never overly disappointed, so half time was a surprise full time was not IMO.

 

I wasn't referring to them this season, but that players were out there last season, the ones we brought in all had a very positive effect....no reason to think there won't be similar this window.

In terms of recent performances (wasn't at Wolves), I think we could've easily got points from each of them.  We are being punished for errors, and not taking enough chances.

[havanatopia]

On 12/29/2016 at 19:43, samo II said:

This for me is why the next couple of games are so key as to assessing the genuine progress of this team.

 After 25 games last year we sat 22nd with 21 points and -22 goal difference (the later which put us below Rotherham).

As it stands right now we've a much better GD, 6 more points and have played a couple less games.

Take 3+ points from Ipswich and Reading and I'll be happy to say we are likely improving, albeit slowly.  But take 2 or less and it is feasible we could be at the precipice of a spring time battle for our Championshop status.

I'm reserving too much judgement until post-Reading at home.  Yes; will be distraught if we lose to Ipswich (my best mate is a big fan of theirs, so bragging rights are in the balance) but just feel that if we can grind something out of these pair of games, we can turn the tide. 

I do approve of your wishful thinking Samo! I just hope you have a good crystal ball.

On 12/29/2016 at 20:13, ChippenhamRed said:

Given they've won 7 more than they've lost, and we've lost 4 more than we've won, it can't be quite that simple. That is a swing of at least 11 goals.

So either we have won our games more emphatically or they have been soundly beaten a few times.

As another poster noted they got done quite heavily twice once, i think, the game after beating us. Meanwhile our victories over Fulham and Villa feel a distant memory.

 

[Nogbad the Bad]

11 minutes ago, havanatopia said:

Meanwhile our victories over Fulham and Villa feel a distant memory.

Indeed, very reminiscent of the Del season when we walloped Cardiff and Palace early on.

[Portland Bill]

7 minutes ago, billywedlock said:

I said, whilst others were counting the money, that selling Kodja was going to cost us the playoffs. I still feel that and for me ruined this season . It was a decision we made. We only have 2 forwards and goals in this league are everything. It is why Villa and Newcastle and others who can afford it went hell out to buy the best Championship forwards. I appreciate Kodja wanted the money, but he had 2 years to go on his contract and we did not sign a replacement. Sl made LJ job far harder early on. Tomlin is not the player to sit in behind Tammy. 

Totally agree, Kodjia's head was obviously turned by the Villa interest ( and the money! ), but being played out wide on the wing in the first few games wouldn't of exactly made him feel wanted here. LJ decided that TA was his centre forward and not the 20 goal top scorer from the previous season.

We are now in the position of having to somehow find a very good ( or two ) strikers to replace TA and JK for next season.

Regarding the way we play. The biggest problem we have is not the fact we play with one up front, it's because the one up front is totally isolated from any supporting players. Tomlin would be fine if he played 90 mins as a number 10 sitting behind TA, but he has more to his game than that, hence why he often ends up dropping deep and 40 yards away from where we would like him to be. Ideally Bobby Reid should be getting into the 10 position when Tomlin drops deep, but it doesn't seem to happen enough.

Personally I'm desperate for us to play with some width, it's not rocket science to realise that in English football the majority of goals are scored by teams getting wide and stretching the opposition. We don't do this, LJ seems to see football through the eyes of a central midfielder making 10 yard passes to keep possession, because that was his game. But most midfielders want runners out wide, it gives them far more options, in turn this leads to the wide players getting the ball into the box, where good strikers want the ball. 

One good right winger who can get to the byline could turn our season around imo, I await with interest who LJ has lined up to bring in!

 

 

 

[Olé]

1 hour ago, Portland Bill said:

One good right winger who can get to the byline could turn our season around imo, I await with interest who LJ has lined up to bring in!

"Paging Callum O'Dowda. Is there a Callum O'Dowda?"

"Paging Jamie Paterson. Is there a Jamie Paterson?"

..

"I don't think this microphone is working"

[Esmond Million's Bung]

One post on this thread sums it all up for me, calling for the signing of a right winger, we signed 2 for in excess of 2 mil and neither can get a run of games?.

 

[Portland Bill]

2 hours ago, Olé said:

"Paging Callum O'Dowda. Is there a Callum O'Dowda?"

"Paging Jamie Paterson. Is there a Jamie Paterson?"

..

"I don't think this microphone is working"

 

27 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

One post on this thread sums it all up for me, calling for the signing of a right winger, we signed 2 for in excess of 2 mil and neither can get a run of games?.

 

We signed a left footed right winger ( O Dowda)  who will never ever get to the byline and pull a cross back with his right foot. Then we signed a right 'sided' player ( Patterson)  who will not go outside a full back and pull a ball back from the byline, this player has also spent half the time playing on the left with Luke Freeman on the right!!.

The facts are that we have two wide men who always cut back inside and narrow the pitch, making it easy for the opposition who are quite happy to defend narrow. Also crosses are always in front of defenders, we do not make a back four face their own goal by getting in behind them.

Our strikers ( striker!!) do not know when to make a run, simply because they don't have a clue when, or if the ball will get played into them and where from. Wheras when you have an out and out winger  then at least strikers know they can make runs even if the final ball isn't perfect. 

 

[Esmond Million's Bung]

3 minutes ago, Portland Bill said:

 

We signed a left footed right winger ( O Dowda)  who will never ever get to the byline and pull a cross back with his right foot. Then we signed a right 'sided' player ( Patterson)  who will not go outside a full back and pull a ball back from the byline, this player has also spent half the time playing on the left with Luke Freeman on the right!!.

The facts are that we have two wide men who always cut back inside and narrow the pitch, making it easy for the opposition who are quite happy to defend narrow. Also crosses are always in front of defenders, we do not make a back four face their own goal by getting in behind them.

Our strikers ( striker!!) do not know when to make a run, simply because they don't have a clue when, or if the ball will get played into them and where from. Wheras when you have an out and out winger  then at least strikers know they can make runs even if the final ball isn't perfect. 

 

My point is then Bill, LJ has ****** up in his signings of a right winger and wasted over 2 mil in the process, something that people don't seem to want to admit to for some reason.

 

[Esmond Million's Bung]

And here is a real irony that shouldn't be lost on people, how a team we beat twice in a week away from home and scoring 6 goals in the process currently stand 9 points ahead of us with a goal difference of +12.

[Portland Bill]

5 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

My point is then Bill, LJ has ****** up in his signings of a right winger and wasted over 2 mil in the process, something that people don't seem to want to admit to for some reason.

 

My opinion is the same as yours E. But LJ seemed to think his master plan of left footer on the right and right on the left was some kind of new footballing reveloution that would fool other teams!. The proof is that it hasn't, and like you I believe he wasted £2 million. 

[Fuber]

48 minutes ago, Portland Bill said:

My opinion is the same as yours E. But LJ seemed to think his master plan of left footer on the right and right on the left was some kind of new footballing reveloution that would fool other teams!. The proof is that it hasn't, and like you I believe he wasted £2 million. 

I've followed O'Dowda at Oxford and Ireland for a couple of years.

I honestly think Johnson's afraid to utilise players he's bought in due to the possibility of being judged. If he isnt. Then he's lost it. They cant do any worse than some individuals in recent games - looking at our Joey unfortunately. 

Play SG at LB, O'Dowda on the left and Tomlin in the middle. Then our team is more balanced and comfortable with players playing in natural positions.

It's almost reminiscent to McInnes playing Stead at left wing, with regard to Tomlin, at the moment. Both arguably our best players at the time.

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Portland Bill said:

 

We signed a left footed right winger ( O Dowda)  who will never ever get to the byline and pull a cross back with his right foot. Then we signed a right 'sided' player ( Patterson)  who will not go outside a full back and pull a ball back from the byline, this player has also spent half the time playing on the left with Luke Freeman on the right!!.

The facts are that we have two wide men who always cut back inside and narrow the pitch, making it easy for the opposition who are quite happy to defend narrow. Also crosses are always in front of defenders, we do not make a back four face their own goal by getting in behind them.

Our strikers ( striker!!) do not know when to make a run, simply because they don't have a clue when, or if the ball will get played into them and where from. Wheras when you have an out and out winger  then at least strikers know they can make runs even if the final ball isn't perfect. 

 

Your final paragraph is so true. Although I only played up front at the tail end of my playing days (centre half turned target man), I just used to hate wingers who'd nit cross the first opportunity they got. I used to tell them 'just get it in' - if I wasn't there it's my fault.