Question - If the players truly are afraid towards the end of a game

[southvillekiddy]

Johnson says it's a fear of losing that passes through the side. If he has this view is he being coy or frightened about it himself or is prepared to deal with it?

If this is actually what is happening, and now happening on a regular basis, my question is what are the staff doing about it? Do they discuss it with the players and address the problem. 

The manager - as well as tactics, he has to instill belief and confidence and build a team ethos. (Cue Ferguson)

The defence coach - has to teach them how to switch into an effective defence mode to see out a game (Barlow could do this. We didn't score many in those days but we had the best defence in the League)

The team psychologist (ha, ha) - bloody obvious really. "When you have feelings of doubt about our ability to see out a game, these are the mental strategies you use".

Professional sportsmen are supposed to be trained and be familiar with the mental game - what to do at crucial times. Tennis is probably the most obvious example.

It's different obviously with a team game but it's not enough for anyone to say "It's just football" when it is happening so regularly with City.

I'd appreciate your views mates.

[ontariored]

Agreed. Its the soft, mental skills that carries a team through. There are loads of examples where this has worked, even going back to the days of Bill Shankly withe the rising Liverpool at that time. Not rocket science, but needs to be addressed.

[JasonM88]

To me it appears to be a fear or leading games. As soon as we score we camp on the edge of our box, with Tammy getting no support. 

[Up The City!]

4 minutes ago, JasonM88 said:

To me it appears to be a fear or leading games. As soon as we score we camp on the edge of our box, with Tammy getting no support. 

I actually feel it may be the opposite. We become more confident in our ability to score another and we go after that other goal which in turn leaves us open. If we scored and then continued to play how we had done for the previous 70 mins then we would be able to see the game out better. 

[JasonM88]

1 minute ago, Up The City! said:

I actually feel it may be the opposite. We become more confident in our ability to score another and we go after that other goal which in turn leaves us open. If we scored and then continued to play how we had done for the previous 70 mins then we would be able to see the game out better. 

Really. Did you not see the Wolves, Reading and Cardiff games?

[BobBobSuperBob]

14 minutes ago, southvillekiddy said:

Johnson says it's a fear of losing that passes through the side. If he has this view is he being coy or frightened about it himself or is prepared to deal with it?

If this is actually what is happening, and now happening on a regular basis, my question is what are the staff doing about it? Do they discuss it with the players and address the problem. 

The manager - as well as tactics, he has to instill belief and confidence and build a team ethos. (Cue Ferguson)

7 minutes ago, JasonM88 said:

To me it appears to be a fear or leading games. As soon as we score we camp on the edge of our box, with Tammy getting no support. 

Think you both have something here

Think we just fear .........games !!!

[Up The City!]

1 minute ago, JasonM88 said:

Really. Did you not see the Wolves, Reading and Cardiff games?

Yep, we went chasing another goal.

The problem is were not parking the bus like we should be.

[JasonM88]

3 minutes ago, Up The City! said:

Yep, we went chasing another goal.

The problem is were not parking the bus like we should be.

No we really didn't. We sat back and let the opposition dominate the game in all three occasions. When Tammy scored the second on Saturday we had 68% possession (I saw the goal in the concourse after a visit to the bogs). The game finished with us having only 56% possession. We sat back

[Up The City!]

1 minute ago, JasonM88 said:

No we really didn't. We sat back and let the opposition dominate the game in all three occasions. 

That's your opinion and thats what football is all about. People see it differently. Im only going by what I saw with my own eyes at the time, if I watched it again I may have a different opinion.

[BCFCGav]

It's absolutely a mentality problem. It's like they are uncomfortable with being in the lead and expect to concede as a result. I believe I'm right in thinking we've lost all 7 previous games by 1 goal, because as soon as we are behind we feel we are where we should be.. It's this that finally made me lose faith in Lee, the manager should be instilling belief in our squad that they can win. Our calibre of player is far too high for us to be in a relegation scrap so the problem must lie elsewhere, sadly I think with the manager.

[JasonM88]

Just now, Up The City! said:

That's your opinion and thats what football is all about. People see it differently. Im only going by what I saw with my own eyes at the time, if I watched it again I may have a different opinion.

What about the stats 

[Jack Dawe]

9 minutes ago, Up The City! said:

Yep, we went chasing another goal.

The problem is were not parking the bus like we should be.

We chased another goal v Reading? From inside our own penalty box??

[Portland Bill]

We used to be fairly good at killing games off ( game management) over the years we have knocked the ball out to a winger, he's gone down the line and won a throw in, we then work the line for 2-3 mins at a time and gradually kill the time and the game!

Ok ok, it didnt 'always work, but wouldn't it be nice if in 2017 we could play with a fn winger 

[southvillekiddy]

Going back to my original point. Does anyone have an opinion about the manager and our coaches regarding their roles in preparing the players, ethically, defensively, psychologically?

They have twenty minutes at half-time to say something what about the rest of the week's/season's training?

Surely it can't be like a schoolboy coach saying "Just don't get it. We go into the lead, they get frightened. (I just don't know what to do)"

 

[It’sSmiittthhh]

If we were chasing another goal against Reading, I'd hate to see us parking the bus.

[Sleepy1968]

We were literally at 6's and 7's after the 3rd Cardiff goal went in and I thought we'd concede another. I counted only one worthwhile city attack in the 7 (??) minutes or so we had left to get back in the game. It was depressing (and very weak) to be dominated so easily at that stage.

[southvillekiddy]

Bigger picture please mates. When things go wrong what are we trained to fall back on to change the situation?

[Unan]

24 minutes ago, southvillekiddy said:

Bigger picture please mates. When things go wrong what are we trained to fall back on to change the situation?

I don't think anyone knows, it's not something you really see in the public domain.

[Up The City!]

2 hours ago, Portland Bill said:

We used to be fairly good at killing games off ( game management) over the years we have knocked the ball out to a winger, he's gone down the line and won a throw in, we then work the line for 2-3 mins at a time and gradually kill the time and the game!

Ok ok, it didnt 'always work, but wouldn't it be nice if in 2017 we could play with a fn winger 

Didn't we also have this same sort of problem towards the end of GJ's reign? I certainly remember lots of late goals being conceded and remember Chris Iwelumo being brought in to help hold the ball up towards the end of games.

[Snufflelufagus]

You need to add into the mix the opposing team. If they are losing they already have nothing to lose in going all out to gain level or win.

[Olé]

8 hours ago, Up The City! said:

I actually feel it may be the opposite. We become more confident in our ability to score another and we go after that other goal which in turn leaves us open. If we scored and then continued to play how we had done for the previous 70 mins then we would be able to see the game out better. 

I admire how positive you are in a number of threads, but I have often wondered... and now worry... are you watching the same games as us? 

[marmite]

8 hours ago, Portland Bill said:

We used to be fairly good at killing games off ( game management) over the years we have knocked the ball out to a winger, he's gone down the line and won a throw in, we then work the line for 2-3 mins at a time and gradually kill the time and the game!

Ok ok, it didnt 'always work, but wouldn't it be nice if in 2017 we could play with a fn winger 

Exactly as Cardiff did against us.

[cityloyal473]

Fear maybe.  I'd say its more to do with game management.  We simply do not know how to manage a game.  We are not bright enough, selfish enough, vicious enough.  We are simply too meek.  There is no game plan and because of that no game management.  Basics which we simply can't get right.

[Ivorguy]

It all comes back to the quality of the coaching

Sadly this isn't up to speed at the moment

[Cowshed]

9 hours ago, southvillekiddy said:

Going back to my original point. Does anyone have an opinion about the manager and our coaches regarding their roles in preparing the players, ethically, defensively, psychologically?

They have twenty minutes at half-time to say something what about the rest of the week's/season's training?

Surely it can't be like a schoolboy coach saying "Just don't get it. We go into the lead, they get frightened. (I just don't know what to do)"

 

The players are not being prepared correctly. The team selection changes frequently.

Out of possession a team should narrow down efficiently into two defensive lines. City often merge into one line with players also caught in a no man's land e.g Joe Bryan neither tucked in or pressing.

Defensive cohesion comes from drilling and familiarity with roles. Neither applies to Bristol City's and its  players. Tomlin and Freeman pressing? Bryan getting tight? The midfield despite Lee Johnson high lines, high tempo pressing  rhetoric does not press in that manner.  Each week sees opposing teams allowed the ball outside the box as City retreat into a shell. 

It is not fear that sees Bristol City conceding goals as they are.  It is dropping too deep into t a ill prepared "shape", and that stems from the disorganisation of the Manager.

 

 

[Nigel Mitchell]

You make an interesting point Up The City, - same problem in the last few months of GJ's reign. I am sure LJ must be talking to his dad about the current situation, maybe even taking advice from him. We're doomed!!

[MarkRed!]

This is just alot of "management speak" from LJ. The reality is that we do not defend well enough as a team. It has nothing to do with mentality. Watch the highlights against Wolves, Ipswich, Reading, and Cardiff. The common themes: 

1. Opposition players are given too much time outside of the box to shoot on goal and are not closed down....against Reading this was almost embarrassing.

2. We give away silly free kicks or penalties. Against Cardiff the penalty Little conceded was just unbelievable. He had no need to make the challenge.

3. Positionally our defenders switch off - 2nd Goal Wolves, 2nd Goal Ipswich, All goals Reading, 2nd and 3rd Goals Cardiff.

4. We defended far too deeply against Reading to the point where they were camped in our area. 

For me and it is on other threads it is the way we are being set up by LJ and it is clear: 

 - We dont have that steel in key positions. FF is not good enough and you rarely see him barking orders to the defensive players.I dont care what people say about Flint but he is not a commanding CB. Both he and Bryan were at fault for Cardiff's equaliser. Matthews was at fault for the Wolves equaliser and Moore was at fault for the Ipswich winner. Flint was culpable for 2 of the 3 reading goals and was not tight enough.

-  We dont have any leaders on the pitch.

- There is too much space between the players with the result that opposition players can get at us. It also means that our front players get isolated too often. 

I dont think saying the players play well for 70 minutes and then freeze is acceptable. Plainly, they are not set up correctly and the right players are not being utilized. Mistakes are a symptom of no-confidence.  I am afraid that LJ is full of excuses and "management speak". Sorry Lee, the clock is ticking and when are you going to take responsibility...... It is clear that some players have no faith in you and quite alot of fans are also that way. Your time is running out....

[Portland Bill]

1 hour ago, Nigel Mitchell said:

You make an interesting point Up The City, - same problem in the last few months of GJ's reign. I am sure LJ must be talking to his dad about the current situation, maybe even taking advice from him. We're doomed!!

Same problem as his Dad re falling out with players as well.... it seems....