Midlands Robin Posted February 17, 2017 Report Share Posted February 17, 2017 Picture the scene. You work for a big manfuacturing company. One of your work mates, a welder named Fred, has been off for a few weeks a year taking some business managment courses. Then, one day, the Chairman of the company gets all the staff together and announces that the MD has been sacked and Fred is taking his place. The chairman of the board has had a chat with Fred and been impressed by his qualifications and attitude and is convinced that Fred can turn the company around and increase turnover and profit. Now I don't know a company in the land that would do that. In reality Fred would have been promoted to foreman, then a manager, then a senior manager and after a good few years would have been appointed as MD. Football is the complete opposite. A player spends 2 to 3 years taking his badges and armed with a UEFA A license, can manage a team up to Championship level. The upshot of this is how many players find themselves out on their ear in a couple of years and with no real career prospects? Take Brian Tinnion for example. A legend of a player for us but within 18 months his managerial career was over and that was that. What support do these new managers get when the qualify and are thrust directly into these roles? How many mangers who could have gone on, with the right support, to develop into outstanding coaches and managers have fallen at the first attempt? If you read the FA Coaching qualification pyramid, for UEFA qualifications, the only real stipulation is that you can't manage in the prem without a UEFA Pro License. If you look at the what's covered on the UEFA A course it covers tactics and skills for mangers who run 11 a side teams. Under the Pro license it says 'how to manage a club'. It sounds like there is a pretty big knowledge gap between the A and Pro qualifications. My suggestion would be that all managers who wish to manage in the English league require a UEFA Pro qualification plus two years as an assistant manager / head coach in the league or two years as a non-league manager. This would give newly qualified players a chance to learn on the job from someone already qualified and have a better chance of understanding all the pitfalls. In the long run it would also help to increase the number of English managers and coaches which would have knock on effects for the national team as well. At the end of the day, its and incredibly harsh environment that these managers are walking into and most of them are seeking to extend their time in football but also have famalies to support. There should be far more support from within the game to help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Horse With No Name Posted February 17, 2017 Report Share Posted February 17, 2017 So does this mean that managers of teams in the Champonship who have a half chance of getting promoted , for example Barnsley,would have to rush out and get the necessary qualification , or risk not being allowed to manage in the Prem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Thompson Posted February 18, 2017 Report Share Posted February 18, 2017 Then the fans turn against the manager.He gets the sack and the New manager demands a new coaching team because they want 4.4.2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Balls Posted February 18, 2017 Report Share Posted February 18, 2017 I wrote a similar thread about a week ago about managers needing to do a proper apprenticeship under the tutelage of an experienced and successful manager before taking the step up themselves, after Paul Clement achieved his 4th win in 6 matches as Swansea manager, including a victory at Anfield. My analogy was Masterchef the Professionals, if you have ever seen it, with Paul Clement cast as the guy who has trained in Michelin-starred restaurants as a sous chef, while LJ is more like the self-taught guy running his own "Gastro pub". And the script is horribly familiar in that the one who has been schooled properly has far more skills and can cope with the skills tests, invention tests and challenging situations, while the self-taught guy is quickly out of his depth and left floundering. Really does make you wonder what SL was thinking at the time he appointed LJ? I am pretty sure that it wouldn't have passed due diligence at his other business interest... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishreds Posted February 18, 2017 Report Share Posted February 18, 2017 9 hours ago, Dr Balls said: I wrote a similar thread about a week ago about managers needing to do a proper apprenticeship under the tutelage of an experienced and successful manager before taking the step up themselves, after Paul Clement achieved his 4th win in 6 matches as Swansea manager, including a victory at Anfield. My analogy was Masterchef the Professionals, if you have ever seen it, with Paul Clement cast as the guy who has trained in Michelin-starred restaurants as a sous chef, while LJ is more like the self-taught guy running his own "Gastro pub". And the script is horribly familiar in that the one who has been schooled properly has far more skills and can cope with the skills tests, invention tests and challenging situations, while the self-taught guy is quickly out of his depth and left floundering. Really does make you wonder what SL was thinking at the time he appointed LJ? I am pretty sure that it wouldn't have passed due diligence at his other business interest... I hope not, being a Hargreaves Lansdown customer, though it has crossed my mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Red Hat Posted February 18, 2017 Report Share Posted February 18, 2017 https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2017/feb/17/italy-prize-exports-system-coverciano-conte-mancini-ancelotti-ranieri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exAtyeoMax Posted February 18, 2017 Report Share Posted February 18, 2017 10 hours ago, Dr Balls said: I wrote a similar thread about a week ago about managers needing to do a proper apprenticeship under the tutelage of an experienced and successful manager before taking the step up themselves, after Paul Clement achieved his 4th win in 6 matches as Swansea manager, including a victory at Anfield. My analogy was Masterchef the Professionals, if you have ever seen it, with Paul Clement cast as the guy who has trained in Michelin-starred restaurants as a sous chef, while LJ is more like the self-taught guy running his own "Gastro pub". And the script is horribly familiar in that the one who has been schooled properly has far more skills and can cope with the skills tests, invention tests and challenging situations, while the self-taught guy is quickly out of his depth and left floundering. Really does make you wonder what SL was thinking at the time he appointed LJ? I am pretty sure that it wouldn't have passed due diligence at his other business interest... or someone straight out of catering college. A bit like the Jamie Over programme (Fifteen?) It feels to me, that it was 'fitting' the coach role into the project… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buster Footman's T shirt Posted February 18, 2017 Report Share Posted February 18, 2017 Would have to add into this argument whether or not a good coach is always a good manager. Many of the most sucesful clubs in the past were run by a coach and manager. Take Clough and Peter Taylor with Taylor being the player spotter/coach with Clough setting the philosophy and style and man managing the players in order to get each playing to their maximum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciderrider Posted February 18, 2017 Report Share Posted February 18, 2017 More importantly, is Fred available? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ontariored Posted February 18, 2017 Report Share Posted February 18, 2017 15 hours ago, Midlands Robin said: Picture the scene. You work for a big manfuacturing company. One of your work mates, a welder named Fred, has been off for a few weeks a year taking some business managment courses. Then, one day, the Chairman of the company gets all the staff together and announces that the MD has been sacked and Fred is taking his place. The chairman of the board has had a chat with Fred and been impressed by his qualifications and attitude and is convinced that Fred can turn the company around and increase turnover and profit. Now I don't know a company in the land that would do that. In reality Fred would have been promoted to foreman, then a manager, then a senior manager and after a good few years would have been appointed as MD. Football is the complete opposite. A player spends 2 to 3 years taking his badges and armed with a UEFA A license, can manage a team up to Championship level. The upshot of this is how many players find themselves out on their ear in a couple of years and with no real career prospects? Take Brian Tinnion for example. A legend of a player for us but within 18 months his managerial career was over and that was that. What support do these new managers get when the qualify and are thrust directly into these roles? How many mangers who could have gone on, with the right support, to develop into outstanding coaches and managers have fallen at the first attempt? If you read the FA Coaching qualification pyramid, for UEFA qualifications, the only real stipulation is that you can't manage in the prem without a UEFA Pro License. If you look at the what's covered on the UEFA A course it covers tactics and skills for mangers who run 11 a side teams. Under the Pro license it says 'how to manage a club'. It sounds like there is a pretty big knowledge gap between the A and Pro qualifications. My suggestion would be that all managers who wish to manage in the English league require a UEFA Pro qualification plus two years as an assistant manager / head coach in the league or two years as a non-league manager. This would give newly qualified players a chance to learn on the job from someone already qualified and have a better chance of understanding all the pitfalls. In the long run it would also help to increase the number of English managers and coaches which would have knock on effects for the national team as well. At the end of the day, its and incredibly harsh environment that these managers are walking into and most of them are seeking to extend their time in football but also have famalies to support. There should be far more support from within the game to help. Agree that this mentorship can work e.g. Brendan Rodgers was a youth coach at Chelsea under Mourinho. Mourinho too Rodgers under his wing and mentored him. Their relationship is now strained, so I read, when Rodgers and Mourinho competed ie Liverpool and Chelsea. Also, Eddie Howe... from wiki.... "In December 2006, at the age of 29, Howe was promoted to the position of player-coach by manager Kevin Bond, and handed the task of coaching Bournemouth's reserve team, though he continued to play in the first team. He retired from football in summer 2007, after he was unable to recover from a knee injury.[10] In September 2008, Howe lost his job when Bond was sacked as manager.[5] " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Balls Posted February 18, 2017 Report Share Posted February 18, 2017 1 hour ago, Buster Footman's T shirt said: Would have to add into this argument whether or not a good coach is always a good manager. Many of the most sucesful clubs in the past were run by a coach and manager. Take Clough and Peter Taylor with Taylor being the player spotter/coach with Clough setting the philosophy and style and man managing the players in order to get each playing to their maximum Which is why people have appointed an "old head" as Director of Football, while a young coach learns. The Gas did the same with Trollope & Lennie Lawrence, their slide starting, when for financial reasons they thought they could do without Lawrence. Big mistake! MA is not a Director of Football so not the same set-up. Main worry being that the only "wise head" LJ seeks out his dad, who admittedly has had some success but generally in the lower leagues, and famously struggled managing big egos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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