Russia 2018

[Mr X]

Certainly gives you second thoughts about going out there!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b08flw2v

 

[Benjam!n Ultra]

No worse than the abuse we suffer every week at our local football club. 

[BUTOR]

Don't worry, Russia will likely be a nuclear wasteland by then if things continue at the current rate of decline

[yardy]

Fair play to the reporter/presenter guy he must have some serious balls or protection around him.

Just go up and ask one of the most notorious hooligans in Moscow for a chat while on the terraces! 

Interesting program which just highlights why to not to go to this World cup

[Tipps69]

I think this program highlights why no one should be going to Russia for the World Cup or for any other football match.

They have turned football hooliganism into a totally different battle, none of your drunken, overweight, middle aged fighters. These are people that are out to cause serious harm to people & they don't mind who gets it & won't stop until they decide it's over!! A completely different animal!!

[TRL]

10 minutes ago, Tipps69 said:

I think this program highlights why no one should be going to Russia for the World Cup or for any other football match.

They have turned football hooliganism into a totally different battle, none of your drunken, overweight, middle aged fighters. These are people that are out to cause serious harm to people & they don't mind who gets it & won't stop until they decide it's over!! A completely different animal!!

Yep. About time some the pissed up Dullards got a piece of their own medicine after all these years.

 

I don't agree with the hooligan culture full stop.. but it's about time after years and years of pissed up bellends handing out drunken kickings were on the end of the crap they have bought to football.. and ruined for, your non hooligan types for many years.

 

Funny how many British hooligans are complaining about this type of hooligan now. Why? Would be my question.. I can only assume they don't like the fact they have to put a bit more effort into it now rather than drinking beer and letting feet a fists fly.

[North London Red]

7 minutes ago, TRL said:

Yep. About time some the pissed up Dullards got a piece of their own medicine after all these years.

 

I don't agree with the hooligan culture full stop.. but it's about time after years and years of pissed up bellends handing out drunken kickings were on the end of the crap they have bought to football.. and ruined for, your non hooligan types for many years.

 

Funny how many British hooligans are complaining about this type of hooligan now. Why? Would be my question.. I can only assume they don't like the fact they have to put a bit more effort into it now rather than drinking beer and letting feet a fists fly.

If you think the England fans who will travel to Russia next year (qualification permitting, of course - never take anything for granted) are the same ones who ran amok during the 80s and some of the 90s, you are mistaken. 

There hasn't been large scale disruption at an England game caused by England fans for years. 

[TRL]

3 minutes ago, North London Red said:

If you think the England fans who will travel to Russia next year (qualification permitting, of course - never take anything for granted) are the same ones who ran amok during the 80s and some of the 90s, you are mistaken. 

There hasn't been large scale disruption at an England game caused by England fans for years. 

I don't really care if they are the same or not. Those who follow in their footsteps are just as bloody stupid and ruin the whole experience for everyone else.

[North London Red]

2 minutes ago, TRL said:

I don't really care if they are the same or not. Those who follow in their footsteps are just as bloody stupid and ruin the whole experience for everyone else.

Wow...a bit of a sweeping generalisation there. 

I go to all the England games. Am I one of these bloody stupid people you refer to? Do I ruin it for everyone else? Do I and the thousands of others who've traipsed across five continents watching England over the last 10-15 years deserve a kicking in Russia next year (if England qualify)? 

[TRL]

4 minutes ago, North London Red said:

Wow...a bit of a sweeping generalisation there. 

I go to all the England games. Am I one of these bloody stupid people you refer to? Do I ruin it for everyone else? Do I and the thousands of others who've traipsed across five continents watching England over the last 10-15 years deserve a kicking in Russia next year (if England qualify)? 

Are you a football hooligan?

[Tipps69]

5 minutes ago, North London Red said:

Wow...a bit of a sweeping generalisation there. 

I go to all the England games. Am I one of these bloody stupid people you refer to? Do I ruin it for everyone else? Do I and the thousands of others who've traipsed across five continents watching England over the last 10-15 years deserve a kicking in Russia next year (if England qualify)? 

I don't think he's saying that, I think he's saying that the hooligans who follow in the hooligans of the 80's & 90's footsteps deserve (there's that word again) whatever they get as they ruin it for the genuine supporters.

[TRL]

1 minute ago, Tipps69 said:

I don't think he's saying that, I think he's saying that the hooligans who follow in the hooligans of the 80's & 90's footsteps deserve (there's that word again) whatever they get as they ruin it for the genuine supporters.

Exactly... Unless he is a football hooligan of course and he is referring to his own exploits and doesn't like my opinion on them

[North London Red]

2 minutes ago, TRL said:

Are you a football hooligan?

No, I think it is moronic, as do most right-minded fans. 

This might come as a bit of a shock, but England's regular travelling support these days doesn't contain anything like the hooligan element it once did - most of the offenders from years gone by are still on the banned list. The government cracked down very strongly after Euro 2000. Almost every England away game these days is trouble free. As I posted on another thread the other day, you may get very small pockets of trouble (I didn't see any of it, but apparently there were a few scuffles in Dnipropetrovsk when we played Ukraine away in 2009) but these are very few and far between. 

[TRL]

Just now, North London Red said:

No, I think it is moronic, as do most right-minded fans. 

This might come as a bit of a shock, but England's regular travelling support these days doesn't contain anything like the hooligan element it once did - most of the offenders from years gone by are still on the banned list. The government cracked down very strongly after Euro 2000. Almost every England away game these days is trouble free. As I posted on another thread the other day, you may get very small pockets of trouble (I didn't see any of it, but apparently there were a few scuffles in Dnipropetrovsk when we played Ukraine away in 2009) but these are very few and far between. 

Then you should have no problem with my post as it is quite clear I am talking about football hooligans

[North London Red]

5 minutes ago, TRL said:

Then you should have no problem with my post as it is quite clear I am talking about football hooligans

Fair enough, but it's pretty much a non-point these days given how trouble free most games are and how few troublemakers travel abroad regularly for England games.

(Cue mass arrests in Dortmund next month now I've said that....!)

[Tin Soldier]

Banning orders, cctv, intelligence, bubble games, early am kick offs, has stopped it in the UK. In Russia, they are only just trying to get to grips with all that!

In England, football violence is a mature market place, in Russia it is still in development/growth stage - but to another level due to Putin's influence and a lot of ex military personnel with not much to do. I went to Moscow with Chelsea in the Champs league a few years ago and saw it 1st hand. If thugs want trouble in Russia next year, they will find it, and more. Personally I don't think many will travel to be honest.

[TRL]

3 minutes ago, North London Red said:

Fair enough, but it's pretty much a non-point these days given how trouble free most games are and how few troublemakers travel abroad regularly for England games.

(Cue mass arrests in Dortmund next month now I've said that....!)

I have to say this was on the back of seeing known firms on film complaining about the was Russian organised hooligans were far worse than them and they take it too far.

I agree trouble is no where what it used to be, just tiny pockets nowadays. Unfortunately the sins of our past have ruined it for many who will potentially be on the end of a pasting for being English and male

[North London Red]

3 minutes ago, TRL said:

I have to say this was on the back of seeing known firms on film complaining about the was Russian organised hooligans were far worse than them and they take it too far.

I agree trouble is no where what it used to be, just tiny pockets nowadays. Unfortunately the sins of our past have ruined it for many who will potentially be on the end of a pasting for being English and male

All very true, sadly. And it can make a target out of fans who are just going to support the team, experience a new place and have a good time. 

With a bit of common sense I think the vast majority of England fans going to Russia will be fine. It's just a personal preference, but on England trips I try to avoid the Irish or British pubs in the centre of town (which tend to become rammed full of England fans - but absolutely nothing against those who do - albeit in somewhere like Moscow it follows that such places might be easy targets) and go slightly off the beaten track, and experience the places where locals go.  Insiders' tips always help and I know a couple of Russians at work who've been to a few of next year's host cities. Unlike many, Russia 2018 is a trip I'm really looking forward to (pending qualification, of course!)  

 

[TRL]

21 minutes ago, North London Red said:

All very true, sadly. And it can make a target out of fans who are just going to support the team, experience a new place and have a good time. 

With a bit of common sense I think the vast majority of England fans going to Russia will be fine. It's just a personal preference, but on England trips I try to avoid the Irish or British pubs in the centre of town (which tend to become rammed full of England fans - but absolutely nothing against those who do - albeit in somewhere like Moscow it follows that such places might be easy targets) and go slightly off the beaten track, and experience the places where locals go.  Insiders' tips always help and I know a couple of Russians at work who've been to a few of next year's host cities. Unlike many, Russia 2018 is a trip I'm really looking forward to (pending qualification, of course!)  

 

leads to a bit of a conundrum, you go out of the way to a local bar, in which you stand out like a sore thumb, or stick with the pack in hope of safety in numbers.  

 

Judging by the interviews with the Russian mobs you are fair game if you are English and you are not with Women and children!  Not sure I would want to go knowing that.  I know stuff like this gets blown out of proportion on many world cups, but this time, Russian mobs really do have the the worlds TV and press to glorify their antics.

[bristolcitysweden]

Refuse to go to Russia! Stay in Bristol and watch the games in the Sports Bar. Butcombe and other local breweries could, as part of the campaign, price real ale less than what you pay for cat piss over there. 

Stay in Bristol!  

[Donkeeebles]

2 hours ago, North London Red said:

 

There hasn't been large scale disruption at an England game caused by England fans for years. 

I wasn't in Marseille so if you were I'd accept what you're saying as true. In this video it does say that bottles were being launched by England fans well before the Russians appeared?

[Tipps69]

15 minutes ago, Donkeeebles said:

I wasn't in Marseille so if you were I'd accept what you're saying as true. In this video it does say that bottles were being launched by England fans well before the Russians appeared?

I think that the issue is, when England just play one game abroad, it is the true England fans that travel for the match, when it's for a tournament, more people travel for a 'lads holiday' & they are on the lash for a considerable amount of time & this is when the English play up. At tournaments rather than individual games.

[North London Red]

23 minutes ago, Donkeeebles said:

I wasn't in Marseille so if you were I'd accept what you're saying as true. In this video it does say that bottles were being launched by England fans well before the Russians appeared?

I was in Marseille from the Friday to the Sunday. It's fair to say that 200 or so England fans were far from blameless, and I know some won't believe this but local youths, the French police and Russian fans were also to blame. 

The first trouble started on the Thursday night. I wasn't there (I flew into Marseille from Amsterdam on the Friday afternoon) but from what I heard, a group of locals attempted to confront some England fans in a bar, and the police decided to signify 'it's closing time' in the bar by firing a tear gas canister into it - with predictable consequences. That rather set the tone for the next 2 or 3 days, and no doubt some England fans overstepped the mark - but it was in the face of considerable provocation. 

One poster on the England fans forum said to a local policeman on the Sunday (day after the game) 'you must be sick of all this especially in light of the extra high terror alert in France - this must be the last thing you need' - and the policeman apparently responded 'not at all, we love a ruck with English football fans'. 

Marseille was a hostile place in general, as it was in 98. As I posted on another thread, that photo of a French woman throwing a bottle at England fans summed the place up for me. 

Worth noting too that the English troublemakers in Marseille numbered around 200 out of possibly 20,000 English fans in the city that weekend, and that our subsequent games in Lens, St Etienne and Nice were much more peaceful affairs. 

[bs3]

3 hours ago, TRL said:

Are you a football hooligan?

Are you a football fan?

[RumRed]

1 minute ago, bs3 said:

Are you a football fan?

WTF?

[TRL]

5 minutes ago, bs3 said:

Are you a football fan?

What do you think?

[Rob k]

1 hour ago, North London Red said:

I was in Marseille from the Friday to the Sunday. It's fair to say that 200 or so England fans were far from blameless, and I know some won't believe this but local youths, the French police and Russian fans were also to blame. 

The first trouble started on the Thursday night. I wasn't there (I flew into Marseille from Amsterdam on the Friday afternoon) but from what I heard, a group of locals attempted to confront some England fans in a bar, and the police decided to signify 'it's closing time' in the bar by firing a tear gas canister into it - with predictable consequences. That rather set the tone for the next 2 or 3 days, and no doubt some England fans overstepped the mark - but it was in the face of considerable provocation. 

One poster on the England fans forum said to a local policeman on the Sunday (day after the game) 'you must be sick of all this especially in light of the extra high terror alert in France - this must be the last thing you need' - and the policeman apparently responded 'not at all, we love a ruck with English football fans'. 

Marseille was a hostile place in general, as it was in 98. As I posted on another thread, that photo of a French woman throwing a bottle at England fans summed the place up for me. 

Worth noting too that the English troublemakers in Marseille numbered around 200 out of possibly 20,000 English fans in the city that weekend, and that our subsequent games in Lens, St Etienne and Nice were much more peaceful affairs. 

40-50k was an estimate of England fans in Marseille, whilst there won't be that number in Russia there will still be plenty going, 

I will opt for the safety in numbers option I think, after watching things back and seeing how they cowardly picked off ones and twos I'm not going to venture to far off the beaton track as we usually would.

[North London Red]

26 minutes ago, Rob k said:

40-50k was an estimate of England fans in Marseille, whilst there won't be that number in Russia there will still be plenty going, 

I will opt for the safety in numbers option I think, after watching things back and seeing how they cowardly picked off ones and twos I'm not going to venture to far off the beaton track as we usually would.

I think the number of fans will also depend on the visa situation. 4,000 went to Moscow in 07 when visas were needed (none available on arrival, all had to be done by visiting or sending passports to the Russian embassy), but one year later when 2 premier league teams reached the Champions League final in Moscow, the Russian authorities relaxed the rules slightly (such that fans who had match tickets and were traveling on official chartered day-trips could get a visa on arrival). That same season, however, the UEFA cup final was in Manchester and the UK government didn't waive the visa rules for visiting Zenit St Petersburg fans.

I would hope that for the duration of the World Cup, visas would be obtainable upon arrival. 

Our numbers were decent in South Africa and Brazil, and Russia is obviously much closer, so yes, there will be plenty going no doubt. 

[T R]

If the russians hooligans don't knock you down. I am sure their traffic will, it is mental out there. Also with the russians and ukrainians still kicking off i advise you to keep your heads down. 

[Full nelson]

Did anyone watch the programme about Russian hooligans on bbc4 last night? 

Wow! A man with nothing to lose is dangerous. 

Found it very interesting on their insight to how they view English hooligans and they were spot on! The Russians are now fit, on steroids and have a point to prove to the world that they are no longer a bum race. Back to the point about English hooligans and how they got torn a new ass in France was so accurate! The Russians stuck together and the English were just bouncing up and down, shouting and when it got into throwing fists the English just left fellow fans to take a beating and not sticking together. 

Yes the Russians have nothing to lose and the English have jobs and responsibility to lose. But, you can see why young Russian men turn to gangs because it has a feeling of self worth and being accepted into a family where their parents have turned to the bottle many years ago.

This was the case I saw with my own eyes when I went to Belarus and Russia, a generation where men and women live on vodka as it is cheaper than water.