Gary O'Neil

[Red Exile]

He played very well at the beginning of the season. An elder statesman in the Wade Elliott mould was what I was expecting and it was what we had for a while. I'd anticipated that the side would be build around him and Tomlin, their skills and experience, it seemed that was the case at one point, probably at its most effective in the first half at Wednesday. GO'N's dismissal in the match, and Tomlin's penalty miss immediately before it feel, in retrospect, like turning points in our season...

[Beni71]

7 hours ago, tinman85 said:

Let's be honest. Bar Abraham and Mags our summer recruitment was poor again. 

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, we were all raving at the Tomlin signing and to an extent Matthews given his performances at the end of last season. I think certain players came back from summer very unfit and have not performed.

[Beni71]

2 minutes ago, Red Exile said:

He played very well at the beginning of the season. An elder statesman in the Wade Elliott mould was what I was expecting and it was what we had for a while. I'd anticipated that the side would be build around him and Tomlin, their skills and experience, it seemed that was the case at one point, probably at its most effective in the first half at Wednesday. GO'N's dismissal in the match, and Tomlin's penalty miss immediately before it feel, in retrospect, like turning points in our season...

Totally agree.

Confident at the time of their sending off that the minimum we would get was a point and most likely 3. Turning point for City and GON not been the same player since.

[RedRock]

14 minutes ago, Beni71 said:

Totally agree.

Confident at the time of their sending off that the minimum we would get was a point and most likely 3. Turning point for City and GON not been the same player since.

Yep. Can trace our problems back to this match. 

Think LJ probably went ballistic at a few players for the mistakes -Tomlin, GoN, O'Donnell and that was it!

Where the blame lies? Did LJ overstep the mark or are the players too precious?

Whatever, the outcome results-wise and financially has been a disaster. Clearly the DNA of the manager and some players don't match. Methinks we need a new DNA test kit.

[BobBobSuperBob]

21 minutes ago, Moor2Sea said:

Yep. Can trace our problems back to this match. 

Think LJ probably went ballistic at a few players for the mistakes -Tomlin, GoN, O'Donnell and that was it!

Where the blame lies? Did LJ overstep the mark or are the players too precious?

Whatever, the outcome results-wise and financially has been a disaster. Clearly the DNA of the manager and some players don't match. Methinks we need a new DNA test kit.

I go back and back to his post match interview when he was almost spitting blood about ROD and didn't hide it -  I've rarely ever heard a player spoken about post match by a manager

I asssume this was apparent in the dressing room post match but I really wonder what that post match I/v did in relation to his status amongst a few players , ROD was , as I understand it , a very popular member of squad

[Beni71]

11 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

I go back and back to his post match interview when he was almost spitting blood about ROD and didn't hide it -  I've rarely ever heard a player spoken about post match by a manager

I asssume this was apparent in the dressing room post match but I really wonder what that post match I/v did in relation to his status amongst a few players , ROD was , as I understand it , a very popular member of squad

I really liked RODs approach and desire to do well and his rapport with fans was excellent. I think Weds game was the first nail in his coffin and Brighton at home the final nail.

[BobBobSuperBob]

4 minutes ago, Beni71 said:

I really liked RODs approach and desire to do well and his rapport with fans was excellent. I think Weds game was the first nail in his coffin and Brighton at home the final nail.

I did Ben , the decision to rate him or otherwise was LJs and no problem with that - 

Think the problem was how he (LJ) dealt with that belief 

[BS4 on Tour...]

5 hours ago, JonDolman said:

Fair enough. I thought he was out for a while when we were winning. I should have researched before posting. But 2 of those games he came on as a sub so can't really include them, especially one where he comes on in injury time. Also I was thinking league games, not the fleetwood game. But yeah he's played in a fair few. 

There's been quite a lot of this season that has been utterly forgettable so I totally understand!

[steviestevieneville]

10 hours ago, tinman85 said:

Let's be honest. Bar Abraham and Mags our summer recruitment was poor again. 

Brownhill has got better as the seasons gone on and so has O'dowda to a lesser extent . 

[Davefevs]

12 hours ago, Libertine1 said:

Just a theory, is LJ comfortable managing players who have "been there, done that"?. Especially when things aren't going well.

I don't necessarily mean it as a slight against LJ as I get the idea it was the same with Gary Johnson and Keith Millen.

 

Nail on head!

That is exactly my (unfounded) view.  I've said before that I could imagine LJ giving instructions and the likes of O'Neil, rolling his eyes, thinking 'that is crap, that won't work'.  And yet for all of that, it's the young ones (ROD excepted) he picks on in interviews.  Actually that's not unexpected, he's knows he'd get outed by someone senior, if he picked on them.  Poor man-management.  I don't believe the Tomlin interview was anything other than staged.

9 hours ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Well, O'Neil played in our victories over Wigan, Burton, Villa, Leeds, Blackburn, Ipswich and Fleetwood....so you're pretty much incorrect....

Early doors he was great.  Who'd have though we could play a two in midfield where one of them was Reid.  O'Neil was a big factor in that.  He has suffered with niggly injuries and that hasn't helped him.  A fit O'Neil alongside Hegeler, with Cotterill and Bryan either side would be my pick.

7 hours ago, Mr Hankey said:

Glad im not the only one who thought his post was garbage!

He he.

[BobBobSuperBob]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

That is exactly my (unfounded) view.  I've said before that I could imagine LJ giving instructions and the likes of O'Neil, rolling his eyes, thinking 'that is crap, that won't work'.  And yet for all of that, it's the young ones (ROD excepted) he picks on in interviews.  Actually that's not unexpected, he's knows he'd get outed by someone senior, if he picked on them.  Poor man-management.  I don't believe the Tomlin interview was anything other than staged.don't believe the Tomlin interview was anything other than staged.

Agree with every bit Dave - has been one of my most major concerns as I've said in a number of occasions before the incoming cries of bull****

I don't think you are far from the truth - I've said that IMHO it's no coincidence IMHO that he's defaulted to picking the younger and newer players as a rule 

As regards only outing the younger players in the media - if that is a strategy I'd suggest it's fundamentally flawed as Im certain that senior pros would have a natural tendency to protect them and speak up on their behalf

Whats always concerned me is both the number of players , it is suggested , and it appears, he may be / have been ,at odds with and who

Lee Tomlin - Seemingly not too difficult to fall out with so not really telling 

JP - Possibly along the same line

But GON (As has been suggested strongly to me) had a major fall out with LJ and voiced his opinions - that would / does concern me as GON has always had a good reputation as a experienced , hard working pro and not a 'problem player'

( And that was around / before Hudds game)

Personally , I still believe that a breakdown in relationships (combined with a muddled selection approach , and some questionable tactical approach)  , lies at the Very root of our problems

Quote

 

 

[Red Army 87]

20 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

 

I would assume that we would be right to think that SL and MA have fallen onto LJ's side of the fence over this.

[BobBobSuperBob]

6 minutes ago, Red Army 87 said:

I would assume that we would be right to think that SL and MA have fallen onto LJ's side of the fence over this.

Would appear so RA - I don't know , like you I'm going purely by what's happened- contract extensions , SLs comments re LT etc

In such a situation , if such one exists at has , AG at moment,  My general rule of thumb is back the manager , if he is showing ability otherwise , but you also need to get to the root of any such problems and make sure you know , is it the player(s) or is it the coach ?

SL & MA should have access to all the information to provide such an answer , and , of course we don't 

What and whatever truth there is regarding harmony , there is something fundamentally wrong IMHO, and whatever lies at the root of the problem is likely to see us relegated if it doesn't get sorted , by whatever means soon

[Red Army 87]

14 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Would appear so RA - I don't know , like you I'm going purely by what's happened- contract extensions , SLs comments re LT etc

In such a situation , if such one exists at has , AG at moment,  My general rule of thumb is back the manager , if he is showing ability otherwise , but you also need to get to the root of any such problems and make sure you know , is it the player(s) or is it the coach ?

SL & MA should have access to all the information to provide such an answer , and , of course we don't 

What and whatever truth there is regarding harmony , there is something fundamentally wrong IMHO, and whatever lies at the root of the problem is likely to see us relegated if it doesn't get sorted , by whatever means soon

My outsider view is that LT situation is resolving itself, he has been more involved in first team activities, and not just match day recently. I don't for one minute think things are as rosy as the interview painted it, but appear better than before.

Perhaps GON has been injured more recently, or maybe he's not for persuading as much as LT is.

Either way, we could do with a LT Sheffield Wednesday performance against Fulham!

[Davefevs]

BBSB - I was chatting to a mate last night, who knows his football, done his badges etc, and we got round to this exact subject.  It reminded us of our time playing for one of our (many clubs) under a certain manager.  He was great at bringing the kids through, and some of them were good players, but he couldn't handle 1 or 2 of us who thought his methods, tactics, selections were wrong, and voiced our opinions.  I didn't do it in the dressing room because that would've been unprofessional (in an amateur world), but I certainly let him know what I thought when we spoke privately.

We had really struggled the season before, and started the season well, played 8, won 4, drew 4, and had only conceded 4 goals.  I was captain.  He then started to tinker.  He brought in a mate to play alongside me at CB, pushing my regular partner (my mate) to LB. He started introduces young'uns, some who weren't good enough), but believed everything he told them, at the expense of better players.

We started conceding goals, and losing games.  His mate took over as captain, the first I knew was when I went to grab the armband, and he said 'Fevs, you ain't captain anymore".  We had been so solid, then all of a sudden we were all over the place.

By Xmas, I got left out for a couple of games.  Our supporters asked if I was injured, I just said, no, been dropped.  Was told I wasn't playing that well.  My response was the whole side was playing badly, why was he making me the scapegoat.  My first game back we lost 2-0 and he called me out in front of everyone as having a bad game.  I just ignored him, completely effed off, and walked to the shower.  Unfortunately there was a ball in the changing room, and I just lashed at it, and it went and smashed the shower screen area.  Was quite funny looking back.  

That was when we had our 'chat".  I was probably too honest, and our relationship never improved.  He then started playing me out of position in holding midfield, which was ok.  Then we had some injuries, and I played some games up front.  He was not happy because I scored 4 in 4.  The season petered out for me, even the youngsters started to see through him, and although we were never in relegation trouble we finished about 3 places above it.  We'd been second in October.

There are quite a few parallels with Johnson aren't there?

 

[BobBobSuperBob]

5 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

BBSB - I was chatting to a mate last night, who knows his football, done his badges etc, and we got round to this exact subject.  It reminded us of our time playing for one of our (many clubs) under a certain manager.  He was great at bringing the kids through, and some of them were good players, but he couldn't handle 1 or 2 of us who thought his methods, tactics, selections were wrong, and voiced our opinions.  I didn't do it in the dressing room because that would've been unprofessional (in an amateur world), but I certainly let him know what I thought when we spoke privately.

We had really struggled the season before, and started the season well, played 8, won 4, drew 4, and had only conceded 4 goals.  I was captain.  He then started to tinker.  He brought in a mate to play alongside me at CB, pushing my regular partner (my mate) to LB. He started introduces young'uns, some who weren't good enough), but believed everything he told them, at the expense of better players.

We started conceding goals, and losing games.  His mate took over as captain, the first I knew was when I went to grab the armband, and he said 'Fevs, you ain't captain anymore".  We had been so solid, then all of a sudden we were all over the place.

By Xmas, I got left out for a couple of games.  Our supporters asked if I was injured, I just said, no, been dropped.  Was told I wasn't playing that well.  My response was the whole side was playing badly, why was he making me the scapegoat.  My first game back we lost 2-0 and he called me out in front of everyone as having a bad game.  I just ignored him, completely effed off, and walked to the shower.  Unfortunately there was a ball in the changing room, and I just lashed at it, and it went and smashed the shower screen area.  Was quite funny looking back.  

That was when we had our 'chat".  I was probably too honest, and our relationship never improved.  He then started playing me out of position in holding midfield, which was ok.  Then we had some injuries, and I played some games up front.  He was not happy because I scored 4 in 4.  The season petered out for me, even the youngsters started to see through him, and although we were never in relegation trouble we finished about 3 places above it.  We'd been second in October.

There are quite a few parallels with Johnson aren't there?

 

Totally (IMHO)

(Good post btw - you explain that scenario very well)

 

[Beni71]

3 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Nail on head!

That is exactly my (unfounded) view.  I've said before that I could imagine LJ giving instructions and the likes of O'Neil, rolling his eyes, thinking 'that is crap, that won't work'.  And yet for all of that, it's the young ones (ROD excepted) he picks on in interviews.  Actually that's not unexpected, he's knows he'd get outed by someone senior, if he picked on them.  Poor man-management.  I don't believe the Tomlin interview was anything other than staged.

Early doors he was great.  Who'd have though we could play a two in midfield where one of them was Reid.  O'Neil was a big factor in that.  He has suffered with niggly injuries and that hasn't helped him.  A fit O'Neil alongside Hegeler, with Cotterill and Bryan either side would be my pick.

He he.

I think your right Dave and IMO view there must have been some major training/dressing room bust ups over the last 10 weeks which as shown has impacted results/morale.

can you imagine the likes of ODowda/Moore being in the middle and listening. Must have put them on edge and impacted performance. I do think MA and SL must have had to get involved to broker discussions. 

In terms of GON he has to be in the squad if not in the 11. We need that experience more than ever. Hopefully all those involved in what ever happened can put it behind them. Not easy if trust is broken....

[Charlie BCFC]

19 hours ago, Red Right Hand said:

The signing I was probably happiest about and have been the most disappointed by I`m afraid.

Disagree been good when he's been fit on the bench Tuesday though and was subbed on to close out the match against Wednesday.

 

[WECANDO]

GON is s good player. Has done well for us. He's as fit as anybody else. When he plays, he puts himself about and works his socks off. He's also a 90 minute a game player. He makes himself available and doesn't give the ball away. Needs to be selected particularly at this nervy time of the season. He knows what he's doing.