ontariored Posted February 20, 2017 Report Share Posted February 20, 2017 This is not a LJ out thread. We are currently one place above the drop zone as of todays date. IMHO, it lies with the board. They take the responsibility and accountability of putting the "right", management infrastructure, policies and procedures in place. The board should / does not make emotional decisions but is distanced enough to make the "correct" decisions. If we should fail, then it is up to the board to take the appropriate actions, with the management structure and decision making within the club. Now, with respect, lay off of LJ, and ask the appropriate questions of the management at BCFC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonM88 Posted February 20, 2017 Report Share Posted February 20, 2017 With the squad we have it can only be Johnsons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted February 20, 2017 Report Share Posted February 20, 2017 5 minutes ago, ontariored said: This is not a LJ out thread. We are currently one place above the drop zone as of todays date. IMHO, it lies with the board. They take the responsibility and accountability of putting the "right", management infrastructure, policies and procedures in place. The board should / does not make emotional decisions but is distanced enough to make the "correct" decisions. If we should fail, then it is up to the board to take the appropriate actions, with the management structure and decision making within the club. Now, with respect, lay off of LJ, and ask the appropriate questions of the management at BCFC. Although you maybe started the thread not being about Johnson, I think by post 5, it will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ska Junkie Posted February 20, 2017 Report Share Posted February 20, 2017 IF we were to apportion blame for our current predicament, surely whoever appointed LJ would be in the firing line? Correct me if I'm wrong but surely that was Ashton wasn't it? He runs the football side after all, not Steve Lansdown. I thought SL just signs the cheques nowadays and leaves the running of his clubs to various CEO's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocking Red Cyril Posted February 20, 2017 Report Share Posted February 20, 2017 No it the May's fault she so rubbish it crazy. Sack her I say Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Port Said Red Posted February 21, 2017 Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 Another thread assuming relegation is a given. How depressing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son of Fred Posted February 21, 2017 Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 7 hours ago, 8menhadadream said: IF we were to apportion blame for our current predicament, surely whoever appointed LJ would be in the firing line? Correct me if I'm wrong but surely that was Ashton wasn't it? He runs the football side after all, not Steve Lansdown. I thought SL just signs the cheques nowadays and leaves the running of his clubs to various CEO's. 100% the hiring/firing decision,whomever has the last word-he's the one,see...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted February 21, 2017 Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 Purely the manager, the chairman has given him all the tools he needs, he just hasn't used them, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRISTOL86 Posted February 21, 2017 Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 9 minutes ago, Monkeh said: Purely the manager, the chairman has given him all the tools he needs, he just hasn't used them, Yet the anti LJ posters say that he should have gone weeks, if not months ago. So if that was the case then surely the blame has to go higher up the chain. Put another way - it's not up to LJ whether LJ is the manager here. If a manager takes the blame for continually picking a failing player then why would the same logic not apply at the next rung up the ladder? Is LJ a particularly good manager? On current evidence, no, but he didn't appoint (or continue to employ) himself.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ploppy Posted February 21, 2017 Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 How about instead of apportioning blame for a relegation that has not and may not yet happen we focus on supporting the team tomorrow? If the relegation does happen the inquest should start after. It's the equivalent of a doctor grieving over a patient who isn't even dead yet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Brent Posted February 21, 2017 Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 Your thread is a question. LJ might be the answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted February 21, 2017 Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 Whose fault ? Some say the players , some say it's the coaching staff or even the owner . Others say it's the fault of the supporters for expecting too much or too little but the reality is it's all down to Ontariored and his thread about relegation. Burn The witch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alessandro Posted February 21, 2017 Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 Knowing when to stand by or fire your manager generally cannot be easy in football. I think one of the things that we have to accept about our owner is that (regardless of whether he makes the 'right' appointment or not) he is proving himself to be a chairman who likes to give his managers as much time as possible to turn things around in a crisis. I don't know if that is worse than a chairman who sacks at the first sign of trouble. Success often rewards stability in football, so I don't blame the board for that. I personally would rather the manager is given a few extra months so we can find out if they can steer us out the crisis. We will be stronger in the long run for it. But those few months have to stop somewhere, and for me, that end has to be very close indeed for LJ if results don't come over the next few games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinman85 Posted February 21, 2017 Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 9 hours ago, ontariored said: This is not a LJ out thread. We are currently one place above the drop zone as of todays date. IMHO, it lies with the board. They take the responsibility and accountability of putting the "right", management infrastructure, policies and procedures in place. The board should / does not make emotional decisions but is distanced enough to make the "correct" decisions. If we should fail, then it is up to the board to take the appropriate actions, with the management structure and decision making within the club. Now, with respect, lay off of LJ, and ask the appropriate questions of the management at BCFC. Mark Ashton. Should never have recommended a new contract for LJ. Madness. Also in hindsight our summer recruitment bar one or two was average. Having said that LJ clearly is out of his depth so rather than blame him I would say the board take responsibility for not making the change after the Cardiff debacle. LJ picks the team and ultimately it is his lack of experience and tactical nous which will send us down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nogbad the Bad Posted February 21, 2017 Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 9 hours ago, 8menhadadream said: IF we were to apportion blame for our current predicament, surely whoever appointed LJ would be in the firing line? Correct me if I'm wrong but surely that was Ashton wasn't it? He runs the football side after all, not Steve Lansdown. I thought SL just signs the cheques nowadays and leaves the running of his clubs to various CEO's. SL makes the big decisions, MA is just the mouthpiece. IF MA really was making such decisions I suspect LJ would have gone some time ago. It is SL, his project, and a long time wish to see LJ as the coach to deliver it, that keeps him in situ imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedM Posted February 21, 2017 Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 Not the fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ska Junkie Posted February 21, 2017 Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 1 hour ago, Nogbad the Bad said: SL makes the big decisions, MA is just the mouthpiece. IF MA really was making such decisions I suspect LJ would have gone some time ago. It is SL, his project, and a long time wish to see LJ as the coach to deliver it, that keeps him in situ imo. Fair enough NtB but I thought SL works from MA's recommendations? I guess that would make both culpable. I'm in total agreement that SL has the overall veto but I wonder if we aren't underestimating MA's role? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipdawg Posted February 21, 2017 Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 I don't think we'll get relegated, so I can't really answer the question Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipdawg Posted February 21, 2017 Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 5 minutes ago, Bullbag said: Stephen Landsdown. Heso made some truly horrific decisions. And appointing Johnson as the 'outstanding candidate' was quite possibly the worst of them all. Complete shambles. Were you saying that last May when Johnson comfortably kept us up? And why is the Johnson hire worse than, say, McInnes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Journalist Posted February 21, 2017 Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 It's my fault. I've really supported Lee Johnson, but clearly it was all fake news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southvillekiddy Posted February 21, 2017 Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 It's not the Board. Effectively we have no Board. We have an owner and our current predicament is his fault (in protecting his own position) for choosing the wrong person yet again - a person unqualified to carry out what he claims he wants for BCFC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pillred Posted February 21, 2017 Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 3 hours ago, Monkeh said: Purely the manager, the chairman has given him all the tools he needs, he just hasn't used them, yes a poor tool cant blame the workmen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjam!n Ultra Posted February 21, 2017 Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 Without a doubt it will be Lansdown's. He needs no further evidence against his bizarre decision to appoint LJ and then continue to stick with him beyond record losing streaks and a rather pathetic 3 wins in 21 or whatever it is now. He's allowing the club to sleepwalk in to League One because he doesn't have strength to admit he was wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted February 21, 2017 Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 I think the board, LJ and the players would have to share the responsibility. Whatever you think of the manager these players are under performing big time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ska Junkie Posted February 21, 2017 Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 I'm still not convinced SL is acting alone. I appreciate he has the power to do whatever he likes but why employ someone to 'run the football side' and then walk all over him? maybe I'm being naive but I could have sworn it was MA who said LJ was the outstanding candidate and recommended him to the board / SL? Why he (LJ) is still here I have no idea but where's our football CEO when we need to hear from him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipdawg Posted February 21, 2017 Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 36 minutes ago, Bullbag said: I've said it before, John Pemberton had as much to do with that as Johnson. It was Pembo that changed our shape and made us more solid. McInnes never had as much quality in his squad than what Johnson has had to work with. I agree with your second point, but you have absolutely no proof for your first. And even if it was true, you can't completely remove credit from Johnson for that or for our decent start to the season Lee Johnson is what he is; a young, inexperienced coach who is learning on the job. I don't think anyone (including himself and his boss, SL) would expect a young, inexperienced coach to be flawless in his management. Whether that's an acceptable situation to our club in our predicament right now is debateable, but too often the debate about Johnson descends into hysterical hyperbole and revisionist history Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ska Junkie Posted February 21, 2017 Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 3 minutes ago, chipdawg said: I agree with your second point, but you have absolutely no proof for your first. And even if it was true, you can't completely remove credit from Johnson for that or for our decent start to the season Lee Johnson is what he is; a young, inexperienced coach who is learning on the job. I don't think anyone (including himself and his boss, SL) would expect a young, inexperienced coach to be flawless in his management. Whether that's an acceptable situation to our club in our predicament right now is debateable, but too often the debate about Johnson descends into hysterical hyperbole and revisionist history All valid points Chipdawg but what's the potential answer then? Going down would be an absolute disaster both financially and for ambition. Should the powers that be be looking at experienced help while LJ 'learns on the job' or do they stick or twist and look the serious result of relegation square in the face? It's very concerning for the future of the club IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted February 21, 2017 Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 If we do get relegated - which is a strong possibility if things / people don't change, responsibility:- 1) Chairman 2) Board of Directors 3) Manager 4) Players 5) Bad luck 6) Us. Apart from 5), all these people want us to do well, and it is not for want of money. The only one you can't change is 6). What is needed is a change of 3) and a bit of 4), even though we have signed 19 new players whilst 3) has been in place. Now: whose 'fault' is that? Only Happy Clappers need reply ............. tfj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ska Junkie Posted February 21, 2017 Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 I'm definitely no happy clapper tfj but how the hell are we, just the plain old fans, to blame in any way for this fiasco? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipdawg Posted February 21, 2017 Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 7 minutes ago, 8menhadadream said: All valid points Chipdawg but what's the potential answer then? Going down would be an absolute disaster both financially and for ambition. Should the powers that be be looking at experienced help while LJ 'learns on the job' or do they stick or twist and look the serious result of relegation square in the face? It's very concerning for the future of the club IMHO. I don't really have an answer, I guess what I'm trying to say is that we should probably stop trying to apportion blame because no one is really 'to blame'; LJ is just being the inexperienced, learn-on-the-job coach that he obviously is. SL/the board/Mark Ashton made a decision to take a risk that his learning curve would be sufficiently steep- at times he's looked ahead of that curve and right now he looks like he's behind it. My personal feeling is that we'll stay up with LJ in charge because we have got a bit better in recent weeks, our fixture list gets a bit better after next week and there are other teams playing poorly which means we've been able to keep our heads above water. Is it a risk to keep him in charge? Yes, absolutely. But there are no such things as sure bets in football and there is no guarantee that the new guy would make things better. My loyalty is always to BCFC, not the coach, the board or the players. But the dice were rolled a year ago or so and I think we have to keep playing the game to see if we win (or rather, don't lose) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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