Is Engvall really THAT bad?

[headhunter]

Reading the headline on the official site "Fitness race for City pair" I'm thinking why are we hoping to have Djuric and Abraham available for selection when we have Taylor and Engvall fit and ready to go with Wilbs as a sub. 

Tammy hasn't played for 2.5 weeks and has not even been in Bristol training with the squad and hearing the pearls of wisdom of how to beat Burton from our fabulous coaching team and Djuric, well our one in 5 ratio striker is not that special

If LJ repeats his Rotherham tactics of one up front the issue of a shortage up front is further reduced.

But hang on we have a £2m Swedish lad called Engvall who didn't look so bad against Hull and who has been chomping at the bit for involvement. Is he really, really so *rap that he probably won't even feature today - if so, what a waste of money and someone should be held to account for that!

I almost forgot, we have one of this season's leading scorers from League 1 who has already scored 2 goals for us - Matt Taylor; Even as a sole striker he would bring some mobility to the front line.

We don't have a major problem scoring goals but our defence is shipping 2 per game. We seem to rotate wing backs, full backs whatever but there is one common thread through this defensive shambles......

I'm a great fan of Flint but is he really THAT good that we can't at least give it a try without him, i.e. Wright and Mags

Will be interesting to see how we line up against the might Burton Albion this afternoon.

COYR 

 

 

[GrahamC]

To answer your question we simply don't know, he has had too little game time to form a judgment and also when he has got on the pitch it has been 20 minutes here and there, then nothing for a few weeks.

You are spot on about the defence, we are the highest scorers in the bottom six, so up front is not where the problem lies.

In that run of 4 tough away games we scored 6 goals, that should have earned us a minimum of 5 points, but because we are so weak at the back we got 2.

[Dr Balls]

The couple of times I have seen anything of Engvall he has looked lively and linked up well with other attacking players. Whether he has much of a shot or goal scoring ability is a completely open question unless you have seen him in training, which counts out pretty much everyone on here.

As noted above our problem is our defence. Only 5 clean sheets in the league in 34 games and only 2 since October, against Ipswich & Rotherham. If we want to stay up that's what needs sorting out.

[glastonred]

I don't get why people don't seem to rate Flint. Many times he's shown fight and passion for the cause, and cleared off the line several times. For me he has earned his ever-presence in defence this season.

[Mike Hunt-Hertz]

1 hour ago, headhunter said:

Reading the headline on the official site "Fitness race for City pair" I'm thinking why are we hoping to have Djuric and Abraham available for selection when we have Taylor and Engvall fit and ready to go with Wilbs as a sub. 

Tammy hasn't played for 2.5 weeks and has not even been in Bristol training with the squad and hearing the pearls of wisdom of how to beat Burton from our fabulous coaching team and Djuric, well our one in 5 ratio striker is not that special

If LJ repeats his Rotherham tactics of one up front the issue of a shortage up front is further reduced.

But hang on we have a £2m Swedish lad called Engvall who didn't look so bad against Hull and who has been chomping at the bit for involvement. Is he really, really so *rap that he probably won't even feature today - if so, what a waste of money and someone should be held to account for that!

I almost forgot, we have one of this season's leading scorers from League 1 who has already scored 2 goals for us - Matt Taylor; Even as a sole striker he would bring some mobility to the front line.

We don't have a major problem scoring goals but our defence is shipping 2 per game. We seem to rotate wing backs, full backs whatever but there is one common thread through this defensive shambles......

I'm a great fan of Flint but is he really THAT good that we can't at least give it a try without him, i.e. Wright and Mags

Will be interesting to see how we line up against the might Burton Albion this afternoon.

COYR 

 

 

Ours is not to reason why......

[Ashtonwurzel]

Something not right off the field for Engvall - IMO.

If he was fit, willing and able to play he would have at least made the bench in the majority of our games.

Not buying this "one for the future" in his case, Tyler Moore makes sense but Engvall not so much.

[DT The Optimist]

Serious questions have to be asked about Engvall to  Mark Ashton and LJ. 

Who scouted him and was responsible for bringing him to the club, did SL know we were spending a sum between 1 and 2 MILLION (none of us really have a clue what the truth is re the fee) on a development player ?  A player who will get no game time.

What sort of right back could we have got with that sort of money. 

This signing on the face of it is total nonsense.

 

[JoeAman08]

15 minutes ago, glastonred said:

I don't get why people don't seem to rate Flint. Many times he's shown fight and passion for the cause, and cleared off the line several times. For me he has earned his ever-presence in defence this season.

Because he's the only player that has been on the pitch for all 52 goals against us in the league. Because he's too slow and not sharp enough to read danger earlier and cut it out. Because he's allows players to get the ball to their feet without challenging them. Because he's too nice and won't take a foul to help us out. Because he loves giving the ball back to the other team with his head when a nice cushioned header to a midfielder would suffice. 

I never question Flint's desire and passion for the club. I never question his motor and he wants to win just as much as the fans want them to win. He's just not a great defender or footballer. If he wasn't 6'6" and scored a few goals he wouldn't be near the championship. I'm not sure he'd get into Rotherham's starting 2 centre halves. When the ball is lumped forward in the air is the only time he's the superior player on the pitch. Watch Flint come to pressure a man with the ball at his feet, he gives them the time to control and lay it off to someone while maybe getting his outstretched hand on his back a bit. By then he's out of position. Watch Bailey Wright do the same. He will harass, push and kick the player until they lose it or they draw the foul. Point is the ball rarely goes behind Wright in these situations and we can set back up. Magnusson isn't as gritty as Wright but makes up for that with positional awareness, composite and will keep possession. 

Anyway it's just my opinions on Flint and the other two centre halves. I'm not 100% sure Wright and Magnusson partnership would work but I'd be willing to give Flint a rest which he probably needs and deserves to find out. It's not like if we concede more it will hurt at the moment. We are conceding so much that most teams wouldn't have the goals in them. 

On Engvall, I don't think he's a bad player. I don't think he was meant to play much this season but I don't feel it is all right behind the scenes either. Surely would've gotten a few more appearances in game and on the bench especially recently. Funnily enough, from what I've seen of him, he'd help us play 442 because he likes linking up play and he doesn't mind closing down when we are off the ball. Him and Djuric would be an interesting combo IMO but I wouldn't know if they would have the goals in them. I think it would help out the wingers scoring though. 

[JoeAman08]

11 minutes ago, DT The Optimist said:

Serious questions have to be asked about Engvall to  Mark Ashton and LJ. 

Who scouted him and was responsible for bringing him to the club, did SL know we were spending a sum between 1 and 2 MILLION (none of us really have a clue what the truth is re the fee) on a development player ?  A player who will get no game time.

What sort of right back could we have got with that sort of money. 

This signing on the face of it is total nonsense.

 

There is literally no difference with Engvall to Taylor Moore yet people seem to think Moore is the future and Engvall is a waste. He was always meant to be a bit part player this season that we develop. A loan to L1 would've been ideal but it didn't happen because we only got so much striker cover on deadline day and he didn't  want to rush a decision. Fair enough 

[Fiale]

20 minutes ago, Ashtonwurzel said:

Something not right off the field for Engvall - IMO.

If he was fit, willing and able to play he would have at least made the bench in the majority of our games.

Not buying this "one for the future" in his case, Tyler Moore makes sense but Engvall not so much.

 

He was training with a Swedish team, and they wanted him on loan but we said no after Tammy got injured, but he still cannot make it on the bench - very bizzare

[Ashtonwurzel]

7 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

There is literally no difference with Engvall to Taylor Moore yet people seem to think Moore is the future and Engvall is a waste. He was always meant to be a bit part player this season that we develop. A loan to L1 would've been ideal but it didn't happen because we only got so much striker cover on deadline day and he didn't  want to rush a decision. Fair enough 

Fair comment.

[Septic Peg]

7 minutes ago, Fiale said:

 

He was training with a Swedish team, and they wanted him on loan but we said no after Tammy got injured, but he still cannot make it on the bench - very bizzare

Actually Engvall himself said no. 

Not ITK, but I think the move from Sweden to the UK was a big shock for GE. Away from his family probably for the first time, no one he knew, shaky with the lingo etc. It all adds up.

I think one of the reasons he said no to the loan is because he has just finally started to settle. Why would he want to uproot himself all over again?

I think from now until the end of the season, we will start to see a bit more of Engvall, albeit probably on the bench.

[Fiale]

8 minutes ago, Septic Peg said:

Actually Engvall himself said no. 

Not ITK, but I think the move from Sweden to the UK was a big shock for GE. Away from his family probably for the first time, no one he knew, shaky with the lingo etc. It all adds up.

I think one of the reasons he said no to the loan is because he has just finally started to settle. Why would he want to uproot himself all over again?

I think from now until the end of the season, we will start to see a bit more of Engvall, albeit probably on the bench.

 

He said no to a last days transfer request from a couple of L1 clubs, but he did want to go to Sweden, that's why he went out to train with them, it was all going ahead until Tammy's injury and LJ cancelled it. Engvall wants games because he wants to get called upto the National team again.

[Kid in the Riot]

To answer your question I fear he will turn out to be a 'dud' sadly.

[ChippenhamRed]

1 hour ago, JoeAman08 said:

There is literally no difference with Engvall to Taylor Moore yet people seem to think Moore is the future and Engvall is a waste. He was always meant to be a bit part player this season that we develop. A loan to L1 would've been ideal but it didn't happen because we only got so much striker cover on deadline day and he didn't  want to rush a decision. Fair enough 

I've always been dubious about the theory that he was signed as a "bit part" player for future development. It may be true to an extent, but that wasn't how he was presented to us back in August:-

http://mobile.bcfc.co.uk/news/article/2016-17/city-secure-engvall-transfer-3281091.aspx

Phrases like "highly rated", "adjust quickly", "big transfer" and "really dangerous" suggest expectations were much higher than that.

For what it's worth I was at the Hull game and saw a lot I liked, he had a few lovely touches. Certainly seemed worthy of more game time. Another mystery in a season full of them.

[Murraysrightplum]

Play him!

[samo II]

The situation is a strange one.

As for if he would be any good for us; I fear we may never get the chance to know, certainly if the current head coach remains in place.

Could be great; could be crap - I'd wager he's got something about him to command the money we paid, but maybe a case of taking a move a bit too young.

Do hope he gets a chance to show us what he can do at some point.

[Fiale]

8 minutes ago, samo II said:

The situation is a strange one.

As for if he would be any good for us; I fear we may never get the chance to know, certainly if the current head coach remains in place.

Could be great; could be crap - I'd wager he's got something about him to command the money we paid, but maybe a case of taking a move a bit too young.

Do hope he gets a chance to show us what he can do at some point.

 

I'd imagine that he was not sold on a few U23's and the odd 20 mins for a couple of games all season. If he has any desire (and wants to keep playing for Sweden) he will want out of this club already. Seeing Djuiric and Taylor both signed in January and playing ahead of him since would I imagine not have helped convince him he has any career here.

[samo II]

6 minutes ago, Fiale said:

 

I'd imagine that he was not sold on a few U23's and the odd 20 mins for a couple of games all season. If he has any desire (and wants to keep playing for Sweden) he will want out of this club already. Seeing Djuiric and Taylor both signed in January and playing ahead of him since would I imagine not have helped convince him he has any career here.

Agreed.

I can see a situation where he might end up involved longer term, but that doesn't involve LJ being here.  

In the short term I think both he and the club would be better letting him try and get into the Swedish under 21s by going home on loan (if he still can); might help increase his value when it comes to selling him.

Just worry that he'll end up being a very decent player somewhere else, and we'll look like mugs. 

[Fiale]

:laugh: have you seen this ?

 

 

[Tears in rain]

The irritating thing is we will never know unless he gets some game time in matches. 

[GrahamC]

2 hours ago, Septic Peg said:

 

I think from now until the end of the season, we will start to see a bit more of Engvall, albeit probably on the bench.

Seeing as in the last week we have been without both Abraham and Djuric, leaving us with just Wilbs and Taylor as our available strikers, yet he hasn't even made the bench for any of these games, I'd suggest that is highly unlikely.

In fact if by some miracle LJ remains in post for the start of next season I think it is far more possible he will never play for us again.

[bristolcitysweden]

Wilbrahams goal on corner disallowed for pushing

[REDOXO]

6 hours ago, GrahamC said:

To answer your question we simply don't know, he has had too little game time to form a judgment and also when he has got on the pitch it has been 20 minutes here and there, then nothing for a few weeks.

You are spot on about the defence, we are the highest scorers in the bottom six, so up front is not where the problem lies.

In that run of 4 tough away games we scored 6 goals, that should have earned us a minimum of 5 points, but because we are so weak at the back we got 2.

No we don't. I reckon Engval is as good as Messi but LJ doesn't know how to fit him in to his 321211 formation. 

[Lack of Action Man]

5 hours ago, glastonred said:

I don't get why people don't seem to rate Flint. Many times he's shown fight and passion for the cause, and cleared off the line several times. For me he has earned his ever-presence in defence this season.

Can't question his fight or passion fella, that's been evident this first half.

What you can question though, is him not looking behind his shoulder to see his marker has left him, or aimlessly lumping the ball into touch. 

Completely unrelated but we need more mobility up front. This Burton defence will hold Wilbs most of the game (with help from the ref) - lets test them on the deck with a bit of off-the-ball movement that Taylor brings. 

Bobby Reid has been pants.

[bristolcitysweden]

1. Reports in Swedish media suggests the loan deal will happen late next week with us having a recall clause in the summer http://www.aftonbladet.se/sportbladet/fotboll/a/G7jW4/vandningen-engvall-kan-snart-vara-klar-for-dif 

[bristolcitysweden]

The article suggests a speedy recovery for Abraham

[JoeAman08]

5 hours ago, ChippenhamRed said:

I've always been dubious about the theory that he was signed as a "bit part" player for future development. It may be true to an extent, but that wasn't how he was presented to us back in August:-

http://mobile.bcfc.co.uk/news/article/2016-17/city-secure-engvall-transfer-3281091.aspx

Phrases like "highly rated", "adjust quickly", "big transfer" and "really dangerous" suggest expectations were much higher than that.

For what it's worth I was at the Hull game and saw a lot I liked, he had a few lovely touches. Certainly seemed worthy of more game time. Another mystery in a season full of them.

The quotes didn't help but when has a LJ quote helped? 

I saw a lot I liked with him as well and I agree it's a mystery why he hasn't featured a bit more. I truly think he was for development purposes and more of a squad player and U23 player that was thrust into a position on the bench because Kodjia was not replaced and it was just Wilbs and Tammy. So he couldn't play U23 games and wasn't ready/trusted enough to play get minutes. Harsh but I understand it. 

[Flagon]

7 hours ago, glastonred said:

I don't get why people don't seem to rate Flint. Many times he's shown fight and passion for the cause, and cleared off the line several times. For me he has earned his ever-presence in defence this season.

I don't think Flint is bad but I do think his main strength is heading out when the ball is played high down the middle which hasn't happened a lot this season. He isn't quick when turned. We regularly ship goals from crosses into the box from either side, in particular the left I feel. It should have been closed down before but once it has come over you are looking to your centre halves to mop up. This hasn't happened and he is pretty much the only player not to have been dropped at some point this season.