Tas1709 Posted March 8, 2017 Report Share Posted March 8, 2017 WARNING: Large amounts of speculation below Would being relegated really hurt the owner? Less income from ticket sales/merchandise in the short term yes. But with the reduced wages from the playing side and being the proverbial big fish in a little pond it looks like a sound business decision! Large away crowds due to the new stadium and I can't help but think we would get larger attendances near the top of league 1 than around mid table/bottom in the championship. Just a thought and if true, Lee will definitely be staying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshtonGreat Posted March 8, 2017 Report Share Posted March 8, 2017 I did consider this a possibility Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ploppy Posted March 8, 2017 Report Share Posted March 8, 2017 Why spend so much money on players if we had already decided to go down? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ontariored Posted March 8, 2017 Report Share Posted March 8, 2017 Plus buy the gas. One team in Bristol. Bigger crowd . Makes sense with Bristol sport. This shares the cost with more money coming in. However, it doesn't make sense spending what we have on players but suffice it to say that the young recruits will be ready to push upper league 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sglosbcfc Posted March 8, 2017 Report Share Posted March 8, 2017 1 hour ago, Tas1709 said: WARNING: Large amounts of speculation below Would being relegated really hurt the owner? Less income from ticket sales/merchandise in the short term yes. But with the reduced wages from the playing side and being the proverbial big fish in a little pond it looks like a sound business decision! Large away crowds due to the new stadium and I can't help but think we would get larger attendances near the top of league 1 than around mid table/bottom in the championship. Just a thought and if true, Lee will definitely be staying Absolutely no way would City average nearly 19,000 in League One. Relegation will hit the club and Lansdown in the pocket, anyone who thinks otherwise knows very little about football finance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cityloyal473 Posted March 8, 2017 Report Share Posted March 8, 2017 5 minutes ago, sglosbcfc said: Absolutely no way would City average nearly 19,000 in League One. Relegation will hit the club and Lansdown in the pocket, anyone who thinks otherwise knows very little about football finance. Quite. Financially it would be disastrous - regardless of SLs billions. I think we'd struggle with LJ in league one too so there wouldn't even be a 'promotion push' that may draw some decent crowds. The only reason we are heading for league one is because SL is too stubborn to admit he's backed a donkey and is now going to cut his nose off to spite his face rather than admit his mistake. More fool him. I'll not be around to watch anymore of this fiasco. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterbournered Posted March 8, 2017 Report Share Posted March 8, 2017 Can't see it. Without looking, I'd imagine there's a sizeable difference in money from TV rights and prize money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciderbeans Posted March 8, 2017 Report Share Posted March 8, 2017 I saw it suggested that if we go down we get 30 mill which would help pay off the stadium and then get 40mill for re-promotion. It's been suggested SL is making us go down purely for a money reason. Again speculation so probably rubbish. Make of it what you will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Balls Posted March 8, 2017 Report Share Posted March 8, 2017 11 minutes ago, ciderbeans said: I saw it suggested that if we go down we get 30 mill which would help pay off the stadium and then get 40mill for re-promotion. It's been suggested SL is making us go down purely for a money reason. Again speculation so probably rubbish. Make of it what you will. How on earth would we get 30 million for going down? That's more akin to Premier League parachute payments. And 40 million for getting promoted from League 1? Pie in the sky figure! Championship clubs get about 5 million s year for TV rights etc. League 1 clubs get around 1 million at most. So there's a definite drop in income. As for money from ticket sales they will go down as crowds will fall and/or prices will have to reduce(?). We may recoup some transfer fee money but again the likelihood is that quite a few players will have lost value compared to what we paid for them, so that's bad business too. The only way that getting relegated could possibly have a positive financial effect would be if the losses could somehow be offset against tax payments as has been suggested about Donald Trump. But even then I remain sceptical that this is possible in this country with a company. The only way I can see any financial benefit to being in League 1 is being good enough to make the playoffs for a few seasons but never actually get promoted on the back of a team who cost little to buy and are cheap in wage terms. At least that way the losses might be a bit smaller. But how that fits with a 27,000 seat stadium I have no idea, and it doesn't really suggest any sense of ambition for the club. But them neither does keeping a head coach with some of the worst statistics ever seen at this club.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS4 on Tour... Posted March 8, 2017 Report Share Posted March 8, 2017 2 hours ago, Tas1709 said: ....and being the proverbial big fish in a little pond it looks like a sound business decision! We aren't a big fish, or even a big club... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcusX Posted March 8, 2017 Report Share Posted March 8, 2017 2 hours ago, sglosbcfc said: Absolutely no way would City average nearly 19,000 in League One. Relegation will hit the club and Lansdown in the pocket, anyone who thinks otherwise knows very little about football finance. Really? If we're top of the league at Christmas we'll be seeing crowds in excess of 20k, guarenteed. To coin your phrase, anyone who thinks the fickle fans wont come back out of the woodwork haven't been watching football for very long! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcusX Posted March 8, 2017 Report Share Posted March 8, 2017 49 minutes ago, ciderbeans said: I saw it suggested that if we go down we get 30 mill which would help pay off the stadium and then get 40mill for re-promotion. It's been suggested SL is making us go down purely for a money reason. Again speculation so probably rubbish. Make of it what you will. I saw that on FB and commented and didnt get a response. Ive never heard of Championship relegation parachute payments. Jeez we've been in this position enough times we'd know all about it if it was a thing wouldnt we?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivorguy Posted March 8, 2017 Report Share Posted March 8, 2017 Answer to question: Yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted March 8, 2017 Report Share Posted March 8, 2017 In a word: No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View from the Dolman Posted March 8, 2017 Report Share Posted March 8, 2017 1 hour ago, ciderbeans said: I saw it suggested that if we go down we get 30 mill which would help pay off the stadium and then get 40mill for re-promotion. It's been suggested SL is making us go down purely for a money reason. Again speculation so probably rubbish. Make of it what you will. You were right. It's rubbish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ska Junkie Posted March 8, 2017 Report Share Posted March 8, 2017 32 minutes ago, MarcusX said: Really? If we're top of the league at Christmas we'll be seeing crowds in excess of 20k, guarenteed. To coin your phrase, anyone who thinks the fickle fans wont come back out of the woodwork haven't been watching football for very long! No chance of 20K unless it's against the gas. We won't get anywhere near that figure otherwise. 12-14K on a good day and possibly sub 10K on a bad one. As for the fickle fans comment, I'm not so sure they will. The number of season card holders I have spoken to that aren't planning on renewing is ridiculous. I think it will need some serious wooing to get them back. These aren't Johnny come lately's either, long standing season ticket holders are on the verge of walking away, in surprisingly large numbers. Very, very sad times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted March 8, 2017 Report Share Posted March 8, 2017 SL thought we would be challenging near the top of this league , I'm certain of that . We are set up for this League and , dare I say it , the Premier League . As for gates ,whilst we are City til We die , the flame burns less brightly for those of us who have done the promotion from the third division so many times . Thrashing Walsall no longer brings the same excitement as when we were rising from the ashes of the fourth division with a sense of purpose and unity . As for the Tinpot Trophy , our first ever appearance at Wembley so soon after nearly folding was one of the most moving days of my life . If we get there next season, I'm not even sure that I'd go . Been there , seen it all , got The T shirt . Ssme shit , different season . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted March 8, 2017 Report Share Posted March 8, 2017 There is no way that SL has invested as much as he has - covering losses, stadium rebuild, player investment this season alone - for relegation to league 1 to be a business decision. Lower player salaries would be a consequence of relation, not a reason for making it happen. SL has achieved ,massive and spectacular success in his business career, and strongly suspect that he wants to achieve success with his ownership of Bristol City. I would think it hurts him to feel that he has so far been unable to achieve that success and that he would regard relegation as failure - not something a man like him will be happy with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted March 8, 2017 Report Share Posted March 8, 2017 Don't see how it could be: Relegation will set the club back absolutely. Season tickets will probably drop by 3-4 thousand off the back of this season if we go down. Factor in drop off on POTD also. All those people buy beer, programmes, food, merchandise- this will all take a hit. Gillingham, Oldham and Port Vale are a WAY harder sell for the corporate boxes, the expensive seats than Newcastle, Villa, Leeds etc. From a Business POV I am unsure I see an upside to relegation. Also Championship parachute payments- completely untrue, don't exist. £40m is laughable, TV revenue is about a 10th of that, maybe an 8th of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bard Posted March 8, 2017 Report Share Posted March 8, 2017 I always favour chaos theory over conspiracy theory. And this is one of the least likely I've heard. Simple fact is that the season has been one big clusterf***. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin1988 Posted March 8, 2017 Report Share Posted March 8, 2017 I think the OP has forgotten the small matter of our owner having to actively want us to fail in order for the idea to be true. I mean on current form you can understand why you might think that's his attitude, but I do think he'd like us to, you know, win a game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldstandrobin Posted March 8, 2017 Report Share Posted March 8, 2017 15 minutes ago, 8menhadadream said: No chance of 20K unless it's against the gas. We won't get anywhere near that figure otherwise. 12-14K on a good day and possibly sub 10K on a bad one. As for the fickle fans comment, I'm not so sure they will. The number of season card holders I have spoken to that aren't planning on renewing is ridiculous. I think it will need some serious wooing to get them back. These aren't Johnny come lately's either, long standing season ticket holders are on the verge of walking away, in surprisingly large numbers. Very, very sad times. I am one as just an example, in my 59 years watching this club, we have never been in a better position to go to the top table than we are now, stadium ( blah blah) but an owner whose wealth is astronomical but whose football knowledge and appointing managers is shall we say wanting...............my brother is a ST holder at St Mary's and if we are relegated, I will be joining him. Ashton Gate is close to my heart, generations of family before me went down, took my missus on our first date there, Whiteheads goal, sponsoring the club with my business in Division One, promotion Vespa 2 years ago but sadly I cant take much more. I will sadly vote with my feet and of course will be checking on the score v Rochdale whilst watching Saints v Everton/Man City..............sad sad sad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyderInACan Posted March 8, 2017 Report Share Posted March 8, 2017 1 hour ago, BS4 on Tour... said: We aren't a big fish, or even a big club... We're not even a cardboard box . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I'm Sparti-Bob Posted March 8, 2017 Report Share Posted March 8, 2017 No Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natchfever Posted March 8, 2017 Report Share Posted March 8, 2017 3 hours ago, sglosbcfc said: Absolutely no way would City average nearly 19,000 in League One. Relegation will hit the club and Lansdown in the pocket, anyone who thinks otherwise knows very little about football finance. Well, if being in league One is a business decision, then this is where I think SL's brilliance as a football man may unravel. He has said (possibly that breakfast do) that if we go down, then fans will flock if we are challenging near the top of league One or words to that effect. The new stadium buzz will have eroded and lots of pissed off people means that I am certain we will not nearly match this season's average attendance, if for no other reason than many less season cards and low low attendances early on - that is hit 1, although he can no doubt cover that with loose change. The possible strategy of having a "Danny Wilson" side, challenging near the top of the league for years but not quite making it, full of local lads and league 1 standard players might attract SL because the gates would be pretty good and the wages relatively low, therefore self sustaining or at least more so than presently Being in league One also allows him to divert money towards what I suspect will now be his favoured "project" of getting Bristol rugby at the top table. Here comes the banana skin though,... He has been fed a crock of shite about players for the future. They have been bought at the market rate as a bare minimum and possibly way OTT in the case of Engvall. None of those "for the future" players will be keen on sticking around league One,or I suspect play for the current coach certainly not Moore, Maggers and Engvall, plus i'd suggest ODowda who is keen to cement a place in the Irish senior squad.I cannot see any evidence that the club would recoup anything like their outlay for these players as they have all been sidelined or shipped out for large parts of the season, so hardly in the shop window. None of them will be on league One wages so will be allowed to go for a relative song, which will hit the club for millions. Clearly other high earners will go, and in the case of Tomlin, that will be another big hit financially. No idea about Duric and Hegeler, but I can't imagine they are earning peanuts either and won't ready to play at the third level of English football so another cost to offload. Another whammy is that promising players deemed potential money earners like Joe Bryan and to a lesser extent Bobby Reid are now shot of confidence, and I can't imagine anyone in the top two divisions fancying a punt now Joe in particular has been ruined by LJ. Less revenue from tv, reduced sponsorship, less away fans, smaller home attendances, loss on transfer dealings. Balance that against being a big fish in league One with LJ "learning his trade"..hmmm if that really is attractive to SL then we are more f ucked than I thought we were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcusX Posted March 8, 2017 Report Share Posted March 8, 2017 1 hour ago, 8menhadadream said: No chance of 20K unless it's against the gas. We won't get anywhere near that figure otherwise. 12-14K on a good day and possibly sub 10K on a bad one. As for the fickle fans comment, I'm not so sure they will. The number of season card holders I have spoken to that aren't planning on renewing is ridiculous. I think it will need some serious wooing to get them back. These aren't Johnny come lately's either, long standing season ticket holders are on the verge of walking away, in surprisingly large numbers. Very, very sad times. No I agree (about needing serious wooing), and I dont mean any disrespect to the real die-hards that have had enough because its completely understandable. However, IF we were to get off to a flyer and several points clear at the top by Xmas people would return and new faces would appear. We will probably sell out against the Gas in that scenario Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Red Hat Posted March 8, 2017 Report Share Posted March 8, 2017 1 hour ago, MarcusX said: Really? If we're top of the league at Christmas we'll be seeing crowds in excess of 20k, guarenteed. I'll have some of what you're on. This relegation will be a relegation too far for many supporters..............because it's unnecessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ska Junkie Posted March 8, 2017 Report Share Posted March 8, 2017 35 minutes ago, oldstandrobin said: I am one as just an example, in my 59 years watching this club, we have never been in a better position to go to the top table than we are now, stadium ( blah blah) but an owner whose wealth is astronomical but whose football knowledge and appointing managers is shall we say wanting...............my brother is a ST holder at St Mary's and if we are relegated, I will be joining him. Ashton Gate is close to my heart, generations of family before me went down, took my missus on our first date there, Whiteheads goal, sponsoring the club with my business in Division One, promotion Vespa 2 years ago but sadly I cant take much more. I will sadly vote with my feet and of course will be checking on the score v Rochdale whilst watching Saints v Everton/Man City..............sad sad sad Great post oldstand and a typically sad indictment of the garbage our club is turning in to. I'm voting with my feet as well and will spend my Saturdays trying to lower my golf handicap, watching my local teams (Cadbury Heath or Longwell Green) and teaching my lad to drive (god help me). The other issue people are overlooking is getting the likes of your good self back. If you're watching Premiership football, why would you give it up once you've made the break? FWIW, I don't blame you one iota! As you say, sad times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcusX Posted March 8, 2017 Report Share Posted March 8, 2017 1 minute ago, Roger Red Hat said: I'll have some of what you're on. This relegation will be a relegation too far for many supporters..............because it's unnecessary. i've heard that after every relegation though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Red Hat Posted March 8, 2017 Report Share Posted March 8, 2017 1 minute ago, MarcusX said: i've heard that after every relegation though. I haven't. People have completely lost faith in SL over this seasons debacle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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