Rosenior, very harsh on our club

[Stortz]

2 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

It's a no win situation I guess. 

If minorities apply and don't The the job, then it opens up the Leroy scenario of "it's because I'm black"

Who's barriers are they anyway, if a company welcome applications from all walks of society, yet individuals feel that they shouldn't apply for such a job..? 

 

That's the rub isn't it- it's exactly the question being addressed by encouraging people from those groups to apply.

[alexukhc]

Didn't a story come out that his son also got bullied here too?

[Up The City!]

8 hours ago, RaspberryRed said:

That's TOTALLY irelevant as the disscussion/debate is around black Managers not players. Let's not skew this debate further

So the board is only racist towards managers? Not quite sure that's how racism is.

[Fiale]

Not a huge fan of Leroy, but in this case he is probably right.

 

 

 

 "It was a frustrating time.

"The three managers was something that wasn't going to work long-term but I was actually hopeful of getting the job permanently."

He added: "When Tony got it I was gutted. Tony had never got a coaching badge, let alone played the game. He was a fixer, a handyman around the club and so to be overlooked was a blow.

The extract from Rosenior's book

"I had played for the club, was popular among the supporters, had my badges, knew the local press well, knew the academy like the back of my hand, but instead I was being asked to step back.

"I was fuming. It was an eye-opener. You can't help but analyse things after that sort of rejection and I couldn't help but wonder, if I had been a white former player who knew so much about the club, would I have got the job?"

Rosenior added: "I'm afraid to say the answer seemed to me, to be a resounding yes. As it turned out, Tony was involved in a business scandal and didn't last long in the job, just a matter of weeks in fact.

"Once again I didn't get the job, but this time it was easier to take as I missed out to Danny Wilson, a proper football man, who was clearly qualified for the position."

[BobBobSuperBob]

The only fact in all this 

 

 'Tony had never got a coaching badge, let alone played the game. He was a fixer, a handyman around the club and so to be overlooked was a blow.'

 

Fawthrop had found his way into football by running a successful boys side in the Leeds area and was taken into Leeds as a scout on their schoolboy recruitment side

Formed friendships and ended up as Chief Scout at City (Thanks to Jimmy Lumsden)

Never played the game , not qualified as a coach , save boys football , had never managed , and spent a large proportion of his time whilst 'Chief Scout' at City running his business interests 

A truly bizarre appointment , the most bizarre in my years of following City

Very chummy towards the players which may have helped him

A good 'talker' and big friends with John Laycock seemed to do the trick 

 

 

[Super]

1 minute ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

The only fact in all this 

 Tony had never got a coaching badge, let alone played the game. He was a fixer, a handyman around the club and so to be overlooked was a blow.

Fawthrop had found his way into football by running a successful boys side in the Leeds area and was taken into Leeds as a scout on their schoolboy recruitment side

Formed friendships and ended up as Chief Scout at City (Thanks to Jimmy Lumsden)

Never played the game , not qualified as a coach , save boys football , had never managed , and spent a large proportion of his time whilst 'Chief Scout' at City running his business interests 

A truly bizarre appointment , the most bizarre in my years of following City

Very chummy towards the players which may have helped him

A good 'talker' and big friends with John Laycock seemed to do the trick 

 

 

In fairness this club has a habit of appointing the wrong man!

[Atticus]

 

 

28 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

The only fact in all this 

 

 'Tony had never got a coaching badge, let alone played the game. He was a fixer, a handyman around the club and so to be overlooked was a blow.'

 

Fawthrop had found his way into football by running a successful boys side in the Leeds area and was taken into Leeds as a scout on their schoolboy recruitment side

Formed friendships and ended up as Chief Scout at City (Thanks to Jimmy Lumsden)

Never played the game , not qualified as a coach , save boys football , had never managed , and spent a large proportion of his time whilst 'Chief Scout' at City running his business interests 

A truly bizarre appointment , the most bizarre in my years of following City

Very chummy towards the players which may have helped him

A good 'talker' and big friends with John Laycock seemed to do the trick 

 

 

I would suspect it was the situation we are in now.

Employing a mate.

[grifty]

13 hours ago, Eddie Hitler said:

Just to defend Leroy here this is a one paragraph mention in his autobiography.  The Torquay newspaper has taken this paragraph and turned it into a big story.

He's not going around shouting about this or giving interviews to milk it.

Is he correct? Well he probably thinks so, so can say it, I was convinced that I was discriminated against in a job because I was an internal candidate and the company had a record of not appointing internal candidates.  I still think so but maybe I just wasn't good enough. It's the sort of thing we'll never know.

Do I think he was? Probably not. The club has made several baffling managerial appointments over the years, all down IMHO to internal politics. Whoever was in the vote Rosenoir camp that time got outvoted.

I think it's because your last name is Hitler.

[RaspberryRed]

1 hour ago, Up The City! said:

So the board is only racist towards managers? Not quite sure that's how racism is.

Read it again that's wasn't the point

[CotswoldRed]

4 hours ago, City Ben said:

Perhaps if he had evidence he would have sued at the time. Who's to say? However he's not saying he has proof. He is just giving his opinion.

If we all had to be held to the same level of evidence we would be in court just to express an opinion, life would be very dull and I think this forum would close down pretty quickly! 

Inclined to agree. Except, if you suggest publicly you didn't get a job because of your skin colour, you are essentially claiming those involved to be racist. 

Free speech and potentially libelous comments aren't the same thing. 

[Tully Bascomb]

Leroy was a ok player for us, became part of a thee person stop gap, didn't work out for any of them. Move on. Talks rubbish in the paper on occasions, safe standing :laugh:. So to sum up, it doesn't matter if you're black or white but it does matter if you're a **** who talks crap.

[Guest]

He's described a situation he was in and indicated that it might be because he was not white. He has raised a legitimate concern so I have no idea why some people are getting uptight about it (some people doth protest too much). He then goes on to describe losing out to Danny Wilson and is most gracious about it.

To me, I suspect he's describing the 'old boys network' and not racism. Something I suspect most people have come up against at one time or another.

[Strictly Obi]

I think there seems to be an overall problem in the football league, regards lack of black football managers. I have absolutely no idea how many apply for jobs. Perhaps more needs to be done to encourage ethnic minorities to put they're names forward? But if you look at FA's ruling body, all the men in grey suits are white middle class duffers with one foot in the grave. And I can't see any new inspirations or modern forward thinking coming from that rusty old think-tank! 

[bs3]

19 hours ago, 8menhadadream said:

i was sent this today and it doesn't portray our club well. Personally, I think it says more about Rosenior but political correctness is on his side. Nothing to do with the fact he has no experience, just his skin tone?

http://www.devonlive.com/former-torquay-manager-leroy-rosenior-claims-beingaw-black-cost-him-bristol-city-job/story-30192065-detail/story.html

Ok , just read the article I haven't read the 3 page thread yet ,  BUT Rosenior has got a point.

Tony Fawthrope was another joke of an appointment, he was more qualified to be manager of Harry Ramsden at Cribbs Causeway than Bristol City.

Tony Pulis is a vile gashead who hates Bristol City and detest its supporters.

So yes I think Rosenior who played in the top flight for most of career and is a very articulate pundit did deserve the City job and if I was him feel the same.

[Up The City!]

1 hour ago, RaspberryRed said:

Read it again that's wasn't the point

If someone is a racist it doesn't matter if a person is a player or a manager.

My point is relevant because it dismisses LR claims. If the board at the time were racist, we would not have had any black players also.

[Up The City!]

4 minutes ago, bs3 said:

Ok , just read the article I haven't read the 3 page thread yet ,  BUT Rosenior has got a point.

Tony Fawthrope was another joke of an appointment, he was more qualified to be manager of Harry Ramsden at Cribbs Causeway than Bristol City.

Tony Pulis is a vile gashead who hates Bristol City and detest its supporters.

So yes I think Rosenior who played in the top flight for most of career and is a very articulate pundit did deserve the City job and if I was him feel the same.

I remember at the time being quite pleased with TF being appointed ad manager.

[Ska Junkie]

My issue with this is not whether Leroy was a good coach or not, it's the fact that our club has been branded as racist for not giving him the job. If I were City, I would sue the arse off him unless he had some serious proof!

[Ska Junkie]

25 minutes ago, bs3 said:

Ok , just read the article I haven't read the 3 page thread yet ,  BUT Rosenior has got a point.

Tony Fawthrope was another joke of an appointment, he was more qualified to be manager of Harry Ramsden at Cribbs Causeway than Bristol City.

Tony Pulis is a vile gashead who hates Bristol City and detest its supporters.

So yes I think Rosenior who played in the top flight for most of career and is a very articulate pundit did deserve the City job and if I was him feel the same.

While I agree with the sentiment bs3, it doesn't prove that the only reason he didn't get it was that he was black. It sullies the reputation of the club.

[Wanderingred]

55 minutes ago, bcfcfinker said:

He's described a situation he was in and indicated that it might be because he was not white. He has raised a legitimate concern so I have no idea why some people are getting uptight about it (some people doth protest too much). He then goes on to describe losing out to Danny Wilson and is most gracious about it.

To me, I suspect he's describing the 'old boys network' and not racism. Something I suspect most people have come up against at one time or another.

Because he is accusing the club we all love of institutionalised racism and paints us in a bad light. If our club allows itself to be branded as racist then what could it do for our future prospects in looking for black players, coaches or other members of staff? Luckily we are only Bristol City and the media won't care but imagine it was a more high profile name making the same accusation towards a bigger club? The media would be all over it and the club would rightfully try to defend its reputation. Its not a throwaway comment or an opinion, its a pretty serious allegation in this day and age. I'm not necessarily saying he's a liar but where is the evidence and why wasn't it dealt with at the time if he genuinely thought it had happened?

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

14 minutes ago, Wanderingred said:

Because he is accusing the club we all love of institutionalised racism and paints us in a bad light. If our club allows itself to be branded as racist then what could it do for our future prospects in looking for black players, coaches or other members of staff? Luckily we are only Bristol City and the media won't care but imagine it was a more high profile name making the same accusation towards a bigger club? The media would be all over it and the club would rightfully try to defend its reputation. Its not a throwaway comment or an opinion, its a pretty serious allegation in this day and age. I'm not necessarily saying he's a liar but where is the evidence and why wasn't it dealt with at the time if he genuinely thought it had happened?

There is an awful lot of evidence that football has been institutionally racist for decades.  Why should Bristol City be any different?

[Wanderingred]

41 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

There is an awful lot of evidence that football has been institutionally racist for decades.  Why should Bristol City be any different?

Sorry but I fail to see any relevance there to my point. On that logic, could somebody accuse you of racism on the grounds that football fans have been racist in the past and why should you be any different?

Society and the human race in general has been racist for decades, that doesnt mean you should go around making allegations at specific people or institutions unless you've got something to back it up with.

[Alan Dicks]

This could have been worse, we could have turned down Diane Abbot for the managers job

[shelts]

He didn't get the job and went on to do wonders in management. Same as Ince, shite managers who aren't white. Still shite managers. The race card. Boring 

[NickJ]

6 hours ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

A good 'talker' and big friends with John Laycock seemed to do the trick 

Can't help thinking of those words with a different name

[You Do The Dziekanowski]

Another main point whilst appointing someone is the attitude they portray

 

During his spell in charge as part of the trio he could've been walking around the training ground thinking he's billy big balls because he's got coaching badges, he might not of got on with the players as well as the other two did, he might not of shown the desire to learn the game or better himself as a manager (going off his career after this it does seem to be the case) 

 

Yes, He does have an argument as he was the most qualified but there may well be a reason other than race and qualifications for as to why he didn't get the job.

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Wanderingred said:

Because he is accusing the club we all love of institutionalised racism and paints us in a bad light. If our club allows itself to be branded as racist then what could it do for our future prospects in looking for black players, coaches or other members of staff? Luckily we are only Bristol City and the media won't care but imagine it was a more high profile name making the same accusation towards a bigger club? The media would be all over it and the club would rightfully try to defend its reputation. Its not a throwaway comment or an opinion, its a pretty serious allegation in this day and age. I'm not necessarily saying he's a liar but where is the evidence and why wasn't it dealt with at the time if he genuinely thought it had happened?

The 'evidence': on comparison between TF and LR, just who had the experience, the qualifications etc., as described by LR? Then why did Fawthorp get the job over LR?

I've already said I think it's the 'old boy network' and didn't resort to saying LR has played the race card, with all the associated digs.

Now review this forum thread and just what has been said? In the effort to defend the 'honour' of the club, some fans are using the language of 'institutional racism'. It's fortunate that these same fans aren't in charge of defending Bristol City against any current racism charge because if they were, they've thrown away the shovels and replaced them with JCBs.

If you want to defend the club, maybe you shouldn't be shooting the messengers who are pointing out the unpleasant truths that might have existed (this is historical not present day). What matters is the club can defend itself against current day accusations of racism and maybe look to its fan base to set an example. My view, some of the comments on this thread don't help and maybe you can cast your critical eye over some comments and comment appropriately. I very much doubt that you will though.

[Wanderingred]

3 hours ago, bcfcfinker said:

The 'evidence': on comparison between TF and LR, just who had the experience, the qualifications etc., as described by LR? Then why did Fawthorp get the job over LR?

I've already said I think it's the 'old boy network' and didn't resort to saying LR has played the race card, with all the associated digs.

Now review this forum thread and just what has been said? In the effort to defend the 'honour' of the club, some fans are using the language of 'institutional racism'. It's fortunate that these same fans aren't in charge of defending Bristol City against any current racism charge because if they were, they've thrown away the shovels and replaced them with JCBs.

If you want to defend the club, maybe you shouldn't be shooting the messengers who are pointing out the unpleasant truths that might have existed (this is historical not present day). What matters is the club can defend itself against current day accusations of racism and maybe look to its fan base to set an example. My view, some of the comments on this thread don't help and maybe you can cast your critical eye over some comments and comment appropriately. I very much doubt that you will though.

Rather condescending arent you?

[formerly known as ivan]

17 hours ago, City Ben said:

Some of the comments on here re quotas/ positive discrimination etc come across as, at best, simplistic.

"Can you imagine if they favoured only white candidates! There would be uproar from people calling "racist"! So why isn't it the same the other way around?!" 

Well, the point that is missed and has been eloquently explained by LondonBristolian and others is that many believe there to be an inherent bias in our society against minority groups. Not against white people. Whites are the majority. As a society, most agree that this needs to be redressed and positive discrimination can be one way to do this. 

I don't think you'll find anyone sensible who disagrees with the idea of "the best person for the best job, regardless of anything else". However the point is more subtle than that - what if the best person for the job isn't getting shortlisted because of x reason? Or isn't even applying because they don't think they're in with a chance? I think that's perhaps closer to the real issue, and is potentially what we should be focussing on here. 

Returning back to the original topic...

• Rosenior was there.
• He has a view on the reasons for the board's decision.
• He has let us know that view.

Disagree with his view as much as you want, but I don't know how anyone can get upset with him for expressing it. 

Dropping the race card into a book that otherwise would have got no publicity or attention...

Was it reported to the FA at the time? If so was it investigated?

Seems to me as though they needed a selling point and this was the easiest route to go down.

Edit: @City Ben apologies, not sure how I ended up quoting you above! My response was not aimed at your post, cheers

[Monkeh]

4 hours ago, bcfcfinker said:

The 'evidence': on comparison between TF and LR, just who had the experience, the qualifications etc., as described by LR? Then why did Fawthorp get the job over LR?

I've already said I think it's the 'old boy network' and didn't resort to saying LR has played the race card, with all the associated digs.

Now review this forum thread and just what has been said? In the effort to defend the 'honour' of the club, some fans are using the language of 'institutional racism'. It's fortunate that these same fans aren't in charge of defending Bristol City against any current racism charge because if they were, they've thrown away the shovels and replaced them with JCBs.

If you want to defend the club, maybe you shouldn't be shooting the messengers who are pointing out the unpleasant truths that might have existed (this is historical not present day). What matters is the club can defend itself against current day accusations of racism and maybe look to its fan base to set an example. My view, some of the comments on this thread don't help and maybe you can cast your critical eye over some comments and comment appropriately. I very much doubt that you will though.

what has the club done wrong anyway? they gave the job to one man over another, that man had dodgy dealings so they gave the job to a recently sacked ex prem manager,

 

I was called gay when i was in primary school 30 years ago, therefore that school has a problem with homophobia and bullying

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

10 hours ago, Wanderingred said:

Sorry but I fail to see any relevance there to my point. On that logic, could somebody accuse you of racism on the grounds that football fans have been racist in the past and why should you be any different?

Society and the human race in general has been racist for decades, that doesnt mean you should go around making allegations at specific people or institutions unless you've got something to back it up with.

How do you know he doesn't have anything to back it up?  I think his point about the relative merits of himself, Dave Burnside and Tony Fawthrop speaks for itself.  Fawthrop was the most preposterous appointment the club has ever made; Rosenior was clearly the better qualified candidate.  Given that he presumably does not have a letter from the club saying "We're not give you the job because we're racist", I think he is entitled to suggest, based on his personal experience, that the decision was not entirely football-related.