Guardian article today on SL and Johnson

[JHAGa]

4 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Oh, now that is sneaky! Breaking up the season into 3 blocks, why exactly? Purely because it suits your argument. A clever attempt mate, but that does not tell the story of that 5 months of extraordinarily poor form. The majority of the season.

Let me tell you that from witnessing every game we played in October - things started to go t1ts up from the Cardiff game onward. We turned in a shocking display there and similarly bad ones at QPR and v Blackburn at home, a game we were VERY fortunate to win.

From 14 October v Cardiff until 7 March v Norwich our record was as follows:

Played 25, won 3, drawn 6, lost 16, 0.6ppg (14 Oct - 7 Mar)

So, yes. REALLY we did have five months of abysmal, bottom-of the league form. Not the 3 you try and claim by manipulating the stats.

I'd say the truly bad times were November-Jan, a three month period. If you look at results from 31st Jan onwards after LJ had finally been able to bring in reinforcements, particularly in attack, where up until that point he'd been dependent on two players at the extreme end of the age scale, results were pretty understandable even up until March. October we lost two games (W2 D1 L2), Cardiff away where Bamba had the game of his life and a narrow 1-0 away defeat to QPR. Again, depends on how you want to twist things.

[SecretSam]

2 hours ago, Septic Peg said:

Makes the Daily Mail look like chip shop paper.

I wouldn't want my chips wrapped in that filthy rag.  I wouldn't use the Daily Heil to wipe my a$$, not even if I had dysentery.  

[GodEmperor Palpatine]

1 hour ago, Bar BS3 said:

So you are just going to ignore the other pretty positive periods, which clearly display that he does have some credentials as a Championship level manager and isn't purely in the job because he's Lansdown's mate..? 

Of course he will, he's boycotted the club.

How can he not ignore the positives when he's on his soapbox

[RedRaw]

1 hour ago, ExiledAjax said:

C'mon Kid. Really?

Break the season into three blocks. Games 1-15, 16-30 and 31-46.

1) 7W 3D 5L, 46% win rate, 1.6ppg (6 Aug - 29 Oct)

2) 2W, 2D, 11L 13% win rate, 0.53ppg (5 Nov - 11 Feb)

3) 6W, 4D, 5L, 40% win rate, 1.5ppg (14 Feb - 7 May)

The bad period was number 2. 5 Nov - 11 Feb. 3 months.

I'm not excusing it.  But I can't let you lump it all together like that and call it a 5 month stinker.

However you try to hand pick periods of the season, from October to February, we had 24 league games with 72 points to play for.........we picked up 16 points with 4 wins, 4 draws and 16 losses........... 8% win rate, 0.666ppg.............I'd call that a 5 month sinker

[JamesBCFC]

2 hours ago, Septic Peg said:

Anyone else reckon that board meeting where SL said to LJ "we've thought about giving you the boot" was the beginning of the end for Pembo?

LJ possibly saying "not my fault Gov, it's Pembo. Can't organise a piss up in a brewery. It's him you need to get rid of. Oh and can I have Macca as my new no. 2?"

Ah, so you are one of Theresa's minions? Is Larry the Cat always scrapping with t'other cat from across the road?

This is why I personally read The Guardian. £2 but worth it for decent, well written and factual articles.

Makes the Daily Mail look like chip shop paper.

A village newsletter makes the Daily Mail look like chip shop paper.

[REDOXO]

4 hours ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Good article

Couple of  bits I found interesting

By his own admission he is “obsessed” with management, to the point that his desire to succeed means he has “probably over-coached a little bit at times”. Johnson also recognises the need to do a better job of keeping a lid on expectations during the good times. “That’s probably a lesson for me – I went with it, rather than saying: ‘Hold on a minute, calm down a little bit,’” he says, recalling the excitement that accompanied City’s excellent early results.

For Johnson the pressure he has worked under in his first full season in charge at City has been unforgiving. “I don’t think anybody will ever realise what it’s like in that hot seat until you’re in it, because it is relentless,” he says. “It [the criticism] comes from all angles. You’ve got the massive boom in social media, you have your kids at school, you have your wife walking down the road, you have the board questioning things – rightly so. You have players’ agents kicking off. It’s all happening and you have to be the calmest man in the room, really.

 

 

Yes a very clear message being sent. 

As a bloke said on radio Brizz once, get your head out of Einstien LJ. It seemed clear there was over coaching and over tinkering. It was there in front of you. 

Players agents kicking off! Well that says a lot. If I was guessing....perhaps not!

[054123]

25 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Oh, now that is sneaky! Breaking up the season into 3 blocks, why exactly? Purely because it suits your argument. A clever attempt mate, but that does not tell the story of that 5 months of extraordinarily poor form. The majority of the season.

Let me tell you that from witnessing every game we played in October - things started to go t1ts up from the Cardiff game onward. We turned in a shocking display there and similarly bad ones at QPR and v Blackburn at home, a game we were VERY fortunate to win.

From 14 October v Cardiff until 7 March v Norwich our record was as follows:

Played 25, won 3, drawn 6, lost 16, 0.6ppg (14 Oct - 7 Mar)

So, yes. REALLY we did have five months of abysmal, bottom-of the league form. Not the 3 you try and claim by manipulating the stats.

The best post in a very long time.

I don't know how you argue with this.

This season was a failure. Johnson and Lansdown oversaw it and need to ensure it does not happen again 

[Red-Robbo]

The "result" of the season was 17th, below the mid-table finish I personally hoped for: disappointing but not disastrous. more disappointing in that LJ had the biggest budget a City manager has had to play with for some time.

Now time for us to move on and pray we can replace Tammy. 

Lee has convinced the owner. Now he has to convince most of the fans, and I think the mood, at best, is sceptical.

Still, I'm looking forward to the new season. :-)

 

[GodEmperor Palpatine]

32 minutes ago, 054123 said:

The best post in a very long time.

I don't know how you argue with this.

This season was a failure. Johnson and Lansdown oversaw it and need to ensure it does not happen again 

And in the last 19 games, our record was 7W 6D 6L this spans back to January 31st SO stats are easy to manipulate...

[Kid in the Riot]

38 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

You being selective with the dates is equally as manipulative as the person you claim is being manipulative with the parts they choose.

The debate was whether our "bad run" lasted 3 months or 5 months, it DEMONSTRABLY lasted for near enough 5 months. Over half of the season.

13 minutes ago, 054123 said:

The best post in a very long time.

I don't know how you argue with this.

Still some trying

[Mr Popodopolous]

58 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Oh, now that is sneaky! Breaking up the season into 3 blocks, why exactly? Purely because it suits your argument. A clever attempt mate, but that does not tell the story of that 5 months of extraordinarily poor form. The majority of the season.

Let me tell you that from witnessing every game we played in October - things started to go t1ts up from the Cardiff game onward. We turned in a shocking display there and similarly bad ones at QPR and v Blackburn at home, a game we were VERY fortunate to win.

From 14 October v Cardiff until 7 March v Norwich our record was as follows:

Played 25, won 3, drawn 6, lost 16, 0.6ppg (14 Oct - 7 Mar)

So, yes. REALLY we did have five months of abysmal, bottom-of the league form. Not the 3 you try and claim by manipulating the stats.

I think it lasted 3 months. Which was the rock bottom of 3 points from 12 games.

From Cardiff away to Barnsley away, yes 2 losses which were poor, but a win over Blackburn and a not bad point at Barnsley. The Blackburn game was dreadful but we found a way to win (luckily so)

From end of Jan- I am not saying it was great but spirited draw v Sheff Wed, beat Rotherham- again found a way to win, similar to Blackburn. Draws at Derby and Newcastle and yes we could have got a point at Leeds also. The loss to Fulham not least the Matthews blunder was truly woeful- but let's not overlook their away record in recent times, in hindsight us seeing that as a game to target was mental! The loss at Villa was poor and the collapse at Derby was crap- will take a draw at Newcastle in almost all circs however.

The draw v Burton- well on another day we could have won by 2 or 3. Tomlin missed pen, hit bar, Wilbs goal disallowed- I know they had an awful miss too. v Norwich, we played not bad 2nd half, let's not forget O'Dowda hitting the bar.

I think in some respects 3 months is fair- 3 months was the absolute worst of it.

• To put it another way- First 15 from Wigan at home to Barnsley away, top 6, top 8 form (if not always performances)!
• Nov 5th which was Brighton on Bonfire Night- Forest away-The collapse, the nadir, the disaster.
• Sheff Wed at end of January-Norwich at home- The staunching of the bleeding, the stopping the downward spiral. A relative stability arguably, albeit still a poor one.
• The final section- Big improvement, similar results to start of season in terms of PPG.

[Gazred]

Interesting and positive article.

SL has it right about the haters being quiet when it's going well. 

I'm sure at one point people were trying to organise a protest at a game to get the board and manager out? Why not do it at the Brum match then? Plenty of people there, SL, MA etc all in attendance, lot of media coverage. You couldn't move for LJ out posts on here during the run of defeats.

Fickle or what.

[054123]

19 minutes ago, Emperor Palpatine said:

And in the last 19 games, our record was 7W 6D 6L this spans back to January 31st SO stats our easy to manipulate...

It was a bullshit relegation dog fight as per the one before.

I cannot see how this can be disputed.

[054123]

1 minute ago, Gazred said:

Interesting and positive article.

SL has it right about the haters being quiet when it's going well. 

I'm sure at one point people were trying to organise a protest at a game to get the board and manager out? Why not do it at the Brum match then? Plenty of people there, SL, MA etc all in attendance, lot of media coverage. You couldn't move for LJ out posts on here during the run of defeats.

Fickle or what.

Deary deary me.

For half the season the club turned out some of the worst performances yoy are likely to see. We barely stayed up by a few points. 

Haters? Don't fall for his victim bullshit. Nobody tried to sabotage the club but some, who love the club like everyone else, voiced concern and anger.

Fair play to those who did.

Shiny medals for those who didn't. 

You all obviously knew we'd stay up by the skin of our teeth.

Keep the noise down whilst the party rages on.

 

[JHAGa]

16 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

The debate was whether our "bad run" lasted 3 months or 5 months, it DEMONSTRABLY lasted for near enough 5 months. Over half of the season.

Still some trying

You're literally ignoring the points people are making to show it didn't last five months though. You can't include October as part of the bad run as it was a mixed month, we certainly weren't in a bad run at that stage, and February signs were there that we were beginning to get out of it. When I think of the bad run, I think of the eight consecutive losses. You falsely misrepresenting the bad run as five months just demonstrates how people like yourself are prepared to make everything as negative as possible. You also don't go on and on about the good form either side of that run, you just have a convenient selective memory and constantly refer to the bad times of the season whilst completely ignoring the rest.

[Mr Popodopolous]

3 minutes ago, Gazred said:

Interesting and positive article.

SL has it right about the haters being quiet when it's going well. 

I'm sure at one point people were trying to organise a protest at a game to get the board and manager out? Why not do it at the Brum match then? Plenty of people there, SL, MA etc all in attendance, lot of media coverage. You couldn't move for LJ out posts on here during the run of defeats.

Fickle or what.

Same with all clubs.

Haters is a bit strong though- they were fans who were concerned for the club and deeply worried that the progress would be squandered by a shock relegation- which was unimaginable after a third of the season.

I would never knock anyones right to protest in all honesty. I was an LJ out post Fulham but credit where it's due he certainly helped steer us to safety- turned the tide and whose to say a new manager would have done it?

[GodEmperor Palpatine]

Just now, 054123 said:

It was a bullshit relegation dog fight as per the one before.

I cannot see how this can be disputed.

No different to most seasons...

Because you and others are disputing it was a disaster, I wouldn't say so. Underachieved? Maybe but considering this happens on a regular basis in the Championship with us... we either are relegated without a whimper or we flirt with the relegation zone but we recover and finish lower mid-table like this season.

GJ was the difference in recent memory reaching the playoffs and finished 10th the following season

[GodEmperor Palpatine]

2 minutes ago, 054123 said:

Deary deary me.

For half the season the club turned out some of the worst performances yoy are likely to see. We barely stayed up by a few points. 

Haters? Don't fall for his victim bullshit. Nobody tried to sabotage the club but some, who love the club like everyone else, voiced concern and anger.

Fair play to those who did.

Shiny medals for those who didn't. 

You all obviously knew we'd stay up by the skin of our teeth.

Keep the noise down whilst the party rages on.

 

Then you have a very short memory, almost laughable if you look back to last season, under SOD, under Del, under Millen and the list goes on...

[ChippenhamRed]

2 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Of course I seriously, honestly believe that. What is your explanation of why LJ survived a club record 8 straight defeats, 4 wins in 26 games or whatever it was?

Here's hoping he can eradicate "the bad period" next season, as the one this season lasted from 14 October until 11 March. Five months.

I gave you some alternative reasons why it's not solely down to a "friendship" further up the thread but you chose to ignore it.  Lansdown still believed - rightly or wrongly - that Johnson was capable of turning it around, and wanted to stick with a long term strategy with a manager who fitted into it rather than continue the hire-and-fire cycle that has achieved precisely nothing at this club for many years now.  That was about much more than a personal friendship.  It was a gamble that the subsequent recovery proved was the right one, for this season at least, and could still prove to be the right one in the long term too.

The bad period lasted 5 months but Johnson has now been in charge for 15 months.  And despite that bad period, his overall record in charge remains respectable and compares favourably with any manager in our recent history.  That suggest outside of those five months he must have been doing something right.  A shame you don't seem to have it in you to acknowledge that.

[054123]

5 minutes ago, Emperor Palpatine said:

Then you have a very short memory, almost laughable if you look back to last season, under SOD, under Del, under Millen and the list goes on...

It was awful.

Sorry, but this is dipping into madness. I have no idea what you are describing or indeed what you witnessed last year.

I think everyone needs to forget last season and move on. You think last year was in some way good, I think it was another year where we yet again battled away at the bottom end of the table, showing mo real progression from the promotion season.

We'll never agree.

[054123]

10 minutes ago, Emperor Palpatine said:

No different to most seasons...

Because you and others are disputing it was a disaster, I wouldn't say so. Underachieved? Maybe but considering this happens on a regular basis in the Championship with us... we either are relegated without a whimper or we flirt with the relegation zone but we recover and finish lower mid-table like this season.

GJ was the difference in recent memory reaching the playoffs and finished 10th the following season

Recover and finish lower mid table....

Sign me up for more!

[Jack Dawe]

10 minutes ago, Gazred said:

Interesting and positive article.

SL has it right about the haters being quiet when it's going well. 

I'm sure at one point people were trying to organise a protest at a game to get the board and manager out? Why not do it at the Brum match then? Plenty of people there, SL, MA etc all in attendance, lot of media coverage. You couldn't move for LJ out posts on here during the run of defeats.

Fickle or what.

It's what.

Steve, you remember, following the Fulham game, and in a RB interview with Geoff before the Wolves game, asked us to desist from the aggravation at the ground because he could see it making the players "shrink" all the way from Guernsey, via his laptop feed. He asked for "raucous" support for the team, and to keep all our "noise" to social media before or after the game. 

So we did. We did as requested. And it worked a treat.

So there you have it. 

 

 

 

 

[GodEmperor Palpatine]

7 minutes ago, 054123 said:

It was awful.

Sorry, but this is dipping into madness. I have no idea what you are describing or indeed what you witnessed last year.

I think everyone needs to forget last season and move on. You think last year was in some way good, I think it was another year where we yet again battled away at the bottom end of the table, showing mo real progression from the promotion season.

We'll never agree.

You are claiming performances are the worst you are likely to see, I've seen perfomances 10x worse... 5-0 away at Blackpool, 4-0 at home to Leicester, 4-1 at home to Fulham, 7-1 away at Swansea, 6-0 at home to Cardiff are examples but the list is endless

[JHAGa]

14 minutes ago, Emperor Palpatine said:

GJ was the difference in recent memory reaching the playoffs and finished 10th the following season

 

In the last 23 seasons, our highest finishes have been 4th, 10th, 10th and 15th at this level. Outside of the three year spell under GJ, 18th and 17th last season are some of the highest finishes we've had, the 5th and 6th highest finishes we've had in 23 years. But some continually go on about it being a disaster which is absurd. A disastrous run, absolutely. But a disastrous season, absolutely not. Not a successful season, not an awful one - it was just middle-ground.

 

0 net spend as I'm sure someone will point out how we spent money as always is the case, but they fail to recognise or acknowledge we lost a key player and had we not lost him I'm sure our position would have reflected the money spent as our start to the season seemed to suggest. We brought in reinforcements in January and improved. A finish one place higher than the season before but some people seem to have absurdly high expectations. Hope and wanting to finish higher is fine but expecting us to take the division by storm and comfortably finish top half is just very odd.

[LondonBristolian]

5 hours ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Who are they then ? 

I was one of the people who thought Johnson had to go and it annoys me that we get tarred with the brush of wanting him to fail. I want LJ to succeed, it is evident from your posts that you want LJ to succeed and I think the same is true of pretty much every supporter. We will criticise when things are not working because we want it to go well.

If I am honest, I could maybe name - I won't though - two posters on here who I suspect would rather LJ failed than that they had to acceot they were wrong to oppose his appointment. But it would be literally two posters and certainly the vast majority of people who - like you or I - have called for change this season have done so because it has not appeared to be working and not because we want LJ to fail. For the record, I hope SL is absolutely vindicated next year when LJ storms us to the title with a record points total. But I hope rather than expect.

 

One other thing - not read this whole thread and sorry if this was said already - I had not appreciated until I saw the article that LJ is still the youngest manager in the top two divisions. Based on that, I do accept I could have been more lenient when he has made mistakes. I hope to see next season that he has learned from them...

 

[bedminsterrred]

Did anyone else notice the part about scouting? Going to Verona and then to Man City. Hellas Verona have got a player called Bruno Zuculini on loan from Man City... maybe reading into this a bit much but is it a possibility? 

 

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/bruno-zuculini/profil/spieler/115507

['Orns]

4 hours ago, Tipps69 said:

Or more likely we could be owned by some Indian chicken breeders who ran us into the ground & we'd have an aging stadium with no training ground & staving off relegation into non-league football.

As it is, we have a Bristol City fan who is willing to pump millions of his own money into the club he loves to improve every facet of that club.

Given the choice of a chicken breeder or a fan of our club, I know who I'd prefer to have in charge & it isn't someone with no connection with our club.

Your scenario is far more likely, obviously, but we all remember Manchester City being an after thought in the Premiership, and being in Div 3

For the record, I'd rather have a City fan in charge, but I go back to the old arguement. On the pitch we have not improved that much in SL's time in charge. All that money.....

Nice ground though

[ChippenhamRed]

Someone will have to explain to me why the length of the bad run actually matters?  The only statistic that actually counts for anything is where we finished, because that's the only one that has the capacity to relegate or promote us, and that is the only statistic that encompasses all results.

We finished 17th.  In a season when the consensus expectation was a mid-table finish, that represents fairly mild underachievement - not a disaster.

It appears the main argument for sacking Johnson is because we had a long, bad run.  So what?  He did well either side of that, and he did well at the end of last season too.  The 8 run record losing streak is also cited as a reason to sack him.  Why does that matter when the season is 46 games long?  If we'd re-shuffled the results so a few of those defeats came at other times, but the overall set of results was the same, would that make it OK?

If you think Johnson's overall record isn't good enough - or 17th place this season isn't good enough - and that he should be sacked on that basis, fair enough.  But to judge him on any selective period of time makes no sense at all.

 

[BCFC Rich]

1 hour ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Oh, now that is sneaky! Breaking up the season into 3 blocks, why exactly? Purely because it suits your argument. A clever attempt mate, but that does not tell the story of that 5 months of extraordinarily poor form. The majority of the season.

Let me tell you that from witnessing every game we played in October - things started to go t1ts up from the Cardiff game onward. We turned in a shocking display there and similarly bad ones at QPR and v Blackburn at home, a game we were VERY fortunate to win.

From 14 October v Cardiff until 7 March v Norwich our record was as follows:

Played 25, won 3, drawn 6, lost 16, 0.6ppg (14 Oct - 7 Mar)

So, yes. REALLY we did have five months of abysmal, bottom-of the league form. Not the 3 you try and claim by manipulating the stats.

1

You are correct but your way of presenting is equally 'sneaky'. 14th October as start date happily misses out a run of 4 wins in a row and ends 7th March just before back to back wins. It also ignores a cup win against Fleetwood. ExiledAjax at least shows every game of the season (even if it does paint the middle in a better light), rather than literally only focusing on the worst part. If you were to pick our best periods you could make it look even better - eg first 11 games W 6 D 2 L 3 1.8 PPG or last 12 - W 6 D 3 L 3 1.75PPG. ExiledAjax's stats may not be perfect but at least the full context of the season is there. You can't call some sneaky and then present your stats for the worst period - "Purely because it suits your argument. A clever attempt mate, but that does not tell the story". The reality is P46 W15 D9 L22 1.2PPG total points 54 is they only ones that give no bias in the presentation at all - 17th in the league 37th best in the country. 

[BCFC Rich]

1 hour ago, Kid in the Riot said:

The debate was whether our "bad run" lasted 3 months or 5 months, it DEMONSTRABLY lasted for near enough 5 months. Over half of the season.

Still some trying

 

Okay having just got home and looked at this on my Laptop rather than phone and seen the whole thread I see what you were getting at now! Ignore the previous post as I can see we are in pretty much in agreement.