Tomlin Off Then?

[cheshire_red]

25 minutes ago, collier said:

Is that the counter argument then yes? No facts, just regurgitating what you said about him before that is only opinion not fact. If you are a body language or something then I bow down to your knowledge of what the players attitudes are during training and games, if not try using some facts to beat the man down.

Simply my opinion, no attempt to dress it up as anything else.

[Northern Red]

58 minutes ago, cheshire_red said:

He has undoubted talent, however, his unprofessional attitude is hindering that talent to his and his teams detriment.

Indeed. Because let's face it, if he had the attitude to match his talent, he wouldn't be playing for us, or probably anyone else in this division either. 

[Roger Red Hat]

8 minutes ago, Northern Red said:

Indeed. Because let's face it, if he had the attitude to match his talent, he wouldn't be playing for us, or probably anyone else in this division either. 

He isn't playing for us.

[BRISTOL86]

A very interesting stat is goals and assists combined ('contributions') vs minutes played 

Taylor - 7 contributions in 900 mins - 1 every 128 mins

Paterson - 8 contributions in 1408 mins - 1 every 176 mins

Tomlin - 11 contributions in 2707 mins - 1 every 246 mins.  

Other factors to consider but pretty evident that hard graft trumps technical brilliance.

Taylor has achieved nearly 2/3 of Tomlin's return in 1/3 of the game time.

Paterson has achieved nearly 3/4 in just over 1/2 of the game time. 

Borh players who are far inferior to Tomlin technically but work their bollocks off for the team. 

[REDOXO]

2 hours ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

LJ was well aware of Tomlin's reputation and even had the opportunity to study him for an extensive loan period before deciding on his suitability as a permanent signing.

If he was left with any doubts he could handle Tomlin in a way to get the best out of him, surely better to be on the safe side rather than obligate the club to a huge transfer fee and wages?

Whatever Tomlin's faults this season his own consistency of performance won't have been helped by LJ constantly fiddling with selection, formation and tactics.

If the manager seems so erratic with his decisions, is it any wonder the performances of individuals might follow suit?

Spot on!

Tomlin is what GJ termed a luxury player. He has the skill and the talent and is naturally either a forward or just behind the forwards finding them. 

Plying on the wing or any other position is a recipe for failure. The bloke lost confidence and the will to win. LJ needs to make his mind up if he is going to play him in his best position/s and if not let him go as I think it will not be good for anyone if he stays

[WhistleHappy]

8 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

Spot on!

Tomlin is what GJ termed a luxury player. He has the skill and the talent and is naturally either a forward or just behind the forwards finding them. 

Plying on the wing or any other position is a recipe for failure. The bloke lost confidence and the will to win (*or live!). LJ needs to make his mind up if he is going to play him in his best position/s and if not let him go as I think it will not be good for anyone if he stays

(*soz, couldn't resist a slight 'edit'  )

[collier]

21 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

A very interesting stat is goals and assists combined ('contributions') vs minutes played 

Taylor - 7 contributions in 900 mins - 1 every 128 mins

Paterson - 8 contributions in 1408 mins - 1 every 176 mins

Tomlin - 11 contributions in 2707 mins - 1 every 246 mins.  

Other factors to consider but pretty evident that hard graft trumps technical brilliance.

Taylor has achieved nearly 2/3 of Tomlin's return in 1/3 of the game time.

Paterson has achieved nearly 3/4 in just over 1/2 of the game time. 

Your correct but I would counter with saying that Taylor was not here and playing during our infamous losing run that was the fault of the entire team not just Tomlin, plus Patterson was not trusted to play more than about 100 minutes during that horrendous run. Taylor came at a time when Johnson had finally shuffled his formation and tactics around so much that he had finally found a way to play and get results. It's a lot easier to play well and get meaningful contributions when the whole team is playing well.

[Kid in the Riot]

59 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

A very interesting stat is goals and assists combined ('contributions') vs minutes played 

Taylor - 7 contributions in 900 mins - 1 every 128 mins

Paterson - 8 contributions in 1408 mins - 1 every 176 mins

Tomlin - 11 contributions in 2707 mins - 1 every 246 mins.  

Other factors to consider but pretty evident that hard graft trumps technical brilliance.

Taylor has achieved nearly 2/3 of Tomlin's return in 1/3 of the game time.

Paterson has achieved nearly 3/4 in just over 1/2 of the game time. 

Borh players who are far inferior to Tomlin technically but work their bollocks off for the team. 

Now do it with minutes versus contributions when each player was played in their correct position.

[Kid in the Riot]

59 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

A very interesting stat is goals and assists combined ('contributions') vs minutes played 

Taylor - 7 contributions in 900 mins - 1 every 128 mins

Paterson - 8 contributions in 1408 mins - 1 every 176 mins

Tomlin - 11 contributions in 2707 mins - 1 every 246 mins.  

Other factors to consider but pretty evident that hard graft trumps technical brilliance.

Taylor has achieved nearly 2/3 of Tomlin's return in 1/3 of the game time.

Paterson has achieved nearly 3/4 in just over 1/2 of the game time. 

Borh players who are far inferior to Tomlin technically but work their bollocks off for the team. 

Now do it with minutes versus contributions when each player was played in their correct position.

[WRERE]

6 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Now do it with minutes versus contributions when each player was played in their correct position.

You realise Patterson isn't primarily a winger / wide player too? His correct position would be the same as Tomlin but it didn't stop him contributing.  

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

LJ was well aware of Tomlin's reputation and even had the opportunity to study him for an extensive loan period before deciding on his suitability as a permanent signing.

If he was left with any doubts he could handle Tomlin in a way to get the best out of him, surely better to be on the safe side rather than obligate the club to a huge transfer fee and wages?

Whatever Tomlin's faults this season his own consistency of performance won't have been helped by LJ constantly fiddling with selection, formation and tactics.

If the manager seems so erratic with his decisions, is it any wonder the performances of individuals might follow suit?

Agree Nogs he`s not the first and wont be the last player our manager has been unable to manage, as you say he played on loan first and did well; LJ then makes a bucket load more signings but then realises that he dosent  know who to play and where.....hence our record breaking run of shite results. He then gets lucky and finds a team that just saves his bacon.

We now will be missing at least 2 of our most skilled footballers from our squad, they will take some replacing.

[Coombsy]

I think what went wrong is Tammy made all the head lines 

lee  Tomlin wanted to be top dog

there was a lot on here begging him to join us and once he did Tammy came along and got the lime light

 

[Major Isewater]

1 minute ago, Coombsy said:

I think what went wrong is Tammy made all the head lines 

lee  Tomlin wanted to be top dog

there was a lot on here begging him to join us and once he did Tammy came along and got the lime light

 

The little tinker . 

[Nogbad the Bad]

12 minutes ago, Coombsy said:

I think what went wrong is Tammy made all the head lines 

lee  Tomlin wanted to be top dog

 

Interesting theory Coombsy, you may have LT psychologically sussed out, but I really doubt Tammy envy had much to do with anything.

 

[Nogbad the Bad]

22 minutes ago, glos old boy said:

Agree Nogs he`s not the first and wont be the last player our manager has been unable to manage, as you say he played on loan first and did well; LJ then makes a bucket load more signings but then realises that he dosent  know who to play and where.....hence our record breaking run of shite results. He then gets lucky and finds a team that just saves his bacon.

We now will be missing at least 2 of our most skilled footballers from our squad, they will take some replacing.

Yes, Glos, an embarrassment of 'riches' assembled - the fabled 3rd window brought forward to January - with many of the untrusted newcomers then tried and discarded before settling on a majority core of Cotts.' ever dwindling tried and trusted Winners to save the day.

If we are to lose Tomlin and Flint as well as Tammy that's 3 of our most important and accomplished Championship performers gone.

Barring a truly miraculous set of signings as replacements I can only see the annual struggle commencing much earlier next season.

[Roger Red Hat]

38 minutes ago, glos old boy said:

We now will be missing at least 2 of our most skilled footballers from our squad, they will take some replacing.

You can count the number of decent performances by LT this season on one hand, we wont miss him.

We'll miss Tammy.

[Whitchurch1966]

10 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

Yes, Glos, an embarrassment of 'riches' assembled - the fabled 3rd window brought forward to January - with many of the untrusted newcomers then tried and discarded before settling on a majority core of Cotts.' ever dwindling tried and trusted Winners to save the day.

If we are to lose Tomlin and Flint as well as Tammy that's 3 of our most important and accomplished Championship performers gone.

Barring a truly miraculous set of signings as replacements I can only see the annual struggle commencing much earlier next season.

If's; but's and maybe's, the only one we know is going is Tammy.

[BRISTOL86]

1 hour ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Now do it with minutes versus contributions when each player was played in their correct position.

I don't really know what that means to be honest. I don't think Tomlin has played anywhere here that he didn't play at Boro? 

Any modern attacking midfielder should be fairly comfortable anywhere across an attacking third. 

Paterson has been used in wide and central positions and he's doing OK. 

[RedM]

1 hour ago, Roger Red Hat said:

You can count the number of decent performances by LT this season on one hand, we wont miss him.

We'll miss Tammy.

That's very true. We aren't very used to having season long loan players who have been successful are we? It will be quite odd for a while not seeing Tammy in our line up. He pretty much played every game when fit, as required by the agreement, yes he will be missed.

[1960maaan]

When we were shit, he was coming deeper to pick up the ball. Also , at that time people were hiding, not available to the man in possession on a regular basis. Tomlin , for all his faults would take the ball where ever he was and whoever was around him.
His eye for a pass , and ability to deliver that pass is unarguable , as is his control.
Sadly we couldn't accommodate him in what turned into a well organised , hard working side. It's a shame as that bit of flair could make us effective and attractive to watch. 
Next year( to start with at least ) I'll take hard working , effective and picking up points over attractive. 
If we can get the fast paced pass and move football going that we played occasionally I'd be delighted, but baby steps, be hard to beat and confident at home to start with. 
And as for Lee, thanks for the memories and I hope you don't come back to haunt us.

[chinapig]

8 hours ago, tinman85 said:

It's all about man management. Warnock/Redknapp would maximise that talent

So the fact that he ended up at Boston before GJ gave him the chance to rescue his career was presumably the fault of successive managers and in no way his own responsibility?

[BRISTOL86]

8 hours ago, tinman85 said:

It's all about man management. Warnock/Redknapp would maximise that talent

The same Redknapp that has just said 'no thanks' when offered Lee Tomlin? 

[Meh]

It may surprise some but I occasionally think deeply about things and can't help noting that Tomlins latest tweets are his memorable goals for all teams but notice his special mention is his best 6 for City.

My deep thinking has come to the conclusion that he is troubled and needs a hug (again) !!

I think his original tweet was aimed at getting lots of please don't go type responses and the rather surprising (in his mind) number of thanks for the memories and see you type responses has led to the "but look what I can do" tweets today.

I genuinely think he is another flawed genius with no life confidence (remember back to the YouTube interview when we were trying to sign him said as much).

I'm sure many may will say he is putting himself in the shop window but I think he simply has no idea what he wants and needs guidance counselling to sort his head out.

We have all been there in our jobs - do I want to stay, go and half the time that is frustration at salary, prospects etc but most of the time the unsettled feeling would be solved by a simple thanks for your efforts and keep it up!!

Worried we may be witnessing the unraveling of a good guy and purely from a human standpoint I don't want to see that happening to anybody, let alone somebody, who as it stands is one of our own.

Think the club need to help him get on or get out but do something as I think he is mentally troubled. Just a view !!

[BRISTOL86]

33 minutes ago, Neo said:

It may surprise some but I occasionally think deeply about things and can't help noting that Tomlins latest tweets are his memorable goals for all teams but notice his special mention is his best 6 for City.

My deep thinking has come to the conclusion that he is troubled and needs a hug (again) !!

I think his original tweet was aimed at getting lots of please don't go type responses and the rather surprising (in his mind) number of thanks for the memories and see you type responses has led to the "but look what I can do" tweets today.

I genuinely think he is another flawed genius with no life confidence (remember back to the YouTube interview when we were trying to sign him said as much).

I'm sure many may will say he is putting himself in the shop window but I think he simply has no idea what he wants and needs guidance counselling to sort his head out.

We have all been there in our jobs - do I want to stay, go and half the time that is frustration at salary, prospects etc but most of the time the unsettled feeling would be solved by a simple thanks for your efforts and keep it up!!

Worried we may be witnessing the unraveling of a good guy and purely from a human standpoint I don't want to see that happening to anybody, let alone somebody, who as it stands is one of our own.

Think the club need to help him get on or get out but do something as I think he is mentally troubled. Just a view !!

An interesting perspective and not one I'd considered. You'd hope there would be channels available at the club to recognise/support it and through something like the PFA(?) to offer help in these circumstances if that is the case, in the days of sports psychologists and behavioural therapists etc. you'd think it'd be a lot easier to detect if there were underlying mental health issues than in days gone by.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Roger Red Hat said:

You can count the number of decent performances by LT this season on one hand, we wont miss him.

We'll miss Tammy.

That's not quite true, we paid millions of pounds for a talented player.....of course we will miss him; and I can count the number of decent performances by the team on one hand..... in all. (more fingers and toes will however be needed, to count the shite ones)

[MigratedRobin]

No more tuggin' over Tomlin then?

[Red Army 75]

13 minutes ago, MigratedRobin said:

No more tuggin' over Tomlin then?

Don't know about that . I've tugged over a few EXs

[Super]

22 minutes ago, glos old boy said:

That's not quite true, we paid millions of pounds for a talented player.....of course we will miss him; and I can count the number of decent performances by the team on one hand..... in all. (more fingers and toes will however be needed, to count the shite ones)

What exactly will we miss?

[AppyDAZE]

4 minutes ago, Super said:

What exactly will we miss?

Can't give you the exact quote, but i do remember LJ saying on many occasions every team needs a maverick. Does this mean we will be looking for a new one or this something else our young manager is going to put down to experience?

[Lorenzos Only Goal]

A lot directing stuff at LJ here, think it boils down to the fact Tomlin has a lot of talent, but also a lot of issues, he has ongoing mental health problems and clearly struggles with fitness, I think he will just be one of those in and out of form players depending on his state of mind.