Lansdown- you're killing my club

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

Was the most ludicrous and misguided statement made last season by a tearful chap on Twentyman's phone in almost as sad a way as the 2 divorces/Thatcher's Government bloke who at least had a point when his club was relegated from the football league.

 Much of what was said last season was fake news, conspiratorial or just plain venom, deeply personal and wrong. Lansdown didn't kill our club, we didn't get relegated, the fans didn't stay away and Lee didn't lose the dressing room.

Every paying City fan is entitled to an opinion but where that opinion gets confused is in the ownership and possession of their club . Of course us fans get deeply sometimes obsessively emotionally attached to our club and the boundary between being a fan and having rights over what goes on gets blurred. We have a right to attend matches and expect to see committed players but much beyond that- we don't because we don't own our club- No we don't. We are the lifeblood of its existence but not the owners. Same as customers of any business.

Yesterday an OP accused the club of cheating the fans by entering into "undisclosed fees"- he felt as it was his money he had a right to know. The day that the fan receipts ( match day and merchandise) pay for the running of our football club then I suggest then and only then do we have a right to demand sackings/transfers and a change of ownership but until that happens we have an owner who funds the huge losses this club makes and it ain't because of ego, a rich man's plaything or a secret tax loss. It's because he loves BCFC and he loves sport and he loves Bristol.

So for him to be cast as the AntiChrist with LJ as his Satanic side kick is just plain ignorance. Killing our club? I think you could certainly accept the blue few thinking that about Higgs as they dropped out of the League and now without the stadium they so desperately needed. Bolton fans, Portsmouth fans, Morecambe , Hereford, Coventry, Orient, Blackburn  could all  all justifiably say that an owner was at some point killing their club but Lansdown? That's just plain silly and as laughable as it is ignorant.

So as we stand on the eve of another Championship campaign , let's just remember who owns the club and who makes the decisions and exactly who's money it is that buys us new players and gives us a superb stadium, training facilities and more than anything- optimism for the future. A BCFC for the future.

Players come and players go - that's football and Steve said as much. Wilbs going means more salary for a younger player with a career ahead not behind him, Flint going will be good business for the club but disappointing to many fans who have elevated him to iconic status. Conspiracy theories are exactly that- conspiracy theories. Those ITK are invariably guilty of "a little knowledge is dangerous". Yes people can of course get snippets but it seems usually that it's snippets given by someone with an agenda inside the club- the unhappy father of a player who thinks they should be paid more, the relative of an international who thinks he should play more, someone who lost their job, overlooked for promotion etc. But one things for certain the real truth is known only by 3 possibly 4 individuals who own and run the club and they don't talk. At least not to us.

The problem I have with some on OTIB and footie fans in general are those that are waiting for the club/manager to fail to prove they were right all along. Some posters only post negative comments and disappear if the club does well or switch their discontent to tickets, the price of bovril, or anything that perpetuates their negative outlook on life. 

Lee Johnson will eventually move on but not because the fans think he should but because him or Steve does. Players will come here because they get sold on a dream and a stack of cash and , if any good, will move to another club for exactly the same reason. And who can blame them in a career that's maybe 15 years long?

What pleases me most is that there's a great disconnect between the doom and gloom merchants and conspiratorial theorists on here and the passion displayed at BS3 even when we're on a bad run.

Another new season for us all and we aren't going to win every game and LJ will continue to learn by making mistakes same as any young Manager. The best news is that no one's killing our club- in fact they're breathing life into it.

 

[Monkeh]

one like isn't enough for that post, well said

[RUSSEL85]

1 minute ago, Monkeh said:

one like isn't enough for that post, well said

Quite agree.

[Redbo]

Tl;dr

[frenchred]

42 minutes ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

Was the most ludicrous and misguided statement made last season by a tearful chap on Twentyman's phone in almost as sad a way as the 2 divorces/Thatcher's Government bloke who at least had a point when his club was relegated from the football league.

 Much of what was said last season was fake news, conspiratorial or just plain venom, deeply personal and wrong. Lansdown didn't kill our club, we didn't get relegated, the fans didn't stay away and Lee didn't lose the dressing room.

Every paying City fan is entitled to an opinion but where that opinion gets confused is in the ownership and possession of their club . Of course us fans get deeply sometimes obsessively emotionally attached to our club and the boundary between being a fan and having rights over what goes on gets blurred. We have a right to attend matches and expect to see committed players but much beyond that- we don't because we don't own our club- No we don't. We are the lifeblood of its existence but not the owners. Same as customers of any business.

Yesterday an OP accused the club of cheating the fans by entering into "undisclosed fees"- he felt as it was his money he had a right to know. The day that the fan receipts ( match day and merchandise) pay for the running of our football club then I suggest then and only then do we have a right to demand sackings/transfers and a change of ownership but until that happens we have an owner who funds the huge losses this club makes and it ain't because of ego, a rich man's plaything or a secret tax loss. It's because he loves BCFC and he loves sport and he loves Bristol.

So for him to be cast as the AntiChrist with LJ as his Satanic side kick is just plain ignorance. Killing our club? I think you could certainly accept the blue few thinking that about Higgs as they dropped out of the League and now without the stadium they so desperately needed. Bolton fans, Portsmouth fans, Morecambe , Hereford, Coventry, Orient, Blackburn  could all  all justifiably say that an owner was at some point killing their club but Lansdown? That's just plain silly and as laughable as it is ignorant.

So as we stand on the eve of another Championship campaign , let's just remember who owns the club and who makes the decisions and exactly who's money it is that buys us new players and gives us a superb stadium, training facilities and more than anything- optimism for the future. A BCFC for the future.

Players come and players go - that's football and Steve said as much. Wilbs going means more salary for a younger player with a career ahead not behind him, Flint going will be good business for the club but disappointing to many fans who have elevated him to iconic status. Conspiracy theories are exactly that- conspiracy theories. Those ITK are invariably guilty of "a little knowledge is dangerous". Yes people can of course get snippets but it seems usually that it's snippets given by someone with an agenda inside the club- the unhappy father of a player who thinks they should be paid more, the relative of an international who thinks he should play more, someone who lost their job, overlooked for promotion etc. But one things for certain the real truth is known only by 3 possibly 4 individuals who own and run the club and they don't talk. At least not to us.

The problem I have with some on OTIB and footie fans in general are those that are waiting for the club/manager to fail to prove they were right all along. Some posters only post negative comments and disappear if the club does well or switch their discontent to tickets, the price of bovril, or anything that perpetuates their negative outlook on life. 

Lee Johnson will eventually move on but not because the fans think he should but because him or Steve does. Players will come here because they get sold on a dream and a stack of cash and , if any good, will move to another club for exactly the same reason. And who can blame them in a career that's maybe 15 years long?

What pleases me most is that there's a great disconnect between the doom and gloom merchants and conspiratorial theorists on here and the passion displayed at BS3 even when we're on a bad run.

Another new season for us all and we aren't going to win every game and LJ will continue to learn by making mistakes same as any young Manager. The best news is that no one's killing our club- in fact they're breathing life into it.

 

As long as its the same as yours egh!

[Ian M]

26 minutes ago, Redbo said:

Tl;dr

...Lansdown's ok, fans shouldn't overreact. 

Youre welcome  

[generation1]

wish I had put this post up I would have been proud ( correct English) of it.

well said

[Guest Stockwood nick]

Well said!! COYR's

[Norn Iron]

49 minutes ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

Another new season for us all and we aren't going to win every game and LJ will continue to learn by making mistakes same as any young Manager.

Marina, it was a great post until I read the above quote. It's so negative and pessimistic. I've reworded it for you.  Please edit it into your original. Thanks!

A new season for us all and we're going to win every game. LJ will continue to be a brilliant young manager.

 

[Jerseybean]

Thank you MRR for your post.

As we embark on a new season, with all of the inevitable ups, downs and emotions that will come with it, your post, which makes many valid points, serves as a solid reality check to City fans.

Everyone attached to BCFC has a part to play, as fans let's make that a full and supportive part.

 

[Welcome To The Jungle]

Football is the peoples game all over the world bar the UK where it is fast becoming quirky outdoor theatre for the middle classes. SL is part of the problem, along with most owners in the UK. The cheapest STs at AG are up 17% this year. But then again we don't want poorer people in the stadium do we? He dumped red on the Rugby Clubs kit last year, a move he presumably copied of Vincent Tan. Another sound decision.

If you posted this on an Italian, German, French or literally any other country football forum, what would the reaction be? The majority would laugh this off the forum. They know that the club is its supporters and the idea of an Owner dumping his crap branding (which no one can explain. Why do we need it?) whilst pushing prices up is rejected...outright.

Sure the stadium is nice but just because an estranged father buys his kid a loads of presents at Christmas, does not make it right. 

[Red DNA]

The entire topic should be pinned to the top of the page and made compulsory reading every time someone who is under 18 or not attended at least three seasons of gut wrenching angst of watching BCFC prior to posting comments about Sir Steve or ownership of the club. 

[Red DNA]

It's not 'crap branding' it's the way to run a successful business group.

Having different HR, managers, assistants, facilities, physics, training areas for all the sports he supports (yes that's what he's doing, he doesn't need to make more money) makes no business sense. Combine all those 'non-value added' (ugh) together into the brand makes for a more streamlined and efficient business allowing more funds for nice facilities and better players. 

[Merrick's Marvels]

How's the weather in cloud cuckooland today MMR?

COYR, let's smash them tykes tomorrow!

[Monkeh]

10 minutes ago, Welcome To The Jungle said:

Football is the peoples game all over the world bar the UK where it is fast becoming quirky outdoor theatre for the middle classes. SL is part of the problem, along with most owners in the UK. The cheapest STs at AG are up 17% this year. But then again we don't want poorer people in the stadium do we? He dumped red on the Rugby Clubs kit last year, a move he presumably copied of Vincent Tan. Another sound decision.

If you posted this on an Italian, German, French or literally any other country football forum, what would the reaction be? The majority would laugh this off the forum. They know that the club is its supporters and the idea of an Owner dumping his crap branding (which no one can explain. Why do we need it?) whilst pushing prices up is rejected...outright.

Sure the stadium is nice but just because an estranged father buys his kid a loads of presents at Christmas, does not make it right. 

You keep mention the price increase, it's not an increase its paying the same as everone else in that stand, why should you get special treatment while the rest of us pay more? you use the same facilities so you should have to pay the same as the rest of us full stop,

Yes in the atyeo and the east end and the williams you can pay less because its wasn't up to the standard of the rest of the ground but not now 

[Welcome To The Jungle]

3 minutes ago, williamsredngrey said:

It's not 'crap branding' it's the way to run a successful business group.

Having different HR, managers, assistants, facilities, physics, training areas for all the sports he supports (yes that's what he's doing, he doesn't need to make more money) makes no business sense. Combine all those 'non-value added' (ugh) together into the brand makes for a more streamlined and efficient business allowing more funds for nice facilities and better players. 

That's not what a brand is though is it? What you've stated is effectively cost sharing between the multiple teams which is fine. Please explain the reason behind the branding which is over-powering the individual brands of two clubs with over 250 years of combined history. 

[reddoh]

1 hour ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

Was the most ludicrous and misguided statement made last season by a tearful chap on Twentyman's phone in almost as sad a way as the 2 divorces/Thatcher's Government bloke who at least had a point when his club was relegated from the football league.

 Much of what was said last season was fake news, conspiratorial or just plain venom, deeply personal and wrong. Lansdown didn't kill our club, we didn't get relegated, the fans didn't stay away and Lee didn't lose the dressing room.

Every paying City fan is entitled to an opinion but where that opinion gets confused is in the ownership and possession of their club . Of course us fans get deeply sometimes obsessively emotionally attached to our club and the boundary between being a fan and having rights over what goes on gets blurred. We have a right to attend matches and expect to see committed players but much beyond that- we don't because we don't own our club- No we don't. We are the lifeblood of its existence but not the owners. Same as customers of any business.

Yesterday an OP accused the club of cheating the fans by entering into "undisclosed fees"- he felt as it was his money he had a right to know. The day that the fan receipts ( match day and merchandise) pay for the running of our football club then I suggest then and only then do we have a right to demand sackings/transfers and a change of ownership but until that happens we have an owner who funds the huge losses this club makes and it ain't because of ego, a rich man's plaything or a secret tax loss. It's because he loves BCFC and he loves sport and he loves Bristol.

So for him to be cast as the AntiChrist with LJ as his Satanic side kick is just plain ignorance. Killing our club? I think you could certainly accept the blue few thinking that about Higgs as they dropped out of the League and now without the stadium they so desperately needed. Bolton fans, Portsmouth fans, Morecambe , Hereford, Coventry, Orient, Blackburn  could all  all justifiably say that an owner was at some point killing their club but Lansdown? That's just plain silly and as laughable as it is ignorant.

So as we stand on the eve of another Championship campaign , let's just remember who owns the club and who makes the decisions and exactly who's money it is that buys us new players and gives us a superb stadium, training facilities and more than anything- optimism for the future. A BCFC for the future.

Players come and players go - that's football and Steve said as much. Wilbs going means more salary for a younger player with a career ahead not behind him, Flint going will be good business for the club but disappointing to many fans who have elevated him to iconic status. Conspiracy theories are exactly that- conspiracy theories. Those ITK are invariably guilty of "a little knowledge is dangerous". Yes people can of course get snippets but it seems usually that it's snippets given by someone with an agenda inside the club- the unhappy father of a player who thinks they should be paid more, the relative of an international who thinks he should play more, someone who lost their job, overlooked for promotion etc. But one things for certain the real truth is known only by 3 possibly 4 individuals who own and run the club and they don't talk. At least not to us.

The problem I have with some on OTIB and footie fans in general are those that are waiting for the club/manager to fail to prove they were right all along. Some posters only post negative comments and disappear if the club does well or switch their discontent to tickets, the price of bovril, or anything that perpetuates their negative outlook on life. 

Lee Johnson will eventually move on but not because the fans think he should but because him or Steve does. Players will come here because they get sold on a dream and a stack of cash and , if any good, will move to another club for exactly the same reason. And who can blame them in a career that's maybe 15 years long?

What pleases me most is that there's a great disconnect between the doom and gloom merchants and conspiratorial theorists on here and the passion displayed at BS3 even when we're on a bad run.

Another new season for us all and we aren't going to win every game and LJ will continue to learn by making mistakes same as any young Manager. The best news is that no one's killing our club- in fact they're breathing life into it.

 

here we go again another negative post.

I maybe proved wrong as early as Saturday but yes we will.

[Monkeh]

Just now, Welcome To The Jungle said:

That's not what a brand is though is it? What you've stated is effectively cost sharing between the multiple teams which is fine. Please explain the reason behind the branding which is over-powering the individual brands of two clubs with over 250 years of combined history. 

last time i checked the branding said Bristol City on it

[Luxo Jr.]

It's not the people who purely have opinions like this that I have a problem with - while I agree with you on Lansdown's right to do with the club what he will, it's very, very easy to see the view of fans who believe they should have at least some say in what happens at the club.

No, what I can't stand is the people (and yes, I mean on either side of the Johnson debate), who begin every post by saying something like:

"while you have your blinkered/clueless/wrong opinion, soon everyone will see that I was right!"

I have no problem with debates getting heated, but I immediately switch off when I read posts that start like that. This isn't something we want to win - we want City to win. If we actually have a proper discourse without all the smug chestbeating, I reckon we'd end up on the same page with a lot of City talk, and with far less ill will.

 

[Phileas Fogg]

7 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

You keep mention the price increase, it's not an increase its paying the same as everone else in that stand, why should you get special treatment while the rest of us pay more? you use the same facilities so you should have to pay the same as the rest of us full stop,

Yes in the atyeo and the east end and the williams you can pay less because its wasn't up to the standard of the rest of the ground but not now 

I think that's a small section of his wider point you've chosen to focus on. I don't think the former EE/Williams/Atyeo group who are now in the SS demand cheaper tickets so it's wrong to attempt to misrepresent this. He's not saying he should pay less, just that it's a shame tickets are they price they are.

WTTJ is a big advocate of 20 is plenty which is a whole different argument.

[Welcome To The Jungle]

2 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

You keep mention the price increase, it's not an increase its paying the same as everone else in that stand, why should you get special treatment while the rest of us pay more? you use the same facilities so you should have to pay the same as the rest of us full stop,

Yes in the atyeo and the east end and the williams you can pay less because its wasn't up to the standard of the rest of the ground but not now 

Why doesn't everyone pay less? I did the maths on another thread a few months ago and I think the club would be 180,000 worse off if the SS payed last seasons Atyeo prices. That assumes that no one buys more food with their extra cash in hand and no extra fans take up cheaper tickets. 

Our cheapest tickets are double Huddersfield's (who got promoted) last season and they could sit anywhere in the ground. We're being fleeced. 

Just now, Monkeh said:

last time i checked the branding said Bristol City on it

Play a game of count the logos. I make it 4-2 to Bristol Sport over Bristol City

This is a particularly fun game. However no one can still answer the question, why is it necessary? 

[Spud55]

7 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

last time i checked the branding said Bristol City on it

I'm sorry but it clearly all says Bristol Sport, but your blinkered view will only allow you to see Bristol City , as anyone can clearly see by all the reports about us in the news we are obviously no longer Bristol City FC but Bristol Sport, look at the league table we are obviously down as Bristol Sport.

RIP Bristol City FC.

[Septic Peg]

What a spot on post MRR. 

Lansdown made his choice and we have to watch whether we agree or not but like you say, we will still be here long after LJ, Wilbs, Flinty etc have gone.

20 odd years of City under my belt and it's still the hope that hurts most. Disappointment I can deal with but hope gets me right in the gut everytime.

[Red Exile]

The suggestion that SL is "killing" the club isn't one I'd agree with. But I can't agree with the sunnier views of his stewardship either. The ground now looks great but a glance at the league tables will show you that we remain a League One/Championship yo-yo club. If that was his objective it's not one he's ever shared publicly...I think he'd expected more...let's hope things will move forward on the pitch this season.

[J.V.F]

Good post MRR! 

Whilst I can certainly understand and appreciate the frustrations of last season, it is water under the bridge and we are now on the eve of a new season starting with a clean slate.

Lets get behind the team and see where it takes us.

[EnderMB]

I disagree with the main point of the story, but I agree with your criticisms of the previous post.

Regarding the previous persons opinion, in reality the fans don't provide that much in terms of income to a club. Gone are the days where the fans can say that they pay the players wages. In reality, it's around 10% of their wages. Additionally, the club is a private entity, so they have no more reason to disclose their accounts than any of us do. With that being said, "undisclosed" usually means "we got shafted by the other team", especially when that other team decides to say how much they paid. As sad as it sounds, we're all customers: nothing more, nothing less.

For me, Lansdown should be judged as any leader would be judged, on the performance of his team. That means that even though he's poured a lot of money into this club, he shouldn't be free of criticism for taking the club down the wrong path. Much of the criticism is not around hiring the wrong personnel, but around the overall approach of the club, and that is entirely Lansdown's fault. In my view, the five pillars strategy is what relegated us in the past. Its removal during the Cotterill era got us promoted again, only for it to return the second we get promoted. Lee Johnson's appointment was largely because he agreed with his Lansdown wants to run the club, and we're now at the fabled point where we see if the clubs position on youth is going to pay off.

Lansdown has done brilliantly as an owner, but the criticism he received last season was 100% justified. With that being said, it's a new season, and the club deserves a fresh slate to prove that they know what they are doing. If the club succeed then LJ has done a good job, and Lansdown/Ashton and co can be happy with their work. If the club flirt with relegation again then LJ should be sacked, and Lansdown would rightly receive criticism once again for hiring a Yes Man.

[Monkeh]

6 minutes ago, Welcome To The Jungle said:

Why doesn't everyone pay less? I did the maths on another thread a few months ago and I think the club would be 180,000 worse off if the SS payed last seasons Atyeo prices. That assumes that no one buys more food with their extra cash in hand and no extra fans take up cheaper tickets. 

Our cheapest tickets are double Huddersfield's (who got promoted) last season and they could sit anywhere in the ground. We're being fleeced. 

Play a game of count the logos. I make it 4-2 to Bristol Sport over Bristol City

This is a particularly fun game. However no one can still answer the question, why is it necessary? 

so are 11 other clubs in the championship then because their cheapest is more expensive then our, in fact we are bang average, its to high but unless the the entire ELF change then there is nothing we can do about it,

My ticket hasn't gone up since I moved to the south stand and since before that it never went up when I was in the east end/williams, in fact the last time it went up was 2008 when I was in the Atyeo, I was paying 347 quid then I'm paying 370 now a 6% increase in 9 years

[Monkeh]

5 minutes ago, Red Exile said:

The suggestion that SL is "killing" the club isn't one I'd agree with. But I can't agree with the sunnier views of his stewardship either. The ground now looks great but a glance at the league tables will show you that we remain a League One/Championship yo-yo club. If that was his objective it's not one he's ever shared publicly...I think he'd expected more...let's hope things will move forward on the pitch this season.

we aren't a yo-you club we've been relegated 3 times since 1982

[downendcity]

20 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

last time i checked the branding said Bristol City on it

Ah, but those wanting to look  for a problem you will look much harder than you in order to find it Monkeh. 

 

[Phileas Fogg]

2 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

so are 11 other clubs in the championship then because their cheapest is more expensive then our, in fact we are bang average, its to high but unless the the entire ELF change then there is nothing we can do about it,

My ticket hasn't gone up since I moved to the south stand and since before that it never went up when I was in the east end/williams, in fact the last time it went up was 2008 when I was in the Atyeo, I was paying 347 quid then I'm paying 370 now a 6% increase in 9 years

Is there anything at all since the Bristol Sport involvement that you don't like?

[SARJ]

He's certainly no anti-Christ, but Lansdown certainly went down in my estimations last season, especially his comments about us not voicing dissatisfaction with the dire performances/manager.

[Welcome To The Jungle]

Just now, Monkeh said:

so are 11 other clubs in the championship then because their cheapest is more expensive then our, in fact we are bang average, its to high but unless the the entire ELF change then there is nothing we can do about it,

My ticket hasn't gone up since I moved to the south stand and since before that it never went up when I was in the east end/williams, in fact the last time it went up was 2008 when I was in the Atyeo, I was paying 347 quid then I'm paying 370 now a 6% increase in 9 years

Yes. The problem lies within English football, not just SL, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try and be better than everyone else. You could get a ST at nearly any club in the world outside the UK for cheaper than you are paying. English football is broken but I'd love BCFC to be something that is right in the broken system, rather than just going along with it.

I'm not suggesting anything radical though. I'm suggesting cheaper prices, not for me, but for everyone. 

[downendcity]

15 minutes ago, Welcome To The Jungle said:

Why doesn't everyone pay less? I did the maths on another thread a few months ago and I think the club would be 180,000 worse off if the SS payed last seasons Atyeo prices. That assumes that no one buys more food with their extra cash in hand and no extra fans take up cheaper tickets. 

Our cheapest tickets are double Huddersfield's (who got promoted) last season and they could sit anywhere in the ground. We're being fleeced. 

Play a game of count the logos. I make it 4-2 to Bristol Sport over Bristol City

This is a particularly fun game. However no one can still answer the question, why is it necessary? 

In terms of prominence, what do I notice the most when I see this?

Firstly the shirt sponsor's name, booth's fair enough in view of what they pay for the sponsorship. The next thing is the two City badges - the club branding.

If I look hard I can see smudges on shirt and socks but couldn't tell you what they represent - unless I already knew, of course - and at a guess many would think it the kit suppliers branding.

If I'm honest, the thing I noticed first of all is Marlon's tattoos,  but that's a different issue !

 

[Red Exile]

Just now, Monkeh said:

we aren't a yo-you club we've been relegated 3 times since 1982

Have it your way but that's what we currently appear to be to me. However, if we're going back to our status since 1982 it would probably be more accurate to call us a League One club that occasionally gets promoted... yo-yo is far too optimistic! We've not felt an established Championship club since GJ left, and then only briefly. If SL was planning to build a club fit for the Prem...and I know he was...he's still got a long way to go.

[reddoh]

20 minutes ago, Septic Peg said:

What a spot on post MRR. 

Lansdown made his choice and we have to watch whether we agree or not but like you say, we will still be here long after LJ, Wilbs, Flinty etc have gone.

20 odd years of City under my belt and it's still the hope that hurts most. Disappointment I can deal with but hope gets me right in the gut everytime.

yep

[Major Isewater]

1 hour ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

Was the most ludicrous and misguided statement made last season by a tearful chap on Twentyman's phone in almost as sad a way as the 2 divorces/Thatcher's Government bloke who at least had a point when his club was relegated from the football league.

 Much of what was said last season was fake news, conspiratorial or just plain venom, deeply personal and wrong. Lansdown didn't kill our club, we didn't get relegated, the fans didn't stay away and Lee didn't lose the dressing room.

Every paying City fan is entitled to an opinion but where that opinion gets confused is in the ownership and possession of their club . Of course us fans get deeply sometimes obsessively emotionally attached to our club and the boundary between being a fan and having rights over what goes on gets blurred. We have a right to attend matches and expect to see committed players but much beyond that- we don't because we don't own our club- No we don't. We are the lifeblood of its existence but not the owners. Same as customers of any business.

Yesterday an OP accused the club of cheating the fans by entering into "undisclosed fees"- he felt as it was his money he had a right to know. The day that the fan receipts ( match day and merchandise) pay for the running of our football club then I suggest then and only then do we have a right to demand sackings/transfers and a change of ownership but until that happens we have an owner who funds the huge losses this club makes and it ain't because of ego, a rich man's plaything or a secret tax loss. It's because he loves BCFC and he loves sport and he loves Bristol.

So for him to be cast as the AntiChrist with LJ as his Satanic side kick is just plain ignorance. Killing our club? I think you could certainly accept the blue few thinking that about Higgs as they dropped out of the League and now without the stadium they so desperately needed. Bolton fans, Portsmouth fans, Morecambe , Hereford, Coventry, Orient, Blackburn  could all  all justifiably say that an owner was at some point killing their club but Lansdown? That's just plain silly and as laughable as it is ignorant.

So as we stand on the eve of another Championship campaign , let's just remember who owns the club and who makes the decisions and exactly who's money it is that buys us new players and gives us a superb stadium, training facilities and more than anything- optimism for the future. A BCFC for the future.

Players come and players go - that's football and Steve said as much. Wilbs going means more salary for a younger player with a career ahead not behind him, Flint going will be good business for the club but disappointing to many fans who have elevated him to iconic status. Conspiracy theories are exactly that- conspiracy theories. Those ITK are invariably guilty of "a little knowledge is dangerous". Yes people can of course get snippets but it seems usually that it's snippets given by someone with an agenda inside the club- the unhappy father of a player who thinks they should be paid more, the relative of an international who thinks he should play more, someone who lost their job, overlooked for promotion etc. But one things for certain the real truth is known only by 3 possibly 4 individuals who own and run the club and they don't talk. At least not to us.

The problem I have with some on OTIB and footie fans in general are those that are waiting for the club/manager to fail to prove they were right all along. Some posters only post negative comments and disappear if the club does well or switch their discontent to tickets, the price of bovril, or anything that perpetuates their negative outlook on life. 

Lee Johnson will eventually move on but not because the fans think he should but because him or Steve does. Players will come here because they get sold on a dream and a stack of cash and , if any good, will move to another club for exactly the same reason. And who can blame them in a career that's maybe 15 years long?

What pleases me most is that there's a great disconnect between the doom and gloom merchants and conspiratorial theorists on here and the passion displayed at BS3 even when we're on a bad run.

Another new season for us all and we aren't going to win every game and LJ will continue to learn by making mistakes same as any young Manager. The best news is that no one's killing our club- in fact they're breathing life into it.

 

Thank you for your contribution Maggie.

[GrahamC]

Good for you, MRR.

Delighted to see the obligatory irrelevant mention of Leyton Orient, too.

[Redbo]

49 minutes ago, Welcome To The Jungle said:

Why doesn't everyone pay less? I did the maths on another thread a few months ago and I think the club would be 180,000 worse off if the SS payed last seasons Atyeo prices. That assumes that no one buys more food with their extra cash in hand and no extra fans take up cheaper tickets. 

Our cheapest tickets are double Huddersfield's (who got promoted) last season and they could sit anywhere in the ground. We're being fleeced. 

Play a game of count the logos. I make it 4-2 to Bristol Sport over Bristol City

This is a particularly fun game. However no one can still answer the question, why is it necessary? 

In the case of the logo on the kit, BS make it. If Adidas or Nike or whoever else made it it, their logo would out number the City one. 

[Davefevs]

48 minutes ago, Welcome To The Jungle said:

Why doesn't everyone pay less? I did the maths on another thread a few months ago and I think the club would be 180,000 worse off if the SS payed last seasons Atyeo prices. That assumes that no one buys more food with their extra cash in hand and no extra fans take up cheaper tickets. 

Our cheapest tickets are double Huddersfield's (who got promoted) last season and they could sit anywhere in the ground. We're being fleeced. 

Play a game of count the logos. I make it 4-2 to Bristol Sport over Bristol City

This is a particularly fun game. However no one can still answer the question, why is it necessary? 

But aren't those 4 BS logos the 'manufacturer' logos in this case?  Subtle Branding, Clever Branding, Too Much Branding....you decide.

What would be in those positions if they were made by Adidas or Umbro?  Their logos.

As above, I'm drawn to the City badge and the sponsor.

(luckily I can't see the Oxford tag!)

[Davefevs]

4 minutes ago, Redbo said:

In the case of the logo on the kit, BS make it. If Adidas or Nike or whoever else made it it, their logo would out number the City one. 

Darn you fast typers!

[Major Isewater]

3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Darn you fast typers!

Yes Dave it's true , Steve Cotterill's been sacked .

[Jack Dawe]

29 minutes ago, Red Exile said:

Have it your way but that's what we currently appear to be to me. However, if we're going back to our status since 1982 it would probably be more accurate to call us a League One club that occasionally gets promoted... yo-yo is far too optimistic! We've not felt an established Championship club since GJ left, and then only briefly. If SL was planning to build a club fit for the Prem...and I know he was...he's still got a long way to go.

There are so many ways of looking at things - we go into our 9th Championship season in eleven seasons tomorrow, under SL. That's pretty good, post 1980. No PL yet under SL but he is keeping our heads just above the Championship water, for the most part.

But I know what you mean!

 

[Natchfever]

35 minutes ago, Red Exile said:

Have it your way but that's what we currently appear to be to me. However, if we're going back to our status since 1982 it would probably be more accurate to call us a League One club that occasionally gets promoted... yo-yo is far too optimistic! We've not felt an established Championship club since GJ left, and then only briefly. If SL was planning to build a club fit for the Prem...and I know he was...he's still got a long way to go.

I make it 13 out of 35 seasons in this league and below that for the remainder. Happily stand corrected, but it tends to support your view that we are league 1 who come up for air occasionally, accepting that the most recent history makes us more second tier.. 

[Monkeh]

48 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Is there anything at all since the Bristol Sport involvement that you don't like?

the BS logo, its shit, The BS website its a bit shit too, other then that I don't see much difference from before them and after them,

[Redbo]

14 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Darn you fast typers!

Great minds and all that eh. 

[Phileas Fogg]

1 minute ago, Monkeh said:

the BS logo, its shit, The BS website its a bit shit too, other then that I don't see much difference from before them and after them,

I mean really the 'feel' of the football club. I like some aspects of the 'new way' but there were things I felt the 'old way' did better.

 

[Monkeh]

47 minutes ago, Welcome To The Jungle said:

Yes. The problem lies within English football, not just SL, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try and be better than everyone else. You could get a ST at nearly any club in the world outside the UK for cheaper than you are paying. English football is broken but I'd love BCFC to be something that is right in the broken system, rather than just going along with it.

I'm not suggesting anything radical though. I'm suggesting cheaper prices, not for me, but for everyone. 

Oh I wholly agree with that, we should be paying no more then 20 quid a ticket in the championship, thats a fair price,

Infact I think I posted it before,

Prem = No more then 30 quid

Championship = No more then 20

League one = no more then 15 quid

LEague 2 = no more then a tenner

8 quid for conference

[Monkeh]

Just now, Phileas Fogg said:

I mean really the 'feel' of the football club. I like some aspects of the 'new way' but there were things I felt the 'old way' did better.

 

Thats looking at it through the old rose tinted googles, City are no different then most other Clubs, Bristol Sport in no evil empire trying to destroy our history,

Modern football as a whole is just not what it use to be and really a bit shitty, I Loved the atmosphere on the terracing some of the best times and people fondly remember it, but they forget the aggro you use to get to go along side it,

[Merrick's Marvels]

57 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

we aren't a yo-you club we've been relegated 3 times since 1982

[Monkeh]

1 minute ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

why the face? do you not like me using facts to back up an argument?

[Redbo]

4 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I mean really the 'feel' of the football club. I like some aspects of the 'new way' but there were things I felt the 'old way' did better.

 

I think they have been mostly positive in what they've done for Bristol City. I'm sure they have faults, what company doesn't? But I have to say, they rarely enter my mind when it comes to Bristol City. Football is a different beast to what it was 20 years ago. Is that Bristol Sports fault? No. They're just operating in a way to survive in football's current guise. 

[reddoh]

16 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

Yes Dave it's true , Steve Cotterill's been sacked .

bloody hell where does time go who is the new manager? have we met him before

[Merrick's Marvels]

2 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

why the face? do you not like me using facts to back up an argument?

[BRISTOL86]

A bit like the other day when I read that we were on a 'downward spiral' having just finished higher than the season before for the third consecutive season. 

Hyperbole and ignorance are a dangerous mix. 

[DingleRed]

24 minutes ago, Loon plage said:

I make it 13 out of 35 seasons in this league and below that for the remainder. Happily stand corrected, but it tends to support your view that we are league 1 who come up for air occasionally, accepting that the most recent history makes us more second tier.. 

9 out of 11 seasons (including this) in the Championship rather suggests we have progressed somewhat under SL.

[Natchfever]

4 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

why the face? do you not like me using facts to back up an argument?

Youre technically right Monkeh but the majority of those 35 years have been in the third division.Therefore not yo yo, perhaps just shit. Take snapshots from within those years and anyone can come up with stats to prove whatever point they want. SL has been at the helm for how long, 15 years? We have probably been in the 2nd and 3rd tier about the same amount of time during his tenure which possibly supports the yo yo view. I think the OP hasn't helped to be honest and has simply stoked the fire yet again Fans are willing to forgive and forget - unless they are reminded of why they were pissed off in the first place.

[Chivs]

42 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

But aren't those 4 BS logos the 'manufacturer' logos in this case?  Subtle Branding, Clever Branding, Too Much Branding....you decide.

What would be in those positions if they were made by Adidas or Umbro?  Their logos.

As above, I'm drawn to the City badge and the sponsor.

(luckily I can't see the Oxford tag!)

I'm drawn to the Kate Moss Dalek in the background.  Proper scary.  Doesn't mater where you are in the room, it is always staring at you.

[downendcity]

26 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

Oh I wholly agree with that, we should be paying no more then 20 quid a ticket in the championship, thats a fair price,

Infact I think I posted it before,

Prem = No more then 30 quid

Championship = No more then 20

League one = no more then 15 quid

LEague 2 = no more then a tenner

8 quid for conference

Rovers - no more than £50 (  what they pay you to go!)

 

[BcfcDuncs]

Brilliant post

[downendcity]

14 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

A bit like the other day when I read that we were on a 'downward spiral' having just finished higher than the season before for the third consecutive season. 

Hyperbole and ignorance are a dangerous mix. 

That they might be, but essential ingredients for this forum.

[Monkeh]

9 minutes ago, Loon plage said:

Youre technically right Monkeh but the majority of those 35 years have been in the third division.Therefore not yo yo, perhaps just shit. Take snapshots from within those years and anyone can come up with stats to prove whatever point they want. SL has been at the helm for how long, 15 years? We have probably been in the 2nd and 3rd tier about the same amount of time during his tenure which possibly supports the yo yo view. I think the OP hasn't helped to be honest and has simply stoked the fire yet again Fans are willing to forgive and forget - unless they are reminded of why they were pissed off in the first place.

since lansdown has been in charge I think its 9 in the championship and 4 in league one, including some play-off finals 2 football league tropheys and a league title, not as good as we like but not as shit as people make out,

We are bang average and sadly to become a top top team thats going to take time, or another 100 million quid, which ever comes first

[Natchfever]

Just now, Monkeh said:

since lansdown has been in charge I think its 9 in the championship and 4 in league one, including some play-off finals 2 football league tropheys and a league title, not as good as we like but not as shit as people make out,

We are bang average and sadly to become a top top team thats going to take time, or another 100 million quid, which ever comes first

Fair do's. I think what upsets some people is that other clubs have done far far better on much less resources, so I do wonder if more time and tens of millions is the answer. Third division trophies are a bit meh when you have a clearly generous billionaire in charge, but I live in hope that one day the right people are brought into the club at whatever it costs, enabling SL to take more of a backseat and we then move forward as I believe we should.

[Monkeh]

4 minutes ago, Loon plage said:

Fair do's. I think what upsets some people is that other clubs have done far far better on much less resources, so I do wonder if more time and tens of millions is the answer. Third division trophies are a bit meh when you have a clearly generous billionaire in charge, but I live in hope that one day the right people are brought into the club at whatever it costs, enabling SL to take more of a backseat and we then move forward as I believe we should.

I don't think its a bit meh considering its our first league title for 60 years,

Also remember while Lansdown is generous with his money, he's been in charge of city longer then he's been a billionaire, I think when we got to the play-off final he was on;y worth about 200 or 300 million, so wouldnt of been as loose with the purse strings as he has been 

[reddogkev]

On the whole, very good post, though I'd take issue with fans being compared - even on the slightest degree - to customers, and even though we don't own the club - no doubt we'd all love to if we had the money to stump up.  A football fan is far more than a customer, as we all know, and is often a very passionate and committed 'warrior' for the cause of the club.

Part of truly supporting a club is feeling like you belong to the club and are indeed part of everything.  You are born and raised as a City fan, and it becomes integral to you as a person, so the passion is understandable, and should be fanned, not suppressed.  However, the critical abuse aimed at Stephen Lansdown last season was truly terrible. 

It would be interesting to see how well this thread would be received in the face of an ugly patch this season.  How many rational minded city fans would quickly turn against SL.  We've all read it on here several times over the past decade.  We all know the usual (small) noisy group will still be tearing strips off of the great man if things look bleak again this season.  It never seems to change, but would be great if SL didn't suffer personal attacks when things inevitably go wrong in such a demanding, competitive league.

[Phileas Fogg]

43 minutes ago, Redbo said:

I think they have been mostly positive in what they've done for Bristol City. I'm sure they have faults, what company doesn't? But I have to say, they rarely enter my mind when it comes to Bristol City. Football is a different beast to what it was 20 years ago. Is that Bristol Sports fault? No. They're just operating in a way to survive in football's current guise. 

Fair comment. I think some of it is necessary. But the influence certain members of staff have over things is a bit worrying. Good people losing their jobs for seemingly no reason.

I don't like how corporate some of our communications are either.. and if I was to be really picky I think the South Stand is a dreadful replacement for the fantastic East End.

Overall, some good and some bad but the club is probably equipped to compete as a result.

[Redbo]

Just now, Phileas Fogg said:

Fair comment. I think some of it is necessary. But the influence certain members of staff have over things is a bit worrying. Good people losing their jobs for seemingly no reason.

I don't like how corporate some of our communications are either.. and if I was to be really picky I think the South Stand is a dreadful replacement for the fantastic East End.

Overall, some good and some bad but the club is probably equipped to compete as a result.

I think your last paragraph sums it up nicely. With all Bristol Sport bring we'll be able to compete (hopefully) at the top of this league and beyond. Is that to the detriment of people's enjoyment of football? I suppose it comes down to what you want from supporting the club. For me, I'd rather have stability and sustainability, then, in theory, comes success. 

[Monkeh]

5 minutes ago, Redbo said:

I think your last paragraph sums it up nicely. With all Bristol Sport bring we'll be able to compete (hopefully) at the top of this league and beyond. Is that to the detriment of people's enjoyment of football? I suppose it comes down to what you want from supporting the club. For me, I'd rather have stability and sustainability, then, in theory, comes success. 

yep and once we get a decent manager that will come,  

[Phileas Fogg]

6 minutes ago, Redbo said:

I think your last paragraph sums it up nicely. With all Bristol Sport bring we'll be able to compete (hopefully) at the top of this league and beyond. Is that to the detriment of people's enjoyment of football? I suppose it comes down to what you want from supporting the club. For me, I'd rather have stability and sustainability, then, in theory, comes success. 

Yeah I hope so. We do feel like a more modern football club now. Hopefully we can get the right equilibrium with the atmosphere this season - that's definitely been worse since the rebuild. The group in the Atyeo have tried, but I just feel noise doesn't carry well and people didn't join in. Hoping now that their relocation will be the catalyst for the rest of the ground.

Was symbolic for me I guess, the EE which I felt was a fantastic stand (old and a terrible view aside) ripped down and replaced by a soulless identikit replacement in the South Stand. Saying that, the acoustics are good and I really hope the atmosphere improves this season.

[Monkeh]

Just now, Phileas Fogg said:

Yeah I hope so. We do feel like a more modern football club now. Hopefully we can get the right equilibrium with the atmosphere this season - that's definitely been worse since the rebuild. The group in the Atyeo have tried, but I just feel noise doesn't carry well and people didn't join in. Hoping now that their relocation will be the catalyst for the rest of the ground.

Was symbolic for me I guess, the EE which I felt was a fantastic stand (old and a terrible view aside) ripped down and replaced by a soulless identikit replacement in the South Stand. Saying that, the acoustics are good and I really hope the atmosphere improves this season.

I think its been worse because they were in the atyeo and not the South Stand as originally planned,

I remember when the EE shut and we went to the atyeo (1994?) we've always struggled to make noise in that stand, In the south stand with the nutters ultras and section 82 making the noise, you will notice a massive difference, the sounds carry well and some of us old farts will prob join in a bit as well

[Phileas Fogg]

7 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

I think its been worse because they were in the atyeo and not the South Stand as originally planned,

I remember when the EE shut and we went to the atyeo (1994?) we've always struggled to make noise in that stand, In the south stand with the nutters ultras and section 82 making the noise, you will notice a massive difference, the sounds carry well and some of us old farts will prob join in a bit as well

I agree. The Atyeo has always seemed to have awful acoustics and sound just doesn't carry well.

The SS's acoustics seem really good and people will probably feel a bit less self conscious about joining in if there's noise carrying all around the ground. Excited to see and hear it in action.