Jens Hegeler

[cityred exile]

Really love to think that Jens " Rolls Royce " Hegeler  would come in for Marlon against the tractor boys ,  Reckon against Skusey would be the perfect match ,   However listening to L J In his press conference I think Josh  will slot in central ,   Personally I would play Brownhill wide right to start , and the bring on  Eliasson as a impact sub later in the match

[Rossi the Robin]

Is he injured? Not in squad Tuesday, thought he might have got the start

Changing the subject slightly a few of us in the South Stand thought Brownhill should have come on against 10 men, down the right taking Bailey Wright off as he was in a lot of space right side? 

[Red_Nine]

Think playing Hegeler against skuse would almost play into Ipswich's hands, with Josh's legs in midfield you put skuse on the back foot Immediately 

[And Its Smith]

Would be a nightmare playing him in a midfield two against Ipswich.  Brownhill has to come in for Pack as we have a plethora of wide options

[steviestevieneville]

Horses for courses . Marlon suspended I know but he hasn't started as much away from home . LJ seems to prefer josh and Korey away from home, both cover more ground when we don't have the majority of the ball. At home when we do , it's Taylor made for pack . 

[YorkshireSection]

Smith & Brownhill complement each other perfectly, I think LJ has found his fave pairing by accident with Smith gaining form from fitness, IMHO him and Josh are only going to get better the more they play together, a definite improvement on last season.

[RedM]

When Pack got  booked and I knew he would be out on Saturday I was expecting Brownhill to be one of the first subs. Now I'm thinking he wasn't involved as we wanted to keep him fresh for Saturday. He does seem to be able to slot straight in so I've no worries about that. 

[CliftonCliff]

There was a thread devoted to Hegeler earlier this week. It got hijacked at the end by some frivolous nonsense and fizzled out, which was a pity because it raised some interesting and important issues about his current standing in the squad. I was one of those who expressed admiration for Hegeler as a player and concern that we could end up losing a very good footballer through sheer lack of opportunity.

Unless he was injured on Tuesday (and there has been nothing to suggest that was the case), his omission from the squad is troubling. You wonder what is the current view held by the coaching team. Last season LJ was quoted at one point as saying they could see the side being built around him. At the start of the current campaign he was being touted as a cultured central defender who would fit with the aim to play constructive football from the back. Then he was benched, now he isn't even in the match day squad. 

I am aware of course that we have made a great start to the season and are blessed with options across both midfield and defence: it would be hard to argue for the omission of Pack, Brownhill, Smith, Flint, Wright or Baker to accommodate him, but there is a danger that Hegeler will become an increasingly isolated figure and he must be starting to wonder if he made a mistake in coming here. I still regard him as a very accomplished player who can offer a lot to the team and would see it as a significant loss and a waste if he were to move on. He is very unlucky in my view not to have been given more game time.

[Kingswoodactor]

11 hours ago, cityred exile said:

Really love to think that Jens " Rolls Royce " Hegeler  would come in for Marlon against the tractor boys ,  Reckon against Skusey would be the perfect match ,   However listening to L J In his press conference I think Josh  will slot in central ,   Personally I would play Brownhill wide right to start , and the bring on  Eliasson as a impact sub later in the match

Disagree. We need Brownhill's energy and ability to snap at people's heels in the middle of the park. If him and Smith are on song, then they will really disrupt Skuse's game, as Cole's legs are older now and he won't appreciate being pressed solidly throughout the game. 

[southside]

Plethora, word of the day, indeed the year

[Super]

12 hours ago, cityred exile said:

Really love to think that Jens " Rolls Royce " Hegeler  would come in for Marlon against the tractor boys ,  Reckon against Skusey would be the perfect match ,   However listening to L J In his press conference I think Josh  will slot in central ,   Personally I would play Brownhill wide right to start , and the bring on  Eliasson as a impact sub later in the match

Rolls Royce?

[Offside]

Hegeler is a quality player, but at the moment it is difficult to see where he can fit into the starting 11, especially with the high energy approach we've been trying to adopt. We have a plethora of central defenders and Pack, Smith and Brownhill are all in front of him in the pecking order in midfield.

[Major Isewater]

27 minutes ago, southside said:

Plethora, word of the day, indeed the year

I had a nasty plethora infection when I was younger .

Isewater's Anti Plethora Infection Cream put it right .

[Major Isewater]

10 minutes ago, Offside said:

Hegeler is a quality player, but at the moment it is difficult to see where he can fit into the starting 11, especially with the high energy approach we've been trying to adopt. We have a plethora of central defenders and Pack, Smith and Brownhill are all in front of him in the pecking order in midfield.

So true . 

I would , however , like to see Hegeler replacing or rotating with Pack .

 I see them as similar type players but believe that Hegeler has a bit more quality on the ball whereas Pack is more adept at the physical side of things .

It's equally true that I can't see JH running around like a demon like most of his younger team mates .

 I hope he gets the chance to shine here. 

[Edge1981]

It should be Brownhill starting and I think it will be Brownhill starting. JH is absolutely class but away from home I just think we need the energy of Brownhill. In fact, we need energy all over the pitch away from home. Ipswich are doing pretty well (could well be in a false position) and will be playing with a lot of confidence. I’m sure we need our fittest and most energetic starting 11 to keep in the game. 

[CliftonCliff]

4 minutes ago, Edge1981 said:

It should be Brownhill starting and I think it will be Brownhill starting. JH is absolutely class but away from home I just think we need the energy of Brownhill. In fact, we need energy all over the pitch away from home. Ipswich are doing pretty well (could well be in a false position) and will be playing with a lot of confidence. I’m sure we need our fittest and most energetic starting 11 to keep in the game. 

All good points and I broadly agree. I completely understand and accept the argument regarding pressing and tempo, and nobody could dispute the fact that Brownhill has been very good so far this season. And yes, JH is a different kind of player. My only question would be whether there is not sometimes room for both types within the same team: they can compliment each other to very good effect. (Think Bremner and Giles for the great Leeds side of the 70s, if you go back that far.)

[southside]

37 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

I had a nasty plethora infection when I was younger .

Isewater's Anti Plethora Infection Cream put it right .

I shall certaintly be shoe horning the word into polite conversation

[Edge1981]

40 minutes ago, CliftonCliff said:

All good points and I broadly agree. I completely understand and accept the argument regarding pressing and tempo, and nobody could dispute the fact that Brownhill has been very good so far this season. And yes, JH is a different kind of player. My only question would be whether there is not sometimes room for both types within the same team: they can compliment each other to very good effect. (Think Bremner and Giles for the great Leeds side of the 70s, if you go back that far.)

Unfortunately I don’t go back that far (I’m 36) but obviously have heard and read about them. I agree that they could complement each other (KS and JB). As great as Brownhill is, I would have Pack and Smith as the away pairing if Pack was available. I’m not to sure of who Ipswich have in the middle apart from Skuse so maybe Hegeler would be a great choice as Pack’s replacement...

[GrahamC]

We are doing well so this is understandably passing without too much comment.

My take on it is this:

We don't think he is mobile enough to play in midfield,

He got a go at the back early on when there was the uncertainty over Flint's future & Baker was suspended. Others became available, we lost a game, he got left out.

I really can't see him getting back in the side for any sustained period, I can't believe he is happy as a result and would not be surprised to see him go back home in January.

Good player, but so are those who are keeping him out...

[BCFC_Dan]

1 hour ago, CliftonCliff said:

There was a thread devoted to Hegeler earlier this week. It got hijacked at the end by some frivolous nonsense and fizzled out, which was a pity because it raised some interesting and important issues about his current standing in the squad. I was one of those who expressed admiration for Hegeler as a player and concern that we could end up losing a very good footballer through sheer lack of opportunity.

Unless he was injured on Tuesday (and there has been nothing to suggest that was the case), his omission from the squad is troubling. You wonder what is the current view held by the coaching team. Last season LJ was quoted at one point as saying they could see the side being built around him. At the start of the current campaign he was being touted as a cultured central defender who would fit with the aim to play constructive football from the back. Then he was benched, now he isn't even in the match day squad. 

I am aware of course that we have made a great start to the season and are blessed with options across both midfield and defence: it would be hard to argue for the omission of Pack, Brownhill, Smith, Flint, Wright or Baker to accommodate him, but there is a danger that Hegeler will become an increasingly isolated figure and he must be starting to wonder if he made a mistake in coming here. I still regard him as a very accomplished player who can offer a lot to the team and would see it as a significant loss and a waste if he were to move on. He is very unlucky in my view not to have been given more game time.

I've often wondered how we managed to get hold of such a quality player (assuming he is) and whether there might be one or two other factors that prevent him being a regular. I'm not going to speculate as to what those might be and I certainly have no knowledge, but you have to wonder what a player who has played in the Bundesliga saw in a club at the bottom end of the Championship.

It certainly seems to be the case that the pace of the Championship took him by surprise and he's had to adapt to it. If you're a manager choosing between a player who can play most games, or one who needs resting every other game, you'd incline towards the former. That said, Pack and Brownhill are rotating to an extent, so you'd think there'd be a few more opportunities for Jens.

It's also possible that he's not really all that good, or at least not well suited to the Championship. I've not seen him play so I can't comment on this. I know what I hoped we were getting but it stands to reason that not all German players are supremely intelligent and classy footballers. Some of them might be inferior to Marlon Pack. That would make him a poor signing, but these things do happen.

[CliftonCliff]

22 minutes ago, BCFC_Dan said:

I've often wondered how we managed to get hold of such a quality player (assuming he is) and whether there might be one or two other factors that prevent him being a regular. I'm not going to speculate as to what those might be and I certainly have no knowledge, but you have to wonder what a player who has played in the Bundesliga saw in a club at the bottom end of the Championship.

It certainly seems to be the case that the pace of the Championship took him by surprise and he's had to adapt to it. If you're a manager choosing between a player who can play most games, or one who needs resting every other game, you'd incline towards the former. That said, Pack and Brownhill are rotating to an extent, so you'd think there'd be a few more opportunities for Jens.

It's also possible that he's not really all that good, or at least not well suited to the Championship. I've not seen him play so I can't comment on this. I know what I hoped we were getting but it stands to reason that not all German players are supremely intelligent and classy footballers. Some of them might be inferior to Marlon Pack. That would make him a poor signing, but these things do happen.

All interesting and valid points. I also wondered at the time he signed why he chose to come here, but if there is some hidden baggage we've certainly seen no sign of it in terms of attitude, chronic lack of fitness or the like.

The issue of adjusting to the pace and physicality of this league applies to every player we've brought in from Europe (it has been mentioned repeatedly in relation to Diedhiou, for example), but whilst it's also true of Hegeler I would not say he's had more difficulty with the transition than anyone else. Even those of us who have seen him play have only a limited amount of evidence on which to make a judgment, but if anything I'd say he's looked more comfortable on the ball and less flustered than most. I wouldn't say he looks any more in need of frequent resting than others.

As to whether he's a good player or not, and how he rates in comparison to, say, Pack - well, as always it comes down to personal opinion, but he certainly looks a class act to me. I am not going to say anything detrimental about Pack, who is arguably the most improved player in the squad over the last couple of years, but Hegeler, though a somewhat different type, is definitely not his inferior. He (Hegeler) has a calm authority about him and always appears to have plenty of time on the ball, and that unhurried air has usually been an indication of a quality player in my experience.

I half-jokingly referred to Bremner and Giles. Though still going back quite a long way, a better and more relevant comparison might be Gary Shelton and David Rennie in Joe Jordan's promotion winning side. Totally contrasting styles, but tremendously effective in combination. An emphasis on tempo and energy doesn't necessarily have to exclude completely the possibility of playing someone of Hegeler's type, though sadly the signs seem to suggest we may never find out whether it would add something to the current team, rather than detract from it, which appears to be the more widely held view.

[Mr Popodopolous]

He's best in a midfield 3 IMO.

As a passing centre back vs deep lying teams, could well be a good option to open up the game a bit more, speed of ball circulation etc.

[BCFC_Dan]

16 minutes ago, CliftonCliff said:

I half-jokingly referred to Bremner and Giles. Though still going back quite a long way, a better and more relevant comparison might be Gary Shelton and David Rennie in Joe Jordan's promotion winning side. Totally contrasting styles, but tremendously effective in combination. An emphasis on tempo and energy doesn't necessarily have to exclude completely the possibility of playing someone of Hegeler's type, though sadly the signs seem to suggest we may never find out whether it would add something to the current team, rather than detract from it, which appears to be the more widely held view.

I'm only 36 so you may need to update your references a little

I do think that Johnson is turning the side from a direct, high energy, counter-attacking side into a more considerate possession-based one but he recognises that this cannot happen overnight. I imagine he's also very cautious about changing anything too dramatically after the troubles of last season. It's possible that Hegeler will start to feature more as the rest of the team settles better into this new way of playing. It's definitely important to have such a player to give the defenders options other than the long ball.

I hope that this is the case and that Hegeler will become a vital part of a team that calmly and intelligently passes the opposition to death. I also hope that he recognises that this won't be the case immediately and that the management have set his expectations correctly. If that's the case then he didn't ought to become too unhappy in the meantime.

[CliftonCliff]

21 minutes ago, BCFC_Dan said:

I'm only 36 so you may need to update your references a little

I do think that Johnson is turning the side from a direct, high energy, counter-attacking side into a more considerate possession-based one but he recognises that this cannot happen overnight. I imagine he's also very cautious about changing anything too dramatically after the troubles of last season. It's possible that Hegeler will start to feature more as the rest of the team settles better into this new way of playing. It's definitely important to have such a player to give the defenders options other than the long ball.

I hope that this is the case and that Hegeler will become a vital part of a team that calmly and intelligently passes the opposition to death. I also hope that he recognises that this won't be the case immediately and that the management have set his expectations correctly. If that's the case then he didn't ought to become too unhappy in the meantime.

Sorry for any implied, inverted ageism! Old gits like me are apt to forget that not everyone goes back so far.

For the record, the team I referred to was perhaps my favourite City side of all time, and I know a lot of older supporters share that view too, though Terry Cooper also fielded teams that played exhilarating attacking football that featured old-fashioned, orthodox, flying wingers on both flanks. It was a different era, of course, and the game has changed, but I would suggest the points relevant to central midfield remain essentially valid, and your own remarks above would tend to support that view. (There is, by the way, old footage of that 89-90 side knocking about somewhere if you ever get the chance to see it. Shelton was an all-action, irrepressible and tenacious midfielder who would chase and tackle anything that moved. His energy seemed boundless. Some fans at the time mocked Rennie - hence the "taxi for Rennie" jibes of the day - because by comparison he appeared slow and ponderous, but he had a languid ability to pass the ball seemingly effortlessly off either foot, and with great accuracy: a sort of poor man's Glenn Hoddle. He was a really, really good footballer and his detractors all went quiet when he left for Coventry, then in the PL, and deservedly played regularly for them at the higher level for some years.)

I hope you're right about LJ's long-term objectives. Developing a team is a delicate balancing act and you usually get precious little sympathy, understanding or time if it goes off-course for a while (though SL has had the sense to exercise patience). It simply is not possible to play constantly at a hundred miles an hour for 90 minutes over 46 league games a season, no matter how strong your squad. There are times when you need someone with the ability to put his foot on the ball, look up and slow the game down. Of all the very useful midfield players we currently have - and I rate all of them - Hegeler is the only one who looks to me to be capable of that. I may be over-estimating his skill: like everyone else I've only seen him play a handful of games, but he looks the real deal to me. We'll see - if we don't lose him before we realise his potential worth to the side. 

[EmersonsRed]

Jens Hegeler. Beautiful to watch. Doesn't fit how we play though. 

[Davefevs]

8 hours ago, CliftonCliff said:

Sorry for any implied, inverted ageism! Old gits like me are apt to forget that not everyone goes back so far.

For the record, the team I referred to was perhaps my favourite City side of all time, and I know a lot of older supporters share that view too, though Terry Cooper also fielded teams that played exhilarating attacking football that featured old-fashioned, orthodox, flying wingers on both flanks. It was a different era, of course, and the game has changed, but I would suggest the points relevant to central midfield remain essentially valid, and your own remarks above would tend to support that view. (There is, by the way, old footage of that 89-90 side knocking about somewhere if you ever get the chance to see it. Shelton was an all-action, irrepressible and tenacious midfielder who would chase and tackle anything that moved. His energy seemed boundless. Some fans at the time mocked Rennie - hence the "taxi for Rennie" jibes of the day - because by comparison he appeared slow and ponderous, but he had a languid ability to pass the ball seemingly effortlessly off either foot, and with great accuracy: a sort of poor man's Glenn Hoddle. He was a really, really good footballer and his detractors all went quiet when he left for Coventry, then in the PL, and deservedly played regularly for them at the higher level for some years.)

I hope you're right about LJ's long-term objectives. Developing a team is a delicate balancing act and you usually get precious little sympathy, understanding or time if it goes off-course for a while (though SL has had the sense to exercise patience). It simply is not possible to play constantly at a hundred miles an hour for 90 minutes over 46 league games a season, no matter how strong your squad. There are times when you need someone with the ability to put his foot on the ball, look up and slow the game down. Of all the very useful midfield players we currently have - and I rate all of them - Hegeler is the only one who looks to me to be capable of that. I may be over-estimating his skill: like everyone else I've only seen him play a handful of games, but he looks the real deal to me. We'll see - if we don't lose him before we realise his potential worth to the side. 

Very perceptive view of Rennie...vastly underrated.

Hegeler is a very good player at this level, there is just no Natural position for him in the way we are playing.

As above, fits a midfield three.  Fits a back three.

I still think he can play in a two, alongside any of Flint, Baker or Wright.  We suffered a little bit on a Tuesday because Bailey Wright isn’t a footballer RB...not suggesting he should play RB, just we missed quality on the ball from the back.  I do think at home, his ability to advance into midfield centrally is an asset, allowing two of Pack, Smith or Brownhill so split into pockets of space.

Can’t believe there won’t be interest both from his homeland, and this country in January.

[CliftonCliff]

10 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Very perceptive view of Rennie...vastly underrated.

Hegeler is a very good player at this level, there is just no Natural position for him in the way we are playing.

As above, fits a midfield three.  Fits a back three.

I still think he can play in a two, alongside any of Flint, Baker or Wright.  We suffered a little bit on a Tuesday because Bailey Wright isn’t a footballer RB...not suggesting he should play RB, just we missed quality on the ball from the back.  I do think at home, his ability to advance into midfield centrally is an asset, allowing two of Pack, Smith or Brownhill so split into pockets of space.

Can’t believe there won’t be interest both from his homeland, and this country in January.

If I'm not mistaken, Hegeler actually played his first game at RB, and made a decent job of it in the circumstances. Not that I'm suggesting him for that role now, but I hope at the very least that he's in the squad tomorrow, with Pack suspended. Yes, there will be interest, if he's surplus to requirements here, but I very much hope that it doesn't come to that.

[RedM]

7 minutes ago, CliftonCliff said:

If I'm not mistaken, Hegeler actually played his first game at RB, and made a decent job of it in the circumstances. Not that I'm suggesting him for that role now, but I hope at the very least that he's in the squad tomorrow, with Pack suspended. Yes, there will be interest, if he's surplus to requirements here, but I very much hope that it doesn't come to that.

I would think he would be on the bench as he can cover defence and midfield. He does slow the game down though I think which is what we have changed from,( last season with Tomlin, ) to a much quicker, high energy pass it around rather than hoof it up. Pack /Brownhill is the rotation for me. I do like Jens though and I'm sure at some stage he will play a part this season as our play evolves maybe to slower more accurate intermixed with pacy runs.

[ashton_fan]

Hegeler's made a major contribution to our League Cup run, he should be allowed to keep his place if we progress to the later stages

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, CliftonCliff said:

If I'm not mistaken, Hegeler actually played his first game at RB, and made a decent job of it in the circumstances. Not that I'm suggesting him for that role now, but I hope at the very least that he's in the squad tomorrow, with Pack suspended. Yes, there will be interest, if he's surplus to requirements here, but I very much hope that it doesn't come to that.

Right sided centre-back in a three

[CliftonCliff]

11 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Right sided centre-back in a three

So it was; I remember now. I stand corrected, thanks.

[The Bard]

I said to Harry during the first half on Tuesday that he would have helped at centre half.  They closed down options and were very defensive and we needed someone to carry the ball into midfield and start us playing from there.  If we get more teams doing this at the Gate, it should be considered more.  He was very good against Barnsley.

Would be good if he came in for Burton for example.

 

[Vincent Vega]

He doesn't do enough  , hardly ever affects the game . Neat and tidy but just a bit beige for me.