palmerred Posted October 20, 2017 Report Share Posted October 20, 2017 43 minutes ago, Davefevs said: I think a lot of the debate about agents is a negative one, e.g. they just take. In a lot of cases that’s true. But don’t you think the clubs would screw over the player if he went in unrepresented? The players need to be more savvy and take more responsibility when appointing agents and then the terms of that deal with that agent. Its also a very different discussion when talking about a Prem player’s agent and a player at League Two / National League Level. Unless they were a very promising young player out of a top academy, I doubt very few League Two / National League players have agents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted October 20, 2017 Report Share Posted October 20, 2017 6 minutes ago, palmerred said: Unless they were a very promising young player out of a top academy, I doubt very few League Two / National League players have agents. Might depend on their trajectory, e.g. if they had one while playeing higher and are now declining they might. In the Ben Smith book, he had one, not that he thought he did anything useful! Didn’t Gary Neville use the PFA to represent him? Why don’t more use them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
palmerred Posted October 20, 2017 Report Share Posted October 20, 2017 1 minute ago, Davefevs said: Might depend on their trajectory, e.g. if they had one while playeing higher and are now declining they might. In the Ben Smith book, he had one, not that he thought he did anything useful! Didn’t Gary Neville use the PFA to represent him? Why don’t more use them? Would be surprised. Part of the reason Jamie Vardy set up his academy, was because most of these players were not represented. Agents charge 10-20% of fees, they also charge you fees for using them and take that proportion of your wages, unless you are a decent player who needs 24/7 management, you don't need an agent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted October 20, 2017 Report Share Posted October 20, 2017 18 minutes ago, palmerred said: Would be surprised. Part of the reason Jamie Vardy set up his academy, was because most of these players were not represented. Agents charge 10-20% of fees, they also charge you fees for using them and take that proportion of your wages, unless you are a decent player who needs 24/7 management, you don't need an agent. Yeah, agree. Funnily enough, I’ve got one (not for football ). He will get my business a better day rate than I can negotiate on its behalf with the end client and sorts out a few other things too. It is different though, because Client pays him, and he pays my business. I’ve no idea how much he gets, and don’t really care too much, as long as i’m Happy with the rate we’ve agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanterne Rouge Posted October 20, 2017 Report Share Posted October 20, 2017 I`ve never understood why the club ends up paying fees to the agent. Surely as the agent is employed by the player he is the one that should pay him. If, for instance, Adele is booked to play Wembley presumably her agent would negotiate with the venue to get the best deal for his/her client and she would then pay him from her fee. Surely Wembley wouldn`t be paying the agent too would they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
palmerred Posted October 20, 2017 Report Share Posted October 20, 2017 16 minutes ago, Red Right Hand said: I`ve never understood why the club ends up paying fees to the agent. Surely as the agent is employed by the player he is the one that should pay him. If, for instance, Adele is booked to play Wembley presumably her agent would negotiate with the venue to get the best deal for his/her client and she would then pay him from her fee. Surely Wembley wouldn`t be paying the agent too would they? Wembley approach Adele's agent/manager stating they would like to have her perform, her agent hypothetically says £1m a night. Wembley confirm they will pay it. Agent says that includes his 10% fee, so Wembley pay £1.1m a night. Adele herself gets 900K a night. 200K is agent fee. It's much like an auctioneer fee, in that the buyer and seller both pay commission. I know of an agent who had a high profile player who Arsenal wanted to sign, but as did 3 other clubs, his point of sale to all clubs was to say, this is what such and such is offering and this is the fee they will pay me to make it happen, can you do better. It wont always be the best deal for the player that is signed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanterne Rouge Posted October 20, 2017 Report Share Posted October 20, 2017 1 hour ago, palmerred said: Wembley approach Adele's agent/manager stating they would like to have her perform, her agent hypothetically says £1m a night. Wembley confirm they will pay it. Agent says that includes his 10% fee, so Wembley pay £1.1m a night. Adele herself gets 900K a night. 200K is agent fee. It's much like an auctioneer fee, in that the buyer and seller both pay commission. I know of an agent who had a high profile player who Arsenal wanted to sign, but as did 3 other clubs, his point of sale to all clubs was to say, this is what such and such is offering and this is the fee they will pay me to make it happen, can you do better. It wont always be the best deal for the player that is signed. All sounds supremely fishy to me and shouldn`t be allowed IMO. The agent should be duty bound to get the best deal for his client. Would the client be able to take legal action if he signed for, say, Arsenal because they would give the agent a bigger cut but he could have signed for Spurs on a better package for him? I employ an accountant and I expect her to get me the best deal with HMRC and I pay her for that - if I found out she wasn`t doing that because of some sort of personal interest I`m sure she would be in trouble with her professional body and disciplined accordingly. She certainly wouldn`t work for me again. Tail wagging the dog it seems to me and leaves a lot open to `brown envelope` business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
palmerred Posted October 20, 2017 Report Share Posted October 20, 2017 4 minutes ago, Red Right Hand said: All sounds supremely fishy to me and shouldn`t be allowed IMO. The agent should be duty bound to get the best deal for his client. Would the client be able to take legal action if he signed for, say, Arsenal because they would give the agent a bigger cut but he could have signed for Spurs on a better package for him? I employ an accountant and I expect her to get me the best deal with HMRC and I pay her for that - if I found out she wasn`t doing that because of some sort of personal interest I`m sure she would be in trouble with her professional body and disciplined accordingly. She certainly wouldn`t work for me again. Tail wagging the dog it seems to me and leaves a lot open to `brown envelope` business. Depends how you view it. Okay lets take for example the deal with Chelsea and Tammy. This summer he was set to sign for Newcastle but went to Swansea as Swansea agreed to pay a £1m loan fee. This was probably agent orientated, in telling Chelsea, that Swansea are interested and would be willing to pay a £1m fee, and he can get this deal done, but will cost Chelsea 100K, He goes back and tells Swansea deal is agreed, providing they pay £1.1m, of which 100K is his fee. The agreement suits both clubs. Don't forget some agents are friendly with managers and for some form of arrangement will help them with certain players on their books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted October 20, 2017 Report Share Posted October 20, 2017 2 hours ago, Red Right Hand said: I`ve never understood why the club ends up paying fees to the agent. Surely as the agent is employed by the player he is the one that should pay him. If, for instance, Adele is booked to play Wembley presumably her agent would negotiate with the venue to get the best deal for his/her client and she would then pay him from her fee. Surely Wembley wouldn`t be paying the agent too would they? I always think of the example of me selling my house through an estate agent. I pay MY agent for acting on my behalf and selling MY house. I don't expect or ask the purchaser to pay the fees of MY representative. An agent acts for a player and in my view the only payments the agent should be getting should be from his player. Back to my house sale example, a solicitor will not act for both vendor and purchaser because of conflict of interest, and the same in divorce proceedings. Obviously agents aren't subject to any sort of regulation and I suspect that as long as they are getting paid enough they don't feel their is any conflict of interest whatsoever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted October 20, 2017 Report Share Posted October 20, 2017 20 minutes ago, Red Right Hand said: All sounds supremely fishy to me and shouldn`t be allowed IMO. The agent should be duty bound to get the best deal for his client. Would the client be able to take legal action if he signed for, say, Arsenal because they would give the agent a bigger cut but he could have signed for Spurs on a better package for him? I employ an accountant and I expect her to get me the best deal with HMRC and I pay her for that - if I found out she wasn`t doing that because of some sort of personal interest I`m sure she would be in trouble with her professional body and disciplined accordingly. She certainly wouldn`t work for me again. Tail wagging the dog it seems to me and leaves a lot open to `brown envelope` business. There must be a lot of money in brown envelopes . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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