AppyDAZE Posted October 23, 2017 Report Share Posted October 23, 2017 Always been a defender of Marlon, but he absolutely must UP his game, if you ask me. His last game and a half have been absolute shockers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donkeeebles Posted October 23, 2017 Report Share Posted October 23, 2017 I keep thinking back to Derby away last season where Heggler and Brownhill were outstanding in centre mid. I believe Heggler has the ability, I'm just not sure about the mobility for the championship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlrightMeBabber Posted October 23, 2017 Report Share Posted October 23, 2017 1 hour ago, Nogbad the Bad said: Having an unreliable defensive partner in Hegeler, and attempting to cover for the on the day inadequacies of others, certainly affected Flint against Leeds. All the same his personal performance, though not up with his very best, was far better than Hegeler or Wright imo. Wright we can excuse to an extent as he was playing out of his best and most comfortable position, but even so LJ had trusted him to play there above other potential right backs. Hegeler was found to be out of his depth in a relatively untried position as a CB in a pairing, although, again LJ seemed to believe him more worthy of a start than the likes of Magnússon. More than one player was left exposed by LJ's team selection imo., and their frailty naturally affected the performances of the whole team. I wouldn't say Hegeler was unreliable, he was solid at CB alongside Wright when we played Barnsley and was very good against Stoke. Flint had a bad game, I don't think you can say that's down to another player. Yes Wright we can excuse but he was caught out of position, which for me is a basic no matter where your natural position is. Wasn't like we were playing him left wing. I wouldn't say LJ's team selection cost us the game, Wright and Flint have played together for weeks on end in those positions and were at fault for the first 2 goals, that killed us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DANWRENBCFC4LIFE Posted October 23, 2017 Report Share Posted October 23, 2017 Said the same to my brother yesterday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redfieldred Posted October 23, 2017 Report Share Posted October 23, 2017 5 hours ago, Tomarse said: Because Lee would have to play Hondour at centre half and clearly hell would have to freeze over before that happens. No he doesn't, wright can play centre back and vyner (who has improved) rb. I would play Bryan flint wright vyner. put brownhill on the right drop leko to the bench. Hegeler and pack holding. Famara for Woodrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YorkshireSection Posted October 23, 2017 Report Share Posted October 23, 2017 Anyone but Pack, Smiths absence just highlights our lack of depth in midfield. We need higher quality back up than Pack if we are to push on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SStandUp Posted October 23, 2017 Report Share Posted October 23, 2017 6 hours ago, Londoner said: Cannot understand their issue with Hörður. Because he's not very good? Doesnt like the ball at his feet and doesn't win headers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Top Robin Posted October 23, 2017 Report Share Posted October 23, 2017 42 minutes ago, YorkshireSection said: Anyone but Pack, Smiths absence just highlights our lack of depth in midfield. We need higher quality back up than Pack if we are to push on. Two months to go mate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Top Robin Posted October 23, 2017 Report Share Posted October 23, 2017 20 minutes ago, ForeverRes said: Because he's not very good? Doesnt like the ball at his feet and doesn't win headers. So that leaves his hands......stick the bugger in goal! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted October 23, 2017 Report Share Posted October 23, 2017 2 hours ago, JonDolman said: Knackered playing centre back and people want him in midfield!? Really can't see what he will bring. Players were running past him last season like he wasn't there. No energy or workrate. It takes a few matches to get up to match fitness . I don't know why I'm defending him , only that I prefer that players are given a fair crack of the whip before being judged. This applies to Woodrow as well . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Top Robin Posted October 23, 2017 Report Share Posted October 23, 2017 6 hours ago, Londoner said: Obviously this will surprise a few people after his performance Saturday but for me hegeler needs to be starting.....in midfield. Watching over the highlights it's clear that our best chances came from him (exception of fammy header). Bobby Reid chance came from Hegeler breaking forward and then his own chance which was saved. This guy, along with Brownhill, is our most creative outlet in cm....far more than both Smith and pack. People assume he is a sitting cm who breaks up play, he isn't, he is far more than that. I remember sheff we'd at home last season, playing in cm first 60 minutes he ran the game and yes one poor ball got punished but I feel his composure his ability to create from deep and breaking forward is exactly what we need. I cannot understand why the management seen so reluctant to play him in his best position, which is midfield. He will getgoals....when he has played in midfield he has got in excellent positions just unable to finish....that game when he beat 2 players rounded the keeper before having a shot cleared off the line being an example. He didn't play champions league football for np reason. If I was manager, with Korey unfit, I would play hegeler and brownhill in cm and give him a run....made a good impact when he joined and he is TOO GOOD to be wastes on the bench off cb. Despite a handful of good performances at cb I maintain that isn't his best position, there are 4 better. He breaks up play, he tackles, he gets forward and offers creativity, he gets into goal scoring positions.....for me he has more to his game than pack or Smith.....yet doesn't get the same opportunities. GIVE HIM A RUN IN HIS BEST POSITION....CENTRE MIDFIELD!!! I totally agree with you mate. The Palarse game (not being as vital as league game imo) is perfect for him to get a proper chance in his best position. He may have a cracking game and make us all a bit more relaxed about the lack of quality and depth in CM Surely we'll know after 30 mins play if he's cutting it and if not, all change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeAman08 Posted October 23, 2017 Report Share Posted October 23, 2017 5 hours ago, Super said: So try him in yet another position?! Not settled anywhere else. Tbf he has played multiple positions through his entire career. Possibly never mastered a position and why he finds himself at city. Anyway with Woodrow and Leko cup tied and Taylor possibly out why not? Bobby needs rest and after him you get to Garita if Milan isn’t ready to start. I am not saying definitely do it but think he could be classy there as he has in other positions at times. That’s assuming a Flint and Mags at CB and Brownhill and Pack in midfield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted October 23, 2017 Report Share Posted October 23, 2017 7 hours ago, AlrightMeBabber said: Personally, I don't think Hegeler had a terrible game on Saturday. There were others in the team who played far worse and seem to be protected by the fans.. (Flint, Wright) He didn’t have a great game, but no worse than Flint imho. On reflection (from Saturday’s opinion , I think Wright was decent enough....he tried to get tight, but let down by others around him. 4 hours ago, Nogbad the Bad said: Having an unreliable defensive partner in Hegeler, and attempting to cover for the on the day inadequacies of others, certainly affected Flint against Leeds. All the same his personal performance, though not up with his very best, was far better than Hegeler or Wright imo. Wright we can excuse to an extent as he was playing out of his best and most comfortable position, but even so LJ had trusted him to play there above other potential right backs. Hegeler was found to be out of his depth in a relatively untried position as a CB in a pairing, although, again LJ seemed to believe him more worthy of a start than the likes of Magnússon. More than one player was left exposed by LJ's team selection imo., and their frailty naturally affected the performances of the whole team. That’s just too easy to blame Hegeler for Flint’s under-par performance. Does that make you question his leadership skills if he can’t help his central defensive partner and can only be left to concentrate on his own game. It tells me his important Baker is to do the organising back there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leadman Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 hegeler was better than flint on Saturday, and hegeler was poor, leeds just better than us on the day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havanatopia Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 13 hours ago, ForeverRes said: Because he's not very good? Doesnt like the ball at his feet and doesn't win headers. Fair number of duffers it seems LJ has bought. A few you will get wrong but if all the remarks about these players are to be believed and time out of the side tends to back that up then there are too many. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phileas Fogg Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 16 minutes ago, havanatopia said: Fair number of duffers it seems LJ has bought. A few you will get wrong but if all the remarks about these players are to be believed and time out of the side tends to back that up then there are too many. Not sure that’s fair really - I’d say the only ones who’ve been poor transfers have been Giefer (loan), Matthews (loan), O’Neil (no fee - but poor value for money considering his wages x injuries) Ekstrand (free but poor injury record) and possibly Engvall (Ashton wasn’t that positive about him on Twentyman). Hegeler was a low fee and is a good player - wouldn’t describe him as a ‘duffer’ just yet though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redfieldred Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 13 hours ago, Top Robin said: Two months to go mate 14 hours ago, YorkshireSection said: Anyone but Pack, Smiths absence just highlights our lack of depth in midfield. We need higher quality back up than Pack if we are to push on. You must have only been to the Leeds match to say this. Pack has been giving solid 7 performances in our good run since march last season. He was excellent against Huddersfield, keeping Mooy very quiet indeed. Second only to flint v Brighton and was better than smith in the early games this season. It's only recently that you could say smith has looked better than him. So on the whole your statement is fantastically unfair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliftonCliff Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 2 minutes ago, redfieldred said: You must have only been to the Leeds match to say this. Pack has been giving solid 7 performances in our good run since march last season. He was excellent against Huddersfield, keeping Mooy very quiet indeed. Second only to flint v Brighton and was better than smith in the early games this season. It's only recently that you could say smith has looked better than him. So on the whole your statement is fantastically unfair. I agree entirely. Pack seems to be a player who divides opinion. I thought he'd finally won most people over when he started to be described, quite rightly, as arguably the most improved player in the squad over the last year or so, but it still only takes an off day or bad result for his critics to resurface. It's possibly true that his form has dipped slightly, but frankly nobody covered themselves in glory on Saturday and it was only a couple of weeks ago that there was a consensus here that it was hard to choose any two from three out of Pack, Smith and Brownhill. (And in that context, it's interesting to note that Smith, who was at one time perhaps the most admired player on OTIB, was also starting to get stick - until we got badly beaten with him out of the side. A case of not appreciating what you've got til it's gone?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redfieldred Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 20 minutes ago, CliftonCliff said: I agree entirely. Pack seems to be a player who divides opinion. I thought he'd finally won most people over when he started to be described, quite rightly, as arguably the most improved player in the squad over the last year or so, but it still only takes an off day or bad result for his critics to resurface. It's possibly true that his form has dipped slightly, but frankly nobody covered themselves in glory on Saturday and it was only a couple of weeks ago that there was a consensus here that it was hard to choose any two from three out of Pack, Smith and Brownhill. (And in that context, it's interesting to note that Smith, who was at one time perhaps the most admired player on OTIB, was also starting to get stick - until we got badly beaten with him out of the side. A case of not appreciating what you've got til it's gone?) The other problem is people judge players as individuals rather than members of a team. Smith always seems to play better alongside pack and vice versa. That could be for a number of reasons, but I think it is because they cover for each other, so they both feel able to go forward positively. Whatever brownhill's qualities, his defensive instincts and ability to close down are not as good as either pack or smith. He looked our best player going forward on Saturday, but he was slow to get back early bit of the game and we looked very open to the counter. Once you are 0-2 down. Obviously attacking becomes more important so players like pack are seen as negative when they play safety first, which he has to do as he is the only holding mid. Admittedly he was poor especially second half, getting closed down and losing possession, but I thought first half he did ok, especially as he was repeatedly having his shirt virtually torn of his back by the Leeds players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 1 hour ago, CliftonCliff said: I agree entirely. Pack seems to be a player who divides opinion. I thought he'd finally won most people over when he started to be described, quite rightly, as arguably the most improved player in the squad over the last year or so, but it still only takes an off day or bad result for his critics to resurface. It's possibly true that his form has dipped slightly, but frankly nobody covered themselves in glory on Saturday and it was only a couple of weeks ago that there was a consensus here that it was hard to choose any two from three out of Pack, Smith and Brownhill. (And in that context, it's interesting to note that Smith, who was at one time perhaps the most admired player on OTIB, was also starting to get stick - until we got badly beaten with him out of the side. A case of not appreciating what you've got til it's gone?) One big , big criticism I have of Pack is his shooting. I know he's not a forward but he should be able to hit the target from 25 yards ( by target I don't mean row Z or the corner flag ) His long range passing is good so it is a mystery as to why he can't trouble the opposition keeper . He should work on it if he wants to progress his career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 22 hours ago, AlrightMeBabber said: Personally, I don't think Hegeler had a terrible game on Saturday. There were others in the team who played far worse and seem to be protected by the fans.. (Flint, Wright) So losing his man for the first, falling over and allowing a free shot to be taken on the second goal and then failing to make any kind of jump when the corner came in for the third is not a terrible game, eh? Glad Johnson doesn't share your Stevie Wonder view of the defence's responsibilities and subbed him on Saturday. We could really have done with some new forward momentum, but Lee had seen enough and I'm pretty certain we'll never see Hegeler play central defence again. That said, IF Korey is still unfit, and I understood it was just a slight twinge rather than a full-on hamstring tear, then I don't dislike the OP's proposition. Often it's better after you've had a poor game to get right back into the fray and prove yourself, rather than sit on the sidelines and brood about it. Plus we need someone CM. Brownhill doesn't offer much back there and we missed him bring able to get forward as often as he normally does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlrightMeBabber Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 4 hours ago, Red-Robbo said: So losing his man for the first, falling over and allowing a free shot to be taken on the second goal and then failing to make any kind of jump when the corner came in for the third is not a terrible game, eh? Glad Johnson doesn't share your Stevie Wonder view of the defence's responsibilities and subbed him on Saturday. We could really have done with some new forward momentum, but Lee had seen enough and I'm pretty certain we'll never see Hegeler play central defence again. That said, IF Korey is still unfit, and I understood it was just a slight twinge rather than a full-on hamstring tear, then I don't dislike the OP's proposition. Often it's better after you've had a poor game to get right back into the fray and prove yourself, rather than sit on the sidelines and brood about it. Plus we need someone CM. Brownhill doesn't offer much back there and we missed him bring able to get forward as often as he normally does. First goal - He didn't lose his man, Flint has tried to clear the ball it's deflected back towards our goal, he's followed the runner to the ball who then laid it off to Alonso to score (Bailey Wrights man), can't see any wrong doing here by Hegs. Second goal - Through ball was played through the middle a good few yards away from Hegeler, Flint has slid in to clear it, the ball got caught between Bryans legs and then a poor clearance by fielding has passed it straight to Alonsos feet (who ran straight past Marlon Pack who then just watched him slot it home). Could argue that Hegeler could've stuck a leg out but he didn't slip over it's Flint on the floor. Third goal - Nobody was marking the area where Lasogga is stood, the only players to run and make a challenge for the corner were Hegeler and BROWNHILL. Do your homework mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnr1986 Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 Hegeler has to start....... hope he doesn’t! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC RISK77 Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 On 23/10/2017 at 12:58, Super said: Didnt he play CM against Fulham last season and gave one of the worst i have seen? This and I agree was one of the worst I have seen. He needs too much time on the ball and I am sorry you don't get that in the championship Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redfieldred Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 Pack was good after the equaliser tonight. 7 performance overall. Solid defensively and good first time passes and link up play. Time to lay off him people although for some reason some never will Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redfieldred Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 4 hours ago, MC RISK77 said: This and I agree was one of the worst I have seen. He needs too much time on the ball and I am sorry you don't get that in the championship Hegeler also played centre back in the only other loss this season at Brum, and was definitely at fault for their second goal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 8 hours ago, AlrightMeBabber said: First goal - He didn't lose his man, Flint has tried to clear the ball it's deflected back towards our goal, he's followed the runner to the ball who then laid it off to Alonso to score (Bailey Wrights man), can't see any wrong doing here by Hegs. Second goal - Through ball was played through the middle a good few yards away from Hegeler, Flint has slid in to clear it, the ball got caught between Bryans legs and then a poor clearance by fielding has passed it straight to Alonsos feet (who ran straight past Marlon Pack who then just watched him slot it home). Could argue that Hegeler could've stuck a leg out but he didn't slip over it's Flint on the floor. Third goal - Nobody was marking the area where Lasogga is stood, the only players to run and make a challenge for the corner were Hegeler and BROWNHILL. Do your homework mate. **** off. I was there. But end of the day, he wasn't missed was he. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nest Egg Posted October 25, 2017 Report Share Posted October 25, 2017 3 hours ago, Red-Robbo said: **** off. I was there. But end of the day, he wasn't missed was he. People here still think Hegeler is a mix of Beckenbauer and Maldini. Don't even bother opening the can of worms, trust me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlrightMeBabber Posted October 26, 2017 Report Share Posted October 26, 2017 On 25/10/2017 at 00:24, Red-Robbo said: **** off. I was there. But end of the day, he wasn't missed was he. So was I mate... rewatch the highlights if you think i'm wrong. I know i'm not. No he wasn't missed, Flint and Wright both had a solid game, much better than the shower of sh*te the produced against Leeds. Onwards and upwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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