BobBobSuperBob Posted November 17, 2017 Report Share Posted November 17, 2017 See Coleman had no ‘rules’ with the Wales players and ‘trusted them’ Be interesting to see if he does this at Sunderland !! Be interesting to see how he works or not Admire him in a lot of ways - could have cruised along with Wales or expected an easier challenge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazred Posted November 18, 2017 Report Share Posted November 18, 2017 I'm sure he was talking about wanting to manage in the Champions League a few days ago? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havanatopia Posted November 18, 2017 Report Share Posted November 18, 2017 6 hours ago, EmersonsRed said: What an awful appointment. No idea how they stay up under him. They won't. 3 hours ago, reddogkev said: I have absolutely no idea why Coleman would want that job! They'll still be relegated, and then that is his reputation in tatters. They will be and it won't be; nobody expects him to keep them up except the Sunderland board who continue to make awful decisions but they are in some sort of Wearside bubble; when you leave it life returns to normal and you buy yourself a new Paul Smith suit, new Rangey and walk into West Ham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC RISK77 Posted November 18, 2017 Report Share Posted November 18, 2017 8 hours ago, Silvio Dante said: I suspect Coleman knows that Wales' run to the semi finals of Euro 16 was a fluke, carried by one man. That's evidenced by them failing to escape or even finish second in a group which was unchallenging at world level. His stock can only go down from here. With that in mind, it's interesting to see that his stock is only as high as a basket case of a club. Prepared to be wrong, but seems that can only end badly... A Fluke? Really....I cannot see how any team getting to the semi final of a major international tournament can be deemed lucky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B1ackbird Posted November 18, 2017 Report Share Posted November 18, 2017 Dunno, an International keeper going to sleep and letting a 40+ yard free kick beat him is fairly lucky... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted November 18, 2017 Report Share Posted November 18, 2017 7 hours ago, reddogkev said: I have absolutely no idea why Coleman would want that job! They'll still be relegated, and then that is his reputation in tatters. Seven hundred and fifty thousand reasons a year perhaps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tipps69 Posted November 18, 2017 Report Share Posted November 18, 2017 I think a large part of what happens next at Sunderland will depend on the owners, they gave Grayson very little money to spend, has Coleman gone there on the proviso that he’s going to have a war chest to spend? And even if Coleman does get a load to spend, who in their right mind would join a club in such a position? How many of Coleman’s ‘Welsh’ lot would he be able to entice to the bottom of The Championship? Adam Matthews might be alright but apart from that, who? It just seems like a very strange appointment all ways round, no evidence of money to spend, little evidence of Coleman being able to do any better than Grayson. My guess is that the next 6 months will single out how Sunderland’s & Coleman’s future’s will be but I’m not holding out a lot of hope for either!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvio Dante Posted November 18, 2017 Report Share Posted November 18, 2017 2 hours ago, MC RISK77 said: A Fluke? Really....I cannot see how any team getting to the semi final of a major international tournament can be deemed lucky Greece 2004? South Korea 2002? Thats just off the top of my head. Those teams showed no signs of repeating the feat and nor did Wales. Without Bale, as the qualifiers proved, they're more than ordinary and Coleman doesn't have the tactical nouse to change that. Better to leave a hero and take the cash from Sunderland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedM Posted November 18, 2017 Report Share Posted November 18, 2017 I spoke to several people when I was up in Sunderland for our game and they all believed Grayson had only another two games, the first of which was ours. After that they all said their owner wanted to get either an ex player of theirs (cant remember who) or current player coming to the end of his playing days. They were convinced this was going to happen even though neither had experience. Perhaps Coleman will cultivate this way of thinking ? They will be quite surprised about this I think, although it's a 'name' for them. My impression was that they though Grayson wasn't a big enough name, he had success but after having some of the managers they have had in the past he wasn't impressive. They were great fans, lovely people, but totally unrealistic to the postistion they are in and who they could attract I thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elhombrecito Posted November 18, 2017 Report Share Posted November 18, 2017 9 hours ago, Bar BS3 said: People saying that Coleman has done a great job for Wales, reminds me of the myth that DC is doing a great job at Rovers. Getting a country the size of Wales to the semi finals of a European Championships is objectively "doing a great job", not sure how you could argue otherwise. That being said, I don't think he'll do well at Sunderland and I've no idea why he'd even consider the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChippenhamRed Posted November 18, 2017 Report Share Posted November 18, 2017 44 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said: Greece 2004? South Korea 2002? Thats just off the top of my head. Those teams showed no signs of repeating the feat and nor did Wales. Without Bale, as the qualifiers proved, they're more than ordinary and Coleman doesn't have the tactical nouse to change that. Better to leave a hero and take the cash from Sunderland. They finished 3rd in a group of six having lost once in 10 matches. Largely achieved without their best player as you point out. By population, Wales was the smallest country in that group. A far from disgraceful performance - which appeared more disappointing because of their exceptional performance at the Euros. Coleman did a great job with Wales and I don't know why it seems so hard for people to acknowledge that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChippenhamRed Posted November 18, 2017 Report Share Posted November 18, 2017 10 hours ago, Bar BS3 said: People saying that Coleman has done a great job for Wales, reminds me of the myth that DC is doing a great job at Rovers. One star player had been the main stay of their success, now neither have either of those to rely on! Coleman got a country of 3 million people to a Euros semi final, beating Belgium twice along the way. Which part of that is a "myth" exactly? And let's not pretend that DC didn't achieve consecutive promotions with Rovers, which is an impressive achievement even if it did come off the back of a relegation (which wasn't entirely his fault). They're in a better position now than they were when he joined. That's not a myth either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted November 18, 2017 Report Share Posted November 18, 2017 11 hours ago, ChippenhamRed said: Surprised by the harsh assessment of Coleman on here. Getting Wales to a semi-final was a massive achievement and I don't agree it was solely down to Bale. They looked far more of a cohesive team than England did despite our superior individuals. While we were losing to Iceland they were beating Belgium - who they also beat in the qualifiers. Their World Cup qualification campaign was a failure, but a narrow failure and hardly a disgrace. Sure, his club record is no great shakes but would it kill people to give the guy a bit of credit? They had all the luck going in the Euros, beating a Russia side that gave up because they were virtually out, were totally outplayed by Slovakia before the Belgium game, where the British media always conveniently fail to mention that Belgium were missing 3 of their usual back four. Coleman is a mediocre manager who has bluffed it on the back of a World class player in Bale & a very good one in Ramsey, plus an aggressive policy of stealing English born players, as Ireland did in the 80s/90s. More convinced they'll go down now than if Grayson was given more time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royz Posted November 18, 2017 Report Share Posted November 18, 2017 Giggs is favorite for Wales job, I wonder if he will have a calf strain before every friendly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChippenhamRed Posted November 18, 2017 Report Share Posted November 18, 2017 57 minutes ago, GrahamC said: They had all the luck going in the Euros, beating a Russia side that gave up because they were virtually out, were totally outplayed by Slovakia before the Belgium game, where the British media always conveniently fail to mention that Belgium were missing 3 of their usual back four. Coleman is a mediocre manager who has bluffed it on the back of a World class player in Bale & a very good one in Ramsey, plus an aggressive policy of stealing English born players, as Ireland did in the 80s/90s. More convinced they'll go down now than if Grayson was given more time. Still a very harsh assessment. Luck alone doesn't qualify a team and get them to a semi final. Everyone talks fondly about England's team in Euro 96 but they won 2 matches out of 5 and had a bit of luck themselves. The previous generation had a world class player in Giggs as well as some half-decent ones like Bellamy and Speed. They achieved nothing. Coleman deserves credit for what he has done with that team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Posted November 18, 2017 Report Share Posted November 18, 2017 Whilst it's acknowledged that Sunderland are indeed a basket-case, I'm still surprised to see how poorly they are doing. Any team with Billy Jones, Paddy McNair, Lee Cattermole, Duncan Watmore, Callum McManaman, Aiden McGeady & Lewis Grabban in it you'd think is a pretty good starting point for a Championship team. Throw in Jack Rodwell, Bryan Oviedo, John O'Shea, Darron Gibson, Brendon Galloway and you seemingly have a squad, that whilst it has some who are a bit past it, should still be good enough at this level. From the outside looking in, you'd think it wouldn't take much to get that group of players performing well enough to avoid relegation, but clearly there is something putrid within that club that is holding that back. Whether Coleman is capable of forging the necessary siege mentality they'll need remains to be seen, but that's what it will take - mentality. I'd imagine there are a few too many 'soft' characters that'll need a stern lesson or two in resilience. From Coleman's previous managerial posts I would liken this to when he took over Coventry. A club in decline but still with a decent enough squad of players to compete at this level. He failed to turn around that decline there, so he's got a lot to prove with Sunderland I'd say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bar BS3 Posted November 18, 2017 Report Share Posted November 18, 2017 2 hours ago, El Hombrecito said: Getting a country the size of Wales to the semi finals of a European Championships is objectively "doing a great job", not sure how you could argue otherwise. That being said, I don't think he'll do well at Sunderland and I've no idea why he'd even consider the job. Getting Wales to the Semi’s was outstanding, indeed! They have now reverted to type and will be doing their usual thing during the summer of a major tournament. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nogbad the Bad Posted November 18, 2017 Report Share Posted November 18, 2017 Have never rated Coleman and a bit of success at international level is quite different to successfully managing a league club. If he turns Sunderland round significantly I may need to revise my view, but I really doubt that will happen. Grayson is a much better manager imo., and was a far better bet to revitalise Sunderland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bar BS3 Posted November 18, 2017 Report Share Posted November 18, 2017 1 hour ago, ChippenhamRed said: Coleman got a country of 3 million people to a Euros semi final, beating Belgium twice along the way. Which part of that is a "myth" exactly? And let's not pretend that DC didn't achieve consecutive promotions with Rovers, which is an impressive achievement even if it did come off the back of a relegation (which wasn't entirely his fault). They're in a better position now than they were when he joined. That's not a myth either. I didn’t say that Coleman’s achievement of reaching the Semi’s was a myth. Big credit for that. Largely down to GB. Since then they have reverted to type and failed. Again. DC has indeed achieved 2 promotions, but at what level..? Don’t get me wrong, he’s done ok and any success does still have to be achieved, but getting a team up from non league (where they actually were a big club, for once) by the skin of their teeth and then the following promotion from L2 was massively down to the goals of MT. Since he left them, their form has not been anything “great”. My post actually said that both managers achievements were heavily down to the contribution of one player in each team. Coleman now won’t have Bale to carry him and DC no longer has Taylor’s goals. DC deserves credit for getting Rovers back to where they probably belong, but they are under performing at that level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted November 18, 2017 Report Share Posted November 18, 2017 22 minutes ago, Harry said: Whilst it's acknowledged that Sunderland are indeed a basket-case, I'm still surprised to see how poorly they are doing. From the outside looking in, you'd think it wouldn't take much to get that group of players performing well enough to avoid relegation, but clearly there is something putrid within that club that is holding that back. Leaving Coleman to one side think this is the crux of the matter, mate. Saw an article recently which said for a number of prominent managers, (it definitely mentioned Martin O'Neill & Steve Bruce amongst others), Sunderland was the only failure on their CV. You can now add Simon Grayson to that list. It has to be the club and what goes on there as much as the manager, therefore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexukhc Posted November 18, 2017 Report Share Posted November 18, 2017 Watch Pulis go to Wales Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One Team In Keynsham Posted November 18, 2017 Report Share Posted November 18, 2017 24 minutes ago, alexukhc said: Watch Pulis go to Wales Surely someone from the Moyes-Allardyce-Robson-Redknapp Axis of Incompetence is still available? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bar BS3 Posted November 18, 2017 Report Share Posted November 18, 2017 1 hour ago, One Team In Keynsham said: Surely someone from the Moyes-Allardyce-Robson-Redknapp Axis of Incompetence is still available? Could Redknapp send the whole of Wales into financial trouble..?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted November 18, 2017 Report Share Posted November 18, 2017 He has got to be mental. Sunderland players have looked pretty much disinterested for nigh on 10 years now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie BCFC Posted November 18, 2017 Report Share Posted November 18, 2017 19 hours ago, The Bard said: There were 24 teams at the Euros out of 52 European sides.basically a 1 in 2 chance of qualifying. For the world cup 13 sides out of 52 qualified. 1 in 4. He didn't manage this and didn't really get close. Given he had one world class player plus a couple of excellent ones, I think that is disappointing. O'Neill's achievements have been far more impressive. That Wales team was a championship team at best plus Bale and Ramsey. To make the semi finals with that squad is an exceptional achievement. There is no way you would’ve called them getting to the semis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie BCFC Posted November 18, 2017 Report Share Posted November 18, 2017 2 hours ago, Bar BS3 said: Could Redknapp send the whole of Wales into financial trouble..?! I wonder if he still thinks Flint wasn’t worth the money... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedM Posted November 18, 2017 Report Share Posted November 18, 2017 2 hours ago, Flint says No said: I wonder if he still thinks Flint wasn’t worth the money... He might end up wishing he was Welsh though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanterne Rouge Posted November 18, 2017 Report Share Posted November 18, 2017 12 minutes ago, Keyardiv said: Really, I would say Ramsey and Allen were our best players at the Euros. Even with Bale, you still have to defend. In qualifying we conceded 4 goals in 10 games. Belgium managed 1 goal against us in 3 games and that was a worldie. He's obviously a key player but I don't think you can call ita fluke when we won 4 games at the tournament. I think it showed how bang average most international teams are, including us. Serious question; are you generally happy Coleman`s left or would you rather he had stayed on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted November 18, 2017 Report Share Posted November 18, 2017 Not sure I’ve ever seen worse goalkeeping from both keepers with all four goals a complete joke from a goalkeeping perspective http://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/11132766/sunderland-2-2-millwall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanterne Rouge Posted November 18, 2017 Report Share Posted November 18, 2017 5 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said: Not sure I’ve ever seen worse goalkeeping from both keepers with all four goals a complete joke from a goalkeeping perspective http://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/11132766/sunderland-2-2-millwall And people moan about Frankie! I heard on Sky they were awful mistakes but didn`t realise how awful! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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