Liam Walsh - Now confirmed signed (merged)

[Tipps69]

2 minutes ago, palmerred said:

Tipps69 it doesn’t really matter if clubs are interested, or promising big wages and so on, unless they meet a clubs valuation they won’t get a chance to even speak to said player. Flint is deffo on more than 10k a week though. 

So you’d happily keep unhappy players here then? Football has changed now, agents allow whoever need to know what they want to know, like our rumoured interest in Hugill, any interested club will notify a players agent what they are willing to pay the player, that’s them already in the players head, it happens all the time. It happened with Flint & it was only because Redknapp was so unrealistic with his valuation that Flint is still here!

Any number of clubs could offer better financial terms than what we are currently paying, that’s no secret, the difference now is that our players are proving how good they are. It’s similar to what we’ve recently been doing or trying to do with Preston & Barnsley, cherry pick their better players because we know we can offer better wages without it costing us the world because the players will become unhappy if they are unable to move, we have moved up a level without paying the players the financial rewards for doing so although it seems like we are trying to sort that out with the new contracts being accepted by Fielding & Brownhill, that sends out a message to any potential suitors that they are happy & it’s fairly pointless in making a move for them. That isn’t the case in Bryan, Flint, Smith or Paterson’s case.

[Tipps69]

4 minutes ago, Red Right Hand said:

Do players still have clauses in their contracts that allow them to speak to premier league clubs if any enquire? It used to be quite common I think.

I would expect it’s fee related, we’ll allow you to speak to any club if they bid £5m etc. Or even verbal agreements, if a Premier League club comes in, we’ll let you speak to them etc.

The trouble is now, agents play such a huge part in players lives & proving ‘tapping up’ is hard because you have to have the proof & it’s unlikely a player is going to drop his own agent in it, that is why some clubs & managers only like working with certain agents, it’s ones that are a little more trustworthy (if you can call an agent that).

[palmerred]

19 minutes ago, Tipps69 said:

So you’d happily keep unhappy players here then? Football has changed now, agents allow whoever need to know what they want to know, like our rumoured interest in Hugill, any interested club will notify a players agent what they are willing to pay the player, that’s them already in the players head, it happens all the time. It happened with Flint & it was only because Redknapp was so unrealistic with his valuation that Flint is still here!

Any number of clubs could offer better financial terms than what we are currently paying, that’s no secret, the difference now is that our players are proving how good they are. It’s similar to what we’ve recently been doing or trying to do with Preston & Barnsley, cherry pick their better players because we know we can offer better wages without it costing us the world because the players will become unhappy if they are unable to move, we have moved up a level without paying the players the financial rewards for doing so although it seems like we are trying to sort that out with the new contracts being accepted by Fielding & Brownhill, that sends out a message to any potential suitors that they are happy & it’s fairly pointless in making a move for them. That isn’t the case in Bryan, Flint, Smith or Paterson’s case.

What makes you think any player is unhappy?

They are in the semi finals of a league cup, they are vying for automatic promotion to the countries elite league, they are being praised in the press and media constantly! Their profile is going from strength to strength.

All that has come from playing in this Bristol City squad, there won’t be a single unhappy player at the club, even a fringe player will be delighted to be here right now.

Flint never wanted to leave, his agent was trying to get a deal, the club let in unfold, but still had a realistic valuation on him, Aden’s attitude has been fantastic, he never wanted to go.

We don’t need to offer players contracts with 2.5 years left on a deal, most of the signed new deals last year, and should we get promoted their wage will increase as a result and they will get massive bonuses.

Clubs only get to talk to players when a club allows, otherwise it’s tapping up. So Brighton or Everton May come along and say to Joe Bryan’s agent, we want Joe and we’ll give him 30k a week, but it’s immaterial unless they pay the 25-30m the club want. 

Did you see Bryan on Wednesday, the lad was close to crying his eyes out. Much like I was an many fans, really emotional and bouncing and crying with joy. Not in a million years does Joe want to leave this club right now. 

[palmerred]

13 minutes ago, Red Right Hand said:

Do players still have clauses in their contracts that allow them to speak to premier league clubs if any enquire? It used to be quite common I think.

No, it’s classed as tapping up. A club can approach a club or an agent, but until permission is granted by a club, no club can officially talk to a player, and if a club are found to be pressuring an agent for details or to pass messages to a player, they can be fined massively or even placed under a transfer embargo. 

[palmerred]

5 minutes ago, Tipps69 said:

I would expect it’s fee related, we’ll allow you to speak to any club if they bid £5m etc. Or even verbal agreements, if a Premier League club comes in, we’ll let you speak to them etc.

The trouble is now, agents play such a huge part in players lives & proving ‘tapping up’ is hard because you have to have the proof & it’s unlikely a player is going to drop his own agent in it, that is why some clubs & managers only like working with certain agents, it’s ones that are a little more trustworthy (if you can call an agent that).

Wrong again. All agents phone records have to be passed on to the FA on request and they have to keep a conversation log, details of a call, ie who was a club ringing about, failure to do so can see you deemed an unfit person by the FA and Removed from the agents register. Tapping up seldom happens, but if a agent wants to get his player a big move, he will let clubs know this player is available at the right price or said player is interested in a bug move, but if a club was constantly badgering an agent without official contact with a club, they would get found out. 

[palmerred]

14 minutes ago, Tipps69 said:

So you’d happily keep unhappy players here then? Football has changed now, agents allow whoever need to know what they want to know, like our rumoured interest in Hugill, any interested club will notify a players agent what they are willing to pay the player, that’s them already in the players head, it happens all the time. It happened with Flint & it was only because Redknapp was so unrealistic with his valuation that Flint is still here!

Any number of clubs could offer better financial terms than what we are currently paying, that’s no secret, the difference now is that our players are proving how good they are. It’s similar to what we’ve recently been doing or trying to do with Preston & Barnsley, cherry pick their better players because we know we can offer better wages without it costing us the world because the players will become unhappy if they are unable to move, we have moved up a level without paying the players the financial rewards for doing so although it seems like we are trying to sort that out with the new contracts being accepted by Fielding & Brownhill, that sends out a message to any potential suitors that they are happy & it’s fairly pointless in making a move for them. That isn’t the case in Bryan, Flint, Smith or Paterson’s case.

Also I doubt very much we have any interest in Hugill. As someone who lives very close to Preston and knows a few guys there, we’ve not scouted him once this season and we’ve made no approach to the club about him.

a member of the press read into a string a tweets between Jordan and Bailey after Bailey qualified for the World Cup and put 2and 2 together  and got 20. Jordan and Bailey were roomies at Preston and very good mates, and Jordan at times looked after Baileys dogs before they came south when Bailey got his own place down here. 

There is a chance Jordan’s agent wants to engineer him a move and is planting that in the media, but the club turned down 10m in the summer off Wolves and are not keen to sell and he is under a long contract. 

Given none of our scouting team have been going to watch him play., I doubt it’s anything but paper talk. 

[Tipps69]

21 minutes ago, palmerred said:

What makes you think any player is unhappy?

They are in the semi finals of a league cup, they are vying for automatic promotion to the countries elite league, they are being praised in the press and media constantly! Their profile is going from strength to strength.

All that has come from playing in this Bristol City squad, there won’t be a single unhappy player at the club, even a fringe player will be delighted to be here right now.

Flint never wanted to leave, his agent was trying to get a deal, the club let in unfold, but still had a realistic valuation on him, Aden’s attitude has been fantastic, he never wanted to go.

We don’t need to offer players contracts with 2.5 years left on a deal, most of the signed new deals last year, and should we get promoted their wage will increase as a result and they will get massive bonuses.

Clubs only get to talk to players when a club allows, otherwise it’s tapping up. So Brighton or Everton May come along and say to Joe Bryan’s agent, we want Joe and we’ll give him 30k a week, but it’s immaterial unless they pay the 25-30m the club want. 

Did you see Bryan on Wednesday, the lad was close to crying his eyes out. Much like I was an many fans, really emotional and bouncing and crying with joy. Not in a million years does Joe want to leave this club right now. 

Flint admitted himself that his head was turned, LJ admitted that Flint was distracted by the rumours of him moving & that was why he was selected for the first month or so & no club got as far as officially talking to Flint or his agent but it happens. We are talking vast sums of money here.

Players may not be ‘unhappy’ so to speak right now but that also doesn’t mean that their ‘happy’ right now, especially when they know they can earn more money at an interested club.

There isn’t a hope in hell we are going to expect £25m-£30m for Bryan, someone who has only played as high as The Championship & who many believed last season that he wasn’t good enough at this level & IF we think he’s worth anywhere near those ridiculous fees then he’ll be wanting way more than his current wage here & my point is that other clubs will be aware just how little Bristol City players are on compared to other clubs in the same division & will know they can disrupt the players by making it known what they can earn elsewhere. We are not big payers, Flint won’t be on much more than £10k p/w (if he is at all), he came into professional football late & at Swindon, we didn’t pay a massive fee for him & part of that attraction would be knowing that we can attract him by offering him slightly higher wages, he signed a long term contract extension 18 months ago or so, while we were still a fairly new, struggling Championship club, at no point has there been an opportunity for him to dictate that he would push the top end of our rumoured wage cap (£15k p/w or so) so yes I’d be very surprised if he’s being paid much more than £10k p/w currently & that would be why the rumoured offer of £20k p/w from Birmingham did unsettle him because if it was for an extra £3k p/w or so, it would hardly be worth it.

The players that came up with us from League One or that have been here from the academy won’t be our higher earners, I’m sure of that.

[Tipps69]

37 minutes ago, palmerred said:

Wrong again. All agents phone records have to be passed on to the FA on request and they have to keep a conversation log, details of a call, ie who was a club ringing about, failure to do so can see you deemed an unfit person by the FA and Removed from the agents register. Tapping up seldom happens, but if a agent wants to get his player a big move, he will let clubs know this player is available at the right price or said player is interested in a bug move, but if a club was constantly badgering an agent without official contact with a club, they would get found out. 

So agents don’t meet their clients in person or falsify their documents? Like people do with their tax returns etc? Do you really think agents are honest? They are probably one of the most underhand bunch of people around, if it means there is money in it for them, they will find a way around it, I can assure you.

[Tipps69]

36 minutes ago, palmerred said:

Also I doubt very much we have any interest in Hugill. As someone who lives very close to Preston and knows a few guys there, we’ve not scouted him once this season and we’ve made no approach to the club about him.

a member of the press read into a string a tweets between Jordan and Bailey after Bailey qualified for the World Cup and put 2and 2 together  and got 20. Jordan and Bailey were roomies at Preston and very good mates, and Jordan at times looked after Baileys dogs before they came south when Bailey got his own place down here. 

There is a chance Jordan’s agent wants to engineer him a move and is planting that in the media, but the club turned down 10m in the summer off Wolves and are not keen to sell and he is under a long contract. 

Given none of our scouting team have been going to watch him play., I doubt it’s anything but paper talk. 

I hope what you’re saying is correct as I don’t particularly want us to sign him & definitely not at the fees that are rumoured to be doing the rounds but there’s another example of a player becoming unsettled because of hearing what he could potentially earn elsewhere!

One of the regular Preston fans on here has said that he had handed in a transfer request during the summer because Reading were prepared to offer him £20k p/w after having an £8m bid rejected! Preston have offered him new contracts but he’s refused them as he wants to leave & that same person has said in the Hugill thread that Preston are aware of our interest in him & seems to have some inside knowledge at Preston.

Players become unsettled, especially when they know they can earn so much more money elsewhere, agents are trying to earn extra money for themselves however they can & will ‘stir the pot’ however they can.

[palmerred]

20 minutes ago, Tipps69 said:

Flint admitted himself that his head was turned, LJ admitted that Flint was distracted by the rumours of him moving & that was why he was selected for the first month or so & no club got as far as officially talking to Flint or his agent but it happens. We are talking vast sums of money here.

Players may not be ‘unhappy’ so to speak right now but that also doesn’t mean that their ‘happy’ right now, especially when they know they can earn more money at an interested club.

There isn’t a hope in hell we are going to expect £25m-£30m for Bryan, someone who has only played as high as The Championship & who many believed last season that he wasn’t good enough at this level & IF we think he’s worth anywhere near those ridiculous fees then he’ll be wanting way more than his current wage here & my point is that other clubs will be aware just how little Bristol City players are on compared to other clubs in the same division & will know they can disrupt the players by making it known what they can earn elsewhere. We are not big payers, Flint won’t be on much more than £10k p/w (if he is at all), he came into professional football late & at Swindon, we didn’t pay a massive fee for him & part of that attraction would be knowing that we can attract him by offering him slightly higher wages, he signed a long term contract extension 18 months ago or so, while we were still a fairly new, struggling Championship club, at no point has there been an opportunity for him to dictate that he would push the top end of our rumoured wage cap (£15k p/w or so) so yes I’d be very surprised if he’s being paid much more than £10k p/w currently & that would be why the rumoured offer of £20k p/w from Birmingham did unsettle him because if it was for an extra £3k p/w or so, it would hardly be worth it.

The players that came up with us from League One or that have been here from the academy won’t be our higher earners, I’m sure of that.

Flint is on about 12k with bonuses, whether you believe that or not I don’t really care. But someone I go to games with is good mates with him. He was on about 8k and he wanted a new deal when we brought in a few new players on bigger money but yes he is on more than 10k a week. 

[palmerred]

18 minutes ago, Tipps69 said:

So agents don’t meet their clients in person or falsify their documents? Like people do with their tax returns etc? Do you really think agents are honest? They are probably one of the most underhand bunch of people around, if it means there is money in it for them, they will find a way around it, I can assure you.

That is your opinion, but I just go from the rules of the FA. I would be surprised if many were acting as you suggest. One or two maybe but most are actually salary agents for very large companies who own their agents, these agents are on salary and commission but it’s the company who make the money from it, so it’s not as underhand as you may believe it is. 

[palmerred]

10 minutes ago, Tipps69 said:

I hope what you’re saying is correct as I don’t particularly want us to sign him & definitely not at the fees that are rumoured to be doing the rounds but there’s another example of a player becoming unsettled because of hearing what he could potentially earn elsewhere!

One of the regular Preston fans on here has said that he had handed in a transfer request during the summer because Reading were prepared to offer him £20k p/w after having an £8m bid rejected! Preston have offered him new contracts but he’s refused them as he wants to leave & that same person has said in the Hugill thread that Preston are aware of our interest in him & seems to have some inside knowledge at Preston.

Players become unsettled, especially when they know they can earn so much more money elsewhere, agents are trying to earn extra money for themselves however they can & will ‘stir the pot’ however they can.

Preston fans are going of what Nixon has written which has no truth in it whatsoever. I’m not gonna name names, but one of my neighbours works for Preston, we have not made any approach neither have we scouted him, that is fact. 

He handed in a request in the summer as he wanted the opportunity to go to a bigger club, Preston refused to sell him and rejected his transfer request. He still has 4 years on his contract and they have not tried to get him to sign a new deal. He signed a 5 year contract last season but now wants to go to a bigger club for big money, the club own him for the next 4 seasons and at present are happy to reject any advances. 

[palmerred]

28 minutes ago, Tipps69 said:

 

There isn’t a hope in hell we are going to expect £25m-£30m for Bryan, someone who has only played as high as The Championship & who many believed last season that he wasn’t good enough at this level & IF we think he’s worth anywhere near those ridiculous fees then he’ll be wanting way more than his current wage here & my point is that other clubs will be aware just how little Bristol City players are on compared to other clubs in the same division & will know they can disrupt the players by making it known what they can earn elsewhere. 

We definitely will want that sort of money for Joe. He is young, our best player and being raved by top premier league managers and a lot of big figures in the press, there are calls in the media for him to get international call up and our manager has labelled him Champions League class.

He would be on a good wage, and I am sure the club would happily negotiate a new contract to make him one of our top earners.

He is a local lad, who supports the club and wants to succeed here and is very happy and our best player by a mile.

He is regarded by many as one of the best players in this league and many feel he would walk into a premier league team. 

The club will definitely want big big money to consider selling him.

If  Kodjia was worth £15m, for a young future international, billed by the manager as Champions League class, the bids would have to start at 20+ to remotely generate any selling interest. 

[Tipps69]

4 minutes ago, palmerred said:

Flint is on about 12k with bonuses, whether you believe that or not I don’t really care. But someone I go to games with is good mates with him. He was on about 8k and he wanted a new deal when we brought in a few new players on bigger money but yes he is on more than 10k a week. 

And as I said, won’t be on much more than £10k p/w (if at all), so going off your figure of £12k p/w, Birmingham were rumoured to be offering him an extra £8k p/w, that’s an extra 2/3rd’s a week, it’s a huge increase & will of meant he’s potentially lost about £150k in basic wages!! In just 4 months!! I’d certainly be interested in a job where I could earn that as an extra % of my basic wage.

 

8 minutes ago, palmerred said:

That is your opinion, but I just go from the rules of the FA. I would be surprised if many were acting as you suggest. One or two maybe but most are actually salary agents for very large companies who own their agents, these agents are on salary and commission but it’s the company who make the money from it, so it’s not as underhand as you may believe it is. 

But you’ve said yourself that Hugill’s rumoured interest is probably from his agent trying to get him a better deal, so how’s his agent able to do that unless he’s just randomly making things up, which you’ve credited them with the fact that they have to prove everything.

 

1 minute ago, palmerred said:

We definitely will want that sort of money for Joe. He is young, our best player and being raved by top premier league managers and a lot of big figures in the press, there are calls in the media for him to get international call up and our manager has labelled him Champions League class.

He would be on a good wage, and I am sure the club would happily negotiate a new contract to make him one of our top earners.

He is a local lad, who supports the club and wants to succeed here and is very happy and our best player by a mile.

He is regarded by many as one of the best players in this league and many feel he would walk into a premier league team. 

The club will definitely want big big money to consider selling him.

If  Kodjia was worth £15m, for a young future international, billed by the manager as Champions League class, the bids would have to start at 20+ to remotely generate any selling interest. 

What press have been linking Bryan with an international call-up? Because I’m sure someone would of plastered a link all over here if that was the case or there would be numerous threads stating it & I haven’t seen any.

Bryan is now 24, no longer what would be classed as young & as I said before, he’s never played above Championship level & has no international recognition.

Where as Ryan Sessegnon is only 17, has school boy & youth international recognition & has also only played as high as Championship level, we’d be lucky to get half the figure you’re quoting imo.

Bryan wouldn’t get in as top half Premier League left-back / left midfielder, I couldn’t name any Premier League team apart from maybe Huddersfield or Brighton where Bryan may get in the team & neither of them are ever going to pay the figures you are quoting.

And you seriously believe that we will be after those figures & Bryan is aware of that then he must be expecting over £50k p/w for being valued at that price! Sorry but your values are highly unrealistic.

[JoeAman08]

Honestly not worried about players leaving in January. I don’t think the players are daft enough to try and force a move in January either. Everyone will be committed to getting Bristol City promoted. The fees we will ask for players who have never played in the premier league will put everyone off. 

Everyone knows that they can move clubs in the summer if we do not go up. I imagine it is why Bobby Reid hasn’t signed a new deal yet. See where we are in June and talk about things then. Players come to this club knowing they will not be leaving for cheap as well. Flint may have said he was effected but I am sure he knew 4m was not a fee that would get him a move. 

[palmerred]

6 minutes ago, Tipps69 said:

And as I said, won’t be on much more than £10k p/w (if at all), so going off your figure of £12k p/w, Birmingham were rumoured to be offering him an extra £8k p/w, that’s an extra 2/3rd’s a week, it’s a huge increase & will of meant he’s potentially lost about £150k in basic wages!! In just 4 months!! I’d certainly be interested in a job where I could earn that as an extra % of my basic wage.

 

But you’ve said yourself that Hugill’s rumoured interest is probably from his agent trying to get him a better deal, so how’s his agent able to do that unless he’s just randomly making things up, which you’ve credited them with the fact that they have to prove everything.

 

What press have been linking Bryan with an international call-up? Because I’m sure someone would of plastered a link all over here if that was the case or there would be numerous threads stating it & I haven’t seen any.

Bryan is now 24, no longer what would be classed as young & as I said before, he’s never played above Championship level & has no international recognition.

Where as Ryan Sessegnon is only 17, has school boy & youth international recognition & has also only played as high as Championship level, we’d be lucky to get half the figure you’re quoting imo.

Bryan wouldn’t get in as top half Premier League left-back / left midfielder, I couldn’t name any Premier League team apart from maybe Huddersfield or Brighton where Bryan may get in the team & neither of them are ever going to pay the figures you are quoting.

And you seriously believe that we will be after those figures & Bryan is aware of that then he must be expecting over £50k p/w for being valued at that price! Sorry but your values are highly unrealistic.

50k a week ???? He’s on about 10k a week at present, not all players are money orientated you know. Daily Mail last week, Peter Crouch also said, Phil Neville said and Lee Johnson has urged Scotland to call him up as England haven’t yet.

Everton, Arsenal, Man Utd, and Burnley are all interested in Bryan. 

Sessegnon is about to join Man Utd for £25m, with a loan return for 6 months, plus Fulham getting another 20 minion when he has played 50 games for Man Utd , yes the lad has potential, but that’s big big money. 

No laws In agents trying to put players names about in press to engineer a move, very different of a club to approach players. 

Yes Flint May have liked 8k a week more, but he has a contract to honour. 

[Tipps69]

2 minutes ago, palmerred said:

50k a week ???? He’s on about 10k a week at present, not all players are money orientated you know. Daily Mail last week, Peter Crouch also said, Phil Neville said and Lee Johnson has urged Scotland to call him up as England haven’t yet.

Everton, Arsenal, Man Utd, and Burnley are all interested in Bryan. 

Sessegnon is about to join Man Utd for £25m, with a loan return for 6 months, plus Fulham getting another 20 minion when he has played 50 games for Man Utd , yes the lad has potential, but that’s big big money. 

No laws In agents trying to put players names about in press to engineer a move, very different of a club to approach players. 

Yes Flint May have liked 8k a week more, but he has a contract to honour. 

So a player who is ‘supposedly’ worth £25m-£30m although he has never played any higher than Championship level & who is ‘supposedly’ being touted for international honours & ‘supposedly’ being chased by two of the biggest clubs in Europe is happy to stay here on considerably less than anyone else of that ‘supposed’ value!! 

And yes, you’re right, not everyone is money orientated but Bryan isn’t stupid but if you’re claiming he’s willing to stay here on considerably less than he’s ‘supposedly’ worth, he’d have to be mentally insane to give up those ‘supposed’ figures!!

As for Everton & Burnley being interested as well, Burnley are never going to pay your figures for anyone, anytime soon & Everton? Allardyce will have an international experienced full-back lined up for that position, not a player who has never played at that level.

As for Scotland, so Bryan is going to get ahead of Kieron Tierney & Andrew Robertson? I highly doubt it & Scotland probably won’t look Bryan’s way again seeing as he turned them down a few years ago.

Sorry but none of this seems plausible imo but for £25m-£30m I’d drive him wherever were willing to pay that for him because that would be the best bit of transfer business we have ever done.

Imo it’s about as likely as it was Ro*ers getting £10m for Matty Taylor!!

[palmerred]

7 hours ago, Tipps69 said:

So a player who is ‘supposedly’ worth £25m-£30m although he has never played any higher than Championship level & who is ‘supposedly’ being touted for international honours & ‘supposedly’ being chased by two of the biggest clubs in Europe is happy to stay here on considerably less than anyone else of that ‘supposed’ value!! 

Where have I said he is worth that, I have said it would take a bid of that amount to make the club consider selling him. His value won’t deteriorate by the summer, so we can easily turn down 10-15m in January knowing we would still get that in the summer for him, but should the club get offered silly money they might sell, but it would take silly money for us to consider selling him. Of course he is happy here, you only had to see his face on Wednesday night to see that.

And yes, you’re right, not everyone is money orientated but Bryan isn’t stupid but if you’re claiming he’s willing to stay here on considerably less than he’s ‘supposedly’ worth, he’d have to be mentally insane to give up those ‘supposed’ figures!!

A move will come in good time for Joe, he is not stupid to know that. He’ll either be playing Premier League football for us next season or someone else, the club will be well aware of that. He’s contracted for 2.5 years and he was happy to sign that deal, just because he is a far better player now doesn’t mean he immediately should be rewarded with a huge contract or we should sell him to the first Premier League side who show an interest. This isn’t Football Manager where players toys come out the roam week in week out when a paper links them or praises them.

As for Everton & Burnley being interested as well, Burnley are never going to pay your figures for anyone, anytime soon & Everton? Allardyce will have an international experienced full-back lined up for that position, not a player who has never played at that level.

It would appear you don’t rate Bryan highly by your comments, however a lot of Premier League teams do and so does a lot of press and media. By your reckoning Ranieri should have never signed Vardy, good job he did hey! 

As for Scotland, so Bryan is going to get ahead of Kieron Tierney & Andrew Robertson? I highly doubt it & Scotland probably won’t look Bryan’s way again seeing as he turned them down a few years ago.

Scotland wouldn’t hold a grudge, he wanted to try and play for England , if that’s not possible and he accepts Scotland is his best offer, then they wouldn’t turn down a class player because before he was exploring other options.

 

Sorry but none of this seems plausible imo but for £25m-£30m I’d drive him wherever were willing to pay that for him because that would be the best bit of transfer business we have ever done.

Imo it’s about as likely as it was Ro*ers getting £10m for Matty Taylor!!

Yes it would be good business and we would sell for that which is what I’ve said ! We won’t however sell for 10-15m with 2.5 years on his contract,  desire to get to the top flight and his stock constantly rising! It would take a huge bid for us to consider selling our best player. Rovers may have never got 10m but had Matty Not had a clause in his contract they would have got 2-3m for him. If we sold Matty tomorrow we wouldn’t struggle to get a buyer at £2.5m. 

 

[ScottishRed]

£2.5m for Matty Taylor? Was that the joke in your cracker yesterday?

[Pickle Rick]

Johnson already admitted that England have been watching Bryan.

He won’t go in Jan unless it’s silly money, like £20M+. We don’t need to sell our best players.

Serious question - is there a better English LB than Bryan at the moment?

[Tipps69]

2 hours ago, palmerred said:

 

Right, I’ll try to reply to all points made........

By you mentioning that figure / price & saying it will take a bid of £25m-£30m, I took it was a figure that you had plucked from thin air because the club certainly haven’t named their price for what it would take for us to sell him.

You mention that this isn’t Football Manager yet you quote highly unrealistic figures (imo) for a player who has never played above Championship level & on your Football Manager quote, you seem to be the one thinking that people would be happy to give up many thousands of pounds a week to do a similar job elsewhere by staying here, while I love Bristol City, if I was a player & I was made aware that I could earn an extra £8k p/w (going off your figures for Flint’s current wage) then my head would certainly be turned & I would be hoping that after a few months of playing even better & proving my worth even more, that I would get rewarded financially & more in line with what I could earn at other clubs in a similar position to my current employer, as I’ve said earlier in the thread, going off your figures, Flint has given up £144,000 so far this season, again, this isn’t Football Manager & this is real money to a 28 year-old who could have around only 5 years left of his playing career! I’m pretty sure he won’t want to go back to tarmacking once his career has finished so he can take care of himself & any family he may have in the future! These figures our players could easily earn elsewhere are real money figures & it’s mind boggling sums & while we are doing great & the players are being praised for their performances, let’s not forget that this is football & things can change very quickly, you only have to look at how things went sour for us last season after such a good start & that was with largely the same squad of players!!

Not sure how you’ve come to the conclusion that I don’t rate Bryan very highly, I was one of very few people that were still backing him (and others) last season during our ‘bad run’ but I’m also realistic enough to realise that players can & will get better financial deals elsewhere. If a Premier League club comes in & offers £10m-£15m for him, he will undoubtedly be interested in a move & what do you think is the going rate for a £15m valued player, £35k p/w? Yet your figures suggest he’s on £10k p/w & would be happy to give up around £25k p/w to stay here! Our cup run will possibly be over by the 22nd of January (or so), so there’s still a week or so for any player to move on. Having got Fielding & Brownhill to commit to new contracts is great news because they are obviously happy with the financial package they are now getting & I would suggest that in Brownhill’s case especially, the new contract had been offered in the hope of putting off any potential suitors from making an offer because what’s the point approaching someone who has signed a new contract only a few weeks ago (when the January window opens). If you truly believe that contracts are worthwhile on the whole then I’d suggest that maybe a little naive, just as an example both Ryan Fredricks & Steve Coppell I’m assuming signed contracts with us, only to leave within a matter of days, a contract is good enough to enable a club to get a fee for any player in contract but it doesn’t stop any player from moving & while we’re on the subject of contracts & seeing as you clearly know so much about our players contracts, I would suggest there’s a strong possibility that some of our players have clauses inserted in their contracts allowing them to speak to other clubs should a club from a higher division come in for them or if a club offers a specified fee for them that they would at the very least be allowed to speak to those clubs. It may of been done on the back of their being little chance of something like that happening but now we’re in a position where those clauses could be activated & this is another reason why our core players should be tied down to new contracts, to possibly remove such clauses.

Now onto Bryan & Scotland, why would he now (having turned them down some years ago) decide that he’s willing to give them a try, when you state yourself that he’s in the form of his life (or of similar ilk), did he really turn them down all those years ago because he thought he’d play for England (while City were in League One)?

What us, as football fans see as a real value for a player is one thing but we don’t know all the in’s out’s of contracts & what’s been agreed between players & managers & chairmen / owners.

Things can change very quickly in football.

[Tipps69]

3 minutes ago, Captain Hindsight said:

Johnson already admitted that England have been watching Bryan.

He won’t go in Jan unless it’s silly money, like £20M+. We don’t need to sell our best players.

But if we value him at that price then surely he’s entitled to believe that he’s entitled to a wage that matches that value?

If your boss told you you were great & that you were indispensable, would you not think great, I’ll be in for a pay rise here to match my value to the company (if you happened to be in that line of work) & while others are moving for large fee’s & getting pay rises, Bryan is still here on £10k p/w (apparently).

My point being in all of this is if we truly value these players so highly then give them a wage closer to that value & send out a message to any interested clubs that they’ve just signed a new contract & it’s pointless making an approach for those players that we supposedly value so highly, I mean, it’s not like we are a club struggling financially & can’t afford to pay these players what they deserve so let’s stop the possibility of clubs making offers for our prized assets & show them that we are serious in progressing as a club.

[palmerred]

39 minutes ago, Tipps69 said:

Right, I’ll try to reply to all points made........

By you mentioning that figure / price & saying it will take a bid of £25m-£30m, I took it was a figure that you had plucked from thin air because the club certainly haven’t named their price for what it would take for us to sell him.

You mention that this isn’t Football Manager yet you quote highly unrealistic figures (imo) for a player who has never played above Championship level & on your Football Manager quote, you seem to be the one thinking that people would be happy to give up many thousands of pounds a week to do a similar job elsewhere by staying here, while I love Bristol City, if I was a player & I was made aware that I could earn an extra £8k p/w (going off your figures for Flint’s current wage) then my head would certainly be turned & I would be hoping that after a few months of playing even better & proving my worth even more, that I would get rewarded financially & more in line with what I could earn at other clubs in a similar position to my current employer, as I’ve said earlier in the thread, going off your figures, Flint has given up £144,000 so far this season, again, this isn’t Football Manager & this is real money to a 28 year-old who could have around only 5 years left of his playing career! I’m pretty sure he won’t want to go back to tarmacking once his career has finished so he can take care of himself & any family he may have in the future! These figures our players could easily earn elsewhere are real money figures & it’s mind boggling sums & while we are doing great & the players are being praised for their performances, let’s not forget that this is football & things can change very quickly, you only have to look at how things went sour for us last season after such a good start & that was with largely the same squad of players!!

Right this is the one thing I really want to pick up on. £25m is not a big fee for a Premier League player, especially one being watched by the International committee and one who has recently been bigged up in the media and press and touted as a future star. 24 is still young, he has 10-12 years left in him and won't reach his peak for 4-5 years yet. 

You keep going on about the money angle but your argument is pointless, when a club gives you a contract you accept the terms and sign it. It works both ways, if you become a star, chances are your next contract will be big or someone from a bigger company may wish to buy you, but unless the person who holds your contract is willing to let you move on there is nothing you can do. That's like saying when Gary O'Neill signed on 15-20K a week, because he hasn't played and been injured we should be allowed to pay him 2K a week and he shouldn't get what's in his contract. Joe Bryan signed a 2 year extension last season and 2.5 years on his current deal. He is not missing out on any money and can't view that he should be at a different club getting x amount a week. The reality is when it comes to his next deal he is in the power seats with us, if we don't think we can justify those demands, rather than let him go for free, we would sell him before his contract runs out. No club is gonna give someone a new contract, then 3-4 months later offer them another new one on more money, If clubs done that they would go out of business. 

If Aden Flint wanted out in the summer, he could have requested a transfer but he didn't. Had he done that he would have forgone his right for a percentage of sale, and future wages. He didn't so clearly he wasn't seeing pound signs.

39 minutes ago, Tipps69 said:

 

Now onto Bryan & Scotland, why would he now (having turned them down some years ago) decide that he’s willing to give them a try, when you state yourself that he’s in the form of his life (or of similar ilk), did he really turn them down all those years ago because he thought he’d play for England (while City were in League One)?

I don't think there is a player in football who wouldn't want to play International Football. Scotland may not have been his first choice, but if he doesn't think he'll ever play for England, he wouldn't turn down Scotland now he was older. 

 

[palmerred]

48 minutes ago, Tipps69 said:

But if we value him at that price then surely he’s entitled to believe that he’s entitled to a wage that matches that value?

If your boss told you you were great & that you were indispensable, would you not think great, I’ll be in for a pay rise here to match my value to the company (if you happened to be in that line of work) & while others are moving for large fee’s & getting pay rises, Bryan is still here on £10k p/w (apparently).

He got a pay rise last year when he signed a new contract.

My point being in all of this is if we truly value these players so highly then give them a wage closer to that value & send out a message to any interested clubs that they’ve just signed a new contract & it’s pointless making an approach for those players that we supposedly value so highly, I mean, it’s not like we are a club struggling financially & can’t afford to pay these players what they deserve so let’s stop the possibility of clubs making offers for our prized assets & show them that we are serious in progressing as a club.

Why would we pay players Premier League wages in the Championship even if we think the players are that good, especially when they have 2.5 years left on their current deals. That would be awful business management and if we didn't then get promoted the club would go belly up. 

 

[Rocking Red Cyril]

On 13/12/2017 at 18:31, Red Right Hand said:

A million quid for someone who`s played twenty games and only three above league 2. The going rate these days though I suppose.

The world`s gone mad I tells thee.

 

indeed mad as mad can be

[palmerred]

1 hour ago, ScottishRed said:

£2.5m for Matty Taylor? Was that the joke in your cracker yesterday?

Prolific in league one, and part of  a squad near the top of the Championship, with a few decent assists to his name and a couple of goals at this level. I would like to see someone buy him for less.

[Tipps69]

50 minutes ago, palmerred said:

Right this is the one thing I really want to pick up on. £25m is not a big fee for a Premier League player, especially one being watched by the International committee and one who has recently been bigged up in the media and press and touted as a future star. 24 is still young, he has 10-12 years left in him and won't reach his peak for 4-5 years yet. 

You keep going on about the money angle but your argument is pointless, when a club gives you a contract you accept the terms and sign it. It works both ways, if you become a star, chances are your next contract will be big or someone from a bigger company may wish to buy you, but unless the person who holds your contract is willing to let you move on there is nothing you can do. That's like saying when Gary O'Neill signed on 15-20K a week, because he hasn't played and been injured we should be allowed to pay him 2K a week and he shouldn't get what's in his contract. Joe Bryan signed a 2 year extension last season and 2.5 years on his current deal. He is not missing out on any money and can't view that he should be at a different club getting x amount a week. The reality is when it comes to his next deal he is in the power seats with us, if we don't think we can justify those demands, rather than let him go for free, we would sell him before his contract runs out. No club is gonna give someone a new contract, then 3-4 months later offer them another new one on more money, If clubs done that they would go out of business. 

If Aden Flint wanted out in the summer, he could have requested a transfer but he didn't. Had he done that he would have forgone his right for a percentage of sale, and future wages. He didn't so clearly he wasn't seeing pound signs.

 

The money angle isn’t pointless, when Bryan signed his contract he would of been worth £500,000 at most, now you are saying he’s an international quality player but he’s being paid £10k p/w as a reward while others players of his stature are earning possibly 10 times as much a week as he is currently getting. By not rewarding him for his rise in the game we are inviting other clubs to make a move for him, which in my opinion is unwanted attention for him because any number of clubs could offer him more than what he’s currently on. Obviously I don’t know your line of work but if someone from one of your companies competitors said to you that they were earning anywhere from 2 to 10 times more than what you currently earn for doing the same job, would you not think about leaving to join that company or at least going to your boss & making them aware of what you can earn elsewhere? If your answer to that is no, then you’re probably in the 1% of the world! If the clubs hardline is that you aren’t going anywhere & you aren’t getting anymore money, you’re going to be unhappy. Players talk to other players from other clubs, ex-teammates etc & they discuss what they earn (ball park figures) & if you’re that good a player, managers of other clubs will use their players to attract good players to their club if they know there are friendships there.

And for the large part, a contract isn’t worth the paper it’s written on, if a player finds out he can ear x amount more elsewhere & there is no hope of them earning it where they are now, they will start to rock the boat & it happens, regularly. 

Theoretically, what happens if come January Wolves turn around & make Flint, Smith, Pack, Paterson & Bryan all aware (through other players & agents) that they are willing to offer them 2 or 3 times their current wages because suddenly they have all been recognised as good players, those players are going wonder why another club are willing to offer them so much but their current club aren’t, it’s huge sums of money, players have families to look after & it’s fairly short careers & any attention is going to unwanted on City’s behalf, even if only one or two of those players have their heads turned, the club are in trouble because we can’t afford to leave anybody out of the squad at the moment but that’s exactly what we had to do with Flint because his head had been turned (his own admission) so can we afford to leave anyone out for a few weeks or months? Not in my opinion we can’t.

Say we do get a large bid in for anyone of those players, any replacements brought in will undoubtedly cost more in wages than the players currently here & we need them to hit the ground running which is unlikely as they won’t know the clubs philosophy of playing styles & tactics, it’s not as simple as just walking onto a pitch anymore, there are so many tactics to be aware of nowadays. It will cost us unless we are extremely lucky.

I’m not saying pay everyone £30k p/w, everyone has a different value both in monetary terms & in playing terms but I would rather we gave other clubs no reason to approach us for the players we want to build the club around rather than run the risk of having unhappy players around the club.

But it has to be remembered that Bristol City aren’t amongst the highest payers in the division & other clubs will be aware that they could upset the clubs current good atmosphere just by simply mentioning how much they could earn at another club.

I don’t think we’re going to agree on this & we’re just going to have to see how things pan out.

[palmerred]

2 minutes ago, Tipps69 said:

The money angle isn’t pointless, when Bryan signed his contract he would of been worth £500,000 at most, now you are saying he’s an international quality player but he’s being paid £10k p/w as a reward while others players of his stature are earning possibly 10 times as much a week as he is currently getting. By not rewarding him for his rise in the game we are inviting other clubs to make a move for him, which in my opinion is unwanted attention for him because any number of clubs could offer him more than what he’s currently on. Obviously I don’t know your line of work but if someone from one of your companies competitors said to you that they were earning anywhere from 2 to 10 times more than what you currently earn for doing the same job, would you not think about leaving to join that company or at least going to your boss & making them aware of what you can earn elsewhere? If your answer to that is no, then you’re probably in the 1% of the world! If the clubs hardline is that you aren’t going anywhere & you aren’t getting anymore money, you’re going to be unhappy. Players talk to other players from other clubs, ex-teammates etc & they discuss what they earn (ball park figures) & if you’re that good a player, managers of other clubs will use their players to attract good players to their club if they know there are friendships there.

Yes but I also don't have a contract with my boss, so I could effectively hand in my months notice and leave and take such job!  We aren't going to go and pay large wages offering new deals every few months to deter clubs. If a club is happy to meet our valuation they can talk to the player and pay him what they want. Every player is under contract. He may be able to earn more elsewhere but if that club aren't willing to pay me what I believe he is worth, then they wont have the opportunity to work there. Bryan has 2.5 years on his contract, we have no need to make him a new contract offer for at least 18 months. What a club is willing to pay a player is immaterial !!!! UNLESS they can pay the club what they want. It's a bit like me going right I've won the euro millions and got 140m and I want to buy Messi for 1 year at Bristol City, I'll pay him £1m a month for 12 months, he might be great where do I sign, but if I can't pay Barcelona the £100m+ they would want, what I am willing to pay Messi is neither here or there.

And for the large part, a contract isn’t worth the paper it’s written on, if a player finds out he can ear x amount more elsewhere & there is no hope of them earning it where they are now, they will start to rock the boat & it happens, regularly. 

No it's doesn't. Very few players request transfers. As it means it forgoes their opportunity to be paid up their current contract when they leave a club. Take Flint for instance, I am Harry Redknapp and tell Flint's agent if he comes to us I'll give him 20K a week. However Bristol City aren't keen to sell to me for what I've offered. I then get Flint to request a transfer, suddenly I do a deal with Bristol City and agree on £5m for Flint. Then Flint comes to see me and I say right it's £5000 a week basic, then £5000 if you play, £3000 if on bench, £1000 if unused sub. Plus £2000 win fee and £2000 clean sheet fee, £1000 goal bonus, and I'll give you £250K end of year if we are top 10. Flint's agent goes but you told us you would pay 20K a week, and I go, well that is 20K a week, if he is playing and we are winning and doing well. Take it or leave it. At this point Flint has made his bed at Bristol City wanting to leave, the club wouldn't have to make up the difference in wages, and remember there can be no contract between club and agent or Flint, until club gives permission. If you don't think this happens you are wrong. My mate is an ex player who was tricked into requesting a transfer once thinking he was getting a better deal. So it does happen. Once a player requests a transfer, they remove the previous clubs agreement to honour their wage and contract when they leave. 

Theoretically, what happens if come January Wolves turn around & make Flint, Smith, Pack, Paterson & Bryan all aware (through other players & agents) that they are willing to offer them 2 or 3 times their current wages because suddenly they have all been recognised as good players, those players are going wonder why another club are willing to offer them so much but their current club aren’t, it’s huge sums of money, players have families to look after & it’s fairly short careers & any attention is going to unwanted on City’s behalf, even if only one or two of those players have their heads turned, the club are in trouble because we can’t afford to leave anybody out of the squad at the moment but that’s exactly what we had to do with Flint because his head had been turned (his own admission) so can we afford to leave anyone out for a few weeks or months? Not in my opinion we can’t.

We would report Wolves for tapping up. If the players wish to move, we would ask them to submit a transfer request. If they do then we look to sell, if they don't they will continue to be used unless a club makes an agreeable offer. 

Say we do get a large bid in for anyone of those players, any replacements brought in will undoubtedly cost more in wages than the players currently here & we need them to hit the ground running which is unlikely as they won’t know the clubs philosophy of playing styles & tactics, it’s not as simple as just walking onto a pitch anymore, there are so many tactics to be aware of nowadays. It will cost us unless we are extremely lucky.

I’m not saying pay everyone £30k p/w, everyone has a different value both in monetary terms & in playing terms but I would rather we gave other clubs no reason to approach us for the players we want to build the club around rather than run the risk of having unhappy players around the club.

But it has to be remembered that Bristol City aren’t amongst the highest payers in the division & other clubs will be aware that they could upset the clubs current good atmosphere just by simply mentioning how much they could earn at another club.

I don’t think we’re going to agree on this & we’re just going to have to see how things pan out.

 

[Tipps69]

42 minutes ago, palmerred said:

 

Okay, sorry but I’m getting bored now, Virgil Van Dijk was dropped from Southampton’s team because of ongoing transfer speculation during the start of the season, once the window shut & he’d got his head back where it belonged, he was recalled to the team. VVD has recently been dropped again & is again missing from today’s team, their manager was asked if he would be considered for selection in the coming games to which he replied that he probably wouldn’t be considered for selection until the transfer window shuts, if he’s still there. This is Southampton, a settled & established Premier League club & VVD is a player who is already an established international player who will be on decent wages but he has had his head turned by transfer speculation linking him to bigger clubs who will pay him a higher wage. Southampton haven’t accepted any bids & technically can’t even receive any bids for him but even before the transfer window has opened they have been disrupted by possible transfer business.

It happens, Coutinho wasn’t selected by LIVERPOOL at the start of the season because he had had his head turned by a possible move to Barcelona, Liverpool never accepted a deal so in your world it shouldn’t of got to the stage of affecting Coutinho as Barcelona shouldn’t of been able to let Coutinho know about their interest, this is LIVERPOOL, one of the biggest clubs in the world & Coutinho who plays for Brazil & I’ve no doubt he is paid a ridiculously high wage already but an even bigger club had made it known that they wanted him & it affected him!!

It happens, irrespective of contracts or agents or football authorities, it happens!!

The difference being between those two situations & any potential situation arising at Bristol City is that we don’t currently have the squad depth to enable us to drop any one, two or three of our players & it would probably disrupt us massively but you carry on believing that Bristol City are the biggest club in the world & that all that matters is players being happy playing football irrespective of whether they are getting paid as well as they could elsewhere or not.

Players want to better themselves & if that’s not possible where they are, they will look to do it elsewhere.

[palmerred]

Just because those clubs drop said players, doesn’t mean you have to. Also Virgil requested a transfer in the summer, but Southampton won’t sell him.