Cowshed Posted February 11, 2018 Report Share Posted February 11, 2018 2 minutes ago, RedSA said: Where do you get your stats from out of interest? Stats bomb, prozone, squawka and the FA (mentors, tutors ..). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SedRA Posted February 11, 2018 Report Share Posted February 11, 2018 18 minutes ago, Cowshed said: Stats bomb, prozone, squawka and the FA (mentors, tutors ..). So the pro subscription services. Are you training as analyst or coaching? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted February 11, 2018 Report Share Posted February 11, 2018 4 minutes ago, RedSA said: So the pro subscription services. Are you training as analyst or coaching? Coach. My interest in data was piqued by a FA tutor who showed how data could be used to objectively evaluate how people coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted February 11, 2018 Report Share Posted February 11, 2018 6 minutes ago, Cowshed said: Coach. My interest in data was piqued by a FA tutor who showed how data could be used to objectively evaluate how people coach. At what level out of interest? Feel free to ignore if you don’t want to divulge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted February 11, 2018 Report Share Posted February 11, 2018 14 minutes ago, Davefevs said: At what level out of interest? Feel free to ignore if you don’t want to divulge. Semi pro youth, football schools, development centres ... Not pro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudolf Hucker Posted February 12, 2018 Report Share Posted February 12, 2018 1 hour ago, Cowshed said: It depends on how you want your team and Keeper to perform. Want to go long Archer at Millwall and Alnwick at Bolton will hit their target more frequently. Want to play short and to feet through the thirds using the Keeper to assist in Keeping the ball moving it follows to have a Keeper having that skill set. An example of the latter is Bravo and Ederson at Man City. They have passing stats of outfield players because the style of the team necessitates it. Joe Hart did not have that ability so was replaced. The problem I have with stats in football is that people use them to clinically objectify what is truly a subjective subject. Using statistics, how was Franky's double save measured? Can one add his 59% kicking accuracy stats to "absolutely 'kin brilliant" and deliver a resulting absolute value? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted February 12, 2018 Report Share Posted February 12, 2018 7 hours ago, Rudolf Hucker said: The problem I have with stats in football is that people use them to clinically objectify what is truly a subjective subject. Using statistics, how was Franky's double save measured? Can one add his 59% kicking accuracy stats to "absolutely 'kin brilliant" and deliver a resulting absolute value? Can one add his 59% kicking accuracy stats to "absolutely 'kin brilliant" and deliver a resulting absolute value? Expected goals can be measured, so perhaps expected saves and the unexpected can be also, I do not know because I have not seen it. Some Keepers shot stopping ability resolutely maintains itself by tiny numerical values season to season. Can one add his 59% kicking accuracy stats to "absolutely 'kin brilliant" and deliver a resulting absolute value? Yes. In the same manner it can be to a team. Give the ball away more, or less the outcomes are measurable, and accurate not to the second or game but clear over games and seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudolf Hucker Posted February 12, 2018 Report Share Posted February 12, 2018 6 hours ago, Cowshed said: Can one add his 59% kicking accuracy stats to "absolutely 'kin brilliant" and deliver a resulting absolute value? Expected goals can be measured, so perhaps expected saves and the unexpected can be also, I do not know because I have not seen it. Some Keepers shot stopping ability resolutely maintains itself by tiny numerical values season to season. Can one add his 59% kicking accuracy stats to "absolutely 'kin brilliant" and deliver a resulting absolute value? Yes. In the same manner it can be to a team. Give the ball away more, or less the outcomes are measurable, and accurate not to the second or game but clear over games and seasons. Statistics can be used to prove whatever you want - politicians and company directors master the art. The mean depth of the Pacific Ocean is 14,000ft which is made up from averaging the <1 inch depths lapping onto Californian beaches to the 36,000ft deep Mariana Trench. In other words, it's a completely meaningless statistic - as would be adding a 59% kicking accuracy to "absolutely 'kin brilliant" and deriving from those disparate elements, an absolute value. The industry which has recently developed to provide such statistics has arisen as a result of the myriad of betting companies offering odds upon virtually every aspect of every game played. There are some statistics which are no doubt of interest and value to professional coaches in spotting areas of strength and weakness in players but to the greater majority of us fans, the statistics are meaningless and of no importance. The double save made by Frankie on Saturday was one of the best I've ever witnessed - it made me stand and applaud it. He's a very good, very reliable keeper whose kicking is not the best part of his game. I don't need statistics to prove that because I see it every week! I'd certainly rather have him in goal than (from what little I've seen of them) Archer at Millwall or Alnwick at Bolton - even though their statistics may be more favourable. Sorry to use that very well worn phrase, but Frankie seems to have the right dna for the City squad but that's my purely subjective assessment of him - not one that can be measured! Anyway we'll agree to disagree. Thanks for having made time to respond to an interesting (to me) debate! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted February 12, 2018 Report Share Posted February 12, 2018 7 hours ago, Rudolf Hucker said: Statistics can be used to prove whatever you want - politicians and company directors master the art. The mean depth of the Pacific Ocean is 14,000ft which is made up from averaging the <1 inch depths lapping onto Californian beaches to the 36,000ft deep Mariana Trench. In other words, it's a completely meaningless statistic - as would be adding a 59% kicking accuracy to "absolutely 'kin brilliant" and deriving from those disparate elements, an absolute value. The industry which has recently developed to provide such statistics has arisen as a result of the myriad of betting companies offering odds upon virtually every aspect of every game played. There are some statistics which are no doubt of interest and value to professional coaches in spotting areas of strength and weakness in players but to the greater majority of us fans, the statistics are meaningless and of no importance. The double save made by Frankie on Saturday was one of the best I've ever witnessed - it made me stand and applaud it. He's a very good, very reliable keeper whose kicking is not the best part of his game. I don't need statistics to prove that because I see it every week! I'd certainly rather have him in goal than (from what little I've seen of them) Archer at Millwall or Alnwick at Bolton - even though their statistics may be more favourable. Sorry to use that very well worn phrase, but Frankie seems to have the right dna for the City squad but that's my purely subjective assessment of him - not one that can be measured! Anyway we'll agree to disagree. Thanks for having made time to respond to an interesting (to me) debate! And a point made in this thread is that playing with the feet is the major part of a Keepers game. This is a fact. The industry which has recently developed to provide such statistics has arisen as a result of the myriad of betting companies ... Statistical analysis has been part of English football since the eighties. The FA's blue print for football was based upon the work of Charles Hughes a football analyst. What is seen now is a logical progression. Its a norm used to assist the teaching of kids to pros and not driven by betting companies, but by the quest to improve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedNight Posted February 13, 2018 Report Share Posted February 13, 2018 On 10/02/2018 at 19:22, MC RISK77 said: I only focussed on his kicking which is beyond woeful Rather than a world class save? Okay mate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC RISK77 Posted February 14, 2018 Report Share Posted February 14, 2018 8 hours ago, RedNight said: Rather than a world class save? Okay mate All keepers make instinctive world class saves at several points during the season mate!!! However good distribution is now almost equally as important, you don’t need to be pep guardiola to understand that. And unfortunately fielding distribution is awful. Hope that clears it up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedNight Posted February 14, 2018 Report Share Posted February 14, 2018 53 minutes ago, MC RISK77 said: All keepers make instinctive world class saves at several points during the season mate!!! However good distribution is now almost equally as important, you don’t need to be pep guardiola to understand that. And unfortunately fielding distribution is awful. Hope that clears it up Ok Pep, do you understand that Frankie is instructed to kick wide and why we do that? I'm not saying he's to De gea or Ederson standard, but there's a reason he kicks wide and yes a few times it goes out of play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC RISK77 Posted February 14, 2018 Report Share Posted February 14, 2018 1 minute ago, RedNight said: Ok Pep, do you understand that Frankie is instructed to kick wide and why we do that? I'm not saying he's to De gea or Ederson standard, but there's a reason he kicks wide and yes a few times it goes out of play. Yes that is obvious and It is clear on flints positioning at goal kicks that this is the case....it is also clear though that it is more than a few times it goes out, in fact pretty sure the lads and lasses in s82 produced an ironic cheer when one actually stayed in the park on Saturday. As I said every keeper produces world class saves through the course of a season but distribution is very important and not sure I would put Fielding in the top 10 in this league in that respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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