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Lowering our sights


Ivorguy

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LJ says automatic promotion now not a target, but playoffs are.

If only we had invested in success we would still be in the frame for automatics. In my opinion

Same old City, as we've been for almost all my 70 years plus, bottling it again and not aiming consistently for the top

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5 minutes ago, Ivorguy said:

LJ says automatic promotion now not a target, but playoffs are.

If only we had invested in success we would still be in the frame for automatics. In my opinion

Same old City, as we've been for almost all my 70 years plus, bottling it again and not aiming consistently for the top

I think the risk was too big. Too many teams in and around us to take a gamble. If we had been up there with Wolves with a 6-9 point margin then I think we would have seen more activity in January.

We aren't going to break the bank in a gamble to go up. 

Sadly, the players we have as a team cannot find any consistency, we have injuries and some players have completely lost form, or haven't shown any full stop.

This is City. We are used to it.

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18 minutes ago, Ivorguy said:

LJ says automatic promotion now not a target, but playoffs are.

If only we had invested in success we would still be in the frame for automatics. In my opinion

Same old City, as we've been for almost all my 70 years plus, bottling it again and not aiming consistently for the top

well said ivor frustrating as hell either leaking goals at the back one year or cant score goals the next oh well theirs always next year but you an i running out of time mate

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Not sure how many more topics we're going to have slating the January transfer window.

If we would've went throwing money at any experienced player that moves and missed out on promotion or went through a bad run of form, the club would've got criticized for their transfer dealings then too.

Except it would've been more costly to the club financially. The club literally cannot win. Hindsight is a beautiful thing and I didn't see anybody moaning at the time! (RB position aside)

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Also bringing in a few "Billy big wallet / I'm only here for the dosh" players would probably have destroyed the team spirit built up until then and could have sent us into nose dive.

We're still in the mix, I can't see a fat lady singing yet and getting C O'D back I personally feel could make one hell of a difference.

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5 minutes ago, Float'n Over said:

Also bringing in a few "Billy big wallet / I'm only here for the dosh" players would probably have destroyed the team spirit built up until then and could have sent us into nose dive.

We're still in the mix, I can't see a fat lady singing yet and getting C O'D back I personally feel could make one hell of a difference.

i dont think villa fans are moaning with Grabban do you

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39 minutes ago, RobintheRed Red said:

again down to money pay peanuts  you get monkeys no pun intended .

I'm guessing you don't earn much then  :banana:

 

Using your logic, these players are listed in order from best to worst?

Andy Carroll (35m)

Christian Benteke (32m)

Suarez (23m)

Torres (20m)

Mascherano (18.6m)

Coutinho (12m)

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5 minutes ago, Bryans Left Peg said:

I'm guessing you don't earn much then  :banana:

 

Using your logic, these players are listed in order from best to worst?

Andy Carroll (35m)

Christian Benteke (32m)

Suarez (23m)

Torres (20m)

Mascherano (18.6m)

Coutinho (12m)

Too many pricks on here looking for an argument you sir are certainly one of em

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1 hour ago, Float'n Over said:

Also bringing in a few "Billy big wallet / I'm only here for the dosh" players would probably have destroyed the team spirit built up until then and could have sent us into nose dive.

We're still in the mix, I can't see a fat lady singing yet and getting C O'D back I personally feel could make one hell of a difference.

nose dive, what do you call our current form if not a nose dive.

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10 minutes ago, RobintheRed Red said:

Too many pricks on here looking for an argument you sir are certainly one of em

I wasn't looking for an argument. The first comment was clearly tongue in cheek (hence the dancing emoji) and the list of players was to debunk your ridiculous statement.

It's not my fault that you're not very intelligent. 

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We are indeed a bit of an oddity in the footballing world.

Wonder if Wagner at Huddersfield was readjusting his targets and setting his sights lower at this stage last season? Wonder if he was buying-in strikers who hadn’t scored any goals and unproven youngsters to mount their charge for promotion?

Most bizarre. Maybe were taking a leaf out of the City Council’s ‘always tomorrow’ book. 

If I was in a team, I’d want my leaders to be telling me ‘we aim for the stars, being second best Is unacceptable’. Don’t think we’re breeding a winning mentality here, no wonder it’s 1 in 10. 

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8 minutes ago, Moor2Sea said:

We are indeed a bit of an oddity in the footballing world.

Wonder if Wagner at Huddersfield was readjusting his targets and setting his sights lower at this stage last season? Wonder if he was buying-in strikers who hadn’t scored any goals and unproven youngsters to mount their charge for promotion?

Most bizarre. Maybe were taking a leaf out of the City Council’s ‘always tomorrow’ book. 

If I was in a team, I’d want my leaders to be telling me ‘we aim for the stars, being second best Is unacceptable’. Don’t think we’re breeding a winning mentality here, no wonder it’s 1 in 10. 

Huddersfield brought in two players and spent $500k in the January transfer window, 2016/2017 season.

Collin Quaner from Union Berlin ($500k) and Isaiah Brown on loan from Chelsea.

They let four people leave in this period.

(According to TransferMarket)

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7 hours ago, RobintheRed Red said:

i dont think villa fans are moaning with Grabban do you

Do you really think we'd have been able to out bid villa on Grabban? 

In January any good player available is going to have plenty of suitors and we wouldn't be able to match the wages of many of those. I'm sure we had targets we missed out on to other, bigger clubs

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5 hours ago, Bryans Left Peg said:

Huddersfield brought in two players and spent $500k in the January transfer window, 2016/2017 season.

Collin Quaner from Union Berlin ($500k) and Isaiah Brown on loan from Chelsea.

They let four people leave in this period.

(According to TransferMarket)

Quaner with a 1 in 2 goal ratio in Germany in the first part of the season prior to purchase and both contributing goals to Huddersfield’s promotion push. 

Not saying throw money at it, am saying be smart with what the (little) money you have. 

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18 minutes ago, Moor2Sea said:

Quaner with a 1 in 2 goal ratio in Germany in the first part of the season prior to purchase and both contributing goals to Huddersfield’s promotion push. 

Not saying throw money at it, am saying be smart with what the (little) money you have. 

Quaner scored 2 in 17 appearances last year. As bad as Diony's start has been, given 17 appearances he still couldn't have much less of a goalscoring impact. 

Also shows buying in someone in good goals form doesn't necessarily mean they'll keep it up. 

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5 hours ago, JBFC II said:

Do you really think we'd have been able to out bid villa on Grabban? 

In January any good player available is going to have plenty of suitors and we wouldn't be able to match the wages of many of those. I'm sure we had targets we missed out on to other, bigger clubs

we should haved moved quicker for him all this wasted wages sat on the bench or out on loan Engvald Ellison woodrow none of these players come cheap

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14 hours ago, Cheesleysmate said:

I think the risk was too big. Too many teams in and around us to take a gamble. If we had been up there with Wolves with a 6-9 point margin then I think we would have seen more activity in January.

We aren't going to break the bank in a gamble to go up. 

Sadly, the players we have as a team cannot find any consistency, we have injuries and some players have completely lost form, or haven't shown any full stop.

This is City. We are used to it.

That 'risk' is never going to not be there unless you buy big in the previous summer and get those buys spot on.

There is always going to be a risk that is required to get promoted from this league, the biggest challenge is the number of teams that have PL money in their pocket and not just the three that were relegated the previous campaign.

At some point we are going to have to take a risk otherwise we are not going to get promotion.

As I have stated before the current strategy is flawed - buy cheap, develop, sell at a profit - rinse and repeat, is a recipe that will not see us in the PL anytime soon.

As an example, let's say that we start next season in The Championship and we start well, by Christmas we are 2/3 ..........it can't get much better than that, so you strengthen because whilst there is risk it's not as big as it could be.................oh, wait a minute!

There does have to be a question mark about the clubs ambition and that has potentially passed on to the players and their efforts since the start of this year.

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12 hours ago, Moor2Sea said:

We are indeed a bit of an oddity in the footballing world.

Wonder if Wagner at Huddersfield was readjusting his targets and setting his sights lower at this stage last season? Wonder if he was buying-in strikers who hadn’t scored any goals and unproven youngsters to mount their charge for promotion?

 

The answer to your part of your question there is a yes. Huddersfield used young loanees. The important thing was that the players brought in fitted Huddersfiled's tactics a 4-2-3-1 (a formation you dislike!) with high lines and high energy pressing meaning fit youngsters were needed as a fundamental element. 

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1 hour ago, RobintheRed Red said:

we should haved moved quicker for him all this wasted wages sat on the bench or out on loan Engvald Ellison woodrow none of these players come cheap

Certainly Elilason  and Gustav should have been loaned out if at all possible, it is hard to see them making any positive contribution between now and the beginning of May.

As for Woodrow, clearly we couldn't loan him out but whatever he has cost has been a waste of resources.

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2 minutes ago, ScottishRed said:

Certainly Elilason  and Gustav should have been loaned out if at all possible, it is hard to see them making any positive contribution between now and the beginning of May.

As for Woodrow, clearly we couldn't loan him out but whatever he has cost has been a waste of resources.

yes we dont spend vast amounts clearly thats why we didnt get a top striker in but the amount of millions weve git on the bench or on loan could have paid the wages for a class striker an fullback even if on loan

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13 minutes ago, Bobby Bollax said:

Wolves got Afobe 

cardiff - Madine 

fulham - Mitrovic 

villa - Grabben

Derby - Jerome 

@RobintheRed Red - 4 out of those 5 clubs we have absolutely no hope in competing with for top players. Maybe after another 5 years of solid progress but now - not a chance. 

The other club is Cardiff and they’re welcome to Madine. 

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According to Dean Hoyle, Huddersfield owner, they cut their wage bill last season.

According to Wagner, head coach, they were 19th/24 for wages last season, with a top earner on 10k a week.

They brought in 11 senior players - including 5 Germans - before last season, spending £3.8m. According to the guardian.

According to my research, they got out of the League Cup at the first attempt, losing to Shrewsbury, and got off to a flier in the League.

In the FA Cup, they played 4 times, with a replay v Man City (hammered 5:1). In the ten games following their cup exit to Man City, they lost 5 times - including 4 goal hammerings by us, and one by Fulham - and drew once.

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3 minutes ago, Jack Dawe said:

According to Dean Hoyle, Huddersfield owner, they cut their wage bill last season.

According to Wagner, head coach, they were 19th/24 for wages last season, with a top earner on 10k a week.

They brought in 11 senior players - including 5 Germans - before last season, spending £3.8m. According to the guardian.

According to my research, they got out of the League Cup at the first attempt, losing to Shrewsbury, and got off to a flier in the League.

In the FA Cup, they played 4 times, with a replay v Man City (hammered 5:1). In the ten games following their cup exit to Man City, they lost 5 times - including 4 goal hammerings by us, and one by Fulham - and drew once.

You can't go around spoiling a good gripe with mere facts my good fellow!!!

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32 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

The answer to your part of your question there is a yes. Huddersfield used young loanees. The important thing was that the players brought in fitted Huddersfiled's tactics a 4-2-3-1 (a formation you dislike!) with high lines and high energy pressing meaning fit youngsters were needed as a fundamental element. 

Huddersfield tactics appear pretty sound to me, love high lines and high energy pressing. 

So the crux is the lad they loaned from Chelsea in January fitted the system, contributed goals (4) and generally made a positive impact.

We seemed to have failed to find any loanees or cheap transfers who can make such impact. 

Can only hope that Duric, who I rate highly - if only he could stay fit - can make a rapid recovery, with GON and Eros returning we may just squeak it ..... but a wasted window to me, momentum lost and worst still, repeat mistakes. MA, despite all his indirect self-praise, has royally ******* it up to me.

Good chance though I’ll be proved wrong with Diony slamming a hat trick on Saturday, Kent murdering his full back and constantly getting to the goal line to supply some wonderous crosses and Walsh pulling all the strings in midfield. We can but genuinely hope that what we’ve seen so far is just the result of the players misunderstanding what is required.

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19 minutes ago, Andy Horsman said:

You can't go around spoiling a good gripe with mere facts my good fellow!!!

You jest, but you are bang on. 

Facts and data are not enough to shift City fans - or anyone! - with a firmly held opinion or outlook from their long held beliefs. As a boffin put it recently:

"The problem with an approach that prioritizes information is that it ignores the core of what makes us human; our motives, our fears, our hopes, our desires, our prior beliefs."

It's a mistake so many make on here - including me! - presenting facts and expecting others to change their minds. Poor old @spudski almost drove himself mad on here last season doing this, and needed a break.

I think we would do better to get @Ivorguy to spit out his motives, his fears, his hopes and desires for this club, before hammering away at him with "facts" and reason/logic.

But this place is full of blokes, and blokes don't do that sort of thing; blokes do facts and information. And calling each other "cock" and such like.

 

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3 minutes ago, Jack Dawe said:

You jest, but you are bang on. 

Facts and data are not enough to shift City fans - or anyone! - with a firmly held opinion or outlook from their long held beliefs. As a boffin put it recently:

"The problem with an approach that prioritizes information is that it ignores the core of what makes us human; our motives, our fears, our hopes, our desires, our prior beliefs."

It's a mistake so many make on here - including me! - presenting facts and expecting others to change their minds. Poor old @spudski almost drove himself mad on here last season doing this, and needed a break.

I think we would do better to get @Ivorguy to spit out his motives, his fears, his hopes and desires for this club, before hammering away at him with "facts" and reason/logic.

But this place is full of blokes, and blokes don't do that sort of thing; blokes do facts and information. And calling each other "cock" and such like.

 

When civilized mature debate is reduced to being considered inferior to good old intimidation and name calling we've lost the plot! Keep fighting the good fight.

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34 minutes ago, Moor2Sea said:

Huddersfield tactics appear pretty sound to me, love high lines and high energy pressing. 

So the crux is the lad they loaned from Chelsea in January fitted the system, contributed goals (4) and generally made a positive impact.

We seemed to have failed to find any loanees or cheap transfers who can make such impact. 

Can only hope that Duric, who I rate highly - if only he could stay fit - can make a rapid recovery, with GON and Eros returning we may just squeak it ..... but a wasted window to me, momentum lost and worst still, repeat mistakes. MA, despite all his indirect self-praise, has royally ******* it up to me.

Good chance though I’ll be proved wrong with Diony slamming a hat trick on Saturday, Kent murdering his full back and constantly getting to the goal line to supply some wonderous crosses and Walsh pulling all the strings in midfield. We can but genuinely hope that what we’ve seen so far is just the result of the players misunderstanding what is required.

Huddersfield were not aiming for the stars to use your phrase. Unproven youngsters were part of their philosophy, and they were an oddity in regards to how little they spent.

That is part of the why of their promotion. 

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16 hours ago, tinman85 said:

This is what makes me laugh. LJ doesn't give any of the youngsters a chance. Don't tell me that Mclowskey or Hinds were any worse than those two mentioned above. Woodrow has been the worst signing since Guy Madjo 

Totally agree. Think how engvall must feel. All well us city fans having a go but the poor bloke is a unused sub every week. When he does come on he gets 5 mins. Everyone expects the miracle to happen but without giving these young hungry strikers a chance nothing will change

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