All Goals Conceded Are Mistakes?

[Davefevs]

Just going backwards from last night’s game, how many goals have we conceded of late where you’d seriously question whether we should have.  My opinion might not match yours, but gives a sense of where we’ve slipped up.

Preston goal 2 - they scored from our free-kick.  Poor header from a Smith into the air rather than forward.  Great through ball on the volley, but Maguire should’ve been sorted by our two defenders.

Preston goal 1 - Magnússon and Fielding not helping each other.  Can’t work out who’s to blame, it doesn’t matter, it cost us a goal.

Cardiff goal - Wright fouled or outmuscled out wide, a player of his strength shouldn’t be

Leeds goal 2 - Bryan lost his man, simples

Sunderland goal 3 - not so much a mistake but very unfortunate OG from Pack

Sunderland goal 2 - Brownhill lost his man, simples (I’ve not include goal 1 because the ball hit the bar first....could’ve easily been a goal anyway)

Bolton goal - our corner, chance to close down Ameobi 40-50 yards earlier.  I hate backing off.

Only concede half of those and it makes a big difference.

 

 

 

 

[BS4 on Tour...]

This is interesting Dave....as a comparison I had a chat with a mate recently (in a pub!) about cricket and how many times we were ‘out’ as batsmen due to unplayable deliveries and how many times we ‘got ourselves out’ with rubbish shot selection....I could only remember two times I was out to balls that would have got anyone else in the world ‘out’ as well, and that obviously suggests I made mistakes for 99.9% of the time to get myself out - it was usually pure impatience as I just liked to spank the ball far and wide at every opportunity for Imperial CC (with Shane Warne), Failand & Portbury CC,  Hengrove CC and Bishop Sutton CC...it’s probably the same with football, most goals involve an error...

[Davefevs]

3 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

This is interesting Dave....as a comparison I had a chat with a mate recently (in a pub!) about cricket and how many times we were ‘out’ as batsmen due to unplayable deliveries and how many times we ‘got ourselves out’ with rubbish shot selection....I could only remember two times I was out to balls that would have got anyone else in the world ‘out’ as well, and that obviously suggests I made mistakes for 99.9% of the time to get myself out - it was usually pure impatience as I just liked to spank the ball far and wide at every opportunity for Imperial CC (with Shane Warne), Failand & Portbury CC,  Hengrove CC and Bishop Sutton CC...it’s probably the same with football, most goals involve an error...

Cricket wise, I knew I was out of nick if I edged one behind....was a good judge around off stump when in form.  Would’ve loved to  have played 3,4,5 day games where you could wait for the bad ball, but 40-45 over cricket made you force the issue, so undoubtedly you’d get out playing the wrong shot to a ball that wasn’t there to be hit.

Football-wise, you’ll see above that I omitted:

Leeds goal 1 - shit marking, but great movement and brilliant cross, probably made the marking look worse, so I left that off.

Sunderland goal 1 - explained above.

Fulham goal - just one of those crosses from Christie that we couldn’t react quick enough to.  

Credit your opponents sometimes!

But it’s quite a high proportion of error involved in goals conceded of late.  Perhaps it’s been like that all season, but we’ve been winning, so perhaps we’ve been ignoring it?

[BS4 on Tour...]

7 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Cricket wise, I knew I was out of nick if I edged one behind....was a good judge around off stump when in form.  Would’ve loved to  have played 3,4,5 day games where you could wait for the bad ball, but 40-45 over cricket made you force the issue, so undoubtedly you’d get out playing the wrong shot to a ball that wasn’t there to be hit.

Football-wise, you’ll see above that I omitted:

Leeds goal 1 - shit marking, but great movement and brilliant cross, probably made the marking look worse, so I left that off.

Sunderland goal 1 - explained above.

Fulham goal - just one of those crosses from Christie that we couldn’t react quick enough to.  

Credit your opponents sometimes!

But it’s quite a high proportion of error involved in goals conceded of late.  Perhaps it’s been like that all season, but we’ve been winning, so perhaps we’ve been ignoring it?

Spot on...we won 2-3 away at Hull when we were 2-0 down and the euphoria decided to omit looking at the goals we conceded...we have made some terrible errors this season and unfortunately the most recent one saw Hörður’s disastrous clearance that you wouldn’t have seen on the Downs- in that situation, foot through it, get rid....don’t play it softly along the ground to an opponent when yer keeper is off his line...it was pathetic for a pro to do that

[reddoh]

20 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

This is interesting Dave....as a comparison I had a chat with a mate recently (in a pub!) about cricket and how many times we were ‘out’ as batsmen due to unplayable deliveries and how many times we ‘got ourselves out’ with rubbish shot selection....I could only remember two times I was out to balls that would have got anyone else in the world ‘out’ as well, and that obviously suggests I made mistakes for 99.9% of the time to get myself out - it was usually pure impatience as I just liked to spank the ball far and wide at every opportunity for Imperial CC (with Shane Warne), Failand & Portbury CC,  Hengrove CC and Bishop Sutton CC...it’s probably the same with football, most goals involve an error...

very interesting coin of phrase  

[BS4 on Tour...]

3 minutes ago, reddoh said:

very interesting coin of phrase  

That was my cricket philosophy as a batsman cos I was an opening bowler...

[reddoh]

1 minute ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

That was my cricket philosophy as a batsman cos I was an opening bowler...

you probably got spanked very often 

[BS4 on Tour...]

3 minutes ago, reddoh said:

you probably got spanked very often 

Yeh but it usually cost me £50....

[reddoh]

gave you a laugh but couldn't find anything to reflect how much it made me laugh 

[BS4 on Tour...]

3 minutes ago, reddoh said:

gave you a laugh but couldn't find anything to reflect how much it made me laugh 

I’ve been reliably informed by error messages that I “cannot react to any more posts today” but I just wanted to say i “like” your post - really don’t get the pathetic restrictions on ‘reactions’ to posts....because this post is my ‘reaction’ to your post, so it hasn’t ‘restricted’ me at all really....

[reddoh]

a fiver will sort it, a saving of 45 quid.

[BS4 on Tour...]

4 minutes ago, reddoh said:

a fiver will sort it, a saving of 45 quid.

Just replying to you saves all that...

[Davefevs]

7 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

I’ve been reliably informed by error messages that I “cannot react to any more posts today” but I just wanted to say i “like” your post - really don’t get the pathetic restrictions on ‘reactions’ to posts....because this post is my ‘reaction’ to your post, so it hasn’t ‘restricted’ me at all really....

8k+ posts.....pay yer fiver ya tight wad.....have one less bottle of Merlot every two years.

[BS4 on Tour...]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

8k+ posts.....pay yer fiver ya tight wad.....have one less bottle of Merlot every two years.

Every ‘two years’ ?! It’s every two hours at the moment! How desperate are people to be able to ‘like’ posts 24/7??! I didn’t even realise there were ‘restrictions’ - do you really pay for the privilege to be able to react to posts?! Hope that make you feel better!

[Davefevs]

2 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Every ‘two years’ ?! It’s every two hours at the moment! How desperate are people to be able to ‘like’ posts 24/7??! I didn’t even realise there were ‘restrictions’ - do you really pay for the privilege to be able to react to posts?! Hope that make you feel better!

It’s more that the forum costs money to run, and £5 a year to support it, is worth it for someone who posts slightly less regularly than me.  It wasn’t about likes / dislikes.  

[Lrrr]

45 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Cricket wise, I knew I was out of nick if I edged one behind....was a good judge around off stump when in form.  Would’ve loved to  have played 3,4,5 day games where you could wait for the bad ball, but 40-45 over cricket made you force the issue, so undoubtedly you’d get out playing the wrong shot to a ball that wasn’t there to be hit.

Football-wise, you’ll see above that I omitted:

Leeds goal 1 - shit marking, but great movement and brilliant cross, probably made the marking look worse, so I left that off.

Sunderland goal 1 - explained above.

Fulham goal - just one of those crosses from Christie that we couldn’t react quick enough to.  

Credit your opponents sometimes!

But it’s quite a high proportion of error involved in goals conceded of late.  Perhaps it’s been like that all season, but we’ve been winning, so perhaps we’ve been ignoring it?

I played a time game against the MCC, opening the batting first ball swang away, second ball same starting line but swang back in and took off stump, then get told later it was the only one he got to swing back all day 

[Davefevs]

5 minutes ago, hodge said:

I played a time game against the MCC, opening the batting first ball swang away, second ball same starting line but swang back in and took off stump, then get told later it was the only one he got to swing back all day 

The joys of opening the batting....can be a long day.  I always liked to face the first ball, always worked on the thought that I’d get a loosener rather than a good’un....and I might get off the mark.

Was not a fan of League Umpires, who were a bit trigger happy.  Remember getting trapped in front 1st ball once.  They all went up, even I knew I was plumb, and the umpire said not out.  Got to the other end later in the over and I said "that first ball must’ve been close", he replied "it was out, but I never give anyone out first ball of the game".  Never out first ball of the game / innings....although did have a couple of ‘goldens’ batting lower down as a kid.

[Lrrr]

2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

The joys of opening the batting....can be a long day.  I always liked to face the first ball, always worked on the thought that I’d get a loosener rather than a good’un....and I might get off the mark.

Was not a fan of League Umpires, who were a bit trigger happy.  Remember getting trapped in front 1st ball once.  They all went up, even I knew I was plumb, and the umpire said not out.  Got to the other end later in the over and I said "that first ball must’ve been close", he replied "it was out, but I never give anyone out first ball of the game".  Never out first ball of the game / innings....although did have a couple of ‘goldens’ batting lower down as a kid.

In our league we had the joy of batting team umpiring their own innings, one game I was keeping and basically dove infront of 1st slip to take an edge and they said he didn't edge it 

[Davefevs]

7 minutes ago, hodge said:

In our league we had the joy of batting team umpiring their own innings, one game I was keeping and basically dove infront of 1st slip to take an edge and they said he didn't edge it 

Yes, the club I played for (I stopped 7/8 seasons ago), always got umpires in the 1st team, but nowadays umpire themselves most weeks.  As a batsman now you can just get away with murder, unless it’s back foot, kept low etc.

[myol'man]

Didn't Hollowhead once say it's 3 mistakes that lead to a goal?

[Fiale]

I love our players, but defensively they have been very poor. We simple concede way to many be real contenders atm.  Our goal difference is +11   teams above us   +16   +21   +24   +24    +24   +34

however our goals for are more - or comparitive to 4 of the teams above us. We even scored more than Cardiff sitting in 2nd.

We need to strengthen our defence, and learn how to keep a clean sheet.

 

[Major Isewater]

13 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Just going backwards from last night’s game, how many goals have we conceded of late where you’d seriously question whether we should have.  My opinion might not match yours, but gives a sense of where we’ve slipped up.

Preston goal 2 - they scored from our free-kick.  Poor header from a Smith into the air rather than forward.  Great through ball on the volley, but Maguire should’ve been sorted by our two defenders.

Preston goal 1 - Magnússon and Fielding not helping each other.  Can’t work out who’s to blame, it doesn’t matter, it cost us a goal.

Cardiff goal - Wright fouled or outmuscled out wide, a player of his strength shouldn’t be

Leeds goal 2 - Bryan lost his man, simples

Sunderland goal 3 - not so much a mistake but very unfortunate OG from Pack

Sunderland goal 2 - Brownhill lost his man, simples (I’ve not include goal 1 because the ball hit the bar first....could’ve easily been a goal anyway)

Bolton goal - our corner, chance to close down Ameobi 40-50 yards earlier.  I hate backing off.

Only concede half of those and it makes a big difference.

 

 

 

 

Like you,  I hate to see a player cut through our defence without being challenged ( brilliant when it's the other way round mind ! ) however if a player commits to the tackle and loses out then it is imperative that there is someone there to pick up the pieces otherwise the attacking player is through on goal .

It is a question of making the right decision at the time.

[roadyred]

Id imagine, the same with cricket, 90% of the time there is an error in there at some point. It's very rare that you receive a delivery that with the benefit of hindsight you couldn't have done something to keep out, the same with conceding in football. If someone scores a 30 yarder there will have been a moment where someone will have lost possession or not closed down. 

I think what is more important is the effect the mistake has on decision making and overall momentum, I guess it adds doubt that can spread throughout the team. I know many in the past have alluded to the Wolves game and I am fully on side with this, before Frank came rushing out we were very comfortable, we then followed that with another mistake and the rest is history, and mentioned above (That isn't saying we weren't making any before this point). Since then I don't feel as 'secure' watching us play and the mistakes seemed to have increased. It may also be worth noting we have played some decent sides that are possibly more capable of punishing the errors we make, like Hörður vs Man City. 

I think a couple of steady 1-0 wins would arrest and achieving this may be helped by playing a few sides less capable of punishing us. Its an inevitable part of the game, but like cricket, the bad luck/punishment of errors may come in bunches, like being dropped on 0 and going on to score 100. Let's hope we are about to have a few centuries

 

[The Fat Controller]

14 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Only concede half of those and it makes a big difference.

Sorry to take your thread off on a slight tangent: IMO, we would concede a lot less of these types of goals if we had played anything remotely resembling our first choice defence for a spell this season. Wright, while he has done admirably at RB is a central defender, and having him out there changes the way we defend. Baker being in and out through injury and the regular changing of JB for HM on the left hand side. 

I would suggest our strongest defence is either Bryan-Baker-Flint-Pisano or Bryan-Baker-Wright-Pisano, and by my working out we have only played the second of those selections, and even then only 3 times. Draws with Brentford (2-2), Millwall (0-0) and Villa (1-1) near the start of the season. I think that with the defence playing together regularly we would concede fewer goals of the type of goal you are talking about.

 

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

But the point is that all teams make mistakes.  Its the same as decision making: all players make poor decision at times.  But for every defensive mistake you can look at a missed chance, or a poor decision.   Football is a game of moments of genuis, and moments of indecision; of good passes, and balls skied into touch.  It sounds simplistic, but the fact is that you have to make the most of your chances and end up scoring more goals than your opponent.  And then we haven't even talked about luck...

It's what makes football such a great game to watch.

[Davefevs]

7 hours ago, Chris_Brown said:

Sorry to take your thread off on a slight tangent: IMO, we would concede a lot less of these types of goals if we had played anything remotely resembling our first choice defence for a spell this season. Wright, while he has done admirably at RB is a central defender, and having him out there changes the way we defend. Baker being in and out through injury and the regular changing of JB for HM on the left hand side. 

I would suggest our strongest defence is either Bryan-Baker-Flint-Pisano or Bryan-Baker-Wright-Pisano, and by my working out we have only played the second of those selections, and even then only 3 times. Draws with Brentford (2-2), Millwall (0-0) and Villa (1-1) near the start of the season. I think that with the defence playing together regularly we would concede fewer goals of the type of goal you are talking about.

 

Can’t argue with that....interesting I looked at how many times Wright had partnered Baker (just so happens Pisano and Brysn were the full backs too), a few weeks ago, and yes, just 3 times....all draws....not that I’m trying to make a point re results.  Wright is definitely better as the RCB, than alongside Flint, where he has to play LCB.

5 hours ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

But the point is that all teams make mistakes.  Its the same as decision making: all players make poor decision at times.  But for every defensive mistake you can look at a missed chance, or a poor decision.   Football is a game of moments of genuis, and moments of indecision; of good passes, and balls skied into touch.  It sounds simplistic, but the fact is that you have to make the most of your chances and end up scoring more goals than your opponent.  And then we haven't even talked about luck...

It's what makes football such a great game to watch.

You’ve missed my point....and that’s why I 1) didn’t include every goal we conceded - crediting the opposition for some and 2) I then said if we’d avoided conceding some (not all) it would’ve made a difference.  

Of course all goals are either a combination of brilliance or error....I was just stating that a decent proportion of our recent goals conceded were ones where we perhaps shouldn’t have.

By the same token, we will have scored some in the same way.