Saying my piece then going away

[Luxo Jr.]

This'll be a long one, so for tl;dr purposes, my main thought basically is: It's possible for the season to be a step forward but still disappointing. Whether you're disappointed that we haven't really tried to push for promotion, or you're happy with how we've come on since last season, you're right. This will probably come across as a ramble, but I wanted to say everything I felt like saying then get away from the forum for a bit, as I can't be bothered to read the same argument over and over.

We took risks in our January window. You may not be happy that we didn't go out and spend huge money on a "proven" talent, but like it or not, this is the way we're approaching things. Walsh is a player for the future who's shown promise but is not ready for regular first team football; Diony is clearly a man severely low on confidence who's now struggled to adapt at two clubs he's moved to. We thought we could coax out of him the form and playing style that made him great in Ligue 1, and it's not paid off. Kent has probably been the most disappointing, as he's proven his ability in this league before, but he really didn't show the promise that Liverpool see in him.

Many people wanted us to go and get a proven striker, but it seems the club didn't want to disrupt the model we've adopted, and didn't want to sacrifice disrupting the wage bill for a shot at promotion. Again, you can be enraged at that and supportive, it's totally subjective. 

You may also think that we should have a Warnock or Pulis in charge because "they get teams promoted". They are very successful at what they do, but they're short-term solutions. I haven't bothered to look it up, apologies, but I'd be prepared to bet that most sides with either of those two managers in charge tend to go badly wrong quickly when they leave, partly because both managers tend to put in quick-fix tactics and don't really solve the deeper issues within the club. See Pulis at West Brom/Palace and Warnock almost everywhere since Sheffield United for reference. So yes, we could have got promoted this season if we'd had one of them in charge. In my opinion though, we'd have likely gone straight back down again.

I've seen a lot of people worried that we'll lose some of our best players this summer if/when we don't get promoted. While true, most of our players could now go for much more money this summer than last. If you're angry about us selling our best players to the Premier League for potentially big sums of money, welcome to the world of football. Not one of our players is irreplaceable, although Flint would be a tricky one, and we've shown in recent years that we have our price for players (see Kodjia). Then once we sell them, we bring in new players. We've improved as a club since last season, and better players will now be aware of us after our cup exploits and good run, even though we've faded in the second half of the season. We will survive, and possibly improve, even if we sell some of our players at the end of the season. We didn't panic buy in January, and I see no reason to believe that we're not acting astutely across the club, so if we lose someone like Bryan or Brownhill, I am confident we'd replace them wisely.

I had a fairly heated discussion with a poster on the match thread where I said we shouldn't be judging players like Diedhiou on the money we spent on him. I stand by that. We shouldn't care - we're football fans, and players shouldn't have to justify their price to us. They didn't decide the fee. They should absolutely have to justify their place in the team based on their form, or how well they did at other clubs, but money just clouds people's judgement. Now obviously, if someone cost a ridiculous amount of money, that's hard to ignore, or if someone was free, they're a bargain if they do well, but I don't think we have signed anyone for a ridiculous amount of money, and we shouldn't let a player like Diedhiou always be placed alongside his price when we're judging him, otherwise we'll never be satisfied.

My issue with what's happening at City football-wise is in reactionary tactics, where Johnson will seemingly change our set-up to suit the opposition we're playing. When it works, it's fantastic, but when it doesn't, it can be catastrophic. Again, a Warnock will just play his way or the highway, which is why it's easy for them to get good quickly. It honestly often looks like Johnson is just trying anything to see if it works, like playing Djuric and Diedhiou up top together, or the trend of putting Flint up front in the January period (I know that was partly down to injuries too). I may be wrong though - I haven't seen nearly every game this season. I think Johnson's trying to build a side that can play in every type of game, but for whatever reason the loss of form of Paterson and O Dowda's injury means Brownhill's had to play out wide, and we've lost an attacking creative central midfielder. That's what I feel is what we're lacking, but I may be wrong.

The other thing that gets on my nerves is fans who write players off when they're in bad form - again this is based on Diedhiou's run at the minute, but I can't think of a single member of the squad that hasn't been written off by fans as not good enough at some point during their time here. Football is so often a game of tiny details, and players can have bad games for so many reasons - the game not suiting the way they play, opposition playing a blinder, just recently coming back from injury, low on confidence, playing in an unfamiliar role - it's almost never "they're just not good enough". You can be unhappy with how a player played, but it often feels like people don't want players to succeed once they've decided they're not good enough for the club - Bailey Wright, Magnusson, Diony as prime examples. Again, this is your choice, but it's one of the reasons I don't go on here too often when we're in bad form, as the vitriol towards those who make mistakes I find ridiculous sometimes. 

That's all really. Just another person who's happy with some things, unhappy with others. I'm personally fine with how we're approaching the season and our general business model, as I'd rather we didn't  go to the Premier League before we're ready, but obviously I'm not happy with how the second half on the season has gone, and after last season, it does look as though a trend is appearing. And that's my opinion. I'll probably come back on here when we next look like winning a game, but until then these were pretty much all my thoughts on where we are right now. 

[BobBobSuperBob]

Little point in debating your thread then is there

 

[Luxo Jr.]

2 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Little point in debating your thread then is there

 

Not really, but you can. 

[cidered abroad]

Agree some and disagree on others. You sound just as hacked off with the way we go one step forward and one and a half back.Or is it the other way round? 

Another season that promised much and is ending as a shambles. I back SL and his philosophy of the how we should be run. Trouble is he's got too many square pegs in round holes! 

[Joe hicks]

6 minutes ago, Luxo Jr. said:

This'll be a long one, so for tl;dr purposes, my main thought basically is: It's possible for the season to be a step forward but still disappointing. Whether you're disappointed that we haven't really tried to push for promotion, or you're happy with how we've come on since last season, you're right. This will probably come across as a ramble, but I wanted to say everything I felt like saying then get away from the forum for a bit, as I can't be bothered to read the same argument over and over.

We took risks in our January window. You may not be happy that we didn't go out and spend huge money on a "proven" talent, but like it or not, this is the way we're approaching things. Walsh is a player for the future who's shown promise but is not ready for regular first team football; Diony is clearly a man severely low on confidence who's now struggled to adapt at two clubs he's moved to. We thought we could coax out of him the form and playing style that made him great in Ligue 1, and it's not paid off. Kent has probably been the most disappointing, as he's proven his ability in this league before, but he really didn't show the promise that Liverpool see in him.

Many people wanted us to go and get a proven striker, but it seems the club didn't want to disrupt the model we've adopted, and didn't want to sacrifice disrupting the wage bill for a shot at promotion. Again, you can be enraged at that and supportive, it's totally subjective. 

You may also think that we should have a Warnock or Pulis in charge because "they get teams promoted". They are very successful at what they do, but they're short-term solutions. I haven't bothered to look it up, apologies, but I'd be prepared to bet that most sides with either of those two managers in charge tend to go badly wrong quickly when they leave, partly because both managers tend to put in quick-fix tactics and don't really solve the deeper issues within the club. See Pulis at West Brom/Palace and Warnock almost everywhere since Sheffield United for reference. So yes, we could have got promoted this season if we'd had one of them in charge. In my opinion though, we'd have likely gone straight back down again.

I've seen a lot of people worried that we'll lose some of our best players this summer if/when we don't get promoted. While true, most of our players could now go for much more money this summer than last. If you're angry about us selling our best players to the Premier League for potentially big sums of money, welcome to the world of football. Not one of our players is irreplaceable, although Flint would be a tricky one, and we've shown in recent years that we have our price for players (see Kodjia). Then once we sell them, we bring in new players. We've improved as a club since last season, and better players will now be aware of us after our cup exploits and good run, even though we've faded in the second half of the season. We will survive, and possibly improve, even if we sell some of our players at the end of the season. We didn't panic buy in January, and I see no reason to believe that we're not acting astutely across the club, so if we lose someone like Bryan or Brownhill, I am confident we'd replace them wisely.

I had a fairly heated discussion with a poster on the match thread where I said we shouldn't be judging players like Diedhiou on the money we spent on him. I stand by that. We shouldn't care - we're football fans, and players shouldn't have to justify their price to us. They didn't decide the fee. They should absolutely have to justify their place in the team based on their form, or how well they did at other clubs, but money just clouds people's judgement. Now obviously, if someone cost a ridiculous amount of money, that's hard to ignore, or if someone was free, they're a bargain if they do well, but I don't think we have signed anyone for a ridiculous amount of money, and we shouldn't let a player like Diedhiou always be placed alongside his price when we're judging him, otherwise we'll never be satisfied.

My issue with what's happening at City football-wise is in reactionary tactics, where Johnson will seemingly change our set-up to suit the opposition we're playing. When it works, it's fantastic, but when it doesn't, it can be catastrophic. Again, a Warnock will just play his way or the highway, which is why it's easy for them to get good quickly. It honestly often looks like Johnson is just trying anything to see if it works, like playing Djuric and Diedhiou up top together, or the trend of putting Flint up front in the January period (I know that was partly down to injuries too). I may be wrong though - I haven't seen nearly every game this season. I think Johnson's trying to build a side that can play in every type of game, but for whatever reason the loss of form of Paterson and O Dowda's injury means Brownhill's had to play out wide, and we've lost an attacking creative central midfielder. That's what I feel is what we're lacking, but I may be wrong.

The other thing that gets on my nerves is fans who write players off when they're in bad form - again this is based on Diedhiou's run at the minute, but I can't think of a single member of the squad that hasn't been written off by fans as not good enough at some point during their time here. Football is so often a game of tiny details, and players can have bad games for so many reasons - the game not suiting the way they play, opposition playing a blinder, just recently coming back from injury, low on confidence, playing in an unfamiliar role - it's almost never "they're just not good enough". You can be unhappy with how a player played, but it often feels like people don't want players to succeed once they've decided they're not good enough for the club - Bailey Wright, Magnusson, Diony as prime examples. Again, this is your choice, but it's one of the reasons I don't go on here too often when we're in bad form, as the vitriol towards those who make mistakes I find ridiculous sometimes. 

That's all really. Just another person who's happy with some things, unhappy with others. I'm personally fine with how we're approaching the season and our general business model, as I'd rather we didn't  go to the Premier League before we're ready, but obviously I'm not happy with how the second half on the season has gone, and after last season, it does look as though a trend is appearing. And that's my opinion. I'll probably come back on here when we next look like winning a game, but until then these were pretty much all my thoughts on where we are right now. 

A well reasoned post, and one I agree with completely.  For some it seems promotion at any cost,  tear up the philosophy the minute we are top six, forgetting what got us there in the first place.

January was a gamble (it always is), but I believe we went the right way in continuing to look at it with the probability of being a championship club next season.  Walsh,  like players from last season,  in and out, but will be more prepared for next season. Diony and Kent loans,  nothing really lost., didn't work out, but worth a gamble.

So, steady progress in this league beats the usual struggle of previous years as a second tier club. Two steps forward,  one back it may be. Patience to sustain for me.

[Singingsuperstar]

Mate it wasn't that heated. Difference of opinions is all. We all want what's best for the club and team, we all see it differently. 

City Till We Die. Unlike the players owners management etc! 

[Major Isewater]

23 minutes ago, Luxo Jr. said:

This'll be a long one, so for tl;dr purposes, my main thought basically is: It's possible for the season to be a step forward but still disappointing. Whether you're disappointed that we haven't really tried to push for promotion, or you're happy with how we've come on since last season, you're right. This will probably come across as a ramble, but I wanted to say everything I felt like saying then get away from the forum for a bit, as I can't be bothered to read the same argument over and over.

We took risks in our January window. You may not be happy that we didn't go out and spend huge money on a "proven" talent, but like it or not, this is the way we're approaching things. Walsh is a player for the future who's shown promise but is not ready for regular first team football; Diony is clearly a man severely low on confidence who's now struggled to adapt at two clubs he's moved to. We thought we could coax out of him the form and playing style that made him great in Ligue 1, and it's not paid off. Kent has probably been the most disappointing, as he's proven his ability in this league before, but he really didn't show the promise that Liverpool see in him.

Many people wanted us to go and get a proven striker, but it seems the club didn't want to disrupt the model we've adopted, and didn't want to sacrifice disrupting the wage bill for a shot at promotion. Again, you can be enraged at that and supportive, it's totally subjective. 

You may also think that we should have a Warnock or Pulis in charge because "they get teams promoted". They are very successful at what they do, but they're short-term solutions. I haven't bothered to look it up, apologies, but I'd be prepared to bet that most sides with either of those two managers in charge tend to go badly wrong quickly when they leave, partly because both managers tend to put in quick-fix tactics and don't really solve the deeper issues within the club. See Pulis at West Brom/Palace and Warnock almost everywhere since Sheffield United for reference. So yes, we could have got promoted this season if we'd had one of them in charge. In my opinion though, we'd have likely gone straight back down again.

I've seen a lot of people worried that we'll lose some of our best players this summer if/when we don't get promoted. While true, most of our players could now go for much more money this summer than last. If you're angry about us selling our best players to the Premier League for potentially big sums of money, welcome to the world of football. Not one of our players is irreplaceable, although Flint would be a tricky one, and we've shown in recent years that we have our price for players (see Kodjia). Then once we sell them, we bring in new players. We've improved as a club since last season, and better players will now be aware of us after our cup exploits and good run, even though we've faded in the second half of the season. We will survive, and possibly improve, even if we sell some of our players at the end of the season. We didn't panic buy in January, and I see no reason to believe that we're not acting astutely across the club, so if we lose someone like Bryan or Brownhill, I am confident we'd replace them wisely.

I had a fairly heated discussion with a poster on the match thread where I said we shouldn't be judging players like Diedhiou on the money we spent on him. I stand by that. We shouldn't care - we're football fans, and players shouldn't have to justify their price to us. They didn't decide the fee. They should absolutely have to justify their place in the team based on their form, or how well they did at other clubs, but money just clouds people's judgement. Now obviously, if someone cost a ridiculous amount of money, that's hard to ignore, or if someone was free, they're a bargain if they do well, but I don't think we have signed anyone for a ridiculous amount of money, and we shouldn't let a player like Diedhiou always be placed alongside his price when we're judging him, otherwise we'll never be satisfied.

My issue with what's happening at City football-wise is in reactionary tactics, where Johnson will seemingly change our set-up to suit the opposition we're playing. When it works, it's fantastic, but when it doesn't, it can be catastrophic. Again, a Warnock will just play his way or the highway, which is why it's easy for them to get good quickly. It honestly often looks like Johnson is just trying anything to see if it works, like playing Djuric and Diedhiou up top together, or the trend of putting Flint up front in the January period (I know that was partly down to injuries too). I may be wrong though - I haven't seen nearly every game this season. I think Johnson's trying to build a side that can play in every type of game, but for whatever reason the loss of form of Paterson and O Dowda's injury means Brownhill's had to play out wide, and we've lost an attacking creative central midfielder. That's what I feel is what we're lacking, but I may be wrong.

The other thing that gets on my nerves is fans who write players off when they're in bad form - again this is based on Diedhiou's run at the minute, but I can't think of a single member of the squad that hasn't been written off by fans as not good enough at some point during their time here. Football is so often a game of tiny details, and players can have bad games for so many reasons - the game not suiting the way they play, opposition playing a blinder, just recently coming back from injury, low on confidence, playing in an unfamiliar role - it's almost never "they're just not good enough". You can be unhappy with how a player played, but it often feels like people don't want players to succeed once they've decided they're not good enough for the club - Bailey Wright, Magnusson, Diony as prime examples. Again, this is your choice, but it's one of the reasons I don't go on here too often when we're in bad form, as the vitriol towards those who make mistakes I find ridiculous sometimes. 

That's all really. Just another person who's happy with some things, unhappy with others. I'm personally fine with how we're approaching the season and our general business model, as I'd rather we didn't  go to the Premier League before we're ready, but obviously I'm not happy with how the second half on the season has gone, and after last season, it does look as though a trend is appearing. And that's my opinion. I'll probably come back on here when we next look like winning a game, but until then these were pretty much all my thoughts on where we are right now. 

Big Tone where are you ?

[Luxo Jr.]

Just now, Joe hicks said:

A well reasoned post, and one I agree with completely.  For some it seems promotion at any cost,  tear up the philosophy the minute we are top six, forgetting what got us there in the first place.

January was a gamble (it always is), but I believe we went the right way in continuing to look at it with the probability of being a championship club next season.  Walsh,  like players from last season,  in and out, but will be more prepared for next season. Diony and Kent loans,  nothing really lost., didn't work out, but worth a gamble.

So, steady progress in this league beats the usual struggle of previous years as a second tier club. Two steps forward,  one back it may be. Patience to sustain for me.

Yes, this is my viewpoint too, but I appreciate others' opinion on it too. I completely understand how some will think we've wasted an opportunity - there's a part of me that thinks it too. Just because I'm not against things like our January transfer activity doesn't mean I think there are serious problems with what we've done this season.

It's not that I'm bored of, it's the snarky, repetitive arguments where people let their belief that they're right get in the way of their decency in discussion (not excluding myself from that). It's not fun to read, especially when we're in the form we're in currently.

[Luxo Jr.]

2 minutes ago, Singingsuperstar said:

Mate it wasn't that heated. Difference of opinions is all. We all want what's best for the club and team, we all see it differently. 

City Till We Die. Unlike the players owners management etc! 

No worries.

[Luxo Jr.]

1 minute ago, Major Isewater said:

Big Tone where are you ?

Run out of likes - "Like".

[Singingsuperstar]

1 minute ago, Luxo Jr. said:

No worries.

Ditto mate

[havanatopia]

I can recommend the new Thomas Cook brochure Lux. The City players have already left on their holidays so I can fully appreciate why you feel like doing so too.

[ZiderEyed]

Be sad to see you go as you're a poster whos posts I read frequently.

Hard to disagree with anything you've said.