Known throughout Football as "the Club that always bottles it"

[Merrick's Marvels]

2 hours ago, Anglo-Welsh said:

Agree with you entirely. Always said the club simply don't want Premier football. Club happy in the Championship with everything 'safe' with the accounts ticking over, occasional bouts of excitement and big ticket games, but otherwise just another generic championship side.

If that was the limit of your ambition would you personally chuck over 100 million quid of your own money into the club? Get embroiled in years of fruitless negotiating over building a new stadium only to be defeated by a handful of nimbys? Undaunted, go through the whole process again to re-develop most of our existing ground? Revamp our scouting, the academy, all the ancilliary support staff behind the scenes - analysts, medics, drones. Yes, drones and all sorts of other toys for all the good they're doing our annoying manager!

I'm no Lansdown apologist - far, far from it - but personally I wouldn't bother with any of that if all I wanted was to finish 12th in the Championship every year.

So I see where you're coming from but think your putting two and two together and getting five.

[CHIPLEY RED]

Not sure we are known as bottlers. Yes we have given some impressive leads away over the past couple of seasons but I think that's more game management than bottling. On Saturday I think it was over confidence that done us. IMO if we had bottled it we would have paniced, drop deep and not been able to hold out. I thought we got casual because we were on top and paid the price. We could and should have won that game by 3 or 4 goals

[BlueDredd]

13 hours ago, City Rocker said:

Well, nobody thinks about us that much, although the same can be said for the likes of Huddersfield and Bournemouth and look where they are now.

If you're after a football team that no one has any regard for whatsoever, then let me present the English league's most mediocre ever club...Bristol Rovers. 

However, when I read the thread title and the word 'bottlers' I just thought 'Cardiff City'. 

I'm sure that's just down to the period we had under Dave Jones pre 2012. We bottled it twice...

I'd say BCFC are the bigger bottlers here 

[BlueDredd]

14 hours ago, southvillekiddy said:

People have said this to me. In my opinion based on watching City for 50 years it's justified. Maybe it's a new idea to you. Can you explain why the 6th biggest City in England does not have Premiership football?

My essential point is that BCFC do not have the resolve to play in the Premiership, when we were close to achieving it this season we were weak and failed. You don't have to use the term "bottlers" if you don't want to

Your city is divided in two obviously. Combined, I'm sure you'd have no problem being a regular in the top flight.

Ask the Gas if they fancy an old get together and join forces.

Bristol United.   

[LondonBristolian]

14 hours ago, southvillekiddy said:

Interesting points to come out of our discussion so far mates.

Can I broaden out the debate please and ask you why BCFC is not known? Why have we only had a brief spell at the highest level in our history. Can you suggest how, with all we should have going for us, BCFC might stop bumbling along as we do?

From what I understand, a large about it has been that, by the late 2000s, we are along way behind several of our rivals in terms of the increasing professionalisation of the game. Let's not forget we were one of the last teams to get corporate seating and, much as I quite like us for that and hate corporate seating, it gives us a disadvantage in terms of revenue.

 

The problem is that

a) We aren't going to reverse over a century of history overnight.

b) We need to make some genuine choices about what we want. Lots of fans hate anything that dispenses with tradition - corporate seating, selling naming rights for stadiums, mass sponsorship and commercialisation, the club being run as a business and a corporation rather than as a friendly community football club - but that is also the stuff that - and whether or not we use those resources correctly is another debate - would bring in the resources to make the club one that could challenge in the top flight.

Or we could not do those things - and we would have more of a community feel about the club but it would mean passing up chances to complete financially.

Or we could go even further - sell the club to wealthy overseas investors and bet the house on going for failure or bust. 

These are choices we need to make. But, whether we like it or not, football is now a multi-billion pound industry and you need the resources to compete, if that is what we want to do. What we can't do without being hyprocrites is complain about us not succeeding and complain about the corporatisation of the club. We have to decide which one we want bearing in mind that, even if we continue down the corporate road, there are no guarantees we will succeed.

[Jack Dawe]

17 minutes ago, BlueDredd said:

I'm sure that's just down to the period we had under Dave Jones pre 2012. We bottled it twice...

I'd say BCFC are the bigger bottlers here 

Give us a chance. We're still in our "Dave Jones" phase. Or is our "Trollope" phase? I'm confused. I wonder who our Malkie "Racist" Mc-whatsisname will be? 

[Mr Popodopolous]

12 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

From what I understand, a large about it has been that, by the late 2000s, we are along way behind several of our rivals in terms of the increasing professionalisation of the game. Let's not forget we were one of the last teams to get corporate seating and, much as I quite like us for that and hate corporate seating, it gives us a disadvantage in terms of revenue.

 

The problem is that

a) We aren't going to reverse over a century of history overnight.

b) We need to make some genuine choices about what we want. Lots of fans hate anything that dispenses with tradition - corporate seating, selling naming rights for stadiums, mass sponsorship and commercialisation, the club being run as a business and a corporation rather than as a friendly community football club - but that is also the stuff that - and whether or not we use those resources correctly is another debate - would bring in the resources to make the club one that could challenge in the top flight.

Or we could not do those things - and we would have more of a community feel about the club but it would mean passing up chances to complete financially.

Or we could go even further - sell the club to wealthy overseas investors and bet the house on going for failure or bust. 

These are choices we need to make. But, whether we like it or not, football is now a multi-billion pound industry and you need the resources to compete, if that is what we want to do. What we can't do without being hyprocrites is complain about us not succeeding and complain about the corporatisation of the club. We have to decide which one we want bearing in mind that, even if we continue down the corporate road, there are no guarantees we will succeed.

Most definitely- your first line/paragraph. That's what people perhaps sometimes miss when we talk about commercial revenue, corporate facilities- yes it's an improvement, yes it's a step forward in ability to compete, but plenty of clubs at this level- let alone the PL- have been well ahead of us in this area for years, until recently. It's merely evening a deficit as opposed to stealing a march. People think Leeds don't have significant commercial revenue generating facilities? Events? Derby, Villa, Ipswich, Middlesbrough, Sunderland- most clubs with a new ground built or significantly redeveloped in the 90's in fact.

Though, I'm not sure how much of the 'community feel about the club' thing still holds tbh. It's quite business like now, isn't it?

[Wanderingred]

The only time a Bristol City side could be rightfully called "bottlers" was the 2004 Danny Wilson side. That team threw away a promotion that was right there for the taking 100% and it's fair to say that they "bottled it"

Otherwise, I don't think the term is fair.

We just have a comfort zone of somewhere between 15th in this division and 9th in the league below. We have regularly achieved our goals inside this area, be it promotion to this league or survival in this. When we rise higher though, we seem to get stage fright and lack the cool headedness, experience and ability to keep it going. Hence our two best finishes in this generation (9th in 1991 and 4th in 2008) quickly went sour.

We need an experienced head in charge, proper footballing people behind the scenes and directors willing to make brave decisions. We've never had that and until we do, we will continue to freeze when we hit these dizzy heights.

[E.J.Thribb]

31 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

From what I understand, a large about it has been that, by the late 2000s, we are along way behind several of our rivals in terms of the increasing professionalisation of the game. Let's not forget we were one of the last teams to get corporate seating and, much as I quite like us for that and hate corporate seating, it gives us a disadvantage in terms of revenue.

 

The problem is that

a) We aren't going to reverse over a century of history overnight.

b) We need to make some genuine choices about what we want. Lots of fans hate anything that dispenses with tradition - corporate seating, selling naming rights for stadiums, mass sponsorship and commercialisation, the club being run as a business and a corporation rather than as a friendly community football club - but that is also the stuff that - and whether or not we use those resources correctly is another debate - would bring in the resources to make the club one that could challenge in the top flight.

Or we could not do those things - and we would have more of a community feel about the club but it would mean passing up chances to complete financially.

Or we could go even further - sell the club to wealthy overseas investors and bet the house on going for failure or bust. 

These are choices we need to make. But, whether we like it or not, football is now a multi-billion pound industry and you need the resources to compete, if that is what we want to do. What we can't do without being hyprocrites is complain about us not succeeding and complain about the corporatisation of the club. We have to decide which one we want bearing in mind that, even if we continue down the corporate road, there are no guarantees we will succeed.

 

Nail hit squarely on the head. 

[TV Tom]

17 hours ago, City Cat said:

Yup, indeed.....and I can remember in the early 70's, City fans in the East End chanting "Dicks Out!!" (No weird perverse pun intended) Bit like those calling for LJ's blood at present.

I also remember Newcastle fans singing “Cox out” it wasn’t the same game was it?

[JamesBCFC]

17 hours ago, ChippenhamRed said:

An awful lot of conjecture here. We are not known throughout football for anything in particular. We are unremarkable.

It's remarkable how unremarkable we are.

[hollydog]

18 hours ago, LondonBristolian said:

Speaking from the viewpoint of a Bristol City fan living outside of Bristol, I can promise you the original post is not true at all. Tottenham are known as the club that always bottles it. Maybe fans with a bit more of an in-depth knowledge of British football might suggest Derby or Leeds. But I can pretty much guarantee you that, if you asked 100 random football fans who "the club that always bottles it are", nobody would say Bristol City. And anyone who thinks otherwise is massively overstating how famous and high-profile we are to other football fans. We are absolutely definitely not known throughout football as the team that always bottle it.

Generally we are a club nobody thinks about at all. Where we are, we're thought of the team who "maybe play in red or is it the blue and white quarters?", for a brief period earlier in the season we were thought of  as the team who knocked Man Utd out of the cup. But, whilst people find it strange Bristol has never had a top flight football team, very few people think of us as being "bottlers" because very few people think we are a team that should be in the Premier League. Had we got to the play-offs, people would have felt we were overachieving and we'd probably be pleased just to be taking part. 

And, much as I hate that, it's hard to blame people. We've spent most of the last two decades in League One and barely troubled the top half of the Championship in that time. It's preposterous to think that people think we always throw away promotion to the Premier League because it's only twice decades that we have got close enough. Granted, there was a point in the early 2000s where we may well have been known as the team that always screwed up promotion from League One (or Division Two or whatever it was then). Maybe some fans think Bristol City should be in the Premier League. Certainly I think Bristol should have a top-flight football team. But, earlier this season and 2007/2008 aside, we have done nothing to suggest we deserve that to be us. Where we should be is pretty much where we are, and where we'll stay until we prove we deserve otherwise. 

Yes - having lived in the midlands and the north west for 20 years until fairly recently this is a pretty good summary of the way others feel about us. 

[slartibartfast]

It was funny how the commentator (after Man U ) said "Bristol City..... a Premier club in waiting!"

He should have added a ryder.........waiting for a decent manager and an owner with enough gumption/balls to just go for it !

[Chairman Mao]

21 hours ago, JBFC II said:

There's only one universally known bottlers and that's Derby, we haven't quite hit their levels yet... 

True, though save for a bribed ref they might have won the European Cup! Could be worse...

[REDOXO]

We may or may not be universally thought of as bottle jobs. However we are undoubtedly in or adjacent to that category!

[Mr Popodopolous]

Derby in recent times.

Indeed, I'm reading The Game currently and the title of the piece in a regular column this week?

" 'Bottlers' tag merited for a side who look set to miss out on the play-offs again"

[Crisis what Crisis ?]

12 hours ago, nick jones of hereford said:

We won both the Anglo Scottish Cup and the Welsh Cup. There’s a (somewhat theoretical) argument that we are the only club that could claim to be Champions of Britain 

 

Don't forget the Gloucester Cup !.....blimey throw in the Watney Cup and it would be 'who's who ' of pointless competitions . The thing that separates a cup triumph from a successful promotion campaign is.....CONSISTENCY .  Ladies and gentlemen i give you this season.....

[Jack Bailey]

Angry fans labelling our players as bottlers - not having that!!

For anyone that has ever played football, form and performances dip throughout a season. Throw, cup runs, injuries, overuse, dressing room/Gaffer stuff and confidence into the equation and you get poor runs and frustrating games - and they come just at the wrong time. Each and every player does not go out onto the pitch with the intention of 'bottling it', nor do they intend to piss us off. It's football, it happens. Yes, some in the squad seem to have tailed off, others seem distracted and not enough of them are up for a good scrap a la Fulham and Millwall.....but to call them bottlers?.....nah not having it!!!

COYR

[Alan Dicks' Barmy Army]

53 minutes ago, June Bailey said:

Angry fans labelling our players as bottlers - not having that!!

For anyone that has ever played football, form and performances dip throughout a season. Throw, cup runs, injuries, overuse, dressing room/Gaffer stuff and confidence into the equation and you get poor runs and frustrating games - and they come just at the wrong time. Each and every player does not go out onto the pitch with the intention of 'bottling it', nor do they intend to piss us off. It's football, it happens. Yes, some in the squad seem to have tailed off, others seem distracted and not enough of them are up for a good scrap a la Fulham and Millwall.....but to call them bottlers?.....nah not having it!!!

COYR

What you have basically described is a team of bottlers !

A dip in form is not going from 2nd to 11th and only winning 4 games out of 20 !!!!

A dip in form is where someone has one or two bad games

[Alan Dicks' Barmy Army]

4 hours ago, Badger08 said:

We are the 11th most successful club in the whole of the football league when it comes to promotions, with a total of 23. 

We also hold the record for winning the LDV vans trophy thing. Winning it 3 times.

Hardly great achievements, but we certainly aren't bottlers.

Winning trophies in the bottom end of the pyramid isn't really something to get too excited about

[Anglo-Welsh]

22 hours ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

If that was the limit of your ambition would you personally chuck over 100 million quid of your own money into the club? Get embroiled in years of fruitless negotiating over building a new stadium only to be defeated by a handful of nimbys? Undaunted, go through the whole process again to re-develop most of our existing ground? Revamp our scouting, the academy, all the ancilliary support staff behind the scenes - analysts, medics, drones. Yes, drones and all sorts of other toys for all the good they're doing our annoying manager!

I'm no Lansdown apologist - far, far from it - but personally I wouldn't bother with any of that if all I wanted was to finish 12th in the Championship every year.

So I see where you're coming from but think your putting two and two together and getting five.

You may be right mate, but I just see a team who was playing well, in-form, played brilliantly against Prem oppositon in the cup, then collapsed to relegation form conveniently after Mark Ashton, then Johnson, essentially said to the press that we're not ready to be Premier League.