Full backs

[The Bard]

A lot has been made of our attacking style and how our full backs  are a key part of it.  However, the truth is our best performances have been when we've had proper defenders playing at full back.  LJ's determination to remove Maggers at every opportunity (he even did when we were 1-1 away to Man City to bring on Walsh FFS) was counter productive.   Tactically, having 2 proper defensive full backs allowed more fluidity and adaptability in front of them, particularly when we were playing Bobby and Paterson as strikers.  Remove the solidity in defence and the fluidity in front of it turns quickly into flimsiness.  If you want adaptability, it must be based on something solid. 

When you consider that Bradley Wright played in the Confederations Cup last summer and more or less went straight into pre-season, and then travelled to Australia in September, October and November for World Cup qualifiers, the decision to loan Vyner out and not recruit someone to cover right back was utter insanity. Wright was inevitably going to miss games at some point.  

[Bar BS3]

I’d have Wright back in at RB all day long. Not so sure about Mags at LB. 

[BITW]

We have problems in both full back positions for sure. I rate Bryan but you’ll never convince me that he’s a LB! Gets caught out countless times most games and gets away with it some of the time because he has the pace to make a recovering tackle and the fans lap it up and applaud, missing the fact he was incorrectly positioned to begin with. Funny how his standout performances this season have come from LM. 

As for RB, I’m not sure Pisano is the answer going forward so you’d hope that would be a key area to strengthen in the summer. 

[Swede]

Bradley Wright? Isn't he a comedian?

On current form Josh Brownhill or Korey Smith are our best right backs.

Bailey Wright has done admirably there up until recently.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing but IMO a lot of our problems since Christmas stems from both full back areas.

[Lrrr]

17 minutes ago, The Bard said:

 LJ's determination to remove Maggers at every opportunity (he even did when we were 1-1 away to Man City to bring on Walsh FFS) 

You mean when we were struggling with their numbers in the middle of the pitch and taking Mags off to move Bryan to LB, allowed Pato to move out wide and let us to play with 3 CM's. In a game where we were 30 seconds from drawing against the now premier league champions, wrong game to pick to make your point really. 

[The Bard]

1 minute ago, hodge said:

You mean when we were struggling with their numbers in the middle of the pitch and taking Mags off to move Bryan to LB, allowed Pato to move out wide and let us to play with 3 CM's. In a game where we were 30 seconds from drawing against the now premier league champions, wrong game to pick to make your point really. 

Absolute rubbish.  The change weakened us defensively and led directly to Guardiola bringing on Walker at RB and moving Sane to the right and concentrating attacks down their right to exploit us. The ball into the box for the winner came from that area after extended build up play that exposed Paterson's defensive weakness.  If we'd wanted another CM, we should have hooked Paterson. 

[Davefevs]

25 minutes ago, The Bard said:

A lot has been made of our attacking style and how our full backs  are a key part of it.  However, the truth is our best performances have been when we've had proper defenders playing at full back.  LJ's determination to remove Maggers at every opportunity (he even did when we were 1-1 away to Man City to bring on Walsh FFS) was counter productive.   Tactically, having 2 proper defensive full backs allowed more fluidity and adaptability in front of them, particularly when we were playing Bobby and Paterson as strikers.  Remove the solidity in defence and the fluidity in front of it turns quickly into flimsiness.  If you want adaptability, it must be based on something solid. 

When you consider that Bradley Wright played in the Confederations Cup last summer and more or less went straight into pre-season, and then travelled to Australia in September, October and November for World Cup qualifiers, the decision to loan Vyner out and not recruit someone to cover right back was utter insanity. Wright was inevitably going to miss games at some point.  

Lots of sense there Shakey!!

During that run I think a lot of us (me included) focussed on the Pato/Bobby (double little ‘uns) pairing, but it was also key that we had 4 defenders, and in some respects 4 CBs.

I mentioned before that we then attacked as a 6 (4 midfielders and 2 up top) most of the time, but not exposed in any holes left by full-backs.  It’s probably not my favourite way, I like overlapping full-backs, but it was very effective.

I remember Fulham at home in our first season back up.  Every time Bennett, Ayling or both ventured forward, Fulham’s Dembele peeled into the left channel and destroyed us with clever, quick passing from Tunnicliffe, Cairney and McCormack.  You don’t get that with a defensive back 4.  Liverpool’s Eufa cup win under Houllier was based on 4 CBs....Babbel (Markus not Ryan), Henchoz, Hyypia and Carragher.  Babbel has a great engine and sometimes ventured forward, but in essence all 4 stayed home.  In front of them they had the likes of a young Gerrard, Murphy, McAllister, Hamaan, Smicer, Berger, Barmby and up top, Owen and Heskey and Fowler, plus Jari Litmanen.  Whoever the 6 were, they played a lovely brand.

We looked pretty solid at times this season...unfortunately at others we’ve looked ragged.

[Carey 6]

14 hours ago, Swede said:

Bradley Wright? Isn't he a comedian?

No you're thinking of Bailey Walsh

[The Batman]

next year, our Full Backs will be Vyner and Kelly.

The Cafu and Maldini of the Championship.

[phantom]

14 hours ago, Swede said:

Hindsight is a wonderful thing but IMO a lot of our problems since Christmas stems from both full back areas.

Completely agree @Swede Bryan is a long way off the player he can be - he seems to have a problem concentrating for the whole game recently, the number of times he drifts away from his marker is shocking.

As for the other side, we've basically been plugging a round hole with a square peg for most of the season

[Chicken George]

14 hours ago, The Bard said:

A lot has been made of our attacking style and how our full backs  are a key part of it.  However, the truth is our best performances have been when we've had proper defenders playing at full back.  LJ's determination to remove Maggers at every opportunity (he even did when we were 1-1 away to Man City to bring on Walsh FFS) was counter productive.   Tactically, having 2 proper defensive full backs allowed more fluidity and adaptability in front of them, particularly when we were playing Bobby and Paterson as strikers.  Remove the solidity in defence and the fluidity in front of it turns quickly into flimsiness.  If you want adaptability, it must be based on something solid. 

When you consider that Bradley Wright played in the Confederations Cup last summer and more or less went straight into pre-season, and then travelled to Australia in September, October and November for World Cup qualifiers, the decision to loan Vyner out and not recruit someone to cover right back was utter insanity. Wright was inevitably going to miss games at some point.  

Spot on Bard. Full backs have been the biggest weakness post-Xmas. Wright did ok there for a while but you can’t expect him to sustain performances there for the whole season. Bryan as a LB is awful. So both FB positions have been our weak spot. 

Kelly replaces Bryan every day of the week for me. But what to do about RB. Wright won’t wanna be there again next season and Pisano is awful. Vyner is more a CB so I think we have a transfer priority for the summer - a right back who can defend.