Nogbad the Bad Posted May 9, 2018 Report Share Posted May 9, 2018 26 minutes ago, Davefevs said: What if it were Pack or Baker? What, might have fallen out with LJ, or your theory of indiscipline by one or two causing ructions in the squad? Who knows, maybe, but there are others whose lacklustre performances and general demeanour on the pitch since January give cause for concern as to what exactly their problem might have been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted May 9, 2018 Report Share Posted May 9, 2018 9 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said: What, might have fallen out with LJ, or your theory of indiscipline by one or two causing ructions in the squad? Who knows, maybe, but there are others whose lacklustre performances and general demeanour on the pitch since January give cause for concern as to what exactly their problem might have been. Yeah possibly. Wilbs used to be the man to maintain standards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havanatopia Posted May 10, 2018 Report Share Posted May 10, 2018 4 hours ago, billywedlock said: Until we have someone in charge who has the gravitas and charisma and natural leadership skills required , we will limp forward as we are . LJ nice chap, clearly has some coaching potential , but leader of the gang, not a hope. Bill, you got me thinking squire.. Would you say any of GJ, McInnes, SOD, Tin, Millen, or Cotts had more than two of those? Personally I don't think any of them possessed more than 2. What about LJ? You could say he has charisma I suppose. Does he have natural leadership skills? We don't really know but assume he must or should have. Gravitas? I doubt it. So, can we say he has two of the three as well, if we are being a little kind. Who was the last City manager to possess it and have all three? Joe Jordan, before him Terry Cooper and probably before him Alan Dicks although he had to work on the gravitas bit and I would say that is, anyway, something that can be overcome with excellent charisma. City have not gone for an ex high profile player like Jordan or Cooper since Jordan. There are a number of 30 or 40+ aged players either retired or about to retire who have done their coaching badges who would be potentially very wise choices. We all know who they are and we all also know that each and every one of them would be swayed to fit into the City philosophy. Frank Lampard being one; don't scoff, remember folks, there are only 92 football league clubs and hundreds of out of work managers. City are an extremely attractive proposition for anybody seeking a manager job and I mean anybody. Should the time come this autumn and City are found languishing and the moans become heckles and the heckles become outright terrace rebellion SL should open his mind to such thinking. In fact he should already be doing it to ensure a seamless progression. Imagine a Lampard and Terry on the touchline with Ferdinand as another coach. Cost a small fortune? They are already loaded so probably not and what is a few million each as bonuses when the prize is £120 million for the club: they are given a brief to get City into the Premier League inside a season and a half tops and they make their careers in management overnight. The shirt and marketing endorsements City would get from such a team, and there could be other of similar ilk, would pay for the recruitment two times over. They get poached by Chelsea or Man U; who cares. SL spends £45 million on the stadium and bails the club out to the tune of £10 million each season, give or take, in write off-able Director loans, sanctions millions on development players and yet entrusts lower league experienced coaches and finance chaps to recruit, manage and develop. On paper it sounds very odd. Rome was not built in a day and he knows far more than we all do, observing from the touchline, about his management and coaching team at the helm. They have shown relative glimmers and a few consistent periods of their ability. At the same time they have also shown their ineptness in turning a bad run or buying consistently or managing what seems open nonchalance on the pitch. Juxtaposing the investment with what everyone acknowledges is the rookie crew, on the face of it and, crucially, after analysis, seems folly. I cannot think of any other business or, more pertinently, any other club who would marry these poles apart factors. City, crucially, now have the facilities, they have the stability and they can pay, we know that much, yet they choose a team with no Championship experience. Its an incredibly bold move by SL. As of now I do not think he has been proven wrong but he has not been proven right either. And considering this is fairly unchartered waters for any club the chances of success, certainly in the short term, I think are less than 40% and I am trying to be optimistic. I do hope we do not waste another year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Hunt-Hertz Posted May 10, 2018 Report Share Posted May 10, 2018 7 hours ago, cidered abroad said: The mood of the supporters near me in S22 has changed lately with many now openly expressing their dissatisfaction with Johnson. And listening to others while leaving the stadium, I could hear more comments which were the same. A small selection but the mood is changing. Four months with only four wins and support for him is dwindling. As for Mccarthy, I can see us with a team of coaches, none of whom achieved much as players and all three have very little experience as coaches. A wiser head around the place may be what we need to get more consistent results. Mccarthy has been there, done it successfully at all levels. There's also another very wise one, Joe Jordan, who lives just over a mile from the stadium, who might be able to help our coaches find ways to stop this boom and bust that is having a really negative effect on the Club and supporters. Changing a manager / head coach is not necessarily the best route but we clearly need to do something different otherwise a bad start in August could end up as a total disaster. McCarthy/ Big Joe combo sounds good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted May 10, 2018 Report Share Posted May 10, 2018 1 hour ago, Juan Kerr said: McCarthy/ Big Joe combo sounds good. £50 to the first player to tell them to ‘FO’ from the middle of the pitch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted May 10, 2018 Report Share Posted May 10, 2018 20 hours ago, BRISTOL86 said: I’m getting off tangent here re BCFC and more into general musing but I think the role of the manager is grossly overplayed by the media. The 11 on the pitch collectively have a considerably bigger impact on the outcome of a game than the man in the dugout. We have seen a side who seemed fearless, passionate and committed in everything they do go instantly to a team playing with complete fear and what could easily be read as almost complete apathy. That ‘light switch’ moment can be traced almost to the minute back to Fielding’s dismissal against Wolves. What causes that? I don’t believe for a minute that overnight the players/managers became poor, we had a team/manager who were delivering some of the best football a generation has seen - let’s be honest it wa truly sublime at its best - to some of the most dismal and turgid football ever witnessed. Physcology? I keep harping on about that red card vs Wolves. There was an almost visual draining of belief amongst the players, and fans that night. It was like they thought ‘we’ve had a good run but let’s not kid ourselves any more’ That’s where an experienced manager will earn his crust in ensuring that doesn’t become a hangover...but I don’t believe for a minute Johnson turned round and said ‘well that’s that over lads....at least you tried’ Ultimately I don’t know what the answer is. Its no more sensible to me to look at the latter half of the season in isolation as the first half. ‘We have a terrible manager’ now is as nonsense as ‘we have an amazing manager’ was in December. The reality is somewhere in between. For me the players are a considerable part of the capitulation and it’s no more fair to lay the blame solely at Johnson than it is to lay it solely at the players. Again the grey area between the extremes is normally the reality. We can only hope that we now genuinely learn from a hard experience. Looking to the positives, at least these hard learning experiences are happening at the top end of the table than the bottom end like previously. Whether we like it or not that’s progress. The real acid test is next season. Expectations have changed and a mid table-higher bottom half finish will be deemed a failure The role of the Manager is not underplayed. The team and the way it plays is a reflection of the Manager. The players attitude is a reflection of the Manager. The mind set of the players is the Managers responsibility, he affects that mind set through making sure players are physically, tactically, technically and that includes mentally prepared. Self belief, self discipline, building team toughness, building resilience to set backs should be part of Lee Johnsons training, and it is part of what he should be recruiting in his signings to bolster his squad. One player can have a poor attitude, and indeed in hopeless cases a man like Bill Beswick (psychologist) working at City can also intervene and highlight this player has to go in the interests of all. Collective poor performance, collective anxiety HAS to be the responsibility of the Manager. It is what he is there to Manage. Your question about what causes that? Well it was not the game v Wolves. It cannot be. Because each player, each every one us are not wired the same. People have this impression that squads and teams are soft, that one is hard ... It is a nonsense, within a squad there will be differing personalities and players with mindsets that are consistent two up or two down ... We are different. It is interesting that Bill Beswick is working with Lee Johnson because Mr Beswick feels that the greatest challenge a team has is the Coach/Manager being the teacher , being the person who installs these values of mental toughness, their strategies and the culture to underpin them to deal with adversity ... That will be Mr Johnson's role not the players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted May 10, 2018 Report Share Posted May 10, 2018 8 minutes ago, Cowshed said: The role of the Manager is not underplayed. The team and the way it plays is a reflection of the Manager. The players attitude is a reflection of the Manager. The mind set of the players is the Managers responsibility, he affects that mind set through making sure players are physically, tactically, technically and that includes mentally. Self belief, self discipline, building team toughness, building resilience to set backs should be part of Lee Johnsons training, and it is part of what he should be recruiting in his signings to bolster his squad. One player can have a poor attitude, and indeed in hopeless cases a man like Bill Beswick (psychologist) working at City can also intervene and highlight this player has to go in the interests of all. Collective poor performance, collective anxiety HAS to be the responsibility of the Manager. It is what he there to Manage. Your question about what causes that? Well it was not the game v Wolves. It cannot be. Because each player, each every one us are not wired the same. People have this impression that squads and teams are soft, that one is hard ... It is a nonsense, within a squad there will be differing personalities and players with mindsets that barely change two up or two down and some will have their own coping strategies. It is interesting that Bill Beswick is working with Lee Johnson because Mr Beswick feels that the greatest challenge a team has is the Coach/Manager being the teacher , being the person who installs these values of mental toughness, their strategies and the culture to underpin them to deal with adversity ... That will be Mr Johnson role not the players. Interesting read Cowshed Is Bill Beswick the Sports psychologist we use ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted May 10, 2018 Report Share Posted May 10, 2018 1 minute ago, BobBobSuperBob said: Interesting read Cowshed Is Bill Beswick the Sports psychologist we use ? Yes ... And if people say he must be crap ... He has worked with Premier League clubs and players like Jamie Carragher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted May 10, 2018 Report Share Posted May 10, 2018 7 minutes ago, Cowshed said: Yes ... And if people say he must be crap ... He has worked with Premier League clubs and players like Jamie Carragher. Thanks Not sure on your view and I accept it’s something that’s popular in the modern game and should be considered (fine margins etc) but I listened to an interesting debate the other day where Gordon Strachan and a Ex top player (Bellamy I think ) were discussing the work and use of Sports psychologists Hes not been a great manager so possibly not a good example but Strachan said he tried it for a while at Southampton but quickly realised that the players were looking at HIM to be the leader , and to be their ‘psychologist’ football, wise The player confirmed this saying it’s the manager they look to , on the training pitch , at the hotel, in the changing room to lead or be their psychologist , especially in tough times If that’s true then maybe the sports psychologists should be doing the vast majority of his work with / helping the HC to fulfill that role, rather than directly to the players Whether that’s achievable with someone who isn’t a leader I’m not sure (I don’t say that in reference to LJ but I’m not sure he is that ‘leader’) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted May 10, 2018 Report Share Posted May 10, 2018 22 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said: Thanks Not sure on your view and I accept it’s something that’s popular in the modern game and should be considered (fine margins etc) but I listened to an interesting debate the other day where Gordon Strachan and a Ex top player (Bellamy I think ) were discussing the work and use of Sports psychologists Hes not been a great manager so possibly not a good example but Strachan said he tried it for a while at Southampton but quickly realised that the players were looking at HIM to be the leader , and to be their ‘psychologist’ football, wise The player confirmed this saying it’s the manager they look to , on the training pitch , at the hotel, in the changing room to lead or be their psychologist , especially in tough times If that’s true then maybe the sports psychologists should be working with / helping the HC to fulfill this role Whether that’s achievable with someone who isn’t a leader I’m not sure (I don’t say that in reference to LJ but I’m not sure he is that ‘leader’) And that is correct. The Manager is their everything. Managers are the great communicators. Managers cannot be the font of all knowledge for everything and be everywhere micro managing hence they employ analysts, nutritionists, physios ... Psychologists. Psychologists can offer advice and ideas on tools to use with individuals and teams and work 121. Psychologists step in as the other experts do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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