Birmingham City Transfer Embargo / Points Deduction (Merged)

[pillred]

3 hours ago, Red Cloud said:

aahhhhhh one of those famous "Transfer Embargos" - give it a month and they'll be signing players all over the shop!

what from asda?

[Major Isewater]

10 hours ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

I don’t agree with that at all...

As Bournemouth boss he won the 3rd division title for them with 97 points

As West Ham boss he took them to a 5th place finish in the premier league whilst developing and giving debuts to Frank Lampard Jnr, Michael Carrick, Glen Johnson, Jermain Defoe, Joe Cole, Rio Ferdinand etc, he also bought Paolo Di Canio

As Pompey boss the first time, he won the division one title for them, took them into the premier league and kept them there whilst the other two clubs that went up with Pompey were relegated after one season. He resigned when a Director of Football was appointed above him and he turned down Mandaric’s pay off offer of a car plus £150k saying he should invest it in Pompey’s youth development programme.

As Saints boss he was unsuccessful and resigned when Clive Woodward was appointed to the coaching staff saying he couldn’t work with him

As Pompey boss the second time, he took them to a 9th placed finish in the premier league, he won the FA Cup for them and was granted the ‘Freedom of Portsmouth’ shortly after leaving 

As Spurs boss he took them to two 4th placed finishes in the premier league, took them into the champions league and was awarded ‘Premier League Manager of the Year’ 

As QPR boss they were relegated under him but he got them promoted back to the premier league the next season, he left when he said his health meant he couldn’t give 100% to the job

And as for the regular ‘he left every club he was manager of in a state of bankruptcy’ claims.....

At Bournemouth he bought players for £1.12m and sold players for £1.77m

At West Ham he bought players for £52m and sold players for £77m

At Pompey the first time, he bought players for £7.65m and sold players for £5.4m

At Saints he bought players for £2.5m and sold players for £16m

At Pompey the second time, he bought players for £68m and sold players for £100m

At Spurs he bought players for £227m and sold players for £230m

So, those figures pretty much show that he hasn’t left any club bankrupt, but the hysterical way people claim he ‘bled clubs dry’ etc is hilarious, the owners of all his clubs sanctioned transfers and salaries, it wasn’t down to Harry. But he spent less than he brought in....and whilst he was at Pompey they made an offer for Papa Bouba Diop which was turned down, the owner Mandaric wanted to make an improved offer but Harry told him not to as the player wasn’t worth the increased fee...and he said at all his clubs he wasn’t involved in the negotiations regarding players’ salaries so he didn’t know what they earned. 

So, you think clubs that employ him are ‘stupid’ - I think his track record of success, and consistently spending less than he brought in, suggests otherwise....

Apart from that , what has Harry Redknapp ever done for the clubs he's worked for ?

[Mr Popodopolous]

7 hours ago, havanatopia said:

Nobody has picked up on your remarks Buster but since Forest are on a spending spree I would think you are correct. Either the Greek guy has legally sorted the mess they were in and satisfied the FL, which sounds like an oxymoron, or he is fully prepared for a fine, down the line, which if QPR is anything to go by will be continually booted into the long grass while they get promoted. Nothing if not an interesting read ahead I feel with this club.

Puzzled as to how Forest made their 32 million profit personally- which enabled them to spend like this!

Still think Football League, Fair Play Panel will be analysing their current spending spree in depth...

That bit tagged on the end is almost certainly from an old article somehow added on. With QPR that was under the old rules so they can, if one is indeed necessary, slap a sanction on quickly IMO. As with Birmingham and their embargo.

[JoeAman08]

Imagine Che Adams is one of their lower earners so if true he’d probably be the last to go. I know Jota is probably overpaid but so many clubs would probably pay him so I’d expect him to be offloaded. Luxury player really

[Monkeh]

I don't get this, a manager can only spend what the board give him to spend, if a club is in financial difficulties then its 99% fault of the board, lets not forget the Birmingham have had money troubles for about 5 years now because of dodgy ownership, long before harry got there, Portsmouth trouble came from selling to dodgy Ukrainians (that or Russians) after harry left,

Bournmouths troubles happened in 2008 17 years after harry left

[Eastside Moonwalker]

If that's the case, I'd make sure LJ looks into signing Cheick N'Doye… Great midfielder with international experience

[Bar BS3]

14 hours ago, You Do The Dziekanowski said:

Another club on the Redknapp blacklist. And people wanted him here  

I clearly remember some posters on here, going to some length to argue in support of Harry Redknapp’s previously questionable dealings. 

I’m sure they will be quick enough to continue their unwavering support of good old ‘Arry..! 

 

[Coxy27]

I found this in an article online, and the author openly admits that the figures are from various news sources at the time of the transfers, rather than any particular insider knowledge, but it still goes to show the ball park wage figures Birmingham were dealing with when it comes to the players they signed last summer.

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

27 minutes ago, Coxy27 said:

I found this in an article online, and the author openly admits that the figures are from various news sources at the time of the transfers, rather than any particular insider knowledge, but it still goes to show the ball park wage figures Birmingham were dealing with when it comes to the players they signed last summer.

 

Seems like it was all in for them then, promotion or bust!

Also goes to show it's not who you sign necessarily (think Championship 'names'), or how much you spend- but how well the money is spent. That's pretty staggering though, that list- in that context it's no surprise they are where they are, thought they were heading for trouble last year tbh.

It's also the first big test of FFP under the current rules- in the sense that this sanction was applied ahead of the event.

By which I mean, the projected accounts for 17/18 were submitted in March or the end of March of this year. Unless I'm badly mistaken it seems to be a sanction off the back of accounts projected by Birmingham in Year 3, added to the historic results of the prior 2 seasons, whereas under the old system it would have been the following year when the accounts were released publicly.

Big game changer IMO.

[downendcity]

37 minutes ago, Coxy27 said:

I found this in an article online, and the author openly admits that the figures are from various news sources at the time of the transfers, rather than any particular insider knowledge, but it still goes to show the ball park wage figures Birmingham were dealing with when it comes to the players they signed last summer.

 

Do players ever get paid a figure like  £7235 per week or is it always nice round figures like £10,000, £25,000 or £40,000?

Perhaps players and agents can only out in multiples of 1000.

[You Do The Dziekanowski]

2 hours ago, Bar BS3 said:

I clearly remember some posters on here, going to some length to argue in support of Harry Redknapp’s previously questionable dealings. 

I’m sure they will be quick enough to continue their unwavering support of good old ‘Arry..! 

 

He offers 1 or 2 seasons of overachievement followed by up to 5 seasons, in some cases more, of worrying if you’ll have a club to support. 

[Monkeh]

3 minutes ago, You Do The Dziekanowski said:

He offers 1 or 2 seasons of overachievement followed by up to 5 seasons, in some cases more, of worrying if you’ll have a club to support. 

again he doesn't write the cheques, the board do at said clubs, he'll only spend what he's given,

[Leveller]

1 hour ago, downendcity said:

Do players ever get paid a figure like  £7235 per week or is it always nice round figures like £10,000, £25,000 or £40,000?

Perhaps players and agents can only out in multiples of 1000.

Depends whether they negotiate in 1950s weekly wages (which it seems they do) or in annual salaries like the rest of the grown up world. It always makes them sound like they’re doing a minimum wage job to me.

[downendcity]

6 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

again he doesn't write the cheques, the board do at said clubs, he'll only spend what he's given,

....but he's the Viv Nicholson of football managers - he'll spend, spend , spend - until it's all gone tin some cases.

[Monkeh]

2 minutes ago, downendcity said:

....but he's the Viv Nicholson of football managers - he'll spend, spend , spend - until it's all gone tin some cases.

yea but he doesn't and never has provided the cash, if clubs get in to financial difficulties its to do with the board of directors and not the clubs football manager,

[Bar BS3]

19 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

again he doesn't write the cheques, the board do at said clubs, he'll only spend what he's given,

He will also make a fortune in payments himself, from signing particular players..!

[Phileas Fogg]

2 hours ago, downendcity said:

Do players ever get paid a figure like  £7235 per week or is it always nice round figures like £10,000, £25,000 or £40,000?

Perhaps players and agents can only out in multiples of 1000.

Yeah that's what I thought was a bit strange about that article. I find it hard to believe that players are all on perfectly round number wages like that - suspiciously, that reads a bit like wages from Fifa 18 where all the wages are nice round numbers.

[You Do The Dziekanowski]

23 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

again he doesn't write the cheques, the board do at said clubs, he'll only spend what he's given,

Managers have a responsibility of the funds they are using. Around 90% of the teams he’s managed have gone or nearly gone into administration shortly after his stint with the club. 1 or 2 and you could say bad luck but that record is horrendous. Off the top of my head he’s only managed Tottenham who haven’t had proplems with wages etc. after he left.

[Merrick's Marvels]

1 hour ago, You Do The Dziekanowski said:

Managers have a responsibility of the funds they are using. Around 90% of the teams he’s managed have gone or nearly gone into administration shortly after his stint with the club. 1 or 2 and you could say bad luck but that record is horrendous. Off the top of my head he’s only managed Tottenham who haven’t had proplems with wages etc. after he left.

Daniel Levi is much too hard-headed to be talked into spending money he hasn't got by the likes of Harry Redknapp! The same can't be said for others who have employed him.   

[Gillies Downs Leeds]

Twitter rumours that they are buying big, in for Assombalonga amongst others. Journalists have conflicting stories about Brum, a couple saying they are in big trouble, others say they are spending big. Which rumour is the truth?

[downendcity]

2 minutes ago, Gillies Downs Leeds said:

Twitter rumours that they are buying big, in for Assombalonga amongst others. Journalists have conflicting stories about Brum, a couple saying they are in big trouble, others say they are spending big. Which rumour is the truth?

Going by Villa, spending big = big trouble, so both could be right!

[Mr Popodopolous]

Apparently they can bid for players... However the EFL can refuse to register them because they're under embargo!

[Guest]

26 minutes ago, Gillies Downs Leeds said:

Twitter rumours that they are buying big, in for Assombalonga amongst others. Journalists have conflicting stories about Brum, a couple saying they are in big trouble, others say they are spending big. Which rumour is the truth?

Possibly too far down the path and the only way out they see is promotion to the PL, and a need to roll the dice one last time. 

[BS4 on Tour...]

....yet Brum are now ‘among the favourites to sign Joe Hart’.......

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/birmingham-city-joe-hart-transfer-14890583

[Mr Popodopolous]

9 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

....yet Brum are now ‘among the favourites to sign Joe Hart’.......

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/birmingham-city-joe-hart-transfer-14890583

They can make their attempt to sign him, but if they are embargoed the EFL wouldn't register the player- which could prove to be quite the waste of money for Birmingham! 

[ScottishRed]

On 09/07/2018 at 21:09, BS4 on Tour... said:

I don’t agree with that at all...

As Bournemouth boss he won the 3rd division title for them with 97 points

As West Ham boss he took them to a 5th place finish in the premier league whilst developing and giving debuts to Frank Lampard Jnr, Michael Carrick, Glen Johnson, Jermain Defoe, Joe Cole, Rio Ferdinand etc, he also bought Paolo Di Canio

As Pompey boss the first time, he won the division one title for them, took them into the premier league and kept them there whilst the other two clubs that went up with Pompey were relegated after one season. He resigned when a Director of Football was appointed above him and he turned down Mandaric’s pay off offer of a car plus £150k saying he should invest it in Pompey’s youth development programme.

As Saints boss he was unsuccessful and resigned when Clive Woodward was appointed to the coaching staff saying he couldn’t work with him

As Pompey boss the second time, he took them to a 9th placed finish in the premier league, he won the FA Cup for them and was granted the ‘Freedom of Portsmouth’ shortly after leaving 

As Spurs boss he took them to two 4th placed finishes in the premier league, took them into the champions league and was awarded ‘Premier League Manager of the Year’ 

As QPR boss they were relegated under him but he got them promoted back to the premier league the next season, he left when he said his health meant he couldn’t give 100% to the job

And as for the regular ‘he left every club he was manager of in a state of bankruptcy’ claims.....

At Bournemouth he bought players for £1.12m and sold players for £1.77m

At West Ham he bought players for £52m and sold players for £77m

At Pompey the first time, he bought players for £7.65m and sold players for £5.4m

At Saints he bought players for £2.5m and sold players for £16m

At Pompey the second time, he bought players for £68m and sold players for £100m

At Spurs he bought players for £227m and sold players for £230m

So, those figures pretty much show that he hasn’t left any club bankrupt, but the hysterical way people claim he ‘bled clubs dry’ etc is hilarious, the owners of all his clubs sanctioned transfers and salaries, it wasn’t down to Harry. But he spent less than he brought in....and whilst he was at Pompey they made an offer for Papa Bouba Diop which was turned down, the owner Mandaric wanted to make an improved offer but Harry told him not to as the player wasn’t worth the increased fee...and he said at all his clubs he wasn’t involved in the negotiations regarding players’ salaries so he didn’t know what they earned. 

So, you think clubs that employ him are ‘stupid’ - I think his track record of success, and consistently spending less than he brought in, suggests otherwise....

On a TOTALLY different topic there is a VERY interesting book about football, called Broken Dreams, written by Tom Bowyer.........you may enjoy it.

[chinapig]

5 minutes ago, ScottishRed said:

On a TOTALLY different topic there is a VERY interesting book about football, called Broken Dreams, written by Tom Bowyer.........you may enjoy it.

Seconded. An eye opener.

Edit: Tom Bower I think.

[ScottishRed]

26 minutes ago, chinapig said:

Seconded. An eye opener.

Edit: Tom Bower I think.

Yes, you are right

[Davefevs]

 

13 hours ago, Coxy27 said:

I found this in an article online, and the author openly admits that the figures are from various news sources at the time of the transfers, rather than any particular insider knowledge, but it still goes to show the ball park wage figures Birmingham were dealing with when it comes to the players they signed last summer.

 

Thanks.  Just goes to show (again) the irrelevance of net spend or transfer fees in the context of FFP.  That’s £24m for 14 players, they still need to fund the other half of the squad.

In 16/17, their whole staff budget was £22m, turnover / income was £17m, and they posted £16m losses.  Can’t imagine turnover went up much in a disastrous 17/18 season, and wage bill likely to be £35-40m.

You can see why they might be in big trouble financially too!

[Leveller]

They’ve just released a statement to say the EFL currently won’t agree to let them sign anyone. No sign of any end to the embargo then.