Underwhelmed..

[Esmond Million's Bung]

1 hour ago, Bar BS3 said:

Do you not see that the signings we have made will enable to play players that we already have, good players, more centrally..?

Firstly I agreed with the premise that we have made some great signings but in my opinion those great signings could be all in vain if we do not strengthen central midfield.

Pack, Smith, Hegeler and Brownhill? the central midfield that has failed us in over half of one season and half of last season.

They are good players but totally lack organisation and discipline and that is what what we lack and what is needed.

That is my opinion and time will tell, my prediction is more of the same, winning runs and long poor runs, I would rather see consistency for a change.

 

[RedM]

3 hours ago, downendcity said:

I think the other thing is that there now appear to be a few clubs - what we've regarded as the "big" clubs that we've struggled to compete with on financial terms- for whom financial reality is now starting to bite, so that their financial profligacy is now having ramification both in terms of their solvency but also as far as breaching financial rules is concerned.

The more this happens, the more iI am re-assured that the path that our owner has chosen means that we can continue to build, reinforce and hopefully improve our position long term, rather than risking the consequences of a 5h1t or bust approach, even though this more measured approach might not give the immediate success that many crave. 

I agree. I think in the past signing a ‘name’ was as much a status symbol as wanting their talent (much of which they couldn’t be arsed to show anymore having dropped down from a higher division). It was a look at us, we’ve signed (player) and you haven’t type boast.

Now it seems the clubs like to find young talent and sell them on if they can’t progress with them. They like to say they have found a player and nurtured him and got him to where he is now. Fans are very proud of their players having made it, more so than just buying a name who hasn’t got anything to prove. 

Obviously there are exceptions, Fulham and Wolves (?) have had loans get them into the Premiership for example. But flip the coin and see Villa’s dabble with Terry for a season, he’s gone now and they are financially worse off than before he arrived. Clubs have taken big name managers too, mostly ends in tears ( Warnock is an exception).

Regarding Cardiff, how proud would we be seeing Bobby Reid playing in the Premiership having taught him all he knows ( if it wasn’t for Cardiff, any other team but them).  

I don’t want to be a selling club, I want our best players to stay and get success with us. But right now taking unknown players and seeing how they progress is exciting. In the past we had Tammy who obviously had talent, but I’d never heard of him. Here’s hoping we have another player who will set the Championship alight amongst us right now.

[BS4 on Tour...]

3 hours ago, Roadrunner said:

Now the world cup is over the Premiership transfer market will get very busy.That should have a knock down effect for us, with some exciting loan deals from the likes of Chelsea, Man City and Man u. I always try and be positive.

Premiership? Do you mean Scotland’s top division? There ain’t a division called that in our country, and hasn’t been one for years and years....

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Premiership? Do you mean Scotland’s top division? There ain’t a division called that in our country, and hasn’t been one for years and years....

Does it matter?

[BS4 on Tour...]

12 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Does it matter?

I think attention to detail counts massively....you obviously don’t...yet ‘attention to detail’ is set as such an important pre-requisite by many employers and organisations looking for volunteers....it’s very important...

[downendcity]

59 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Does it matter?

Small margins?    

 

 

[RedRock]

4 minutes ago, downendcity said:

Small margins?    

 

 

It’s only because you’ve used the quote box.

If you read his original quote I think you’ll find they’re standard margins.

 

You’re welcome.

[havanatopia]

16 hours ago, KeepUpLino said:

It’s seems the general consensus on this forum is that we have so far completed some very shrewd business in the transfer market..

 I think we’ve done ok so far, nothing to get excited by that’s for sure.. I’d say we definately need a new GK, CM and a decent  forward.. hope there’s more business to be done 

Am I the only one who’s slightly underwhelmed at the moment?

Tammys coming home, he's coming home!

GK for sure. CM.. don't think one of those is coming; maybe LJ thinks he has enough creativity now. I know most of us have been banging on about creativity and strength in midfield but I believe we will be firstly disappointed but in the months ahead we may find LJ has sorted that problem with what he has got. I seriously hope so anyway.

[The Constant Rabbit]

I'm not sure many people are clamouring for that legendary "marquee" signing tbh.

I think what most of us want is for the money to be spent well.

I shudder to think what Diony and kent cost in wages/fees last season.

O'neil on a reported 35K per week....

2m  just disappeared with Engvall

1.5m  is running around in the lower leagues in the shape of Moore

Another 1m in those small signings either still in non-league, or sacked off.

Everyone chuckled at Big Arnie - but he was 50K - plus say 2k per week for 2 years - thats 250k minimum thrown away to just be a JK buddy.

Madness!

We must have wasted £6-10m in the last couple of years.Possibly more if other players dont work out

 

So, I think all we are asking for is a better return on that money -  £8 -12,000,000 who are worth the cash.

I'd love to see good money spent on a 5-7 yr longevity keeper, and the rest on a quality midfielder.

I see the transfers done so far as solid.

Keeper - new one please, FF out, Max on Loan, Love to see Steele back as #2 (or even O'Donnell - but not on Nov 5th...    )

Defence - I do worry about some injury issues with Hunt, Webster and Baker - but have confidence in the young ones to cover for 2-3 weeks. Wright and Pisano can cover as well if not 1st choice in a position.

Midfield - This is the big one - a Bannan type would boss our mid and turn our others into better players - if someone of the PROVEN quality at champ level like Bannan comes up - just pay it. For those who say "its not your money" - I'd say we will still have Bryan to leave yet, and probably Pack so there's another  £10 - 15m right there.

Bannan, Smith,Walsh,Pato,COD,JB - take your pick + I expect our younger players to step up for the odd game here and there.

And, you know what - I think Jens Hegeler, if we play out from the back properly (see new keeper), with our new more 'cultured' defence, can have a huge role as a creative type. The man can play, and should be a new player this year now injury free.

Forward - I think we will be fine! Nothing else to do here. Fammy  and MD can share the role of boss up top - one starts, the other plays 30 mins - swap the next game. AW,MT,JBrownhill and the new scunny lad can be the "press" - because thats how I see LJ playing next season. Fammy can score 15+, a fit Djuric can get a lazy 10+, and the nippy pressers can chip in 6-8 each. I would expect many more from midfield this year as well.

One up top to keep the oppo defensive line in their own half, a quick second pressing forward to run past, with 2 holding mids, 2 creative running pressing wing/mids/wingbacks, 1 of these 4 a playmaker to join everything up (stay with me here!) and a fluid back 3/4/5 depending on how we perceive the opposition.

So a 3-5-1-1, can easily change to a 5-3-1-1, a 4-3-1-2, or if totally being hammered (and this is what LJ couldn't do last year) a 5-4-1 which keeps its structure, as we have better ball players down back.

None of this will work though without a sweeper type keeper, and a genuine midfield playmaker general.

Of the 2 - the keeper is the key - watch the best sides in Europe, and the keeper is an extra outfield player - no hoofball - and enables the defence to stay further forward, and stop the huge gap we had last season between our midfield and defence - how many goals did we concede from a ball over the top,or an oppo player getting the ball in midfield and finding the 20yrd gap to the first defender which enabled him to build up speed, spot the gap in a frantically back-peddling disorganised defence who didn't know wether to come out or go back, and score.

There were a hell of a lot!

I really hope LJ is as good as he thinks he is - this is his team, clearly chosen for quick,close passing football, constantly looking for the killer outlet ball through the middle or out wide to the breaking high pressing player, with a fluid defence able to quickly push up in support to keep up pressure, or drop back quickly whilst the holding mids get stuck in.

So I'm actually quite happy with what we have so far - I would have kept Mags though, and think Hegeler,Djuric and Taylor are firmly in LJ's plans.

But we don't need "names" now - we just need that Keeper - I'd love Matt Ryan (not a hope I know) - and a Barry Bannan type.

We have the money - we just need to spend it on players who will do exactly what is needed on a consistent basis.

And with £5m+ left from sales, and potentially money to come from Bryan and Pack - I would hope we can find them.

A keeper - it all starts with a keeper. Get that right, and I think we will surprise the shite out of a lot of people next year. With FF, as good a stopper as he has been, the whole playing from the back collapses, as he just isn't that type of player.And its a skill that cant be taught. You either have it or you don't.

We have time, and money - lets just get those 2 and next season could be one to remember for ever!

Comments/thoughts welcome!

 

(I really should stop posting long rants after a big night out on the 'water'     )

 

 

[Phileas Fogg]

19 minutes ago, SX227 said:

I'm not sure many people are clamouring for that legendary "marquee" signing tbh.

This is a good post, but just a couple of points caught my attention. I think there are definitely some people who were very keen on us going after established Championship players. Nothing wrong with that, it's pretty sensible. @tinman85 was very big on this.

For some posters - such as myself - I like the established Championship players we've bought in.. they all look like sensible buys and I can see the logic in all of them.

For other posters though, these players aren't the right established Championship players. For these posters - we should be targeting people like Barry Bannan and other top end Championship players. These would be great signings, but they just aren't realistic.

That's where this idea about a clamour for marquee signings comes from - it's about which side of the fence you are on this issue.

19 minutes ago, SX227 said:

I think what most of us want is for the money to be spent well.

I shudder to think what Diony and kent cost in wages/fees last season.

O'neil on a reported 35K per week....

2m  just disappeared with Engvall

1.5m  is running around in the lower leagues in the shape of Moore

Another 1m in those small signings either still in non-league, or sacked off.

Everyone chuckled at Big Arnie - but he was 50K - plus say 2k per week for 2 years - thats 250k minimum thrown away to just be a JK buddy.

This is all true - January went wrong, O'Neil didn't work out (although I believe it was closer to 25k not 35k then we probably could get Barry Bannan if that's what we'd pay!) and Engvall was terrible waste.. but sometimes transfers will just go wrong. Happens at all levels of football and is hardly exclusive to Bristol City.

Whilst a total of 250k on Garita sounds like a lot, in the scheme of things for a football club at this level it isn't really. I also think whilst we've spent decent amounts on Eliasson and Taylor Moore - they may yet fulfil their potential. Impossible to truly judge them until they've left the club - like Engvall which we can now say was a terrible failure.

19 minutes ago, SX227 said:

So, I think all we are asking for is a better return on that money -  £8 -12,000,000 who are worth the cash.

I'd love to see good money spent on a 5-7 yr longevity keeper, and the rest on a quality midfielder.

I see the transfers done so far as solid.

Agreed

19 minutes ago, SX227 said:

Keeper - new one please, FF out, Max on Loan, Love to see Steele back as #2 (or even O'Donnell - but not on Nov 5th...    )

Defence - I do worry about some injury issues with Hunt, Webster and Baker - but have confidence in the young ones to cover for 2-3 weeks. Wright and Pisano can cover as well if not 1st choice in a position.

Agreed apart from FF out, would like to see him compete with a keeper of equal quality. O'Donnell would be a big downgrade. Steele is fine but i'm sure we can find someone better.

19 minutes ago, SX227 said:

Midfield - This is the big one - a Bannan type would boss our mid and turn our others into better players - if someone of the PROVEN quality at champ level like Bannan comes up - just pay it. For those who say "its not your money" - I'd say we will still have Bryan to leave yet, and probably Pack so there's another  £10 - 15m right there.

Bannan, Smith,Walsh,Pato,COD,JB - take your pick + I expect our younger players to step up for the odd game here and there.

Would love someone like Bannan but I just don't think he's realistic. We'd have loads of competition for him and the wages would be high. We have to find the next Bannan. I wouldn't say it's a given that Pack will leave. Things will speed up after the World Cup but usually if a player is leaving there'd be some rumours by now, especially with just a few weeks of the window left. Pretty sure Bryan will go though.

19 minutes ago, SX227 said:

And, you know what - I think Jens Hegeler, if we play out from the back properly (see new keeper), with our new more 'cultured' defence, can have a huge role as a creative type. The man can play, and should be a new player this year now injury free.

Completely agree - really hope he can show everyone his ability this year. Feel he's probably very good in the right system.

19 minutes ago, SX227 said:

Forward - I think we will be fine! Nothing else to do here. Fammy  and MD can share the role of boss up top - one starts, the other plays 30 mins - swap the next game. AW,MT,JBrownhill and the new scunny lad can be the "press" - because thats how I see LJ playing next season. Fammy can score 15+, a fit Djuric can get a lazy 10+, and the nippy pressers can chip in 6-8 each. I would expect many more from midfield this year as well.

Would like another one really.. 4 will probably be fine, especially if we play 4-3-3, but ideally would like someone else to come in.

 

[ashton_fan]

20 hours ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

We seem to be have a surplus of 10 mil from our dealings so far.

The real problem is it's not always the quality of our midfield, it is the lack of discipline and lack of organisation, many of our problems in CM are caused when instead of one of them both Smith and Pack are both caught out ahead the ball when a move breaks down, that leaves a huge hole to be exploited, they should be covering for each other or somebody needs to tuck in there and that very rarely happens.

Nobody expects the Spanish inquisition but organisation must be our key weapon.

Organisation and discipline must be our 2 key weapons.

Organisation, discipline and quality must be our 3 key weapons.

Organisation, discipline, quality and surprise must be our key weapons.

I'll come back in and start again.

 

 

Although it looks like we've got a "10m surplus" the wage bill deficit is more than that so we can't spend it if we want to balance the books. I think we've done some sensible business and if we need to do more in January we'll have something in reserve, we may need a second keeper but surely O'Leary is old enough to be challenging for that position by now? If we are properly organised and can manage games better than last season there's no reason why we can't challenge near the top again this time, Millwall managed to last year with a much inferior squad to ours.

[Mr Popodopolous]

15 minutes ago, ashton_fan said:

Although it looks like we've got a "10m surplus" the wage bill deficit is more than that so we can't spend it if we want to balance the books. I think we've done some sensible business and if we need to do more in January we'll have something in reserve, we may need a second keeper but surely O'Leary is old enough to be challenging for that position by now? If we are properly organised and can manage games better than last season there's no reason why we can't challenge near the top again this time, Millwall managed to last year with a much inferior squad to ours.

Would we adopt Millwall type tactics though? 

They were by and large (I don't see them replicating their season BTW) a side who thrived without the ball.

If LJ goes that way ,then quite possibly- but nobody we've signed so far (Webster the ball playing centre back a case in point) suggests to me it'll be our preferred set-up/shape.

[ashton_fan]

3 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Would we adopt Millwall type tactics though? 

They were by and large (I don't see them replicating their season BTW) a side who thrived without the ball.

If LJ goes that way ,then quite possibly- but nobody we've signed so far (Webster the ball playing centre back a case in point) suggests to me it'll be our preferred set-up/shape.

I wasn't suggesting we play like Millwall did last year but was just pointing out that it's not always the most expensive squads that succeed in our League. I am happy with our squad and think we'll be able to stick to our attacking style with the players we have, perhaps Huddersfield would be a better example than Millwall of a team that had success without breaking the bank.

[Roadrunner]

10 hours ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Premiership? Do you mean Scotland’s top division? There ain’t a division called that in our country, and hasn’t been one for years and years....

Ok Premier League.

[BS4 on Tour...]

1 minute ago, Roadrunner said:

Ok Premier League.

Apologies for me being a plonker RR...

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 hour ago, ashton_fan said:

I wasn't suggesting we play like Millwall did last year but was just pointing out that it's not always the most expensive squads that succeed in our League. I am happy with our squad and think we'll be able to stick to our attacking style with the players we have, perhaps Huddersfield would be a better example than Millwall of a team that had success without breaking the bank.

Yeah, agree with the principle. Huddersfield is definitely a good example, tended to play decent football too.

I think midtable this year personally, but time will tell- Flint and Reid are big losses though. Plus the ins and outs means yet more churn.

[Super]

If these were all the signings then I would be very worried. I would expect another 3 coming in.

[EnderMB]

I think we've done well so far, but we've fixed holes rather than improved our position. We've done more than enough to survive in this league, and we should almost definitely finish mid-table with a team this strong, but I don't think we've got the individual quality to push towards promotion/playoff places.

For me, that's fine. The key thing for me was ensuring that the Flint/Reid money goes towards ensuring we can pay the necessary wages at this level, cement our position as a Championship team, and to build a platform where we can continuously improve our position.

[downendcity]

This time last year we had virtually no idea that Bobby Reid's fortunes would turn around so dramatically as a result of LJ bringing in the high press style of football. Going back a little while  I well remember the "underwhelming" response to Wilbraham's signing  who had hardly scored a goal in the season's before joining us, yet he turned out to be a great signing.

This world cup has been a bit of a watershed as far as I'm concerned where the successful teams were successful because they were a team rather than being focussed around, or dependant on one player. Despite this trying to disparage England's achievements,  they exceeded most expectations because as a team they were stronger than the 11 individuals and because of the lack of ego within the squad ( and also the manager).

I actually like the way we are going about things, although I also understand that other fans will not want to be patient and give it the time to develop and also have major doubts about LJ ad his ability. I think the lack of "marquee" signings and " big names" is a positive in terms of developing a strong team.

The one area where I think we might benefit from going against the plan, is for an old head who can control and manage games and also organise players out on the pitch. His name has been quoted elsewhere, but a Paul Hartley type player would be ideal. Perhaps O'Neil was that type of player, but his time here was really scuppered by injury. It might be a player the wrong side of 30 and with wage demands that push our budget, but it might be what our young team need and also someone able to interact with LJ during a game when changes need to be made.

 

[ashton_fan]

46 minutes ago, Super said:

If these were all the signings then I would be very worried. I would expect another 3 coming in.

Reported elsewhere that LJ's been told he can only get more in if he sells one or more

[DaveInSA]

14 hours ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

Firstly I agreed with the premise that we have made some great signings but in my opinion those great signings could be all in vain if we do not strengthen central midfield.

Pack, Smith, Hegeler and Brownhill? the central midfield that has failed us in over half of one season and half of last season.

They are good players but totally lack organisation and discipline and that is what what we lack and what is needed.

That is my opinion and time will tell, my prediction is more of the same, winning runs and long poor runs, I would rather see consistency for a change.

 

I like your opinion.

[Super]

2 minutes ago, ashton_fan said:

Reported elsewhere that LJ's been told he can only get more in if he sells one or more

really?

[core321]

On 15/07/2018 at 09:27, KeepUpLino said:

It’s seems the general consensus on this forum is that we have so far completed some very shrewd business in the transfer market..

 I think we’ve done ok so far, nothing to get excited by that’s for sure.. I’d say we definately need a new GK, CM and a decent  forward.. hope there’s more business to be done 

Am I the only one who’s slightly underwhelmed at the moment?

I wouldn't call it shrewd.

Any club willing to let players go to teams in the same division clearly don't rate them. Why would they let them go if they were any good, obviously SW and Derby were quite happy to get rid. Basically we have signed their rejects.

There exception of big money transfers like Flint to borough, but even so why couldn't City persuade him to stay rather than go up north...strange.

City's squad this season is being filled with more average players. City would never be able to replace the likes of Reid or Flint unless massive money and wages were spent.

LJ has proven over the course of last season that his transfers are pretty average to poor. Woodrow, Diony..say no more.

Nottingham Forest will be a hard test first game of the season.

I see a tough season....with LJ making change after change each week without ever finding his best team. But...I doubt he will. 

[PHILINFRANCE]

On 15/07/2018 at 12:22, Fuber said:

I'm withholding an opinion until after the first 5 or so games of the season.

It depends more on how you develop the system to the components. I.e. Wilbs in Cotts' 3-5-2.

The thing that concerns me is that if you look at the teams who do well in this division, they have they have Goalkeepers who can help organise their defence or have good distribution. For example last season, other clubs had keepers such as Ruddy, Etheridge, Johnstone, Randolph, Carson, Maxwell, and Bentley. I like Frankie, but he isn't good enough in all attributes to be a Top Half GK.

Same applying to he midfield. Korey and Pack are great on their day, but we simply lack depth to cover for them and competition never heart anyone. 

If we went in for people like Bialkowski, get somone like Hyndman in on loan . And signed someone like Umut Bozok from Nimes. Id be happy with our transfer business.

An interesting proposition....

As I am sure you are aware, although he has only been with Nîmes for one season (they signed him for peanuts from a non-league team in Marseille), Bozok's goals were intrumental in getting Nîmes promoted to Ligue 1 last season - like Kodjia the season before we signed him, he was the top scorer last season in Ligue 2. 

I am intrigued as to how and why you came up with his name - apart from the obvious reason that he is a promising young goalscorer. 

[Guest]

On ‎16‎/‎07‎/‎2018 at 10:36, downendcity said:

This time last year we had virtually no idea that Bobby Reid's fortunes would turn around so dramatically as a result of LJ bringing in the high press style of football. Going back a little while  I well remember the "underwhelming" response to Wilbraham's signing  who had hardly scored a goal in the season's before joining us, yet he turned out to be a great signing.

This world cup has been a bit of a watershed as far as I'm concerned where the successful teams were successful because they were a team rather than being focussed around, or dependant on one player. Despite this trying to disparage England's achievements,  they exceeded most expectations because as a team they were stronger than the 11 individuals and because of the lack of ego within the squad ( and also the manager).

I actually like the way we are going about things, although I also understand that other fans will not want to be patient and give it the time to develop and also have major doubts about LJ ad his ability. I think the lack of "marquee" signings and " big names" is a positive in terms of developing a strong team.

The one area where I think we might benefit from going against the plan, is for an old head who can control and manage games and also organise players out on the pitch. His name has been quoted elsewhere, but a Paul Hartley type player would be ideal. Perhaps O'Neil was that type of player, but his time here was really scuppered by injury. It might be a player the wrong side of 30 and with wage demands that push our budget, but it might be what our young team need and also someone able to interact with LJ during a game when changes need to be made.

 

The name you have mentioned, Wilbs and being a great signing cannot be argued with, a "great signing" indeed but for every Wilbs, there has been half a dozen or more that were a waste of space and millions in the last few years as well. As you mentioned Wilbs where is he now? still plying his trade elsewhere.

Point being when we do find these "nuggets" they go elsewhere so how the heck can we get a stronger as we persistently go back to square one and never drive on. There may be one of Lees recent batch of recruits that does make his mark on the coming season, but we wont hold onto him for long as we will cash in and "go again"

We don't actually go anywhere, as we seem incapable of even keeping a strong foundation let alone building anything upwards, without knocking it down every season.

How much "time" are you and others prepared to give the powers that be to develop a strong team/squad? and is mid table or worse ok to carry on again next season and the next and the next.

I would say anything out of the top six finish would be a fail as we are surely aiming for that this season....aren't we.