Expectations (Merged)

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

Lower than this season. And a reverse too. I think we'll start poorly and maybe turn things around by the end of season.

That may not be with LJ.

Just my hunch....

That middle line is just a dream LJ will be here next season which ever div we are in.....the die is cast;

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, bengalcub said:

Money he’s spent ? Swear we’ve made more than we have spent .... 

If only SL could rely on net spend as the barometer of his return.  You’re forgetting the £13m of Operational losses he subsidises each season.  Transfer profit (rather than net spend) is what keeps us within the £13m magic FFP figure.  Without selling players our costs massively outweigh our income!

1 hour ago, Monkeh said:

he's spent over 100 million on city, I'm pretty sure we've made nowhere near that

Yep.

[Red-Robbo]

1 minute ago, Bri Stool City said:

That middle line is just a dream LJ will be here next season which ever div we are in.....the die is cast;

Depends how badly we do.  Lansdown has fired "friends" from his companies before, and would do it again if things looked ominous IMO. I don't think another 2016/17 run will be tolerated.

[cidered abroad]

Don't see us as good enough to get in play offs. Mid table all season if we are fortunate. Bad start and anything can happen!

We're Bristol City, I haven't a clue what is going to happen. I dared to dream before last December 30th. And that all ended in misery so why will this year be any different? I saw a post by JoeAman who said very much the same as I feel. Seems like decent incoming business but has reservations about where we'll go with them.

[Bobfish]

For me it is not just down to the ingoing\outgoing of players, but down to what LJ has learnt. We bought players early last season and got them well drilled through pre-season, which helped us implement the high press well in the first half of the season, but when that got found out we were clueless for the second half of the season. Has LJ learnt from this? He appears to have learnt from the transfers, insisting on “having more say on them.” This may just be talk, but the trend from “bargain foreign football-manager database unearthed gems” towards hardworking, fast players based within the championship or the English leagues is an obvious change, a means to shorten the “fitting in the English game/championship”. Purchasing the obviously needed right back is a change too, as is, as yet, a lack of incoming loans and instead making sure the players are our own. January recalls on all our outgoing loans again is a sign he has learnt from the fatigue of last season. What will really inform us as to if he has progressed, is his ability to effect the game once it has started by altering formations and tactics rapidly, rather than too late or not at all. This, as our national team showed, is not an isolated problem, as Southgate unfortunately demonstrated against Croatia – (perhaps this is a problem due to the f.a. teaching of our young coaches, whilst the ability to see the problem and effect it is more due to experience gained by coaches who learnt as understudies to experienced managers, rather than via powerpoint.) Anyway, that is a conversation for another day. If we get a new keeper who enables us to accurately distribute the ball and thus retain possession, especially with the likes of Webster being able to play out from the back, and with the new recruits allowing players to play in their actual positions, brownhill in the centre etc, and if LJ has a plan b and c worked out on the training ground, I can see a top half finish to pushing the playoffs. If, however, LJ has learnt nothing, I believe we will be scrapping around relegation.   

[Dman_Red]

Head says 12th-14th, heart would like us in a similar position to last year (not including the fall from 2nd) with still having a mathematical chance of reaching the play offs going into April.

I'm quite optimistic though. I'm looking forward to actually having an attacking right back who can make the opposition at least think about whether there's going to be an overlap. Webster can hopefully drive forward with the ball in a Harry Maguire type way as it causes all sorts of problems. This also gives the option of freeing up Pack/Smith as they don't have to go back to receive a five yard ball of the centre backs.

Going forward we have a lot more options than last year. Wiemann ideally will replace Reids work rate. O'Dowda/Eisa/Adelakun offer pace that we were missing sometimes last season and their presence allows Paterson to be played more centrally. 

New goalkeeper, Bryan LM, keep Duric and the bookies can take my money on a City top 6 finish!

[RUSSEL85]

8 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

Depends how badly we do.  Lansdown has fired "friends" from his companies before, and would do it again if things looked ominous IMO. I don't think another 2016/17 run will be tolerated.

I agree, just after the season SL did a radio interview, and his tone was clear he didnt want to go through that again (along with with all the fans) . I think he has given LJ benefit of the doubt there where others would not. 

[JBFC II]

1 hour ago, Mtimmy11 said:

Not having a pop but why are we having a transition period,why haven't we built on last season's squad and gone for the playoffs or better this year

We are have lost 2 of the most important players to last seasons squad as well as an international, add to that joe being potentially off. It remains to be seen how the replacements do but I think this is a big transition period for the club, the old faithful are leaving and new, maybe slightly hungrier, players are being brought in

[JBFC II]

1 hour ago, core321 said:

Why is it a transition period? City should be aiming for promotion, or at least the playoffs after messing it up last season.

Does he? This season? Mark Ashton said they didn't plan for promotion last season, so this season must be it? 

Can't see it by losing key players and taking gambles on new signings.

I see a very difficult season and a relegation fight. I see a opposite season to last, City finishing bottom half with a turn around in results in the last few months on the season.

It was always going to be a summer of change. When you get offered 20 million for three players, especially when that 20 million is more than you’d have hoped for, you have to take the money and rebuild slightly. Don’t think any of the signings are gambles (maybe Eisa could be counted as one) though

[YorkshireSection]

57 minutes ago, where's the joy said:

sign a top notch goalie and play joe bryan in midfield, and we will get into the playoffs.

lose Joe Bryan and keep Frankie as No1 and we will disappoint. the spine of the team will always determine the strength

Almost exactly what I was thinking, and although I rate him, Packs new deal looks like a strong indicator that if Joe stays he won't be playing in midfield, which is such a shame.

If Pack & Smith are paired together, again(!), then hopefully it's with a view of playing Brownhill or/and Odowda in the midfield alongside them.

Imho we need a presence inbetween the posts, especially after losing Flint and his aerial dominance. I don't think we will have a problem scoring goals but conceeding them is a worry, with less than 2 weeks until the start of the season are we asking too much for a new keeper to build a successful, communicative relationship with not only a new defence but all those involved in defending set pieces etc, blah, blah, blah

[JamesBCFC]

2 hours ago, RoystonFoote'snephew said:

Although I have Bristolian family, as I’m not from there myself I have not inherited the terminal pessimism that many from the city seem to possess. Top 10. Keep the faith. 

Anyone mentioning relegation is off their tits on something.

[old_eastender]

33 minutes ago, Bobfish said:

For me it is not just down to the ingoing\outgoing of players, but down to what LJ has learnt. We bought players early last season and got them well drilled through pre-season, which helped us implement the high press well in the first half of the season, but when that got found out we were clueless for the second half of the season. Has LJ learnt from this? He appears to have learnt from the transfers, insisting on “having more say on them.” This may just be talk, but the trend from “bargain foreign football-manager database unearthed gems” towards hardworking, fast players based within the championship or the English leagues is an obvious change, a means to shorten the “fitting in the English game/championship”. Purchasing the obviously needed right back is a change too, as is, as yet, a lack of incoming loans and instead making sure the players are our own. January recalls on all our outgoing loans again is a sign he has learnt from the fatigue of last season. What will really inform us as to if he has progressed, is his ability to effect the game once it has started by altering formations and tactics rapidly, rather than too late or not at all. This, as our national team showed, is not an isolated problem, as Southgate unfortunately demonstrated against Croatia – (perhaps this is a problem due to the f.a. teaching of our young coaches, whilst the ability to see the problem and effect it is more due to experience gained by coaches who learnt as understudies to experienced managers, rather than via powerpoint.) Anyway, that is a conversation for another day. If we get a new keeper who enables us to accurately distribute the ball and thus retain possession, especially with the likes of Webster being able to play out from the back, and with the new recruits allowing players to play in their actual positions, brownhill in the centre etc, and if LJ has a plan b and c worked out on the training ground, I can see a top half finish to pushing the playoffs. If, however, LJ has learnt nothing, I believe we will be scrapping around relegation.   

 

what he said...

[cidered abroad]

As far as the personnel and team shape are concerned, I don't have the faintest how we are going to set up at home or away.

I'm also at a loss to see who will play where. If Joe Bryan is still here at LB, LM or CM? Who will be our defensive pair? BW &  Adam Webster or AW and NB. Who is at RB? Pisano, Hunt or Taylor Moore? LB has JB, Kelly or Pisano or Pring? Even Baker if Wright and Webster are the chosen pairing? Where will Jens Hegeler figure if at all? I haven't seen any evidence that we'll play with a back three.

Midfield is just as confused. Three, four or five? Wing backs with three in the centre or two orthodox wingers but brought infield so that we are as narrow as we were last season without wingers to supply crosses for the strikers. Will we still use wingers on the opposite side to their natural foot? A good play sometimes but if they have to go back on their best foot, all momentum is lost, with initiative handed to opposing defence. and while KS and MP are each solid Championship central midfielders, they suffer from lack of pace defensively and lack of goals at the other end. So will only one play at a time? Will Josh B be used in central midfield or get stuck out on the wing? 

Will Weimann be used centrally in midfield, or as a number 10 or up front striker with Fammy? Will Djuric stay or go? WillTaylor ever be fit?  How will Callum be used? Centrally or as a wide one?

I cannot see the wood from the trees at the moment. Maybe as autumn arrives and the leaves drop off, all will become apparent.

Are we really ready for the season that will start with a vengeance on August 4th? 

 

[Grey Fox]

There is two sides to this question, it is not just how/if we have improved, it is also about what the others have done. 

As to relegation i think the likes of Bolton, QPR, Rotherham, Brentford,Ipswich, Millwall, Birmingham and Norwich are all worse than us. 

As to mid table we can match Hull, Preston, Blackburn, both Sheffields, Wigan, Reading and in my view Derby.

There is money at Aston Villa, Forest, Middlesbrough, Swansea, WBA, Stoke and maybe Leeds, but that does not guarantee success.

Can not wait, love this league

COYR

 

 

 

 

 

 

[brad blit]

Optimistically im actually thinking we can come anywhere between 4th and 10th if we can sign a quality goalkeeper.

Start of the window I would have said centre midfield was no1 priority for signing, but I believe signing more wingers and potentially looking more at a 4231 formation will mean Brownhill (and possibly O'Dowda if short) can be used centrally alongside Smith/Pack and his energy will make a big difference.

Iv been impressed so far with our transfer activity, and still have a sneaky suspicion 1 or 2 more may arrive.....

[Wanderingred]

I think this is gonna be a bit of a nothing season if I'm honest. We have a more experienced side than last season but I see very little in the team to get excited by. 13th place with about 60 points. I wouldn't be too disappointed with that, as long as our record isn't something like DWLDDWLWWWWDWDDWWWLWWWWDWWWDDLLLLDDDLLDDLLLLDL

For the record, I predicted 22nd and relegation last season.

[Mr Popodopolous]

22 minutes ago, Grey Fox said:

There is two sides to this question, it is not just how/if we have improved, it is also about what the others have done. 

As to relegation i think the likes of Bolton, QPR, Rotherham, Brentford,Ipswich, Millwall, Birmingham and Norwich are all worse than us. 

As to mid table we can match Hull, Preston, Blackburn, both Sheffields, Wigan, Reading and in my view Derby.

There is money at Aston Villa, Forest, Middlesbrough, Swansea, WBA, Stoke and maybe Leeds, but that does not guarantee success.

Can not wait, love this league

COYR

 

 

 

 

 

 

Think Villa will need to sell quite big to buy, certainly anyone substantial personally.

Wouldn't disagree with your assessment though- unsure Norwich will be in relegation, more likely midtable nothingness I think.Unsure about Brentford being worse either! They played us off the park both games last year.

[ooRya]

A big ask as there are some quality/big teams in this league, but I believe we have a great shout of top 6.

I think people are going to be surprised as to how good our signings have been this summer..........

[Red Exile]

31 minutes ago, cidered abroad said:

As far as the personnel and team shape are concerned, I don't have the faintest how we are going to set up at home or away.

...I cannot see the wood from the trees at the moment. Maybe as autumn arrives and the leaves drop off, all will become apparent.

 

This is exactly how I feel. Could be a great season, or a season of consolidation...I know almost nothing about the new signings and LJ has proved himself capable of competing with the very best and also churning out defeat after defeat...so who knows. I don't see us getting relegated. Looking forward to the opening match.

[Natchfever]

3 hours ago, Red Army 75 said:

So just 11 days to the new kick off. What are people’s thoughts. I’m going for another mid table finish . Anyone tipping us for promotion or the dreaded relegation. 

Cant wait. COYR

Lower mid table maybe 14th but with a more consistent spread of wins draws and losses.

[pillred]

1 hour ago, Red-Robbo said:

Depends how badly we do.  Lansdown has fired "friends" from his companies before, and would do it again if things looked ominous IMO. I don't think another 2016/17 run will be tolerated.

or 2017, 2018.

[Touch_my_butter]

3 hours ago, Dickie Rookes Peak said:

I think SL expects a top six finish 

First and foremost, I think SL expects a well-run club.

This includes selling our assets for the top of their value, buying young up-and-coming players with high resale value, playing attractive football, maintaining a stable management structure, and building a reputation.

League position is secondary. He's working on the foundations of a long-lasting legacy, not a lucky single season in the Premier League.

[Olé]

2 hours ago, BRISTOL86 said:

You think he’s expecting top six?

I just thought his comment at the end of last season in the Radio Bristol interview (which was the boldest I've heard him, and I thought for once really captured the mood of fans after the season had fallen away) was setting quite a clear expectation of further progress as the benchmark.

You've made the point that you hope fans can deal with the reality that it is unlikely (which I agree with), my point is can SL deal with it? He's come out and said something very specific about his expectations and it's exactly the sort of thing Geoff Twentyman will put back to him in a year.

I don't know what SL is expecting, but I know what expectations he has publicly set.

[bcfctim]

I don't think we can really talk about this year as a transitional season. We'll have to sell our best players from time to time in order to be sustainable, everyone in this league does. But the whole point of our approach of buying young and developing is that losing a player or two doesn't cripple us; it's a case of evolving rather than completely rebuilding.

We've already got the next batch ready to step up in their place, the likes of O'Dowda, Brownhill, Kelly. And then the proceeds strengthen the depth of the squad and fund the odd more expensive or experienced replacement (Diedhiou/Baker last year, Webster/Weimann this) as well as the next lot to come through, with the aim to continue progressing. We've lost Kodjia, Tomlin, Abraham and kept moving forward. And I'm sure we'll see more players sold over the next couple of years, it's the reality of life. But if everytime we had to sell someone we went back to lower midtable and had to start from scratch we'd never achieve anything.

Look at Brentford. They've had to sell their best players every summer for the last 5 years or so and they've still maintained a consistent top half challenge. I see no reason we shouldn't look to do the same, or better.

Promotion would be tough this year, it's a strong league and I don't envisage any of the relegated sides being the basket case that Sunderland or to a lesser extent Hull were last season. But I'd hope we could look for a top half finish at least. Somewhere 14th-16th wouldn't be the end of the world but I'd be a bit disappointed, and anything lower would represent a poor season.

[lenred]

1 hour ago, JamesBCFC said:

Anyone mentioning relegation is off their tits on something.

That’s a very big call James. Hope you are right!  Unfortunately I think we are going to struggle this season and will end up just outside the relegation zone.  We just don’t seem to do ‘mid-table mediocrity’ as a club and I can’t see us challenging up the top this season given the quality in the league.  Will be very very happy to be proven wrong of course and see the side gel and for us to fly.  As ever I’m sure it won’t be a dull season whatever happens. 

[BRISTOL86]

11 minutes ago, Olé said:

I just thought his comment at the end of last season in the Radio Bristol interview (which was the boldest I've heard him, and I thought for once really captured the mood of fans after the season had fallen away) was setting quite a clear expectation of further progress as the benchmark.

You've made the point that you hope fans can deal with the reality that it is unlikely (which I agree with), my point is can SL deal with it? He's come out and said something very specific about his expectations and it's exactly the sort of thing Geoff Twentyman will put back to him in a year.

I don't know what SL is expecting, but I know what expectations he has publicly set.

I guess we’ll soon find out! I’ve got a good feeling about some of the business we’ve done but it’s such an incredibly competitive league. 

[JamesBCFC]

28 minutes ago, lenred said:

That’s a very big call James. Hope you are right!  Unfortunately I think we are going to struggle this season and will end up just outside the relegation zone.  We just don’t seem to do ‘mid-table mediocrity’ as a club and I can’t see us challenging up the top this season given the quality in the league.  Will be very very happy to be proven wrong of course and see the side gel and for us to fly.  As ever I’m sure it won’t be a dull season whatever happens. 

I would also add that anyone suggesting automatic promotion is also off their tits on something.

I know we don't really do 'dull' seasons as it were (must be nearly 10 years since we either weren't fighting relegation or for promotion), but I suspect that we will have a 'dull' season (at least by our standards).

I think we have made some very shrewd transfer dealings this summer, and while Flint and Reid going are setbacks, I don't think they are as huge as some people make out.

I believe Webster has the potential to become a better player at this level than Flint, even if that isn't necessarily this season, and that someone like Eisa could fill the Reid shaped hole. While Bobby had a fantastic season, not many of his goals were ones that only he could score. I believe that were Eisa, or Weimann to be in the same position as Bobby, then they would have scored most of the chances. The main question is whether they are able to read the game as well as him to get into those positions to start with, which is very difficult to speculate on.

I think we will be upper midtable, maybe top 10, but not quite challenging for the playoffs.

[REDOXO]

4 hours ago, RoystonFoote'snephew said:

Although I have Bristolian family, as I’m not from there myself I have not inherited the terminal pessimism that many from the city seem to possess. Top 10. Keep the faith. 

Yep. Me too!

I would be happy with competive and see some of the youngsters do well. 

Ill take anything better than last season and have fingers crossed for a top six finish. Another cup run would be nice!

[JamesBCFC]

4 hours ago, RoystonFoote'snephew said:

Although I have Bristolian family, as I’m not from there myself I have not inherited the terminal pessimism that many from the city seem to possess. Top 10. Keep the faith. 

I'm the opposite but with the same result.

First of my family to be born in Bristol, so haven't inherited the 'negativity gene'.

[Grey Fox]

2 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Think Villa will need to sell quite big to buy, certainly anyone substantial personally.

Wouldn't disagree with your assessment though- unsure Norwich will be in relegation, more likely midtable nothingness I think.Unsure about Brentford being worse either! They played us off the park both games last year.

Brentford are selling their best players (again). You can not keep doing that and expect to succed. As to Villa, new foreign owners with plenty of dosh, however the expectations of the owners and the fans might weigh heavy on the manager ( new) and the players.