chinapig Posted August 11, 2018 Report Share Posted August 11, 2018 1 minute ago, Bicester Red said: Yes he has I was going to go to the league cup game Plymouth But not now He said he will not put top players in for that game I don't want to watch the reserves lose The 'reserves' won at Watford last season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparkz 76 Posted August 11, 2018 Report Share Posted August 11, 2018 We all know LJ problem is a loosing streak each season or massive loss in form. That can’t happen this year otherwise this will be his last season. I hope the guy brings us success and progression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cidered abroad Posted August 11, 2018 Report Share Posted August 11, 2018 10 minutes ago, Sparkz 76 said: We all know LJ problem is a loosing streak each season or massive loss in form. That can’t happen this year otherwise this will be his last season. I hope the guy brings us success and progression. So do I. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRISTOL86 Posted August 11, 2018 Report Share Posted August 11, 2018 27 minutes ago, Sparkz 76 said: We all know LJ problem is a loosing streak each season or massive loss in form. That can’t happen this year otherwise this will be his last season. I hope the guy brings us success and progression. Agreed. Said on another thread that he won’t survive another boom to bust season. I’d take 12th all day long, and consider it progress, if it’s a steady, consistent showing throughout the season rather than 12th, which Iwould see as a failure if were top at Christmas and then have 4 months of dirge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bar BS3 Posted August 11, 2018 Report Share Posted August 11, 2018 2 hours ago, BobBobSuperBob said: Who’s asking for ‘uninterrupted success’ ? As for the 5 yr apprenticeship, the successful managers I recal have not needed 5 years to bed in to management As for inexperience Sean’s Dyche took Watford to 11th in his first season in management and Burnley to to their best ever start to a season in their history ,( and promotion ) in his second Absolutely. Sean Dyche is a great example. How many more are there though..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Londoner Posted August 11, 2018 Report Share Posted August 11, 2018 19 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said: Agreed. Said on another thread that he won’t survive another boom to bust season. I’d take 12th all day long, and consider it progress, if it’s a steady, consistent showing throughout the season rather than 12th, which Iwould see as a failure if were top at Christmas and then have 4 months of dirge. A steady consistent showing resulting in a 12th finish isn't progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeAman08 Posted August 11, 2018 Report Share Posted August 11, 2018 1 hour ago, BobBobSuperBob said: Walsh ? No Pack ? Blimey Not on a bit of evidence I’ve seen so far Joe And he won’t play 4-3-3 Big fan of Walsh. Think talent wise he is our best central midfielder just needs the playing time and experience. Pack a bit slow for the counter. Basing this on us having loads of possesion and having trouble breaking them down. Don’t think this lineup will happen but for me, our best team to break down a compact defensive side. We have to get over someone like Pack, Smith, Brownhill, O’dowda etc being on the bench in certain matchups. Might be too early in the season to change much but away form was bad last season and think we need to change our ways at time especially away from home Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeAman08 Posted August 11, 2018 Report Share Posted August 11, 2018 22 minutes ago, Londoner said: A steady consistent showing resulting in a 12th finish isn't progress. It is as a) we would not go on a long run with few points b) we lost 3 starters from a good side. Any other teams losing that many would expect a drop off. We aren’t but instead expecting a similar season but without the large up then drop off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Londoner Posted August 11, 2018 Report Share Posted August 11, 2018 17 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said: It is as a) we would not go on a long run with few points b) we lost 3 starters from a good side. Any other teams losing that many would expect a drop off. We aren’t but instead expecting a similar season but without the large up then drop off. Not for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bar BS3 Posted August 11, 2018 Report Share Posted August 11, 2018 3 hours ago, cidered abroad said: Did Lansdown employ apprentices as architects, builders, playing surface specialists and and so on? No. So why an apprentice Head Coach for by far the most important position of a football club? He’s doing pretty well, for an apprentice. Don’t you think..?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bar BS3 Posted August 11, 2018 Report Share Posted August 11, 2018 7 minutes ago, Londoner said: Not for me. What about finishing 10th..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted August 11, 2018 Report Share Posted August 11, 2018 51 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said: Absolutely. Sean Dyche is a great example. How many more are there though..? There’s not many who’ve had no actual success in six years apprenticeship and went on to be successful managers Many of the very best hit the ground running with success Ther s more of a history of managers having a good start but falling away than any slow burner In fact I’m struggling to come up with one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bar BS3 Posted August 11, 2018 Report Share Posted August 11, 2018 2 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said: There’s not many who’ve had no actual success in six years apprenticeship and went on to be successful managers Many of the very best hit the ground running with success Ther s more of a history of managers having a good start but falling away than any slow burner In fact I’m struggling to come up with one Neil Warnock..?! He won his first promotion (from non league) after 6 years of management. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted August 11, 2018 Report Share Posted August 11, 2018 30 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said: Big fan of Walsh. Think talent wise he is our best central midfielder just needs the playing time and experience. Pack a bit slow for the counter. Basing this on us having loads of possesion and having trouble breaking them down. Don’t think this lineup will happen but for me, our best team to break down a compact defensive side. We have to get over someone like Pack, Smith, Brownhill, O’dowda etc being on the bench in certain matchups. Might be too early in the season to change much but away form was bad last season and think we need to change our ways at time especially away from home Might be talented Joe and undoubtedly has ability and I was really enthusiastic about his signing ...... until I watched him I commented at the time he was a bit of a bully big b******x constantly demanding the ball and then giving it away to the increasing exasperation of team mates Had a lot to say in the pitch without justifying it In sure he was used to being the fulcrum in Everton U23s but he needs to up his game and learn if he’s going to do so at Championship level Hea also physically struggling ,if a really good player that’s not an obstacle Walsh has potential but ready for the Championship as a starter Not in what I’ve seen Thought I read somebody saying he looked sharp pre season , and of course we don’t see him in training but he would need to be much improved from last season for me to consider him personally Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted August 11, 2018 Report Share Posted August 11, 2018 6 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said: Neil Warnock..?! He won his first promotion (from non league) after 6 years of management. Not so sure he didn’t get one of his early non league clubs promoted before he took Scarborough into Football League Whether or not Slightly different path learning how to manage and coach as a Sunday League manager and through Non League than experimenting in a Championship post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Londoner Posted August 11, 2018 Report Share Posted August 11, 2018 19 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said: What about finishing 10th..? I do appreciate the need for consistency in performances however I would say removing the bad runs are a basic expectation rather than progress. Finishing 10th would be progress because it is consolidation and an improvement, realisticly a good season for us is around tjere as we do not have the quality to go much higher imo. For what its worth I get the impression the excitement of our games will be reduced this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bar BS3 Posted August 11, 2018 Report Share Posted August 11, 2018 18 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said: There’s not many who’ve had no actual success in six years apprenticeship and went on to be successful managers Many of the very best hit the ground running with success Ther s more of a history of managers having a good start but falling away than any slow burner In fact I’m struggling to come up with one 5 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said: Not so sure he didn’t get one of his early non league clubs promoted before he took Scarborough into Football League Whether or not Slightly different path learning how to manage and coach as a Sunday League manager and through Non League than experimenting in a Championship post Ok. Dean Smith then..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeAman08 Posted August 11, 2018 Report Share Posted August 11, 2018 7 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said: Might be talented Joe and undoubtedly has ability and I was really enthusiastic about his signing ...... until I watched him I commented at the time he was a bit of a bully big b******x constantly demanding the ball and then giving it away to the increasing exasperation of team mates Had a lot to say in the pitch without justifying it In sure he was used to being the fulcrum in Everton U23s but he needs to up his game and learn if he’s going to do so at Championship level Hea also physically struggling ,if a really good player that’s not an obstacle Walsh has potential but ready for the Championship as a starter Not in what I’ve seen Thought I read somebody saying he looked sharp pre season , and of course we don’t see him in training but he would need to be much improved from last season for me to consider him personally Probably me because he did look sharp preseason. For me just needs the experience. Probably a settling in period for any top academy player(he was highly thought of). Go from looking like a star to being average against grown men. I am sure he will come good. Can’t remember which game it was in preseason but looked like Barry Bannan. He still has plenty of mistakes in him but not sure they can be rectified without playing. Keep in mind he has less senior league games than some of our “youth” players like Morrell, McCoulskey, Vyner and Moore. Also younger than all of them. Not sure if he thought he was great or was just youthful confidence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted August 11, 2018 Report Share Posted August 11, 2018 3 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said: Ok. Dean Smith then..? What success has Dean Smith had ? I know he’s a flavour of the month but probably controversial but I’m not convinced he’s anything but ok Would I want him here if LJ walked tomorrow ? Not particularly Personalky I think he is benefitting from their recruitment team rather anything that he’s changed Warburton looked the bees knees there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bar BS3 Posted August 11, 2018 Report Share Posted August 11, 2018 3 minutes ago, Londoner said: I do appreciate the need for consistency in performances however I would say removing the bad runs are a basic expectation rather than progress. Finishing 10th would be progress because it is consolidation and an improvement, realisticly a good season for us is around tjere as we do not have the quality to go much higher imo. For what its worth I get the impression the excitement of our games will be reduced this season. I agree with that. I think it’s harsh to criticise a drop in excitement, whilst demanding that we eradicate losing runs though. To adress that concern, we simply have to play a less open style. I beilieve that anywhere between 10th-14th would be creditable consolidation, with anything higher being encouraging progress and anything lower being a concerning slip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alessandro Posted August 11, 2018 Report Share Posted August 11, 2018 6 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said: Ok. Dean Smith then..? Gareth Southgate - 12 years in management for any notable 'success'. Admittedly a different level, but it's an example of a slower path of development. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bar BS3 Posted August 11, 2018 Report Share Posted August 11, 2018 Just now, BobBobSuperBob said: What success has Dean Smith had ? I know he’s a flavour of the month but probably controversial but I’m not convinced he’s anything but ok Would I want him here if LJ walked tomorrow ? Not particularly Personalky I think he is benefitting from their recruitment team rather anything that he’s changed Warburton looked the bees knees there That’s my whole point. He’s had no success previously, but doing well in the Championship. Ala LJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted August 11, 2018 Report Share Posted August 11, 2018 3 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said: Probably me because he did look sharp preseason. For me just needs the experience. Probably a settling in period for any top academy player(he was highly thought of). Go from looking like a star to being average against grown men. I am sure he will come good. Can’t remember which game it was in preseason but looked like Barry Bannan. He still has plenty of mistakes in him but not sure they can be rectified without playing. Keep in mind he has less senior league games than some of our “youth” players like Morrell, McCoulskey, Vyner and Moore. Also younger than all of them. Not sure if he thought he was great or was just youthful confidence He has undoubted ability passing wise at least Joe I know it sounds strange coming from a Premier League outfit but he needs to learn how to play First team football at 3 on a Saturday Have to say I was concerned how he’d go down in the squad but Tbf according to Michelle Owen she said he’d fitted in well which is a good start Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeAman08 Posted August 11, 2018 Report Share Posted August 11, 2018 4 minutes ago, Londoner said: I do appreciate the need for consistency in performances however I would say removing the bad runs are a basic expectation rather than progress. Finishing 10th would be progress because it is consolidation and an improvement, realisticly a good season for us is around tjere as we do not have the quality to go much higher imo. For what its worth I get the impression the excitement of our games will be reduced this season. It would be basic expectation if it hadn’t happened every season since we have been promoted. Not saying it would be massive progress but when progress in the table is unlikely to go up you have to look at other aspects. Mind you this is still things that need to be proven. It is a very basic thing but imagine if we had that consistency. Last season would have been very different. In addition, for me, I’d like to see the younger players like Walsh, Moore and Kelly get more minutes. Would like to see Brownhill, Eliasson and O’Dowda take the next step and become top half championship players. Also would like to see from LJ the ability to change a game. Whether that be take the sting out of a game where we are being battered(like Brentford at home) or see out leads better like Sunderland. If a few of those things happen and we still get to 62 points plus it will definitely be progress even if not drastic. Consolidating a bit this season after such losses has to be expected Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Londoner Posted August 11, 2018 Report Share Posted August 11, 2018 4 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said: That’s my whole point. He’s had no success previously, but doing well in the Championship. Ala LJ. Rate Dean Smith far higher than LJ working wonders at Brentford 3 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said: It would be basic expectation if it hadn’t happened every season since we have been promoted. Not saying it would be massive progress but when progress in the table is unlikely to go up you have to look at other aspects. Mind you this is still things that need to be proven. It is a very basic thing but imagine if we had that consistency. Last season would have been very different. In addition, for me, I’d like to see the younger players like Walsh, Moore and Kelly get more minutes. Would like to see Brownhill, Eliasson and O’Dowda take the next step and become top half championship players. Also would like to see from LJ the ability to change a game. Whether that be take the sting out of a game where we are being battered(like Brentford at home) or see out leads better like Sunderland. If a few of those things happen and we still get to 62 points plus it will definitely be progress even if not drastic. Consolidating a bit this season after such losses has to be expected Walsh and Taylor clearly made little to no impression thus far. Kelly more likely to get consistent minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS4 on Tour... Posted August 11, 2018 Report Share Posted August 11, 2018 3 hours ago, BobBobSuperBob said: Who’s asking for ‘uninterrupted success’ ? As for the 5 yr apprenticeship, the successful managers I recal have not needed 5 years to bed in to management As for inexperience Sean’s Dyche took Watford to 11th in his first season in management and Burnley to to their best ever start to a season in their history ,( and promotion ) in his second Spot on Bob - and Owen Coyle took Burnley up into the premier league in his first full season as a manager in England... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeAman08 Posted August 11, 2018 Report Share Posted August 11, 2018 1 minute ago, BobBobSuperBob said: He has undoubted ability passing wise at least Joe I know it sounds strange coming from a Premier League outfit but he needs to learn how to play First team football at 3 on a Saturday Have to say I was concerned how he’d go down in the squad but Tbf according to Michelle Owen she said he’d fitted in well which is a good start Agree about needing to put it together to play. Probably starts with cup matches and some sub appearances. He has that passing ability and those neat little turns in traffic to ease pressure. Needs grooming for sure but the talent is there. I am hoping he can put it together Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Londoner Posted August 11, 2018 Report Share Posted August 11, 2018 8 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said: I agree with that. I think it’s harsh to criticise a drop in excitement, whilst demanding that we eradicate losing runs though. To adress that concern, we simply have to play a less open style. I beilieve that anywhere between 10th-14th would be creditable consolidation, with anything higher being encouraging progress and anything lower being a concerning slip. Not criticising it.....tell me a side that plays expansive attacking "we will score more than you" that has got promoted? Rarely happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted August 11, 2018 Report Share Posted August 11, 2018 3 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said: That’s my whole point. He’s had no success previously, but doing well in the Championship. Ala LJ. You miss my point If Brentford do well this season I think it will be Smith riding along with Brentford’s set up and infrastructure not because he gets the top end out of players or is tactically clever etc The best managers make the very best of the bag of tools they’re handed and successful ones (a la Warnock) absolutely do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Londoner Posted August 11, 2018 Report Share Posted August 11, 2018 4 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said: You miss my point If Brentford do well this season I think it will be Smith riding along with Brentford’s set up and infrastructure not because he gets the top end out of players or is tactically clever etc The best managers make the very best of the bag of tools they’re handed and successful ones (a la Warnock) absolutely do This. LJ has yet to achieve this. Warnock, Smith, Clough at Burton (to a lesser extemt) all examples Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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